| Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Vman Q
TOP NOCH Enterprises
21
   |
Posted - 2014.03.11 06:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
do you feel this is occuring in dust? we had a match where somehow we killed this squad that everytime we came up against we would rubberband and all kinds of lag, somehow we kept killing them, it seemed the mass driver was actually working better, like suddenly all 6 shots would catch up at once and someone would get hit with 6 MD rounds in 1 second. they all quit game and suddenly it stops lagging. they were all in the same corp i dont remember which but it was nothing significant.
they were all in MLT fits/ARs, scout snipers |
ads alt
177
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 06:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vman Q wrote:do you feel this is occuring in dust? we had a match where somehow we killed this squad that everytime we came up against we would rubberband and all kinds of lag, somehow we kept killing them, it seemed the mass driver was actually working better, like suddenly all 6 shots would catch up at once and someone would get hit with 6 MD rounds in 1 second. they all quit game and suddenly it stops lagging. they were all in the same corp i dont remember which but it was nothing significant.
they were all in MLT fits/ARs, scout snipers
we once lagged for 1 minutes, god hates lags
Click here for 1.8 release date quote from devs
|
ONE-I-BANDIT
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
44
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 06:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
yup this true and you can find it on youtube. ppl with no skill and afraid of losing their K/D. Big reason I like to run free suits
Wait till they get a load of me
Proto Logi /Big Bad Tanker/ Beginner Heavy HMG
|
huopiang
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 06:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Definitely been envolved a couple of situations where I strongly felt like my opponent was doing it. Only suspicions though can't say for sure |
Michael Arck
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu
Lokun Listamenn
3387
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 06:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
How is it possible to lag switch on Dust?
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
Are you OUKH?
|
ONE-I-BANDIT
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
44
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 06:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
look it up on youtube. Its pretty sad things have come to this. Some one always trying to get ahead by cheating
Wait till they get a load of me
Proto Logi /Big Bad Tanker/ Beginner Heavy HMG
|
Vman Q
TOP NOCH Enterprises
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 06:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
the funny thing was is it wasn't really helping them, we were stomping them still. if this is the case i can only laugh that they wasted time lag switching and still get owned. i'm hoping that dust is less lag switching friendly, because noob haxor doesn't want to spend time investing in a game like this maybe he will move on to a game where lag switching works better? |
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
7312
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 06:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vman Q wrote:the funny thing was is it wasn't really helping them, we were stomping them still. if this is the case i can only laugh that they wasted time lag switching and still get owned. i'm hoping that dust is less lag switching friendly, because noob haxor doesn't want to spend time investing in a game like this maybe he will move on to a game where lag switching works better?
It's highly possible that the lag switch, when used on Dust, is very detrimental to the user. It has something to do with the nature of CCP's server.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
|
General John Ripper
19250
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 06:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
NAV HV is a lag switcher. He confessed to it.
My like count = respec petition
Sign it to let CCP know we are serious.
|
Vman Q
TOP NOCH Enterprises
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 06:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Vman Q wrote:the funny thing was is it wasn't really helping them, we were stomping them still. if this is the case i can only laugh that they wasted time lag switching and still get owned. i'm hoping that dust is less lag switching friendly, because noob haxor doesn't want to spend time investing in a game like this maybe he will move on to a game where lag switching works better? It's highly possible that the lag switch, when used on Dust, is very detrimental to the user. It has something to do with the nature of CCP's server.
this is the feeling i had because all it was doing was making all weapons spool up and then everything got released at once, there's and ours included, since we were running adv when the time came for the server to catch up all the damage was in our favor, and our health would suddenly be like 20% and they would be dead. |
|
|
Sgt Buttscratch
KILL-EM-QUICK
1967
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 06:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
It is happening few weeks back my match froze, we went from 4 points blue 1 point red to all points red, all while we had frame rates of 0.1
I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas
Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
|
Sam Tektzby
Better Hide R Die
328
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 06:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
I tried and i not find any on YT.
Actually till that DDoS atack on weekend there was big lag issue, but it fine.
Honestly i thing what you experienced is not lagswitch, but lag only.
Ther is some issues with moded controlers, but i ever found something like lagswitch here.
Support - Tactician/Support
Deteis - Orator
BHD since MAG
|
Patrick57
5983
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 06:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
I don't think that people lag switch. It's too much trouble to go through for a video game IMO.
I think I'm a forum warrior level 5 :D
|
jerrmy12 kahoalii
Pradox XVI
Proficiency V.
461
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 06:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:I don't think that people lag switch. It's too much trouble to go through for a video game IMO.
Yet people did it in cod
I triee it too, ez mode
Closed beta vet
Logi,
Heavy,
Python,
Scout.
|
Vman Q
TOP NOCH Enterprises
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 06:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
it's rampant in GTAO |
ONE-I-BANDIT
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
45
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 06:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
General John Ripper wrote:NAV HV is a lag switcher. He confessed to it.
Its because hes Asian huh lol 
Wait till they get a load of me
Proto Logi /Big Bad Tanker/ Beginner Heavy HMG
|
Michael Arck
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu
Lokun Listamenn
3387
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 06:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
Just imagine, if you're in a pub match and this happening...you leave the game. Ouila!
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
Are you OUKH?
|
Hecarim Van Hohen
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
603
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 07:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
Lag switching in Dust is like lag switching in EVE online
BANGO SKANK WAS HERE
1.7 best match (HMG): 40/9/9 (K/A/D)
|
Vman Q
TOP NOCH Enterprises
22
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 08:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:Lag switching in Dust is like lag switching in EVE online
what happens when you lag switch in EVE? |
General John Ripper
19259
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 08:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
ONE-I-BANDIT wrote:General John Ripper wrote:NAV HV is a lag switcher. He confessed to it. Its because hes Asian huh lol
asian/lagswitcher same thing.... Just try playing nyain san. You will see what I mean.
My like count = respec petition
Sign it to let CCP know we are serious.
|
|
|
ONE-I-BANDIT
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
51
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 08:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
Been there did that too many times
Proto Logi/Big Bad Tanker/Beginner Heavy
Wait till they get an Load of Me
|
Hecarim Van Hohen
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
603
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 08:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Vman Q wrote:Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:Lag switching in Dust is like lag switching in EVE online what happens when you lag switch in EVE?
User suffers from lag while everyone else carries on with their life's like nothing happened
BANGO SKANK WAS HERE
1.7 best match (HMG): 40/9/9 (K/A/D)
|
Sam Tektzby
Better Hide R Die
333
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 08:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
Honestly, if i see something fishy in gamer i try my best to make pain.
But otherwise i dont care too much, yes in that while iam angry (sometimes furious) but hell, iam in game and i play it fair.
If someone needs to cheat and i mean real cheating (moded controlers etc.) its on his honour.
Kegare will be on him, not on me.
Support - Tactician/Support
Deteis - Orator
BHD since MAG
|
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4536
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 09:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
Most games use client-side hit detection. This means that when you line up and shoot someone, what YOU see is treated as valid. That's why in a lot of games, lag results in you taking hits AFTER you run past a gap rather than the damage hitting you while you're exposed. The damage doesn't get applied at your end until after you've made it to cover. You never see it happen that way with your own shots though, because your shots appear to hit the target and they die while still in your line of sight.
Lag switches rely on this effect, allowing you to partially desync from the host (or server) and because hit detection is handled client side, you move around while everyone sees you staying in one place (or doesn't see you if you're placed well). You get to freely more around and shoot people in the head for the few seconds it takes to resync, invisible and effectively invulnerable. If someone found your hiding place, they could shoot you, but you wouldn't take damage until you resync.
DUST uses server-side hit detection, so when you hit the lag switch, you get locked in place. You run around, shoot, do whatever, but the server doesn't see it, so it isn't registered. When you resync, you get rewound to the last place the server saw you, and ignores anything you did while out of sync.
When you have legitimate lag in DUST, server side tracking is the reason why YOU sometimes rubber band like other players seem to in other games. It's also why you get the blue flash - your shots miss the target because you're shooting where YOU see the enemy instead of where the SERVER thinks they are. The blue shield flash is managed client side so when you shoot, you can get immediate feedback, but it doesn't guarantee that the hit will actually register, that doesn't occur until the red hit marker appears, usually a few milliseconds later. |
GLOBAL RAGE
Consolidated Dust
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 14:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:Vman Q wrote:Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:Lag switching in Dust is like lag switching in EVE online what happens when you lag switch in EVE? User suffers from lag while everyone else carries on with their life's like nothing happened
Actually EVE is a true TCP/IP game, and DUST utilizes UDP over TCP/IP so there is a big difference in how time stamps are handled in FPS.
I do not think that a simple orange/white orange switch is being used-I think they are using PC's with dual NICs and running a UDP flood on the transmit side.
It would look like a DDOS attack- a simple syn flood.
CCP your net code is too permissive in allowing people with bad ISP connections and your desire to have a global community-both are laudable and commendable, but you need to protect your baby (DUST514)
I love your game, I believe you are on the right track and I am supporting you financially-please feel free to look at my families DUST purchases. With this support in mind I must ask you to protect my investment in you and DUST 514.
You need to segment your regions first and then tighten up your net code. I know some of the "amazing" players will have to fix their internet situation and not be so "amazing" and the true hack/laggers will get filtered as well. I know this is a lot of work and expensive and we can manage for now, but you NEED to get it done, ready and tested before your PS4 migration.
The free riders are not helping the situation and they certainly are not here to support your baby as it grows up! They are trying to suffocate it in the crib.
My FPS friends, and I am 50yrs old so I have a lot, that have tried DUST will not play it because of the laggers, and when you combine the Proto/WASD stuff they wonder about your insight and ability to get this right.
My FPS experience started on "broken ring" IPX networks. ;-) |
Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
1673
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 14:21:00 -
[26] - Quote
Lag switching doesn't help you in DUST. /facepalm
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
|
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1248
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 14:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
ask yourself this, if it was so easy to lag switch dust, and so benificial.
then why would people of had to rely on the "lag bomb" equipment glitch to achieve the same effect? and why is it that the problems have largly vanished now that particular lag inducing problem is fixed?
the current DDOS attacks are the result of people attempting to build a lag switch that works, and their attempts have so far been unsuccessful. meaning anyone whos every adamanly stated that someone else has lag switched this game is not only wrong, but has no idea what a lag switch is and how it works. |
GLOBAL RAGE
Consolidated Dust
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 14:39:00 -
[28] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Lag switching doesn't help you in DUST. /facepalm
Was this aimed at my post? |
Sam Tektzby
Better Hide R Die
347
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 14:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
I told that before, i dot thing lagswitching is here.
It will be lagging only for sure.
Support - Tactician/Support
Deteis - Orator
BHD since MAG
|
Altina McAlterson
Pure Innocence.
EoN.
912
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 14:42:00 -
[30] - Quote
GLOBAL RAGE wrote:Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:Vman Q wrote:Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:Lag switching in Dust is like lag switching in EVE online what happens when you lag switch in EVE? User suffers from lag while everyone else carries on with their life's like nothing happened Actually EVE is a true TCP/IP game, and DUST utilizes UDP over TCP/IP so there is a big difference in how time stamps are handled in FPS. I do not think that a simple orange/white orange switch is being used-I think they are using PC's with dual NICs and running a UDP flood on the transmit side. It would look like a DDOS attack- a simple syn flood. CCP your net code is too permissive in allowing people with bad ISP connections and your desire to have a global community-both are laudable and commendable, but you need to protect your baby (DUST514) I love your game, I believe you are on the right track and I am supporting you financially-please feel free to look at my families DUST purchases. With this support in mind I must ask you to protect my investment in you and DUST 514. You need to segment your regions first and then tighten up your net code. I know some of the "amazing" players will have to fix their internet situation and not be so "amazing" and the true hack/laggers will get filtered as well. I know this is a lot of work and expensive and we can manage for now, but you NEED to get it done, ready and tested before your PS4 migration. The free riders are not helping the situation and they certainly are not here to support your baby as it grows up! They are trying to suffocate it in the crib. My FPS friends, and I am 50yrs old so I have a lot, that have tried DUST will not play it because of the laggers, and when you combine the Proto/WASD stuff they wonder about your insight and ability to get this right. My FPS experience started on "broken ring" IPX networks. ;-)
I see you used a lot of abbreviations and it does sound like you know what you are talking about so perhaps you could explain exactly how someone "lag switches" in DUST? People keep talking about it like it is a fact but no one has ever actually gotten around to telling me how it works in this game.
And to everyone else: I fear that "lag switch" is one of those things that people keep saying without understanding it. Just because they are rubberbanding around does not mean they are "lag switching". Unless you think they can access the server (or install malicious software onto every other player in the match's PS3) allowing them to desync everyone but themselves, run around shooting the frozen players, then resync so the damage registers and everyone dies. Because that is what a "lag switch" is. Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm sure there are exploits people have figured out that will cause massive lag but they're going to cause it for everyone.
The thing I keep pointing out over and over again is that it's "so suspicious" that as soon as you see them/start shooting/ etc it lags out and they escape. Even though seeing them/starting to shoot/etc mean increased load on the server and could compound issues in the game or generate new ones.
I understand that it's all assumptions and guesswork but what I hear is: "When I wasn't doing anything it was fine and then as soon as I started doing something it messed up so they're obviously lag switching/hacking!" I'll bet on either issues with the server itself or the game's code or at the very worst someone simply exploiting a bad internet connection (which is not a "lag switch" because there isn't any switching) before I start looking for Zebras in Central Park.
Running a blaster tank in ambush is like bringing Anthrax to a pillow fight.
|
|
|
GLOBAL RAGE
Consolidated Dust
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 14:45:00 -
[31] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:ask yourself this, if it was so easy to lag switch dust, and so benificial.
then why would people of had to rely on the "lag bomb" equipment glitch to achieve the same effect? and why is it that the problems have largly vanished now that particular lag inducing problem is fixed?
the current DDOS attacks are the result of people attempting to build a lag switch that works, and their attempts have so far been unsuccessful. meaning anyone whos every adamanly stated that someone else has lag switched this game is not only wrong, but has no idea what a lag switch is and how it works.
put a PC in front of your ps3, and is not so hard, routers where once software based. 500-700 miliseconds is easy.
|
GLOBAL RAGE
Consolidated Dust
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 14:51:00 -
[32] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote:Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:Vman Q wrote:Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:Lag switching in Dust is like lag switching in EVE online what happens when you lag switch in EVE? User suffers from lag while everyone else carries on with their life's like nothing happened Actually EVE is a true TCP/IP game, and DUST utilizes UDP over TCP/IP so there is a big difference in how time stamps are handled in FPS. I do not think that a simple orange/white orange switch is being used-I think they are using PC's with dual NICs and running a UDP flood on the transmit side. It would look like a DDOS attack- a simple syn flood. CCP your net code is too permissive in allowing people with bad ISP connections and your desire to have a global community-both are laudable and commendable, but you need to protect your baby (DUST514) I love your game, I believe you are on the right track and I am supporting you financially-please feel free to look at my families DUST purchases. With this support in mind I must ask you to protect my investment in you and DUST 514. You need to segment your regions first and then tighten up your net code. I know some of the "amazing" players will have to fix their internet situation and not be so "amazing" and the true hack/laggers will get filtered as well. I know this is a lot of work and expensive and we can manage for now, but you NEED to get it done, ready and tested before your PS4 migration. The free riders are not helping the situation and they certainly are not here to support your baby as it grows up! They are trying to suffocate it in the crib. My FPS friends, and I am 50yrs old so I have a lot, that have tried DUST will not play it because of the laggers, and when you combine the Proto/WASD stuff they wonder about your insight and ability to get this right. My FPS experience started on "broken ring" IPX networks. ;-) I see you used a lot of abbreviations and it does sound like you know what you are talking about so perhaps you could explain exactly how someone "lag switches" in DUST? People keep talking about it like it is a fact but no one has ever actually gotten around to telling me how it works in this game. And to everyone else: I fear that "lag switch" is one of those things that people keep saying without understanding it. Just because they are rubberbanding around does not mean they are "lag switching". Unless you think they can access the server (or install malicious software onto every other player in the match's PS3) allowing them to desync everyone but themselves, run around shooting the frozen players, then resync so the damage registers and everyone dies. Because that is what a "lag switch" is. Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong. I'm sure there are exploits people have figured out that will cause massive lag but they're going to cause it for everyone. The thing I keep pointing out over and over again is that it's "so suspicious" that as soon as you see them/start shooting/ etc it lags out and they escape. Even though seeing them/starting to shoot/etc mean increased load on the server and could compound issues in the game or generate new ones. I understand that it's all assumptions and guesswork but what I hear is: "When I wasn't doing anything it was fine and then as soon as I started doing something it messed up so they're obviously lag switching/hacking!" I'll bet on either issues with the server itself or the game's code or at the very worst someone simply exploiting a bad internet connection (which is not a "lag switch" because there isn't any switching) before I start looking for Zebras in Central Park.
I started on Wellfleet and Synoptics gear with Motorola software routers, so yeah i have the grey hair to prove it, and i used acronyms so that only the enlightened would understand-knowledge disclosed in this instance is not prudent.
|
Hecarim Van Hohen
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
610
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 15:00:00 -
[33] - Quote
Knowledge easily attained by a simple google search? Not saying that I don't believe that you have expertise on the subject at hand. I have a question though, did you read Garret Blacknova's take on the topic at hand?
These topics come and go and I'm yet to be convinced that lag switching is actually possible in Dust 514
EDIT Failure on quoting
BANGO SKANK WAS HERE
1.7 best match (HMG): 40/9/9 (K/A/D)
|
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1248
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 15:07:00 -
[34] - Quote
GLOBAL RAGE wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:ask yourself this, if it was so easy to lag switch dust, and so benificial.
then why would people of had to rely on the "lag bomb" equipment glitch to achieve the same effect? and why is it that the problems have largly vanished now that particular lag inducing problem is fixed?
the current DDOS attacks are the result of people attempting to build a lag switch that works, and their attempts have so far been unsuccessful. meaning anyone whos every adamanly stated that someone else has lag switched this game is not only wrong, but has no idea what a lag switch is and how it works. put a PC in front of your ps3, and is not so hard, routers where once software based. 500-700 miliseconds is easy.
oh yah its REALLY easy to lag YOURSELF out 500-700miliseconds behind everyone else giving you a massive disadvantage.
doing it the other way around is whats not possable ATM |
GLOBAL RAGE
Consolidated Dust
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 15:12:00 -
[35] - Quote
Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:Knowledge easily attained by a simple google search? Not saying that I don't believe that you have expertise on the subject at hand. I have a question though, did you read Garret Blacknova's take on the topic at hand? These topics come and go and I'm yet to be convinced that lag switching is actually possible in Dust 514 EDIT Failure on quoting
i'll try to find it.
MCSE/CCNE/CCNA/CCNP/CNE/NCSS |
Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1205
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 15:22:00 -
[36] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:ask yourself this, if it was so easy to lag switch dust, and so benificial.
then why would people of had to rely on the "lag bomb" equipment glitch to achieve the same effect? and why is it that the problems have largly vanished now that particular lag inducing problem is fixed?
the current DDOS attacks are the result of people attempting to build a lag switch that works, and their attempts have so far been unsuccessful. meaning anyone whos every adamanly stated that someone else has lag switched this game is not only wrong, but has no idea what a lag switch is and how it works. put a PC in front of your ps3, and is not so hard, routers where once software based. 500-700 miliseconds is easy. oh yah its REALLY easy to lag YOURSELF out 500-700miliseconds behind everyone else giving you a massive disadvantage. doing it the other way around is whats not possable ATM this is illustrated by the need to use the equipment lagbomd and the current DDOS issues we are having as people now dont have said lag bomb and are searching for wasy to much up the network in their favor to compensate. the DDOS dust is currently under is the result of people trying to find a way to lag switch, meaning they currently do NOT have a way to lag switch :P There's no indication that the DDoS was anything but an act of heckling.
Besides that, yeah. I don't see what lag switching in a dedicated server architecture that doesn't trust the client could possibly accomplish, other than detriment your own gameplay.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
|
deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
485
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 15:26:00 -
[37] - Quote
i believe that the way they set it up hit detection is server side meaning lag doesn't hurt your enemies aim
and as for you rubber banding that shouldnt have to do with them
Proud Christian
Free stuff for the next account you make:)
|
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1248
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 15:31:00 -
[38] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:ask yourself this, if it was so easy to lag switch dust, and so benificial.
then why would people of had to rely on the "lag bomb" equipment glitch to achieve the same effect? and why is it that the problems have largly vanished now that particular lag inducing problem is fixed?
the current DDOS attacks are the result of people attempting to build a lag switch that works, and their attempts have so far been unsuccessful. meaning anyone whos every adamanly stated that someone else has lag switched this game is not only wrong, but has no idea what a lag switch is and how it works. put a PC in front of your ps3, and is not so hard, routers where once software based. 500-700 miliseconds is easy. oh yah its REALLY easy to lag YOURSELF out 500-700miliseconds behind everyone else giving you a massive disadvantage. doing it the other way around is whats not possable ATM this is illustrated by the need to use the equipment lagbomd and the current DDOS issues we are having as people now dont have said lag bomb and are searching for wasy to much up the network in their favor to compensate. the DDOS dust is currently under is the result of people trying to find a way to lag switch, meaning they currently do NOT have a way to lag switch :P There's no indication that the DDoS was anything but an act of heckling. Besides that, yeah. I don't see what lag switching in a dedicated server architecture that doesn't trust the client could possibly accomplish, other than detriment your own gameplay.
that was a seperate occasion.
the current DDOS activity seems more like a probe then an actual attack, its effecting overall performance but that doesnt apear to be its actual goal.
not only that but nobody has taken responsability for it wich is unusuall since taking responsability for it is usually the only real goal of DDOS attacks.
alot of this is educated guessing on my part and for all i know im way off the mark. but unless someone takes responsability for the current DDOS activity the most likely cause is someone trying to probe the network for exploitable weaknesses they can abuse, and in our case that may be either an attempt to really mess stuff up or for the purposes of creating a new form of lag switch now that the equipment lag bomb can no longer be used.
theres only so many possabilitys
- traditional DDOS (unlikely unless someone takes responsability)
- Netwwork probing for weakness for the purpose of large scale attack and damage.
- Network probing for weakness for the purpose of favorable lag.
so the lag switch theory isnt the only possable reason but it is my current favorite as the other possable reasons would involve groups that would be taking credit for the actions and currently nobody is. |
GLOBAL RAGE
Consolidated Dust
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 15:32:00 -
[39] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:ask yourself this, if it was so easy to lag switch dust, and so benificial.
then why would people of had to rely on the "lag bomb" equipment glitch to achieve the same effect? and why is it that the problems have largly vanished now that particular lag inducing problem is fixed?
the current DDOS attacks are the result of people attempting to build a lag switch that works, and their attempts have so far been unsuccessful. meaning anyone whos every adamanly stated that someone else has lag switched this game is not only wrong, but has no idea what a lag switch is and how it works. put a PC in front of your ps3, and is not so hard, routers where once software based. 500-700 miliseconds is easy. oh yah its REALLY easy to lag YOURSELF out 500-700miliseconds behind everyone else giving you a massive disadvantage. doing it the other way around is whats not possable ATM this is illustrated by the need to use the equipment lagbomd and the current DDOS issues we are having as people now dont have said lag bomb and are searching for wasy to much up the network in their favor to compensate. the DDOS dust is currently under is the result of people trying to find a way to lag switch, meaning they currently do NOT have a way to lag switch :P
Not on the recieving side but on the transmit side-I would see you real time you would see me 500 ms in the past-just like ****** DSL connections just man made-this is simple stuff. |
Everything Dies
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
584
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 15:37:00 -
[40] - Quote
General John Ripper wrote:ONE-I-BANDIT wrote:General John Ripper wrote:NAV HV is a lag switcher. He confessed to it. Its because hes Asian huh lol asian/lagswitcher same thing.... Just try playing nyain san. You will see what I mean.
Whew...I was afraid we were going to make it past the first page without the name Nyain San being mentioned.
Admit it, people--that was first thing you thought of when reading the thread title!
"Trust and you'll be trusted," says the liar to the fool.
|
|
|
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1249
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 15:39:00 -
[41] - Quote
GLOBAL RAGE wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:ask yourself this, if it was so easy to lag switch dust, and so benificial.
then why would people of had to rely on the "lag bomb" equipment glitch to achieve the same effect? and why is it that the problems have largly vanished now that particular lag inducing problem is fixed?
the current DDOS attacks are the result of people attempting to build a lag switch that works, and their attempts have so far been unsuccessful. meaning anyone whos every adamanly stated that someone else has lag switched this game is not only wrong, but has no idea what a lag switch is and how it works. put a PC in front of your ps3, and is not so hard, routers where once software based. 500-700 miliseconds is easy. oh yah its REALLY easy to lag YOURSELF out 500-700miliseconds behind everyone else giving you a massive disadvantage. doing it the other way around is whats not possable ATM this is illustrated by the need to use the equipment lagbomd and the current DDOS issues we are having as people now dont have said lag bomb and are searching for wasy to much up the network in their favor to compensate. the DDOS dust is currently under is the result of people trying to find a way to lag switch, meaning they currently do NOT have a way to lag switch :P Not on the recieving side but on the transmit side-I would see you real time you would see me 500 ms in the past-just like ****** DSL connections just man made-this is simple stuff.
except **** DSL connections in this game dont get any advantage as they are viewing the past not the present.
you are correct in everything except one thing. the way the servers are set up in this game you can only lag yourself out and you currently cannot lag everyone else out while maintaining your own connection.
so right now all lag switches do is make you see the past while everyone else gets to see the present... |
Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1205
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 15:41:00 -
[42] - Quote
GLOBAL RAGE wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:ask yourself this, if it was so easy to lag switch dust, and so benificial.
then why would people of had to rely on the "lag bomb" equipment glitch to achieve the same effect? and why is it that the problems have largly vanished now that particular lag inducing problem is fixed?
the current DDOS attacks are the result of people attempting to build a lag switch that works, and their attempts have so far been unsuccessful. meaning anyone whos every adamanly stated that someone else has lag switched this game is not only wrong, but has no idea what a lag switch is and how it works. put a PC in front of your ps3, and is not so hard, routers where once software based. 500-700 miliseconds is easy. oh yah its REALLY easy to lag YOURSELF out 500-700miliseconds behind everyone else giving you a massive disadvantage. doing it the other way around is whats not possable ATM this is illustrated by the need to use the equipment lagbomd and the current DDOS issues we are having as people now dont have said lag bomb and are searching for wasy to much up the network in their favor to compensate. the DDOS dust is currently under is the result of people trying to find a way to lag switch, meaning they currently do NOT have a way to lag switch :P Not on the recieving side but on the transmit side-I would see you real time you would see me 500 ms in the past-just like ****** DSL connections just man made-this is simple stuff. The server doesn't rely on your data to advance the gamestate. When your outbound data is late by 700ms then the server will just assume no action was taken during that period and you're effectively standing still in the simulation.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
|
GLOBAL RAGE
Consolidated Dust
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 15:42:00 -
[43] - Quote
Everything Dies wrote:General John Ripper wrote:ONE-I-BANDIT wrote:General John Ripper wrote:NAV HV is a lag switcher. He confessed to it. Its because hes Asian huh lol asian/lagswitcher same thing.... Just try playing nyain san. You will see what I mean. Whew...I was afraid we were going to make it past the first page without the name Nyain San being mentioned. Admit it, people--that was first thing you thought of when reading the thread title!
He's not the only one, watch for people who when you shoot disappear and then shoot you from a position 5 or 6 meters away and with ADS precision-you'll notice it alot. |
GLOBAL RAGE
Consolidated Dust
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 15:47:00 -
[44] - Quote
Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:Lag switching in Dust is like lag switching in EVE online
NO! EVE is a TCP/IP game port 26000 and or 3724 are used. Eve online according to the WIKI does not use any UDP ports.
ALL FPS use UDP because FPS is packet time sensitive and EVE is an MMO |
Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1205
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 15:48:00 -
[45] - Quote
GLOBAL RAGE wrote:Everything Dies wrote:General John Ripper wrote:ONE-I-BANDIT wrote:General John Ripper wrote:NAV HV is a lag switcher. He confessed to it. Its because hes Asian huh lol asian/lagswitcher same thing.... Just try playing nyain san. You will see what I mean. Whew...I was afraid we were going to make it past the first page without the name Nyain San being mentioned. Admit it, people--that was first thing you thought of when reading the thread title! He's not the only one, watch for people who when you shoot disappear and then shoot you from a position 5 or 6 meters away and with ADS precision-you'll notice it alot. Nyan San is not a person but an Asian corp. Geographic differences alone mean that both sides will experience increased rubberbanding when one of them is connecting through US/EU.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
7315
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 15:54:00 -
[46] - Quote
As everyone else here before me has pointed out, the server handles the real load. It is also the same server that handles massive fleet battles, millions of transactions every day, as well as using scripts to hunt down and punish Bot users* while backed up by a dedicated security team in CCP Reykjavik.
* - Bot users are players who automate all of their actions in an MMO so they can do things like eat, sleep, take a shower, and do their dishes while the game is handled by a third-party software that does all the work for them non-stop from downtime to downtime. Botting is bannable offense and if you're caught doing RMT on top of botting, you're permanently banned without a warning. CCP's security enforces that rule vigorously without any exceptions.
Now, in the case of Lag Switching in Dust, to successfully lag switch in Dust like how you would in Call of Duty, you will either need to be the host of the server or have the hit detection done client side instead of server side. Either way, that will require manipulating the data in a way that forces the server to either give you control or let your client validate the hit detection instead. That means having to break into the main server which is NOT an easy thing to do. CCP Reykjavik's security is always watching the server around the clock and they are no strangers to hacking attempts and DDoS attacks. They have 11 years experience after all.
If you are caught hacking into their server, I would be more worried about your local authorities knocking on your front door than CCP banning your account as hacking a company server without permission is grounds for any local government to come looking for you. And if you try to do it, CCP will very much likely LITERALLY pull the plug on the server to shut it down for its own protection. After all, that server not only has Eve account information such as your login, but it also has credit card information stored which is why hacking that server is grounds for your government to come after you if they manage to trace you.
Add on top of that the fact that the matches you play on is based on regional battle servers which seem to act as proxies to the main server. That's an extra layer of connection you have to go through to successfully lag switch.
So anyone claiming to be able to lag switch in Dust like they do in CoD is just bullshitting you.
Therefore, the only safe way to lag a match is to utilize lag bombs by spamming nanohives and uplinks (lots of it) in a room.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
|
GLOBAL RAGE
Consolidated Dust
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 15:56:00 -
[47] - Quote
I have a buddy who's "downrange" and connects via satellite and thats an 88,000 mile round trip - that's some ****'ed up **** |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1249
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 15:57:00 -
[48] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:
He's not the only one, watch for people who when you shoot disappear and then shoot you from a position 5 or 6 meters away and with ADS precision-you'll notice it alot.
Nyan San is not a person but an Asian corp. Geographic differences alone mean that both sides will experience increased rubberbanding when one of them is connecting through US/EU.[/quote]
if by asian you mean asian, german and spanish then sure.
their comms chatter is a mix of so many lancuages its not even funny.
nyain isnt JUST asian, its a compilation of every top player that isnt english speaking. |
GLOBAL RAGE
Consolidated Dust
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 16:05:00 -
[49] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:As everyone else here before me has pointed out, the server handles the real load. It is also the same server that handles massive fleet battles, millions of transactions every day, as well as using scripts to hunt down and punish Bot users* while backed up by a dedicated security team in CCP Reykjavik.
* - Bot users are players who automate all of their actions in an MMO so they can do things like eat, sleep, take a shower, and do their dishes while the game is handled by a third-party software that does all the work for them non-stop from downtime to downtime. Botting is bannable offense and if you're caught doing RMT on top of botting, you're permanently banned without a warning. CCP's security enforces that rule vigorously without any exceptions.
Now, in the case of Lag Switching in Dust, to successfully lag switch in Dust like how you would in Call of Duty, you will either need to be the host of the server or have the hit detection done client side instead of server side. Either way, that will require manipulating the data in a way that forces the server to either give you control or let your client validate the hit detection instead. That means having to break into the main server which is NOT an easy thing to do. CCP Reykjavik's security is always watching the server around the clock and they are no strangers to hacking attempts and DDoS attacks. They have 11 years experience after all.
If you are caught hacking into their server, I would be more worried about your local authorities knocking on your front door than CCP banning your account as hacking a company server without permission is grounds for any local government to come looking for you. And if you try to do it, CCP will very much likely LITERALLY pull the plug on the server to shut it down for its own protection. After all, that server not only has Eve account information such as your login, but it also has credit card information stored which is why hacking that server is grounds for your government to come after you if they manage to trace you.
Add on top of that the fact that the matches you play on is based on regional battle servers which seem to act as proxies to the main server. That's an extra layer of connection you have to go through to successfully lag switch.
So anyone claiming to be able to lag switch in Dust like they do in CoD is just bullshitting you.
Therefore, the only safe way to lag a match is to utilize lag bombs by spamming nanohives and uplinks (lots of it) in a room.
I am referring not to hardware switches but taking a PC with 2 nics connecting the PS3 to the pc and then the pc to the internet. In between the two nics you would create a software router or even use "other" security tools to slow or even stop the transmit side of the equation.
Yes, of course there are physical switchers, lag bombers and people with **** internet as well as joing cross region-it's a cesspool of bad routing. |
Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1205
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 16:18:00 -
[50] - Quote
GLOBAL RAGE wrote:I am referring not to hardware switches but taking a PC with 2 nics connecting the PS3 to the pc and then the pc to the internet. In between the two nics you would create a software router or even use "other" security tools to slow or even stop the transmit side of the equation. The method of interruption/delay doesn't matter. When the server doesn't get your input within an unknown but certainly very short threshold (lag compensation) then it will count that as you not doing anything and that's the end of it.
You might very well surpress your outbound data transmission while still reacting to received data on your client, but when your reaction reaches the server half a second late then the enemy shots at your last known position within that half a second will count as hits and you're dead.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
|
|
|
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1250
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 16:22:00 -
[51] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote:I am referring not to hardware switches but taking a PC with 2 nics connecting the PS3 to the pc and then the pc to the internet. In between the two nics you would create a software router or even use "other" security tools to slow or even stop the transmit side of the equation. The method of interruption/delay doesn't matter. When the server doesn't get your input within an unknown but certainly very short threshold (lag compensation) then it will count that as you not doing anything and that's the end of it. You might very well surpress your outbound data transmission while still reacting to received data on your client, but when your reaction reaches the server half a second late then the enemy shots at your last known position within that half a second will count as hits and you're dead.
what people usually concider signs of a lag switching oponent in dust, are actually caused by their own connection failing. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
7315
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 16:23:00 -
[52] - Quote
GLOBAL RAGE wrote:I am referring not to hardware switches but taking a PC with 2 nics connecting the PS3 to the pc and then the pc to the internet. In between the two nics you would create a software router or even use "other" security tools to slow or even stop the transmit side of the equation.
Yes, of course there are physical switchers, lag bombers and people with **** internet as well as joing cross region-it's a cesspool of bad routing.
And as a note: the regional servers are just that regional.
It still won't matter if the server, not the client, is the one handling the hit detection. So you can lag your client, but the server will still see you as just not doing anything or going anywhere even though you are running around shooting people once you enable the lag switch and resync.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
|
GLOBAL RAGE
Consolidated Dust
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 16:23:00 -
[53] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote:I am referring not to hardware switches but taking a PC with 2 nics connecting the PS3 to the pc and then the pc to the internet. In between the two nics you would create a software router or even use "other" security tools to slow or even stop the transmit side of the equation. The method of interruption/delay doesn't matter. When the server doesn't get your input within an unknown but certainly very short threshold (lag compensation) then it will count that as you not doing anything and that's the end of it. You might very well surpress your outbound data transmission while still reacting to received data on your client, but when your reaction reaches the server half a second late then the enemy shots at your last known position within that half a second will count as hits and you're dead.
"very short" lol no CCP's netcode is loose they expected cross region play-hence my friend being an example because he is on via satellite. In a BF of COD lobby shooter that is zero bars and you don't play without bars-lol.
DUST everyone plays witout and UDP time stamp restrictions. Next time someone runs around a corner and insta kills you it's lag. |
GLOBAL RAGE
Consolidated Dust
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 16:26:00 -
[54] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote:I am referring not to hardware switches but taking a PC with 2 nics connecting the PS3 to the pc and then the pc to the internet. In between the two nics you would create a software router or even use "other" security tools to slow or even stop the transmit side of the equation.
Yes, of course there are physical switchers, lag bombers and people with **** internet as well as joing cross region-it's a cesspool of bad routing.
And as a note: the regional servers are just that regional. It still won't matter if the server, not the client, is the one handling the hit detection. So you can lag your client, but the server will still see you as just not doing anything or going anywhere even though you are running around shooting people once you enable the lag switch and resync.
Go rent a BF3 server and after kicking all of the long trip players tell me that the games don't get better. Or unloading a whole clip in someones back and they turn and kill you thats lag, latency or what ever you want to call it, and it is directly associated with UDP. |
Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1205
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 16:26:00 -
[55] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Malkai Inos wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote:I am referring not to hardware switches but taking a PC with 2 nics connecting the PS3 to the pc and then the pc to the internet. In between the two nics you would create a software router or even use "other" security tools to slow or even stop the transmit side of the equation. The method of interruption/delay doesn't matter. When the server doesn't get your input within an unknown but certainly very short threshold (lag compensation) then it will count that as you not doing anything and that's the end of it. You might very well surpress your outbound data transmission while still reacting to received data on your client, but when your reaction reaches the server half a second late then the enemy shots at your last known position within that half a second will count as hits and you're dead. what people usually concider signs of a lag switching oponent in dust, are actually caused by their own connection failing. Exactly, or the server itself struggling of course. That's what my, not entirely accurate, Nyan San statement was supposed to suggest.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
7315
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 16:28:00 -
[56] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Malkai Inos wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote:I am referring not to hardware switches but taking a PC with 2 nics connecting the PS3 to the pc and then the pc to the internet. In between the two nics you would create a software router or even use "other" security tools to slow or even stop the transmit side of the equation. The method of interruption/delay doesn't matter. When the server doesn't get your input within an unknown but certainly very short threshold (lag compensation) then it will count that as you not doing anything and that's the end of it. You might very well surpress your outbound data transmission while still reacting to received data on your client, but when your reaction reaches the server half a second late then the enemy shots at your last known position within that half a second will count as hits and you're dead. what people usually concider signs of a lag switching oponent in dust, are actually caused by their own connection failing.
Mostly, yeah. Some people just have bad internet. Most of the bad internet comes from the fact that tier 2 ISPs like Comcast are intentionally throttling your connection speed. Let's say you are paying Comcast for something like 30mb/s. You then watch Netflix which only uses up to about 10mb/s at the most. You'd think you get great service, right? Wrong. Comcast floods the connection with useless traffic so you're only getting a fraction of what you're paying for.
Here is a video detailing it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37nfG8m0XzQ&list=PL3C63E5853F06F32E&index=14
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
|
Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1205
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 16:29:00 -
[57] - Quote
GLOBAL RAGE wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote:I am referring not to hardware switches but taking a PC with 2 nics connecting the PS3 to the pc and then the pc to the internet. In between the two nics you would create a software router or even use "other" security tools to slow or even stop the transmit side of the equation.
Yes, of course there are physical switchers, lag bombers and people with **** internet as well as joing cross region-it's a cesspool of bad routing.
And as a note: the regional servers are just that regional. It still won't matter if the server, not the client, is the one handling the hit detection. So you can lag your client, but the server will still see you as just not doing anything or going anywhere even though you are running around shooting people once you enable the lag switch and resync. Go rent a BF3 server and after kicking all of the long trip players tell me that the games don't get better. Or unloading a whole clip in someones back and they turn and kill you thats lag, latency or what ever you want to call it, and it is directly associated with UDP. Gosh. No one's denying that lag happens and affects players. This is about the plausability of lag switching (by whatever means) to the benefit of the "switcher" in Dust.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
|
GLOBAL RAGE
Consolidated Dust
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 16:34:00 -
[58] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:Malkai Inos wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote:I am referring not to hardware switches but taking a PC with 2 nics connecting the PS3 to the pc and then the pc to the internet. In between the two nics you would create a software router or even use "other" security tools to slow or even stop the transmit side of the equation. The method of interruption/delay doesn't matter. When the server doesn't get your input within an unknown but certainly very short threshold (lag compensation) then it will count that as you not doing anything and that's the end of it. You might very well surpress your outbound data transmission while still reacting to received data on your client, but when your reaction reaches the server half a second late then the enemy shots at your last known position within that half a second will count as hits and you're dead. what people usually concider signs of a lag switching oponent in dust, are actually caused by their own connection failing. Mostly, yeah. Some people just have bad internet. Most of the bad internet comes from the fact that tier 2 ISPs like Comcast are intentionally throttling your connection speed. Let's say you are paying Comcast for something like 30mb/s. You then watch Netflix which only uses up to about 10mb/s at the most. You'd think you get great service, right? Wrong. Comcast floods the connection with useless traffic so you're only getting a fraction of what you're paying for. Here is a video detailing it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37nfG8m0XzQ&list=PL3C63E5853F06F32E&index=14
WOW, next time your whole DUST fireteam experiences this problem it must be "mass psychosis". As for your Comcast downstream CIR example that is an ass backwards way of looking at FPS lag. |
Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1819
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 16:43:00 -
[59] - Quote
Keep in mind that the battle servers control everything, but they're also scattered around the world. If an ISP that a battle server is running connections through takes a dump all over then your whole team is quite likely to lag out. Odds are the other team is experiencing the same thing unless they're closer to the server than where the problem is.
You can't make this happen to only other players, and I doubt there's much that can be done to fix it aside from noting the time in the neocom and submitting a report about the match. Then CCP can investigate and find out what server was misbehaving and then make changes to try and prevent it from happening again. |
Serimos Haeraven
The Exemplars
Top Men.
700
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 16:46:00 -
[60] - Quote
I've had the same exact issue when I'm in my Assault DS. Occasionally, I'll come across tanks that right once i start landing the first few shots, all of a sudden each missile i shoot after that has a 10 second delay, and i can't hit them at all anymore.
And then when i go away my missiles go back to normal rate of fire. Total switching.
Tankers are being diagnosed with a new disease; Cancer of the Assault Dropship.
Many of them don't survive.
|
|
|
GLOBAL RAGE
Consolidated Dust
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 16:56:00 -
[61] - Quote
Serimos Haeraven wrote:I've had the same exact issue when I'm in my Assault DS. Occasionally, I'll come across tanks that right once i start landing the first few shots, all of a sudden each missile i shoot after that has a 10 second delay, and i can't hit them at all anymore.
And then when i go away my missiles go back to normal rate of fire. Total switching.
YUP!
UDP circa 1982, but that is the only internet protocol available for FPS and the net code is too forgiving, and as I stated earlier it is admirable of CCP to try to give everyone a chance to play, but there is an inherent performance hit when all UDP is treated equally.
It allows people that want to abuse the chance to do just that.
I love DUST I have spent, unashamedly at least $450.00 US since closed beta for my son and I, and I will continue to support CCP.
Must be something in the Lore to justify closing region crossing down, until a game type is designed that can reunite the regions-as some wise man said "God hates Lag" that means GOD loves FPS
Well peace out! Time to go get a root canal--ummmm! |
Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1205
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 17:37:00 -
[62] - Quote
GLOBAL RAGE wrote:Serimos Haeraven wrote:I've had the same exact issue when I'm in my Assault DS. Occasionally, I'll come across tanks that right once i start landing the first few shots, all of a sudden each missile i shoot after that has a 10 second delay, and i can't hit them at all anymore.
And then when i go away my missiles go back to normal rate of fire. Total switching. YUP! UDP circa 1982, but that is the only internet protocol available for FPS and the net code is too forgiving, and as I stated earlier it is admirable of CCP to try to give everyone a chance to play, but there is an inherent performance hit when all UDP is treated equally. It allows people that want to abuse the chance to do just that. I love DUST I have spent, unashamedly at least $450.00 US since closed beta for my son and I, and I will continue to support CCP. Must be something in the Lore to justify closing region crossing down, until a game type is designed that can reunite the regions-as some wise man said "God hates Lag" that means GOD loves FPS Well peace out! Time to go get a root canal--ummmm! There's no reason to believe any kind of abuse took place in this anectote. Can you explain how a player could be able to generate the described behavior without direct control of the server?
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
|
Vman Q
TOP NOCH Enterprises
22
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 19:25:00 -
[63] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:ask yourself this, if it was so easy to lag switch dust, and so benificial.
then why would people of had to rely on the "lag bomb" equipment glitch to achieve the same effect? and why is it that the problems have largly vanished now that particular lag inducing problem is fixed?
the current DDOS attacks are the result of people attempting to build a lag switch that works, and their attempts have so far been unsuccessful. meaning anyone whos every adamanly stated that someone else has lag switched this game is not only wrong, but has no idea what a lag switch is and how it works.
idk maybe because everyone is lame enough to glitch equipment but not lame enought to go out a build a lag switch for dust.
i'm not accusing ppl because i was mad about loosing or something but all the responses have given me more insight and hope that these idiots, and yes they're is a huge community lately of console lag switchers, move on to the next game. if it truly was not lag switch then i apologize but the suspicion was it cleared up as soon as a squad from some mundane corp all left the game. |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1255
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 19:34:00 -
[64] - Quote
Vman Q wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:ask yourself this, if it was so easy to lag switch dust, and so benificial.
then why would people of had to rely on the "lag bomb" equipment glitch to achieve the same effect? and why is it that the problems have largly vanished now that particular lag inducing problem is fixed?
the current DDOS attacks are the result of people attempting to build a lag switch that works, and their attempts have so far been unsuccessful. meaning anyone whos every adamanly stated that someone else has lag switched this game is not only wrong, but has no idea what a lag switch is and how it works. idk maybe because everyone is lame enough to glitch equipment but not lame enought to go out a build a lag switch for dust. i'm not accusing ppl because i was mad about loosing or something but all the responses have given me more insight and hope that these idiots, and yes they're is a huge community lately of console lag switchers, move on to the next game. if it truly was not lag switch then i apologize but the suspicion was it cleared up as soon as a squad from some mundane corp all left the game.
its difficult to tell the difference between a lag switch and just plain ole lag.
the fact that the entire squad left the game makes it clear that they were in fact experiancing more lag then you were to the point of it either disconnecting them or making it simply unplayable :P
meaning it wasnt an intended effect and was hurting them more then it was hurting you.
ive been accused of lag switching on occasion, and every time i have it was the person accusing me who was lagging the hell out of the game and not me.
the current methods of lag switching common in games like these technically work, but cause more lag for those that use it then for those that are on the recieving end.
hence why theres so many vocal individuals who will come in and tell you that you cant lag switch dust, becuase you simply cant (yet) |
Vman Q
TOP NOCH Enterprises
22
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 19:34:00 -
[65] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Malkai Inos wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote:I am referring not to hardware switches but taking a PC with 2 nics connecting the PS3 to the pc and then the pc to the internet. In between the two nics you would create a software router or even use "other" security tools to slow or even stop the transmit side of the equation. The method of interruption/delay doesn't matter. When the server doesn't get your input within an unknown but certainly very short threshold (lag compensation) then it will count that as you not doing anything and that's the end of it. You might very well surpress your outbound data transmission while still reacting to received data on your client, but when your reaction reaches the server half a second late then the enemy shots at your last known position within that half a second will count as hits and you're dead. what people usually concider signs of a lag switching oponent in dust, are actually caused by their own connection failing.
no because my whole squad was lagging not just me
it's very possible the other squad that we were fighting all quit because they thought we were lag switching, it could all be a coincidence that the lag stopped when they quit. |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
739
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 19:36:00 -
[66] - Quote
I think a lot of people are confusing "lag" with "lag switching", and I'd need to see really solid evidence of the latter before dismissing the former, because my understanding is that Dust is not lag-switchable....Leadfoot |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1255
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 19:38:00 -
[67] - Quote
Vman Q wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:Malkai Inos wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote:I am referring not to hardware switches but taking a PC with 2 nics connecting the PS3 to the pc and then the pc to the internet. In between the two nics you would create a software router or even use "other" security tools to slow or even stop the transmit side of the equation. The method of interruption/delay doesn't matter. When the server doesn't get your input within an unknown but certainly very short threshold (lag compensation) then it will count that as you not doing anything and that's the end of it. You might very well surpress your outbound data transmission while still reacting to received data on your client, but when your reaction reaches the server half a second late then the enemy shots at your last known position within that half a second will count as hits and you're dead. what people usually concider signs of a lag switching oponent in dust, are actually caused by their own connection failing. no because my whole squad was lagging not just me it's very possible the other squad that we were fighting all quit because they thought we were lag switching, it could all be a coincidence that the lag stopped when they quit.
the lag stopped when they quit because the game has lag issues, especially when players from different regions try to play together on far away servers :P it causes unbearable lag for nearly everyone.
it wasnt a coincidence, it was buggy net code causing lag for everyone wich is a whole lot different then a lag switch. |
Vman Q
TOP NOCH Enterprises
22
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 19:43:00 -
[68] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:Malkai Inos wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote:I am referring not to hardware switches but taking a PC with 2 nics connecting the PS3 to the pc and then the pc to the internet. In between the two nics you would create a software router or even use "other" security tools to slow or even stop the transmit side of the equation. The method of interruption/delay doesn't matter. When the server doesn't get your input within an unknown but certainly very short threshold (lag compensation) then it will count that as you not doing anything and that's the end of it. You might very well surpress your outbound data transmission while still reacting to received data on your client, but when your reaction reaches the server half a second late then the enemy shots at your last known position within that half a second will count as hits and you're dead. what people usually concider signs of a lag switching oponent in dust, are actually caused by their own connection failing. Mostly, yeah. Some people just have bad internet. Most of the bad internet comes from the fact that tier 2 ISPs like Comcast are intentionally throttling your connection speed. Let's say you are paying Comcast for something like 30mb/s. You then watch Netflix which only uses up to about 10mb/s at the most. You'd think you get great service, right? Wrong. Comcast floods the connection with useless traffic so you're only getting a fraction of what you're paying for. Here is a video detailing it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37nfG8m0XzQ&list=PL3C63E5853F06F32E&index=14
i had a comcast man slip up by basically telling me this on a service call.. it's agreed nationwide that there shady as **** |
Vman Q
TOP NOCH Enterprises
22
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 19:49:00 -
[69] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Vman Q wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:ask yourself this, if it was so easy to lag switch dust, and so benificial.
then why would people of had to rely on the "lag bomb" equipment glitch to achieve the same effect? and why is it that the problems have largly vanished now that particular lag inducing problem is fixed?
the current DDOS attacks are the result of people attempting to build a lag switch that works, and their attempts have so far been unsuccessful. meaning anyone whos every adamanly stated that someone else has lag switched this game is not only wrong, but has no idea what a lag switch is and how it works. idk maybe because everyone is lame enough to glitch equipment but not lame enought to go out a build a lag switch for dust. i'm not accusing ppl because i was mad about loosing or something but all the responses have given me more insight and hope that these idiots, and yes they're is a huge community lately of console lag switchers, move on to the next game. if it truly was not lag switch then i apologize but the suspicion was it cleared up as soon as a squad from some mundane corp all left the game. its difficult to tell the difference between a lag switch and just plain ole lag. the fact that the entire squad left the game makes it clear that they were in fact experiancing more lag then you were to the point of it either disconnecting them or making it simply unplayable :P meaning it wasnt an intended effect and was hurting them more then it was hurting you. ive been accused of lag switching on occasion, and every time i have it was the person accusing me who was lagging the hell out of the game and not me. the current methods of lag switching common in games like these technically work, but cause more lag for those that use it then for those that are on the recieving end.
see this is the part that brings me the most happiness i just can imagine how pathetic their after battle discussion is when they still haven't figured out that lag switching in dust is causing them to fail, probably 5 guys are screaming at one guy for not doing a good job at the lag switch. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
7319
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 20:30:00 -
[70] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:the current methods of lag switching common in games like these technically work, but cause more lag for those that use it then for those that are on the recieving end.
hence why theres so many vocal individuals who will come in and tell you that you cant lag switch dust, becuase you simply cant (yet)
Exactly.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
|
|
|
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1256
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 20:38:00 -
[71] - Quote
Vman Q wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:Vman Q wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:ask yourself this, if it was so easy to lag switch dust, and so benificial.
then why would people of had to rely on the "lag bomb" equipment glitch to achieve the same effect? and why is it that the problems have largly vanished now that particular lag inducing problem is fixed?
the current DDOS attacks are the result of people attempting to build a lag switch that works, and their attempts have so far been unsuccessful. meaning anyone whos every adamanly stated that someone else has lag switched this game is not only wrong, but has no idea what a lag switch is and how it works. idk maybe because everyone is lame enough to glitch equipment but not lame enought to go out a build a lag switch for dust. i'm not accusing ppl because i was mad about loosing or something but all the responses have given me more insight and hope that these idiots, and yes they're is a huge community lately of console lag switchers, move on to the next game. if it truly was not lag switch then i apologize but the suspicion was it cleared up as soon as a squad from some mundane corp all left the game. its difficult to tell the difference between a lag switch and just plain ole lag. the fact that the entire squad left the game makes it clear that they were in fact experiancing more lag then you were to the point of it either disconnecting them or making it simply unplayable :P meaning it wasnt an intended effect and was hurting them more then it was hurting you. ive been accused of lag switching on occasion, and every time i have it was the person accusing me who was lagging the hell out of the game and not me. the current methods of lag switching common in games like these technically work, but cause more lag for those that use it then for those that are on the recieving end. see this is the part that brings me the most happiness i just can imagine how pathetic their after battle discussion is when they still haven't figured out that lag switching in dust is causing them to fail, probably 5 guys are screaming at one guy for not doing a good job at the lag switch.
except its not a lag switch, its poor internet combined with long distance connectivity and badly written net code.
nobody is using a lag switch
you still seem to thing a lag switch is involved, it isnt, nobody is at fault except ISPs and bad code.
its my personal pet theory that the reason dust has been under DDOS this last week without anyone taking credit is because some person or group is probing the network trying to find a weakness they can build a lag switch to exploit, but as of now all a lag switch does is nearly instantly disconnects the user.
aka it would disconnect an individual, not a whole squad. |
Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1216
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 20:39:00 -
[72] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:except its not a lag switch, its poor internet combined with long distance connectivity and badly written net code.
nobody is using a lag switch
you still seem to thing a lag switch is involved, it isnt, nobody is at fault except ISPs and bad code.
its my personal pet theory that the reason dust has been under DDOS this last week without anyone taking credit is because some person or group is probing the network trying to find a weakness they can build a lag switch to exploit, but as of now all a lag switch does is nearly instantly disconnects the user.
aka it would disconnect an individual, not a whole squad. Is it confirmed that the current lag is due to another DDoS attack? There's a plethora of other possible reasons for this.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
|
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1256
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 20:43:00 -
[73] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:Is it confirmed that the current lag is due to another DDoS attack? There's a plethora of other possible reasons for this.
it was confirmed on CCPs twitter
not only that but the fact that nobody has taken credit in addition to the fact that the server hasnt been completly brolught to its knees indicates to me that the intention isnt to crash the server but probe it.
that last part is purly speulation though. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
7319
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 20:45:00 -
[74] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Malkai Inos wrote:Is it confirmed that the current lag is due to another DDoS attack? There's a plethora of other possible reasons for this.
it was confirmed on CCPs twitter not only that but the fact that nobody has taken credit in addition to the fact that the server hasnt been completly brolught to its knees indicates to me that the intention isnt to crash the server but probe it. that last part is purly speulation though.
Under who's twitter handle?
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
|
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1256
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 20:49:00 -
[75] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:Malkai Inos wrote:Is it confirmed that the current lag is due to another DDoS attack? There's a plethora of other possible reasons for this.
it was confirmed on CCPs twitter not only that but the fact that nobody has taken credit in addition to the fact that the server hasnt been completly brolught to its knees indicates to me that the intention isnt to crash the server but probe it. that last part is purly speulation though. Under who's twitter handle?
i only saw it in passing unfortunatly, but it was definatly one of the usual suspects
im pretty sure it was saberwing but i cant find what thread i got the link from.
(found it, it was falcon https://twitter.com/CCP_Falcon/status/441204943186579457)
this DDOS is seperate then the one that happened in feb that a group took credit for before the attack, this one has yet to be owned up to and in all honesty with the amount of attacks this netwrok has been having someone HAS to be trying to find weaknesses to exploit. |
Altina McAlterson
Pure Innocence.
EoN.
919
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 20:56:00 -
[76] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Vman Q wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:Vman Q wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:ask yourself this, if it was so easy to lag switch dust, and so benificial.
then why would people of had to rely on the "lag bomb" equipment glitch to achieve the same effect? and why is it that the problems have largly vanished now that particular lag inducing problem is fixed?
the current DDOS attacks are the result of people attempting to build a lag switch that works, and their attempts have so far been unsuccessful. meaning anyone whos every adamanly stated that someone else has lag switched this game is not only wrong, but has no idea what a lag switch is and how it works. idk maybe because everyone is lame enough to glitch equipment but not lame enought to go out a build a lag switch for dust. i'm not accusing ppl because i was mad about loosing or something but all the responses have given me more insight and hope that these idiots, and yes they're is a huge community lately of console lag switchers, move on to the next game. if it truly was not lag switch then i apologize but the suspicion was it cleared up as soon as a squad from some mundane corp all left the game. its difficult to tell the difference between a lag switch and just plain ole lag. the fact that the entire squad left the game makes it clear that they were in fact experiancing more lag then you were to the point of it either disconnecting them or making it simply unplayable :P meaning it wasnt an intended effect and was hurting them more then it was hurting you. ive been accused of lag switching on occasion, and every time i have it was the person accusing me who was lagging the hell out of the game and not me. the current methods of lag switching common in games like these technically work, but cause more lag for those that use it then for those that are on the recieving end. see this is the part that brings me the most happiness i just can imagine how pathetic their after battle discussion is when they still haven't figured out that lag switching in dust is causing them to fail, probably 5 guys are screaming at one guy for not doing a good job at the lag switch. except its not a lag switch, its poor internet combined with long distance connectivity and badly written net code. nobody is using a lag switch you still seem to thing a lag switch is involved, it isnt, nobody is at fault except ISPs and bad code. its my personal pet theory that the reason dust has been under DDOS this last week without anyone taking credit is because some person or group is probing the network trying to find a weakness they can build a lag switch to exploit, but as of now all a lag switch does is nearly instantly disconnects the user. aka it would disconnect an individual, not a whole squad.
I'd still really like to know how it would conceivably work even if they did find a weakness. I'm not being sarcastic as I am actually curious as to any theories out there.
The only two options I have come up with are access the other player's system/home network and cause them to actually lag out or gain access to the server and make it think they are lagging out. Both of which would have to be done every single time you wanted to do it. And both of which are international crimes.
I don't think DUST is that crucial. They're just trying to find a weak network somewhere so they can exploit it to get where they really want to go.
Running a blaster tank in ambush is like bringing Anthrax to a pillow fight.
|
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1257
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 21:03:00 -
[77] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote:
I'd still really like to know how it would conceivably work even if they did find a weakness. I'm not being sarcasticas I am actually curious as to any theories out there.
The only two options I have come up with are access the other player's system/home network and cause them to actually lag out or gain access to the server and make it think they are lagging out. Both of which would have to be done every single time you wanted to do it. And both of which are international crimes.
I don't think DUST is that crucial. They're just trying to find a weak network somewhere so they can exploit it to get where they really want to go.
my educated guessing doesnt reach that far im afraid, im slightly out of my knowledge base as it is.
i can however saftly assume that whatever the objective is, its hard enough to acomplish that someone with the resources and knowledge to pull this stuff off is having difficulties with it.
aka someone with alot more knowledge and information them me cant solve it or they wouldnt still be trying.
the problem with DDOS type attacks is that they make use of a bot-net more oftin then not. wich makes tracing the problem back to its source a difficult thing to do. |
Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1216
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 21:08:00 -
[78] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote:
I'd still really like to know how it would conceivably work even if they did find a weakness. I'm not being sarcastic as I am actually curious as to any theories out there.
The only two options I have come up with are access the other player's system/home network and cause them to actually lag out or gain access to the server and make it think they are lagging out. Both of which would have to be done every single time you wanted to do it. And both of which are international crimes.
I don't think DUST is that crucial. They're just trying to find a weak network somewhere so they can exploit it to get where they really want to go.
If they did in fact find a weakness, that could allow them to seize control over parts of the battleserver. Affecting infividual game instances wouldn't be impossible in that case but, as you pointed out, no sane blackhat would waste his time and commit a serious crime just to gain a competitive edge in some fringe f2p fps.
They're probably looking for customer data and/or plain old hacker notoriety (they're petty like that).
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
|
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1257
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 21:15:00 -
[79] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:Altina McAlterson wrote:
I'd still really like to know how it would conceivably work even if they did find a weakness. I'm not being sarcastic as I am actually curious as to any theories out there.
The only two options I have come up with are access the other player's system/home network and cause them to actually lag out or gain access to the server and make it think they are lagging out. Both of which would have to be done every single time you wanted to do it. And both of which are international crimes.
I don't think DUST is that crucial. They're just trying to find a weak network somewhere so they can exploit it to get where they really want to go.
If they did in fact find a weakness, that could allow them to seize control over parts of the battleserver. Affecting infividual game instances wouldn't be impossible in that case but, as you pointed out, no sane blackhat would waste his time and commit a serious crime just to gain a competitive edge in some fringe f2p fps. They're probably looking for customer data and/or plain old hacker notoriety (they're petty like that). Edit: Accessing clients connected to the servers is very unlikely. The router and console in your home are both further obstacles and have only one set of valuable data, compared to potentionally thousands once (if) they breach TQ.
From what i understand a DDOS attack is a pretty good way of diverting attention away from whatever nefarious acts your commiting while attempting to break into servers, basically a decoy. |
Leonid Tybalt
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
313
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 21:26:00 -
[80] - Quote
Everything Dies wrote:General John Ripper wrote:ONE-I-BANDIT wrote:General John Ripper wrote:NAV HV is a lag switcher. He confessed to it. Its because hes Asian huh lol asian/lagswitcher same thing.... Just try playing nyain san. You will see what I mean. Whew...I was afraid we were going to make it past the first page without the name Nyain San being mentioned. Admit it, people--that was first thing you thought of when reading the thread title!
Well they would hardly be "above" such methods. It's common knowledge that they abused equipment spam with the intention of causing lag to make their districts easier to defend.
It's also funny how they defend themselves with the old: "You're just saying that because we rock at this game". Last time I checked, SVER Trueblood topped the leaderboards, yet they don't seem to need abusing glitches in the game. This because they are actually skilled, while Nyain San are just a bunch of cheating, win-at-any-cost-the-ends-justify-the-means scrubs. |
|
|
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1278
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 21:38:00 -
[81] - Quote
Leonid Tybalt wrote:Everything Dies wrote:General John Ripper wrote:ONE-I-BANDIT wrote:General John Ripper wrote:NAV HV is a lag switcher. He confessed to it. Its because hes Asian huh lol asian/lagswitcher same thing.... Just try playing nyain san. You will see what I mean. Whew...I was afraid we were going to make it past the first page without the name Nyain San being mentioned. Admit it, people--that was first thing you thought of when reading the thread title! Well they would hardly be "above" such methods. It's common knowledge that they abused equipment spam with the intention of causing lag to make their districts easier to defend. It's also funny how they defend themselves with the old: "You're just saying that because we rock at this game". Last time I checked, SVER Trueblood topped the leaderboards, yet they don't seem to need abusing glitches in the game. This because they are actually skilled, while Nyain San are just a bunch of cheating, win-at-any-cost-the-ends-justify-the-means scrubs.
niayn san are the supervillains of dust.
but lets not forget that they arnt the only ones who have abused glitches/exploits and game imbalance to swing things in their favor.
im not a huge fan of sever but of all the corps that have come and gone theirs is the only one who has stood the test of time and consistantly delivered and maintained while all the giants around them fell.
nyian just dont have the game tactics to win without abusing anything they can. back when they had their lag bomb all you had to do was prevent their lag setup and they would spend the entire game just trying to put it into play rather then trying to win the game normally and so they were easily countered if you knew how the lag bomb worked. they are single minded in reguards to their exploits and will try to leverage that advantage even at the cost of a win. |
GLOBAL RAGE
Consolidated Dust
26
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 20:28:00 -
[82] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote:Serimos Haeraven wrote:I've had the same exact issue when I'm in my Assault DS. Occasionally, I'll come across tanks that right once i start landing the first few shots, all of a sudden each missile i shoot after that has a 10 second delay, and i can't hit them at all anymore.
And then when i go away my missiles go back to normal rate of fire. Total switching. YUP! UDP circa 1982, but that is the only internet protocol available for FPS and the net code is too forgiving, and as I stated earlier it is admirable of CCP to try to give everyone a chance to play, but there is an inherent performance hit when all UDP is treated equally. It allows people that want to abuse the chance to do just that. I love DUST I have spent, unashamedly at least $450.00 US since closed beta for my son and I, and I will continue to support CCP. Must be something in the Lore to justify closing region crossing down, until a game type is designed that can reunite the regions-as some wise man said "God hates Lag" that means GOD loves FPS Well peace out! Time to go get a root canal--ummmm! There's no reason to believe any kind of abuse took place in this anectote. Can you explain how a player could be able to generate the described behavior without direct control of the server?
crossing regions with a squad would be the seed, usingthe American server an asian team only needs a couple of Europeans and add a few south Americans and you could easily get 400plus latency, I think CCP/DUST is WYSIWYG and that favors high latency players, you can see it in game and you have proof of it on the score board. CCP collects this data all day long and does nothing to fix the biggest, most unfair inbalance in this game.
|
Enji Elric
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
180
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 20:38:00 -
[83] - Quote
so people say you can find proof of lag switching on Dust but "just search youtube"
but i havent found any... anyone got a link?
|
Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1229
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 20:40:00 -
[84] - Quote
GLOBAL RAGE wrote:Malkai Inos wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote:Serimos Haeraven wrote:I've had the same exact issue when I'm in my Assault DS. Occasionally, I'll come across tanks that right once i start landing the first few shots, all of a sudden each missile i shoot after that has a 10 second delay, and i can't hit them at all anymore.
And then when i go away my missiles go back to normal rate of fire. Total switching. YUP! UDP circa 1982, but that is the only internet protocol available for FPS and the net code is too forgiving, and as I stated earlier it is admirable of CCP to try to give everyone a chance to play, but there is an inherent performance hit when all UDP is treated equally. It allows people that want to abuse the chance to do just that. I love DUST I have spent, unashamedly at least $450.00 US since closed beta for my son and I, and I will continue to support CCP. Must be something in the Lore to justify closing region crossing down, until a game type is designed that can reunite the regions-as some wise man said "God hates Lag" that means GOD loves FPS Well peace out! Time to go get a root canal--ummmm! There's no reason to believe any kind of abuse took place in this anectote. Can you explain how a player could be able to generate the described behavior without direct control of the server? crossing regions with a squad would be the seed, usingthe American server an asian team only needs a couple of Europeans and add a few south Americans and you could easily get 400plus latency, I think CCP/DUST is WYSIWYG and that favors high latency players, you can see it in game and you have proof of it on the score board. CCP collects this data all day long and does nothing to fix the biggest, most unfair inbalance in this game. been shot after reaching cover?, point blank range and deal little or no damage? players jumping around corners and insta killing you? bending bullets? these are all examples of high latency players being favored by the server. I don't want to put words in your mouth. Could you briefly elaborate on what you mean by wysiwyg in this context (i know what the acronym means, just not in this context)?
Now with extra edit included : Those are perfect examples for latency involvement. But without knowing how it looked on the other side you can't know who is favored and to what extend. He is probably experiencing the same thing unless you are connecting to battleserver that's closer to him, which would be hardly an exploit comparable to lag switching i might add.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
|
Enji Elric
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
180
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 20:48:00 -
[85] - Quote
If you girls are done arguing I'd like to see this Youtube proof that everyone seems to be able to find except me that people are actually lag switching on this game considering this a server based game and that server handles a hell of a lot
|
Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1229
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 20:50:00 -
[86] - Quote
Enji Elric wrote:If you girls are done arguing I'd like to see this Youtube proof that everyone seems to be able to find except me that people are actually lag switching on this game considering this a server based game and that server handles a hell of a lot
I haven't found any either and i'm not going to bother looking further before i'm convinced it's even plausible.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
|
GLOBAL RAGE
Consolidated Dust
28
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 20:53:00 -
[87] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote:Malkai Inos wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote:Serimos Haeraven wrote:I've had the same exact issue when I'm in my Assault DS. Occasionally, I'll come across tanks that right once i start landing the first few shots, all of a sudden each missile i shoot after that has a 10 second delay, and i can't hit them at all anymore.
And then when i go away my missiles go back to normal rate of fire. Total switching. YUP! UDP circa 1982, but that is the only internet protocol available for FPS and the net code is too forgiving, and as I stated earlier it is admirable of CCP to try to give everyone a chance to play, but there is an inherent performance hit when all UDP is treated equally. It allows people that want to abuse the chance to do just that. I love DUST I have spent, unashamedly at least $450.00 US since closed beta for my son and I, and I will continue to support CCP. Must be something in the Lore to justify closing region crossing down, until a game type is designed that can reunite the regions-as some wise man said "God hates Lag" that means GOD loves FPS Well peace out! Time to go get a root canal--ummmm! There's no reason to believe any kind of abuse took place in this anectote. Can you explain how a player could be able to generate the described behavior without direct control of the server? crossing regions with a squad would be the seed, usingthe American server an asian team only needs a couple of Europeans and add a few south Americans and you could easily get 400plus latency, I think CCP/DUST is WYSIWYG and that favors high latency players, you can see it in game and you have proof of it on the score board. CCP collects this data all day long and does nothing to fix the biggest, most unfair inbalance in this game. I don't want to put words in your mouth. Could you briefly elaborate on what you mean by wysiwyg in this context (i know what the acronym means, just not in this context)?
the server records your movement, so if a player with high latency pulls the trigger the server can rewind time and tries to make sence of what that player attempted to hit. if you are the other guy it looks like they have bad aim and are shooting behind you as you run past. the reality is that they are shooting at where they see you, so the term wysiwyg. the server rewinds you and account for latency and bam your dead. i am not privy to all the schemes CCP is or could be using to try to make this global shooter to work, but they can't speed up an electron and distance is not FPS friendly.
|
Enji Elric
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
180
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 21:01:00 -
[88] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:Enji Elric wrote:If you girls are done arguing I'd like to see this Youtube proof that everyone seems to be able to find except me that people are actually lag switching on this game considering this a server based game and that server handles a hell of a lot
I haven't found any either and i'm not going to bother looking further before i'm convinced it's even plausible.
Exactly |
Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1231
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 21:06:00 -
[89] - Quote
GLOBAL RAGE wrote:Malkai Inos wrote:I don't want to put words in your mouth. Could you briefly elaborate on what you mean by wysiwyg in this context (i know what the acronym means, just not in this context)?
the server records your movement, so if a player with high latency pulls the trigger the server can rewind time and tries to make sence of what that player attempted to hit. if you are the other guy it looks like they have bad aim and are shooting behind you as you run past. the reality is that they are shooting at where they see you, so the term wysiwyg. the server rewinds you and account for latency and bam your dead. i am not privy to all the schemes CCP is or could be using to try to make this global shooter to work, but they can't speed up an electron and distance is not FPS friendly. It reasonable to assume some form of lag compensation is happening. Pretty much standard in FPS these days.
I doubt however that it's willing to rewind upwards of 100ms or so due to entropy alone. You can only shift time around so much before it causes constant and massive desync for everyone involved. Funny things like dying from a hitscan bullet who's shooter died half a second ago would be possible. I've had this happen in crappier games, not in dust.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
|
GLOBAL RAGE
Consolidated Dust
28
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 21:07:00 -
[90] - Quote
Enji Elric wrote:so people say you can find proof of lag switching on Dust but "just search youtube"
but i havent found any... anyone got a link?
proof other than experience is just a bridge too far, I think that most people have seen it in other games and i read a dev post and they seemed adamant that the warping problem was not CCP server related. All i know is some pretty crazy **** is happening and it's more than an orange/white orange switch being toggled. |
|
|
GLOBAL RAGE
Consolidated Dust
29
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 21:13:00 -
[91] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote:Malkai Inos wrote:I don't want to put words in your mouth. Could you briefly elaborate on what you mean by wysiwyg in this context (i know what the acronym means, just not in this context)?
the server records your movement, so if a player with high latency pulls the trigger the server can rewind time and tries to make sence of what that player attempted to hit. if you are the other guy it looks like they have bad aim and are shooting behind you as you run past. the reality is that they are shooting at where they see you, so the term wysiwyg. the server rewinds you and account for latency and bam your dead. i am not privy to all the schemes CCP is or could be using to try to make this global shooter to work, but they can't speed up an electron and distance is not FPS friendly. It reasonable to assume some form of lag compensation is happening. Pretty much standard in FPS these days. I doubt however that it's willing to rewind upwards of 100ms or so due to entropy alone. You can only shift time around so much before it causes constant and massive desync for everyone involved. Funny things like dying from a hitscan bullet who's shooter died half a second ago would be possible. I've had this happen in crappier games, not in dust.
well during some of the warping events i got rewound more than 50 meters and as a heavy that involves a sundial..
and to make clear the warping is not what i was alluding to but a point of ironic humor.
|
Gelhad Thremyr
Quebec United
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 21:14:00 -
[92] - Quote
GLOBAL RAGE wrote:Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:Vman Q wrote:Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:Lag switching in Dust is like lag switching in EVE online l'op what happens when you lag switch in EVE? User suffers from lag while everyone else carries on with their life's like nothing happened Actually EVE is a true TCP/IP game, and DUST utilizes UDP over TCP/IP so there is a big difference in how time stamps are handled in FPS. I do not think that a simple orange/white orange switch is being used-I think they are using PC's with dual NICs and running a UDP flood on the transmit side. It would look like a DDOS attack- a simple syn flood. CCP your net code is too permissive in allowing people with bad ISP connections and your desire to have a global community-both are laudable and commendable, but you need to protect your baby (DUST514) I love your game, I believe you are on the right track and I am supporting you financially-please feel free to look at my families DUST purchases. With this support in mind I must ask you to protect my investment in you and DUST 514. You need to segment your regions first and then tighten up your net code. I know some of the "amazing" players will have to fix their internet situation and not be so "amazing" and the true hack/laggers will get filtered as well. I know this is a lot of work and expensive and we can manage for now, but you NEED to get it done, ready and tested before your PS4 migration. The free riders are not helping the situation and they certainly are not here to support your baby as it grows up! They are trying to suffocate it in the crib. My FPS friends, and I am 50yrs old so I have a lot, that have tried DUST will not play it because of the laggers, and when you combine the Proto/WASD stuff they wonder about your insight and ability to get this right. My FPS experience started on "broken ring" IPX networks. ;-)
From my experience working at ubisoft on networked games this guy has nailed it right there !
Quebec United CFO
|
Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1231
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 21:21:00 -
[93] - Quote
Gelhad Thremyr wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote:Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:Vman Q wrote:Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:Lag switching in Dust is like lag switching in EVE online l'op what happens when you lag switch in EVE? User suffers from lag while everyone else carries on with their life's like nothing happened Actually EVE is a true TCP/IP game, and DUST utilizes UDP over TCP/IP so there is a big difference in how time stamps are handled in FPS. I do not think that a simple orange/white orange switch is being used-I think they are using PC's with dual NICs and running a UDP flood on the transmit side. It would look like a DDOS attack- a simple syn flood. CCP your net code is too permissive in allowing people with bad ISP connections and your desire to have a global community-both are laudable and commendable, but you need to protect your baby (DUST514) I love your game, I believe you are on the right track and I am supporting you financially-please feel free to look at my families DUST purchases. With this support in mind I must ask you to protect my investment in you and DUST 514. You need to segment your regions first and then tighten up your net code. I know some of the "amazing" players will have to fix their internet situation and not be so "amazing" and the true hack/laggers will get filtered as well. I know this is a lot of work and expensive and we can manage for now, but you NEED to get it done, ready and tested before your PS4 migration. The free riders are not helping the situation and they certainly are not here to support your baby as it grows up! They are trying to suffocate it in the crib. My FPS friends, and I am 50yrs old so I have a lot, that have tried DUST will not play it because of the laggers, and when you combine the Proto/WASD stuff they wonder about your insight and ability to get this right. My FPS experience started on "broken ring" IPX networks. ;-) From my experience working at ubisoft on networked games this guy has nailed it right there ! Less ad verecundiam, more explanation on how this can be actively abused in a server side archiceture please.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
|
Bradric Banewolf
D3ATH CARD
154
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 21:24:00 -
[94] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:How is it possible to lag switch on Dust?
I've seen it too. Been posting about it for a minute now, and i'm glad the community finally catching on. Because there is no consequence players have gotten bold with it. Every other corp doing it seems like. Then when you mail em or accuse them of obviously lag switching they try to say you're a poor player. I don't think they realize how obvious it is when they do it, and even though someone may have told them that they can pass it over as server lag, we can all tell the difference.
Like i yave always said. There are men with honor, integrity, and principles. Then there are the spineless, glory stealing, sniveling weasels out there who feed on others strengths lime parasites!
It is being done, the whole "you gotta be the host" is bs, and we have caught multiple guys redhanded and called them on it. I'm a man of my word so I won't say no names, but you know who you are. Earn your respect back by cutting that crap out.
"Anybody order chaos?"
|
Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1231
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 21:28:00 -
[95] - Quote
GLOBAL RAGE wrote:Malkai Inos wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote:Malkai Inos wrote:I don't want to put words in your mouth. Could you briefly elaborate on what you mean by wysiwyg in this context (i know what the acronym means, just not in this context)?
the server records your movement, so if a player with high latency pulls the trigger the server can rewind time and tries to make sence of what that player attempted to hit. if you are the other guy it looks like they have bad aim and are shooting behind you as you run past. the reality is that they are shooting at where they see you, so the term wysiwyg. the server rewinds you and account for latency and bam your dead. i am not privy to all the schemes CCP is or could be using to try to make this global shooter to work, but they can't speed up an electron and distance is not FPS friendly. It reasonable to assume some form of lag compensation is happening. Pretty much standard in FPS these days. I doubt however that it's willing to rewind upwards of 100ms or so due to entropy alone. You can only shift time around so much before it causes constant and massive desync for everyone involved. Funny things like dying from a hitscan bullet who's shooter died half a second ago would be possible. I've had this happen in crappier games, not in dust. well during some of the warping events i got rewound more than 50 meters and as a heavy that involves a sundial.. and to make clear the warping is not what i was alluding to but a point of ironic humor. I've touched on why that is happening earlier. When your transmit gets delayed too much the server assume you haven't given any input.
So while you seemingly kept moving on the client during the lag spike, on the server you where just stopping as soon as the connectioon broke. Once you get resynced it puts you back to where you actually (from the perspective of the server) are. This is a real issue and gets worse when you play on overseas battleservers but other players can not actively provoke this behavior other than by somehow forcing you into their region.
I'm focusing on methods that can be described as at least similar to what a lag switch can achieve, namely an active intervention of another player that delays you data on demand.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
|
Bradric Banewolf
D3ATH CARD
154
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 21:35:00 -
[96] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:I don't think that people lag switch. It's too much trouble to go through for a video game IMO.
You and I think that way, but these guys have done this in multiple fps's and are already setup for this.
"Anybody order chaos?"
|
IAmDuncanIdaho II
R 0 N 1 N
256
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 21:36:00 -
[97] - Quote
GLOBAL RAGE wrote:
My FPS experience started on "broken ring" IPX networks. ;-)
lol - "broken ring"
I was a novell netware admin back in the day, not much good with network engineering side of things but we had to fix our thin ethernet cabling whenever the students kicked it too much under the desks...your comments bring me back.
As for lag switching and other client-server hacks, I really know nothing about it, but the way ppl can cheat sounds interesting, science behind it! |
Gelhad Thremyr
Quebec United
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 22:17:00 -
[98] - Quote
If you capture the right thing off net card one going to net card two (ps3) decrypt packets find structure of delta optimized udp data, you can actually create or alter outgoing packets superseeding what the ps3 can send back, this could be controlled by software. Of course it helps alot to know how your own traffic is generated and optimized. So its highly unlikely to happen unless an insider does it, or somebody familiar with the network code of unreal engine 3 if they use that or any network engine. but you know, the blueray code was deemed unbreakable. The ps3 was broke up also, who knows what an intelligent felow with lots of time on their hands can achieve for personal fun. In the end software is always breakable, spoofable and inherently as secure as the people made it to be. Would you want to know more, try to get your hands on raknet lib, all these things are implemented. What is actually hard is to make sense of the information going from the server to the client because its optimized ajd make very little sense structure wise, but there is only that much same info going on while shooting and moving, two things that can be nailed down. All these info are pretty much common knowledge to game developpers.
I also second the comment on priority of packets here, its abnormal we get leveled down in ping so eastern players may play with the bigger player base, although the idea of cloud network is commendable...
Quebec United CFO
|
ugg reset
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
512
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 22:26:00 -
[99] - Quote
what is this? tubro bogiman/wichhunt 2.0?
Thr33 is the magic number.
|
Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1235
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 22:33:00 -
[100] - Quote
Gelhad Thremyr wrote:
If you capture the right thing off net card one going to net card two (ps3) decrypt packets find structure of delta optimized udp data, you can actually create or alter outgoing packets superseeding what the ps3 can send back, this could be controlled by software. Of course it helps alot to know how your own traffic is generated and optimized. So its highly unlikely to happen unless an insider does it, or somebody familiar with the network code of unreal engine 3 if they use that or any network engine. but you know, the blueray code was deemed unbreakable. The ps3 was broke up also, who knows what an intelligent felow with lots of time on their hands can achieve for personal fun. In the end software is always breakable, spoofable and inherently as secure as the people made it to be. Would you want to know more, try to get your hands on raknet lib, all these things are implemented. What is actually hard is to make sense of the information going from the server to the client because its optimized ajd make very little sense structure wise, but there is only that much same info going on while shooting and moving, two things that can be nailed down. All these info are pretty much common knowledge to game developpers.
I also second the comment on priority of packets here, its abnormal we get leveled down in ping so eastern players may play with the bigger player base, although the idea of cloud network is commendable...
What can this possibly achieve when the client has no authority over the game state? If your input is in any way conflicting with what the server allows or predicts then you just get yourself de- and then re-syncronised and that's it.
What am I missing here?
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
|
|
|
Gelhad Thremyr
Quebec United
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 22:40:00 -
[101] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:Gelhad Thremyr wrote:
If you capture the right thing off net card one going to net card two (ps3) decrypt packets find structure of delta optimized udp data, you can actually create or alter outgoing packets superseeding what the ps3 can send back, this could be controlled by software. Of course it helps alot to know how your own traffic is generated and optimized. So its highly unlikely to happen unless an insider does it, or somebody familiar with the network code of unreal engine 3 if they use that or any network engine. but you know, the blueray code was deemed unbreakable. The ps3 was broke up also, who knows what an intelligent felow with lots of time on their hands can achieve for personal fun. In the end software is always breakable, spoofable and inherently as secure as the people made it to be. Would you want to know more, try to get your hands on raknet lib, all these things are implemented. What is actually hard is to make sense of the information going from the server to the client because its optimized ajd make very little sense structure wise, but there is only that much same info going on while shooting and moving, two things that can be nailed down. All these info are pretty much common knowledge to game developpers.
I also second the comment on priority of packets here, its abnormal we get leveled down in ping so eastern players may play with the bigger player base, although the idea of cloud network is commendable...
What can this possibly achieve when the client has no authority over the game state? If your input is in any way conflicting with what the server allows or predicts then you just get yourself de- and then re-syncronised and that's it. What am I missing here?
You are right if extra layers of protections are added server wise its futile. In reality very few server does that, you know cause the work involved doesnt warrant the benefit of doing it. In the ends its just a video game. I would be surprised the server actually record a series of frame and check if what is coming from its own client is secured, encryption of packets is the normal good to go basic protection against packet opening and peeping. Client side prediction is more popular on the other hand cause a client is not authoritative and will be overrided automaticaly by server packets.
Quebec United CFO
|
Vman Q
TOP NOCH Enterprises
22
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 23:13:00 -
[102] - Quote
i'm not here declaring i know what causing the lags your over analayzing this. don't think i'm some COD noob QQing because he lost a pub match and wants to blame it on something, i'm possibly just a forum alt of someone banned who's trying to figure out the lag. i know what equipment spam is and this is not frame rate lag it's massive lag i never seen before in dust. i dont remember who i am replying to but thanks all who didnt take the post wrong and provided insight |
Altina McAlterson
Pure Innocence.
EoN.
921
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 23:13:00 -
[103] - Quote
Stop saying "lag switch" because a "lag switch" is already a thing and it's not this. At least not what intelligent people think is going on. Somebody come up with a new term because it's actually getting kind of annoying.
Bunch of people wrote:
Something about tachyon emitters.
Ok, just so I'm clear about 'packets' and inferstructire jiggers and some of the other made up words you guys are throwing around:
Actually I don't understand any of it. I mean I understand what the words mean but I'm not seeing the big picture. So can anyone break it down for me? I've been in IT for years so go ahead and use big words but I still can't understand how exactly the cheater in one location is affecting what everyone else sees on their television or monitor without having access to either the server or the other players networks?
Because, correct me if I'm wrong here, isn't most of information for gameplay coming from the server? Such as when we used to get that desync where everyone else would keep moving in one direction but you were free to move around? If you shot your gun the animation would play but the ammo count would remain the same and you never had to reload. So it seems to me without input from the server you weren't actually shooting anything but the client was just going through the animation since that's stored locally and the actual shot in generated on the server.
So can please somebody tell just how in the hell they think this is all being accomplished?
Running a blaster tank in ambush is like bringing Anthrax to a pillow fight.
|
Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1236
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 23:17:00 -
[104] - Quote
Gelhad Thremyr wrote:Malkai Inos wrote:Gelhad Thremyr wrote:
If you capture the right thing off net card one going to net card two (ps3) decrypt packets find structure of delta optimized udp data, you can actually create or alter outgoing packets superseeding what the ps3 can send back, this could be controlled by software. Of course it helps alot to know how your own traffic is generated and optimized. So its highly unlikely to happen unless an insider does it, or somebody familiar with the network code of unreal engine 3 if they use that or any network engine. but you know, the blueray code was deemed unbreakable. The ps3 was broke up also, who knows what an intelligent felow with lots of time on their hands can achieve for personal fun. In the end software is always breakable, spoofable and inherently as secure as the people made it to be. Would you want to know more, try to get your hands on raknet lib, all these things are implemented. What is actually hard is to make sense of the information going from the server to the client because its optimized ajd make very little sense structure wise, but there is only that much same info going on while shooting and moving, two things that can be nailed down. All these info are pretty much common knowledge to game developpers.
I also second the comment on priority of packets here, its abnormal we get leveled down in ping so eastern players may play with the bigger player base, although the idea of cloud network is commendable...
What can this possibly achieve when the client has no authority over the game state? If your input is in any way conflicting with what the server allows or predicts then you just get yourself de- and then re-syncronised and that's it. What am I missing here? You are right if extra layers of protections are added server wise its futile. In reality very few server does that, you know cause the work involved doesnt warrant the benefit of doing it. In the ends its just a video game. I would be surprised the server actually record a series of frame and check if what is coming from its own client is secured, encryption of packets is the normal good to go basic protection against packet opening and peeping. Client side prediction is more popular on the other hand cause a client is not authoritative and will be overrided automaticaly by server packets. I think you are making this a bit more comlicated than it needs to be. All the client is able to send is user input, namely button presses, z-coord. of L2/R2 and x/y-coord. of L/R. The server, at all times, knows and dictates movement speed, turn rate, and any other relevant metric of all entities.
When the server receives any valid input (buttons that actually exist/ stick coord. that are possible) it will just incorporate it into the simulation on its own terms and rules. None of this data is actually to able malicously influence the serverside simulation because there's no room for it to do so.
The worst I could imagine would be injection/OCR based aimbots that modify controller input to lock on the target. The former is usually trivial to detect/prevent once noticed and the latter...well... has anyone done this before?
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
|
Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1236
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 23:21:00 -
[105] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote:Stop saying "lag switch" because a "lag switch" is already a thing and it's not this. At least not what intelligent people think is going on. Somebody come up with a new term because it's actually getting kind of annoying.
Bunch of people wrote:
Something about tachyon emitters.
Ok, just so I'm clear about 'packets' and inferstructire jiggers and some of the other made up words you guys are throwing around: Actually I don't understand any of it. I mean I understand what the words mean but I'm not seeing the big picture. So can anyone break it down for me? I've been in IT for years so go ahead and use big words but I still can't understand how exactly the cheater in one location is affecting what everyone else sees on their television or monitor without having access to either the server or the other players networks? Because, correct me if I'm wrong here, isn't most of information for gameplay coming from the server? Such as when we used to get that desync where everyone else would keep moving in one direction but you were free to move around? If you shot your gun the animation would play but the ammo count would remain the same and you never had to reload. So it seems to me without input from the server you weren't actually shooting anything but the client was just going through the animation since that's stored locally and the actual shot in generated on the server. So can please somebody tell just how in the hell they think this is all being accomplished? Correct. The client just goes ahead with the animation to provide immediate feedback but it's not able to update even the ammo count on its own until the server confirms a shot has actually been fired.
Looks like classic "don't trust the client" to me.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
|
Zirzo Valcyn
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
190
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 23:24:00 -
[106] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote:Stop saying "lag switch" because a "lag switch" is already a thing and it's not this. At least not what intelligent people think is going on. Somebody come up with a new term because it's actually getting kind of annoying.
So can please somebody tell just how in the hell they think this is all being accomplished?
i apologize that yours so wrapped up in dust and out of touch with the terminology of the rest of the fps world, next time i will take that into consideration before posting
oops forgot to swtich alts my bad
u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll.
forum warrior .189
|
Scheneighnay McBob
Endless Hatred
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
4341
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 23:28:00 -
[107] - Quote
Lag-switching in Dust?
Go ahead and try it. You'll be the only one the lag affects.
I am your scan error.
|
Gelhad Thremyr
Quebec United
121
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 01:10:00 -
[108] - Quote
Actually for the record, client send RPC calls to the server (remote functions executions) most likely containing the command to move with a direction vector or a command which translate to shoot. The facing view is updated (mouse look) also with a rpc call. That being said there is most likely a small check to see if there is a too big jump in view and direction change so the server can check if a packet is incorrect or hacked. So with an authoritative server like dust, you have the client simulation of what is calculated remotely on the server. It is again very hard to make believe the server something else than its supposed to by hacking udp packets.
Quebec United CFO
|
GLOBAL RAGE
Consolidated Dust
30
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 10:23:00 -
[109] - Quote
CCP could you set the cost of missing and late packets as a hit to the offender's shields. I want a global game, and do realise the necessity for high latency clients, but the score boards are proof that it is now an unfair advantage.
I want to praise and thank you for your game and efforts
Peace/out from sunny Tampa
and yes I am a xenophobic Caldari. |
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |