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"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

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"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

• The role distortion between racial logi caused by the combined effect of equipment fittings reduction and equipment slot number disparity at pro level?
• Are the slot alterations made with consideration for the baseline stat disparities between logi and assault frames?
• How does the proposal maintain/improve the equilibrium of the risk vs reward baseline (i.e. tactical value and potential earnings being normalized between roles at X SP/ISK investment)
• What steps does the proposal take to improve/protect the viability of support play, especially at higher levels such as PC?
• What is the method used to assess equipment slot value in light of the recent equipment nerfs and racial buff narrowing on logistics suits?
• What, if any, are the specific changes made to reduce the presence of "killer bees" at pro levels rather than apply a generalized frame wide nerf, which will inevitably effect support play as well?

Cross Atu for CPM1- An emergent candidate

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Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+

Cross Atu for CPM1- An emergent candidate

Cross Atu wrote:

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

Not sure what you mean by the role distortion caused by equipment fitting bonus, and equipment slot disparity, but in my plan the Caldari logi will have 4 equipment slots at prototype just like the Gallente and Minmatar in exchange for having 8 modules instead of 9. The Amarr logi still will only have 3 at proto, but only because it gains a sidearm, though alternatively I suppose the Amarr logi could have 1 less module than other logis in exchange for having its equipment increased to match other racial logis; either way, equipment slots or module slots (but not both as it is now) should be a tradeoff for the sidearm.

Regarding your concerns about improving/protecting support play, in my plan lower tier logis should be more durable which will allow them to do their jobs better without dying, and the Caldari logi gets an equipment slot at both standard and prototype tiers meaning they have more tools for which to support.

Slot alterations are indeed proposed with base stats in mind, I do no want logis to have less module slots than their assault counterparts, I want them to have the same amount of module slots so the assault's base HP can really make a difference.

As for killer-bees, for the most parts I don't want to nerf logis, I want to buff assaults to have module slot counts that match logis at prototype. The assault's higher base HP + equal module slots = assaults can tank slightly more HP than logis, meaning logis will not be the best offensive medium frame. I think that solves the slayer logi issue.


The plan is basically this:

Make assaults and logis have the same racially consistent module slot layouts, this will make the assault's higher base HP truly matter, and not lead to slayer logis. The slayer logi issue existed because at prototype, all logis have more modules and can thus tank more HP than their assault counterpart; my plan fixes this. All assaults and logis start with 6 modules standard, 7 modules advanced, and 8 modules prototype (most logis have 8 or less right now anyway).

+1 module slot per tier smooth progression to close the unnecessarily large gap between tiers. The huge gap between medium frame tiers is only present with medium frames; lights and heavies have a sensible +1 module per tier progression. Fixing this would especially benefit lower tier logis which are generally just awful.

The only place this requires extra changes is with the Cal logi: there is no reason for it to start with only 2 equipment at standard, the Amarr one starts with 2 equipment as well but only because it gains a sidearm, so the Cal logi needs a 3rd equipment at standard. Logis generally have 1 more module slot at prototype than their assault counterparts, but the Cal logi gets +2 module slots (9 modules total) at prototype, but does not gain a 4th equipment slot; while this tradeoff is arguably fair, it allows a Caldari logi to tank more HP than a Cal assault, even with my plan to buff assault module slots to 8, and the slayer logi issue would continue. In light of this, I propose reducing prototype Cal logi modules from 9 to 8, and in exchange giving them a 4th equipment.

Make basic medium frames have the same module slot and layout as the proposed assaults and logis, but -1; in exchange, basic mediums should get a 2nd equipment slot. This makes the basic medium have a purpose beyond a crappier assault that quickly becomes obsolete once you unlock a real assault. This also makes the basic mediums a flexible generalist role between assaults and logis; lets you try out both the assault slayer role, and the logi support roles before specializing. Currently you can test out the role of an assault with a basic medium, but there is no way to really test drive the role of a logi, and that's unfair considering the basic medium is the parent frame of both.

Hopefully that should answer some of your concerns.

That does indeed address most of my prior questions/concerns.
There remains the issue of viable support play in general but that is not within the scope of this proposal as it pertains more fully to other things such as the relative value of equipment on the battlefield.

I would be tempted however to tweak a couple of aspects to hone in on the goal.
To save on space I'm going to provide two links rather than quote
First link
Second link
The TL;DR being - Bring logi base stats up to assault levels as assaults gain slots to match logi, then give assaults bonuses that add more 'gank' to their options as a counterbalance to the logi equipment slots.
This keeps both Med specializations combat viable while making the assault always be the better slayer when comparing mirrored fits/specs.

Thanks for the response and looking forward to your further thoughts here

Cheers,
Cross

Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+

Cross Atu for CPM1- An emergent candidate