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Agreed, but at the same time they make the un-bonused medium frame pointless. If there needs to be slots added to suits it should be to the frames with no role specific bonus. The suits don't seem to have a purpose and with a little extra SP they are pretty much invalidated by specialized suits. I think that specialized suits should lose a slot and the then give that slot to the medium frames that don't have a bonus. That would give them more versatility and more appeal to players.

Specialized suits should be better at the role they are specializing in and not just better in every way. Give the non specialized suits the extra resources so they can appeal to people who don't want to spend or have the SP to spend in a role specific suit, I think that the role specific suits should stay the way they are and the un-bonused should get the extra resources because what is the point of the suit if an assault is clearly better in every way? If CCP ever gets smart and puts the bonuses on the suit per level then yes they need to be looked at but as it is now the medium frames need to get the love and that would allow them to be good but generic instead of totally inferior to a specialized with the exact same resources but with a few bonuses.

Basic M-1, Assault M-1 and the Logi M-1 are exactly the same in every way except that they last two have bonuses and cost an extra 374k SP to get into. Barring the the merc not having the extra SP there is absolutely no reason to use the basic suit, all the stats are the same and they even cost the same. Make the basic suit have a resource advantage so that they are useful and keep the specialized as they are.

I am not saying they don't need to be looked at but something needs to be done to make the basic suits better and more appealing. SP shouldn't be the only reason a merc uses the basic suit. Again, what is the point of the basic if the assault is the jack of all trades and the the logi is the master of being a medic? Give the basic an extra slot or two and tweak the stats to make the better at general purpose use.

Here is a quick example of what I mean. Give the basic M-1 a speed boost and an extra equipment slot that makes it better at doing everything but not superior or inferior to the assault M-1 or logi M-1. The Caldari would gain an extra high slot and a shield regen buff, the Amarr would get an extra low and an extra high and the Gallante would get an extra low and scan buff. These are just examples but you should get my point and of course the buff should reflect the race's technology or scheme.

Yes, I know you covered it and I think I was just crying more than anything. I would love to see the prices dropped and the stats tweak just to give us more choices but when it gets boiled down to the real problem it is how the bonuses are applied to specialized and the lack of bonuses on basic. Giving every suit - including basics - a per level bonus on the suit would fix many of the problems we have with these suits.

I am also just trying to keep this topic at the top. CCP notices threads with good discussions that have many pages and I want them to notice this thread and think about what they are doing with the bonuses. DUST514 has two major problems that is holding it back in my opinion and it is the suit bonus system and no market. I think the market is close but we need to stay vigilant about theses bonuses.

my to go assault before 1.8 was minmatar because I like its speed but I converted to my new toy, the gallente scout. I just got it to lvl 5 and this suit is facking amazing. here is my gk.0 fit:

Hi & Low Slots:
2 Complex Shield Extender
4 Basic Armor Plates

Weapons:
Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle
Six Kin Sub Machine Gun
Core Locus Grenade

Equipment:
Ishukone Cloak Field
Wyirkomi Nanite Injector or Ishukone Nanohive

yes, I can fit a 770 HP tank, proto cloak, proto weapons plus another proto equipment piece on that thing and the gist is I am about as fast as I am with the minmatar assault with around the same total hp. I just traded that weaksauce clipsize bonus for an awesome cloak, a second piece of equipment, lower hitbox, lower scanprofile & higher scan precision plus the ability to evade alot of scanners. I can now cross the battlefield faster with my cloak without being caught because I do not have to waste my time trying to abuse terrain.

RIP minmatar assault

One of the things that really shocked me when I realized it was the price difference for frames/their role-specialized counterparts. If the frames received no skills, no really defining features whatsoever why have they always cost more?

The previous Amarr Heavy frame (prior to 1.8) was the only exception I could find to justify a price difference as it possessed additional high slots making it an attractive fit for a forge gunner to stack damage mods or shield extenders.

If Frames are to be more customizable bonus less suits, wouldn't they need a price reduction to make them more attractive than their brethren (who also have skill-bonuses)?

I am almost full time logi and I already point this out in the closed beta but no one bothered because logis werent that popular.

imho logis should have low amounts of slots but hight base HP similar to commandos. basically a specialized suit with not much flexibility (less HP than commandos obviously). point is, they get equipment flexibility, no reason to give them more slot flexibility from hi and low slots. they only need HP to support at the front under fire and equipment slots, nothing else.

assault should have high amounts of hi and low slots giving them flexibility (aka jack of all trades) in fittings but no flexibility in equipment, contrary to the logis.

this would fix all issues imho. if you want high amounts of HP as assault you can tank them out to the max, if you want a profile damped shield tanked suit nothing will stop you. you will always be better with the specific fit than a logi due to the amounts of slots.

and for logis, will still be tough and you get some utility low and hi slow to improve one or two aspects marginally but you wont be able to overshadow a specialized assault fit.

+1

Well done! I agree with every you have written on this post.

I would like to see the bonuses moved to the suits like the bonuses are on the ships in EVE online and have a 3rd bonus added for example:

Basic suit bonus: X% per level

Assault suit bonus:Y% per level
Assault suit bonus:Z% per level

This would also make it easier to define the roles of drop suits, the basic suit bonus could be a small bonus to something beneficial to the suit like reload speed of heavy weapons on the heavies and a smaller cross bonus between assault and commando suits like a 5% damage bonus to racial weapons for the assault suits and 1% less weapon buff to the use of racial weapons the Amarr commando would get a 4% reduction to leaser weapon heat build up per level.

You may very much like Zeylon Rho's idea

That guys post makes no sense.

Current system:
Skill: Amarr Assault - unlocks suit, 5% reduction to laser heat build-up, and 5% bonus to shield recharge rate per level of skill.

Suit: Amarr Assault - .... you get the above skill bonus if and only if you are wearing this suit (STD, ADV, PRO).

Suggested Change:
Skill: Amarr Assault - unlocks suits.

Suit: Amarr Assault - (STD, ADV, or PRO) - Grants 5% reduction to laser heat build-up, and 5% bonus to shield recharge rate per rank of Amarr Assault skill.


Was current system introduced in 1.8? It's never been this before and I've never heard of this before lol. He's insane.
It's always been the second.
Not to mention they're the exact same thing.
There's only one assault suit. Lol

What he's saying that at present, if you have Amarr assault skilled up to level 5, that equates to a 25% heat reduction bonus. On ANY Amarr assault. So, if you use:
A-1: 25%
A/1: 25%
ak.0: 25%

What he is proposing is that instead, the bonus is locked to the SUIT, not the skill. So, if you use:

A-1: 5%
A/1: 15%
ak.0: 25%

I don't support this idea for 3 reasons.

One, it only encourages protostomping and makes the disparity between rich and poor corps even bigger.

Two, it brings back useless skills, namely level 2 and 4, which would give you nothing in return.

Three, this isn't EvE and people need to get over that. FPS's are different animals.

What he's saying that at present, if you have Amarr assault skilled up to level 5, that equates to a 25% heat reduction bonus. On ANY Amarr assault. So, if you use:
A-1: 25%
A/1: 25%
ak.0: 25%

What he is proposing is that instead, the bonus is locked to the SUIT, not the skill. So, if you use:

A-1: 5%
A/1: 15%
ak.0: 25%

I don't support this idea for 3 reasons.

One, it only encourages protostomping and makes the disparity between rich and poor corps even bigger.

Two, it brings back useless skills, namely level 2 and 4, which would give you nothing in return.

Three, this isn't EvE and people need to get over that. FPS's are different animals.

NO NO NO
I misunderstood the idea at first also. it is functionally the same as how bonuses and skill levels work. I will provide examples of how Zeylon's idea works.

Example:
Amarr assault skill: level 5
Amarr assault dropsuit bonus: 5% reduction of laser weaponry heat buildup.
result: 25% (5% x lv 5) reduction of laser weapon heat buildup reduction per level.

It is the same as the status quo in this regard, but the advantage the idea is that you can have new special dropsuits of the same specialization (assault, logi, sentinel, commando, etc) but have different bonuses. Those different bonuses would be leveled up by the same skill as the normal dropsuits.

Example:
Amarr assault skill: level 3
"Guardian" Amarr assault (new special dropsuit) dropsuit bonus: 2% damage increase against Gallente and Minmatar dropsuits.
Result: 6% (2% x lv 3) increase to Gallente and Minmatar dropsuits.

Amarr scout skill: level 4
"Blood Raider" Amarr scout (new special dropsuit) dropsuit bonus: 2% weapon damage increase when hitting enemies from the back.
Result: 8% (2% x lv 4) weapon damage increase to enemies hit from the back.

NO NO NO
I misunderstood the idea at first also. it is functionally the same as how bonuses and skill levels work. I will provide examples of how Zeylon's idea works.

Example:
Amarr assault skill: level 5
Amarr assault dropsuit bonus: 5% reduction of laser weaponry heat buildup.
result: 25% (5% x lv 5) reduction of laser weapon heat buildup reduction per level.

It is the same as the status quo in this regard, but the advantage the idea is that you can have new special dropsuits of the same specialization (assault, logi, sentinel, commando, etc) but have different bonuses. Those different bonuses would be leveled up by the same skill as the normal dropsuits.

Example:
Amarr assault skill: level 3
"Guardian" Amarr assault (new special dropsuit) dropsuit bonus: 2% damage increase against Gallente and Minmatar dropsuits.
Result: 6% (2% x lv 3) increase to Gallente and Minmatar dropsuits.

Amarr scout skill: level 4
"Blood Raider" Amarr scout (new special dropsuit) dropsuit bonus: 2% weapon damage increase when hitting enemies from the back.
Result: 8% (2% x lv 4) weapon damage increase to enemies hit from the back.



If your Amarr assault skill is level 5, you will get the maximum bonus, even if wearing only standard. The bonus will be different however depending on what variant of the Amarr assault you're wearing.

I edited my post, but I still don't get it. Without tiericide what is the change? Even with it, would you not just introduce another branch off the Amarr assault tree and the bonuses apply "downstream"?

What does he mean by tying it to the suit if not that the suit itself determines the bonus?

But that's how it already works. At least pre 1.8
I haven't played 1.8 but this is completely new to me.
This is already like this because assault suits are supposed to have 2 bonuses for the medium skill and 2 bonuses for assault.
did they move it to skills in 1.I because if they didn't his system is flat out wrong.

Functionally that is how things already works, but there is a fundamental difference; you cannot add new suits that use the same skills but with different bonuses. That is because the skill determines the bonus, to to add a new suit with a different bonus it would require a new skill.
The difference in what Zeylon suggests is simply that you would be able to have a bunch of variant (much like weapons have variants, like "tactical", "breach", "assault") that use the same skill. So you could have more options within your suit type without having to skill into completely new suits. The same skill can unlock and benefit more suits.

Functionally the same, but more room for variety.

That's why I'm asking if this changed in 1.8
Because that's already how it worked in 1.7
and this would only apply to mediums. There's only one assault cruiser per race in eve.
We don't need assault suit variants.

If it was correct like eve I get two bonuses from the medium skill as an assault.
And as a logi I get two bonuses from the medium skill.
Then two bonuses for assault skill to the assault and two bonuses to the logi through the logi skill.
All the bonuses are tied to the suits an just vary in effectiveness based on the skills level. Dust is not here yet but this system foundation was already in place in 1.7

Our bonuses are already suit tied so as I said his post makes no sense unless his "current system" was introduced in 1.8 and it's completely new because this has never been the system before 1.8.

Edit oops I meant medium suit skill not "mediums"
I'm typing from a phone sorry.