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Bormir1r WarRavens League of Infamy 119	Posted - 2014.02.27 17:49:00 - [1] - Quote I remember after the update when Aim Assist came out, with **** loads of bugs and glitches with matchmaking and etc., TTK when up dramatically, but afterwards CCP decreased Aim Assist ( I think), how strong is Aim assist right now? I am not a fan of aim assist because when it is coupled with OP weapons, this game becomes ridiculous, and who want's to play a ridiculous game? I understand that Aim Assist is necessary, and this is definitely true, but to the point where it can be better than players who have real skill, it's just not right. Thoughts? "One does not simply" look for a scout, it looks for you.
Dauth Jenkins Ultramarine Corp 95	Posted - 2014.02.27 17:51:00 - [2] - Quote AA in this game is there to provide balance between keyboard/mouse users and controller users Sees prototompers... Sees blueberries start to snipe... Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...
Bormir1r WarRavens League of Infamy 119	Posted - 2014.02.27 17:54:00 - [3] - Quote Dauth Jenkins wrote: AA in this game is there to provide balance between keyboard/mouse users and controller users But even when you're a controller player, It's harder to combat people who don't have as much skill and just utilize the AA to their advantage without any small penalties... "One does not simply" look for a scout, it looks for you.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2107	Posted - 2014.02.27 17:57:00 - [4] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: Dauth Jenkins wrote: AA in this game is there to provide balance between keyboard/mouse users and controller users But even when you're a controller player, It's harder to combat people who don't have as much skill and just utilize the AA to their advantage without any small penalties... This makes no sense, it sounds like you are saying, as a controller user, AA makes going up against players with less skill than you? If you have equal tools but better skill how does AA make things less fair in that situation?
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1735	Posted - 2014.02.27 18:00:00 - [5] - Quote Aim assist is partially compensating for lag based hit detection problems, where a target isn't where they appear to be on your client. Try shooting with a mouse sometime...you'll be shocked at how often you'll get blue shield flashes and do no damage. But if I pick up the DS3 and aim assist kicks in, then I never miss. Hardly what I'd call balance.
Galthur Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 392	Posted - 2014.02.27 18:07:00 - [6] - Quote Aim assist is to assist a lot of the worse players. You think the bluedots are bad? Imagine them without it. What do you post in the war room when CCP is gone and PC is locked? 14:44 [CCP]Logibro: Not Anime.
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 157	Posted - 2014.02.27 18:32:00 - [7] - Quote Aim assist is still incredibly strong at the moment, though it's no where near what it was when 1.4 hit. It won't quite glue your reticul to a target like it could in 1.4, but it still attracts plenty well and makes hipfire a breeze. I play with it off, so it's a lot easier to notice when it's on during alt making/biomassing. I've heard it's still stronger in games like Battlefield, though I can't say anything on that angle as I always turned it off there too and haven't yet played BF4. It really does just need to be toned down again or removed outright, but I suppose that would probably create a huge amount of QQ and CCP would just bring it right back. Sometimes I miss never seeing tanks in a battle... then I remember the mystical flying soma, and I can't help but smile.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1864	Posted - 2014.02.27 18:34:00 - [8] - Quote Galthur wrote: Aim assist is to assist a lot of the worse players. You think the bluedots are bad? Imagine them without it. We did just fine prior to 1.4. Am assist is a ridiculous crutch in Dust, and only works for hitscan weapons. Those weapons are the most OP and EZ mode to begin with, and what has resulted is a dramatic shortening of ttk, thus removing the efficacy of large portions of the game content and tactics. AA should be removed. Hitscan weapons need removed, or reworked for much less dps.
Derpty Derp It's All Gone Derp 41	Posted - 2014.02.27 18:36:00 - [9] - Quote Haven't had AA on in over a year, but hipfire is stupidly accurate anyway... Have you ever jumped around like a shotgunning scout, but with a HMG? lol
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 522	Posted - 2014.02.27 18:42:00 - [10] - Quote The truth is, the AA whining is from players who arent very good at console FPS games, who used to be able to win soley based on massive ehp and dps advantages by better gear. Dust used to have terrible hit detection combined with bad aiming mechanics. This meant even GOOD fps players would struggle to hit their target consistantly. So better gear mattered more because it was harder to overcome gear with skill. 50% more health and 20% more DPS has a bigger impact when fights are longer because nobody can land a shot. Now that a 50% ehp and 20% dps advantage doesnt guarentee a win, these players are convinced that lesser skilled players are killing them. When the reality is, prior to AA, skill gap mattered less than SP and gear. They long for the old days when they could throw down a triage nano and dance on it, tanking 3 players shooting at them and somehow come away thinking they won via their own "elite gun game".

PARKOUR PRACTIONER Reapers' Assailant 882	Posted - 2014.02.27 20:46:00 - [11] - Quote I turned off my AA, I didn't even know what it was until recently. So glad I turned it off, my aim still sucks but at least I don't feel like the bullets are 'sticky' like the game is aiming for me. AA is a crutch people. Just sayin'. Psycho Scout Cool McCoolNess- Incubus Speedy McFaster- Logi?
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 540	Posted - 2014.02.27 20:49:00 - [12] - Quote lol @ anyone complaining about AA. It isn't THAT strong....and this is coming from someone that primarily plays with a mouse & keyboard....Leadfoot
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 772	Posted - 2014.02.27 20:53:00 - [13] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: Dauth Jenkins wrote: AA in this game is there to provide balance between keyboard/mouse users and controller users But even when you're a controller player, It's harder to combat people who don't have as much skill and just utilize the AA to their advantage without any small penalties... How do you know they don't have as much skill or more than you? Do you just assume you are better than everyone else so that if you die it must be aim assist? Sorry dude but I find that to be pretty arrogant, granted if you are playing against me its the truth I'm a scrub but there are lots of people out there who are as good if not better than you. Oh and you mean to say TTK (Time To Kill) went down not up, CCP is bringing it back up some with rifle damage decreases, or so they hope. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1867	Posted - 2014.02.27 21:44:00 - [14] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: The truth is, the AA whining is from players who arent very good at console FPS games, who used to be able to win soley based on massive ehp and dps advantages by better gear. Dust used to have terrible hit detection combined with bad aiming mechanics. This meant even GOOD fps players would struggle to hit their target consistantly. So better gear mattered more because it was harder to overcome gear with skill. 50% more health and 20% more DPS has a bigger impact when fights are longer because nobody can land a shot. Now that a 50% ehp and 20% dps advantage doesnt guarentee a win, these players are convinced that lesser skilled players are killing them. When the reality is, prior to AA, skill gap mattered less than SP and gear. They long for the old days when they could throw down a triage nano and dance on it, tanking 3 players shooting at them and somehow come away thinking they won via their own "elite gun game". Ad hominem ftl. Considering that hit detection has improved, the logical conclusion is that AA is even less important to" even the playing field ". The truth is, of course, that AA actually damages the game considerably when combined with the already ez mode hitscan mechanic.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1687	Posted - 2014.02.27 21:45:00 - [15] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: I remember after the update when Aim Assist came out, with **** loads of bugs and glitches with matchmaking and etc., TTK when up dramatically, but afterwards CCP decreased Aim Assist ( I think), how strong is Aim assist right now? I am not a fan of aim assist because when it is coupled with OP weapons, this game becomes ridiculous, and who want's to play a ridiculous game? I understand that Aim Assist is necessary, and this is definitely true, but to the point where it can be better than players who have real skill, it's just not right. Thoughts? I apologize for not having a link for you, but the last clear statement i saw on AA by CCP was that it had not been adjusted from it's initial implmentation. That was at least 3 months ago, iirc. Best gauge of strength of AA is to fight with teammates in FW, since AA does not apply to teammates. But pay attention while your're having it out with your teamates, because you'll see just how good or bad the raw DS3 aiming mechanics are - let us know how they compare to other shooters with AA turned off. I support SP rollover.
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4295	Posted - 2014.02.27 21:50:00 - [16] - Quote The people who don't want AA (like me) are mostly good players who utilized advanced strafing methods vs people who would stand still for no reason. They called us out for "dancing" AA is bad for the game. GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 5 \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2083	Posted - 2014.02.27 21:54:00 - [17] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: I remember after the update when Aim Assist came out, with **** loads of bugs and glitches with matchmaking and etc., TTK when up dramatically, but afterwards CCP decreased Aim Assist ( I think), how strong is Aim assist right now? I am not a fan of aim assist because when it is coupled with OP weapons, this game becomes ridiculous, and who want's to play a ridiculous game? I understand that Aim Assist is necessary, and this is definitely true, but to the point where it can be better than players who have real skill, it's just not right. Thoughts? Ill put this way, Aim Assist is no stronger/weaker than day 1. As much has been confirmed by CCP. The reason TTK became so low is Hit detection. Hit Detection was fixed in the same patch that Aim Assist was, also in the same patch general control improvements were made. This unique set of events paired with players who had played with terrible controls for upward of 7months were suddenly given Aim Assist, we effectively all became Billy the Kid overnight. What has happened is that over time people have adjusted to the assistance that Aim Assist has given them, this appearing as if Aim Assist has been tonned down. This is also a good opportunity to re-iterate that Aim Assist is not responsible for curving or warping bullets, Aim Assist is not applied to the hitscan that emit from the weapon, but to the direction the gun is facing, once a shot is fired Aim Assist is no longer acting upon it. If you wish me to give more information on the curving bullets phenomenon or how you yourself can test its relation to Aim Assist, please do not hesitate to ask. Combat Engineer in training. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1395	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:05:00 - [18] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: The truth is, the AA whining is from players who arent very good at console FPS games, who used to be able to win soley based on massive ehp and dps advantages by better gear. Dust used to have terrible hit detection combined with bad aiming mechanics. This meant even GOOD fps players would struggle to hit their target consistantly. So better gear mattered more because it was harder to overcome gear with skill. 50% more health and 20% more DPS has a bigger impact when fights are longer because nobody can land a shot. Now that a 50% ehp and 20% dps advantage doesnt guarentee a win, these players are convinced that lesser skilled players are killing them. When the reality is, prior to AA, skill gap mattered less than SP and gear. They long for the old days when they could throw down a triage nano and dance on it, tanking 3 players shooting at them and somehow come away thinking they won via their own "elite gun game". Your Absolutely full of ****..... Aim Assist makes this game purely about skill points and gear.... My AA Locks, Your AA locks, I have X amount of health you have X amount of health.. X amount of Sp, gear and weapon... = Winner everytime.... There is no skill in these engagements there is no player error or excelling that dictates these engagements... It's purely a computer generated tracking and bullet magnetism + Skill points and gear... The ability for a new player to DUST to jump on with FPS ability and be competitive against even the best Proto suits out there like "Doug Ugly"(top of killboards in Chromosome) where completely competitive... with purely player skill. The whole Proto-stomping thing was barely even mentioned by players./.. EVERY player ran the best they could at all times... Because it was a competitive game... NO ONE DANCED AWAY BULLETS THAT WAS POOR AIMING.... NO ONE DANCED AWAY FROM LordChaos, 13ear... They died... and freaking quick...... No Aim assist... Aiming in Chromosome with a DS3 without AA was amazing... EVEn new to FPS game friends where downloading the game and sniping with a gamepad... and getting good scores... Scouts move fast... Medium suits slightly slower and fat suits slow... Then we can account player skills in Biotics... and the modules they use... Almost every player on the battlefield is moving at a different speed... if you people think a Computer generated program should track all of those players indiscriminately as if there was no difficulty aiming from one target to the next? Then this game is truly hopeless...
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2083	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:10:00 - [19] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Bones McGavins wrote: The truth is, the AA whining is from players who arent very good at console FPS games, who used to be able to win soley based on massive ehp and dps advantages by better gear. Dust used to have terrible hit detection combined with bad aiming mechanics. This meant even GOOD fps players would struggle to hit their target consistantly. So better gear mattered more because it was harder to overcome gear with skill. 50% more health and 20% more DPS has a bigger impact when fights are longer because nobody can land a shot. Now that a 50% ehp and 20% dps advantage doesnt guarentee a win, these players are convinced that lesser skilled players are killing them. When the reality is, prior to AA, skill gap mattered less than SP and gear. They long for the old days when they could throw down a triage nano and dance on it, tanking 3 players shooting at them and somehow come away thinking they won via their own "elite gun game". Your Absolutely full of ****..... Aim Assist makes this game purely about skill points and gear.... My AA Locks, Your AA locks, I have X amount of health you have X amount of health.. X amount of Sp, gear and weapon... = Winner everytime.... There is no skill in these engagements there is no player error or excelling that dictates these engagements... It's purely a computer generated tracking and bullet magnetism + Skill points and gear... The ability for a new player to DUST to jump on with FPS ability and be competitive against even the best Proto suits out there like "Doug Ugly"(top of killboards in Chromosome) where completely competitive... with purely player skill. The whole Proto-stomping thing was barely even mentioned by players./.. EVERY player ran the best they could at all times... Because it was a competitive game... NO ONE DANCED AWAY BULLETS THAT WAS POOR AIMING.... NO ONE DANCED AWAY FROM LordChaos, 13ear... They died... and freaking quick...... No Aim assist... Aiming in Chromosome with a DS3 without AA was amazing... EVEn new to FPS game friends where downloading the game and sniping with a gamepad... and getting good scores... Scouts move fast... Medium suits slightly slower and fat suits slow... Then we can account player skills in Biotics... and the modules they use... Almost every player on the battlefield is moving at a different speed... if you people think a Computer generated program should track all of those players indiscriminately as if there was no difficulty aiming from one target to the next? Then this game is truly hopeless... So why do you think the MD was FOTM in 1.3? Combat Engineer in training. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1395	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:11:00 - [20] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Bethhy wrote: Bones McGavins wrote: The truth is, the AA whining is from players who arent very good at console FPS games, who used to be able to win soley based on massive ehp and dps advantages by better gear. Dust used to have terrible hit detection combined with bad aiming mechanics. This meant even GOOD fps players would struggle to hit their target consistantly. So better gear mattered more because it was harder to overcome gear with skill. 50% more health and 20% more DPS has a bigger impact when fights are longer because nobody can land a shot. Now that a 50% ehp and 20% dps advantage doesnt guarentee a win, these players are convinced that lesser skilled players are killing them. When the reality is, prior to AA, skill gap mattered less than SP and gear. They long for the old days when they could throw down a triage nano and dance on it, tanking 3 players shooting at them and somehow come away thinking they won via their own "elite gun game". Your Absolutely full of ****..... Aim Assist makes this game purely about skill points and gear.... My AA Locks, Your AA locks, I have X amount of health you have X amount of health.. X amount of Sp, gear and weapon... = Winner everytime.... There is no skill in these engagements there is no player error or excelling that dictates these engagements... It's purely a computer generated tracking and bullet magnetism + Skill points and gear... The ability for a new player to DUST to jump on with FPS ability and be competitive against even the best Proto suits out there like "Doug Ugly"(top of killboards in Chromosome) where completely competitive... with purely player skill. The whole Proto-stomping thing was barely even mentioned by players./.. EVERY player ran the best they could at all times... Because it was a competitive game... NO ONE DANCED AWAY BULLETS THAT WAS POOR AIMING.... NO ONE DANCED AWAY FROM LordChaos, 13ear... They died... and freaking quick...... No Aim assist... Aiming in Chromosome with a DS3 without AA was amazing... EVEn new to FPS game friends where downloading the game and sniping with a gamepad... and getting good scores... Scouts move fast... Medium suits slightly slower and fat suits slow... Then we can account player skills in Biotics... and the modules they use... Almost every player on the battlefield is moving at a different speed... if you people think a Computer generated program should track all of those players indiscriminately as if there was no difficulty aiming from one target to the next? Then this game is truly hopeless... So why do you think the MD was FOTM in 1.3? The MD was strong or used by a lot... For almost ALL OF DUST's existence..... Why was the Tactical AR FOTM???? it required people to aim with a little dot? no aim assist and a DS3? and that was in Uprising 1.0 when aiming was at it's worse? Silly silly question.... MD has always been a strong weapon in DUST and extremely strong... There isn't any gun in this game that has been nerfed or buffed more then the mass driver.

Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2084	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:29:00 - [21] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Bethhy wrote: Bones McGavins wrote: The truth is, the AA whining is from players who arent very good at console FPS games, who used to be able to win soley based on massive ehp and dps advantages by better gear. Dust used to have terrible hit detection combined with bad aiming mechanics. This meant even GOOD fps players would struggle to hit their target consistantly. So better gear mattered more because it was harder to overcome gear with skill. 50% more health and 20% more DPS has a bigger impact when fights are longer because nobody can land a shot. Now that a 50% ehp and 20% dps advantage doesnt guarentee a win, these players are convinced that lesser skilled players are killing them. When the reality is, prior to AA, skill gap mattered less than SP and gear. They long for the old days when they could throw down a triage nano and dance on it, tanking 3 players shooting at them and somehow come away thinking they won via their own "elite gun game". Your Absolutely full of ****..... Aim Assist makes this game purely about skill points and gear.... My AA Locks, Your AA locks, I have X amount of health you have X amount of health.. X amount of Sp, gear and weapon... = Winner everytime.... There is no skill in these engagements there is no player error or excelling that dictates these engagements... It's purely a computer generated tracking and bullet magnetism + Skill points and gear... The ability for a new player to DUST to jump on with FPS ability and be competitive against even the best Proto suits out there like "Doug Ugly"(top of killboards in Chromosome) where completely competitive... with purely player skill. The whole Proto-stomping thing was barely even mentioned by players./.. EVERY player ran the best they could at all times... Because it was a competitive game... NO ONE DANCED AWAY BULLETS THAT WAS POOR AIMING.... NO ONE DANCED AWAY FROM LordChaos, 13ear... They died... and freaking quick...... No Aim assist... Aiming in Chromosome with a DS3 without AA was amazing... EVEn new to FPS game friends where downloading the game and sniping with a gamepad... and getting good scores... Scouts move fast... Medium suits slightly slower and fat suits slow... Then we can account player skills in Biotics... and the modules they use... Almost every player on the battlefield is moving at a different speed... if you people think a Computer generated program should track all of those players indiscriminately as if there was no difficulty aiming from one target to the next? Then this game is truly hopeless... So why do you think the MD was FOTM in 1.3? The MD was strong or used by a lot... For almost ALL OF DUST's existence..... Why was the Tactical AR FOTM???? it required people to aim with a little dot? no aim assist and a DS3? and that was in Uprising 1.0 when aiming was at it's worse? Silly silly question.... MD has always been a strong weapon in DUST and extremely strong... There isn't any gun in this game that has been nerfed or buffed more then the mass driver. The tac was FOTM because its a semi-auto it had the best hit detection, then it was the MD because it got its hit detection fixed in 1.3, then it was Assault Rifles and Laser Rifles because their hit detection was fixed. The MD was so hated because it "required no skill to aim" yet in 1.4 despite the fact neither the MD or the Assault Rifle had different stats or dispersion Assault Rifle went through the rough, yet the HMG an Aim Assisted weapon wasn't liked. Yet when they hotfixed its hit detection and dispersion it suddenly becomes widely used. So just incase you missed it, the correlation between the FOTM between 1.0-1.6 was who had the best hit detection. Combat Engineer in training. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1688	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:29:00 - [22] - Quote Imo aiming in DUST is essentially exactly the same as it was before AA, nothing about the raw DS3 aiming mechanics has changed, it's just that the AA was slathered over the top of the same old aiming mechanics. Pehaps a parameter or two was fiddled with. I think DUST's DS3 aiming mechanics are implemented via Unreal 3's basic toolkit. Again, imo those raw DS3 mechanics are not quality mechanics. Many of the reviews of DUST say the same thing. First thing i want to see Rouge address, actually. I support SP rollover.
Galthur Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 394	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:29:00 - [23] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Galthur wrote: Aim assist is to assist a lot of the worse players. You think the bluedots are bad? Imagine them without it. We did just fine prior to 1.4. Am assist is a ridiculous crutch in Dust, and only works for hitscan weapons. Those weapons are the most OP and EZ mode to begin with, and what has resulted is a dramatic shortening of ttk, thus removing the efficacy of large portions of the game content and tactics. AA should be removed. Hitscan weapons need removed, or reworked for much less dps. You mean when I could easily get 40-60 kills every match in bpo gear, that was all fine for those who couldn't aim (most bluedots/reddots). What do you post in the war room when CCP is gone and PC is locked? 14:44 [CCP]Logibro: Not Anime.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2111	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:43:00 - [24] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: The people who don't want AA (like me) are mostly good players who utilized advanced strafing methods vs people who would stand still for no reason. They called us out for "dancing" AA is bad for the game. Unless you are a heavy or complex plate stacker a lot of hitting isn't attributed to AA. Some players have tested it and have suggested that movement faster than 4.5 m/s breaks AA as in you can escape the tracking. So it might help with the first, shot but not the rest. Also, why do your so called 'advanced strafing methods' get to be the 'elite way to play' in reality, nobody would just dance in front of bullets. Like others have said, AA is about managing the difference between direct and indirect input.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2111	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:46:00 - [25] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Imo aiming in DUST is essentially exactly the same as it was before AA, nothing about the raw DS3 aiming mechanics has changed, it's just that the AA was slathered over the top of the same old aiming mechanics. Pehaps a parameter or two was fiddled with. I think DUST's DS3 aiming mechanics are implemented via Unreal 3's basic toolkit. Again, imo those raw DS3 mechanics are not quality mechanics. Many of the reviews of DUST say the same thing. First thing i want to see Rouge address, actually. There is no 'raw ds3 input'. You cannot do raw input with a stick. Your guy's starting points are wrong.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2084	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:50:00 - [26] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Imo aiming in DUST is essentially exactly the same as it was before AA, nothing about the raw DS3 aiming mechanics has changed, it's just that the AA was slathered over the top of the same old aiming mechanics. Pehaps a parameter or two was fiddled with. I think DUST's DS3 aiming mechanics are implemented via Unreal 3's basic toolkit. Again, imo those raw DS3 mechanics are not quality mechanics. Many of the reviews of DUST say the same thing. First thing i want to see Rouge address, actually. There is no 'raw ds3 input'. You cannot do raw input with a stick. Your guy's starting points are wrong. He doesn't mean raw digital input, he is talking about the fact that the BASE aiming controlls with or without Aim Assist is the same. Combat Engineer in training. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1738	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:55:00 - [27] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Imo aiming in DUST is essentially exactly the same as it was before AA, nothing about the raw DS3 aiming mechanics has changed, it's just that the AA was slathered over the top of the same old aiming mechanics. Pehaps a parameter or two was fiddled with. I think DUST's DS3 aiming mechanics are implemented via Unreal 3's basic toolkit. Again, imo those raw DS3 mechanics are not quality mechanics. Many of the reviews of DUST say the same thing. First thing i want to see Rouge address, actually. Clearly you're forgetting the month or so after AA was introduced, where mouse aiming was actually a lot worse than it is now. AA has also been toned down several times since it was introduced. Initially it was very aggressive in taking control away from you, causing many people to complain that it was switching targets on them just before they killed people. AA is actually much more reasonable now than it was, most of the time. It's still a little wonky on the combat and rail rifles but it isn't nearly as obnoxious as it used to be. I'd be totally fine with it remaining if TTK was increased so that people have time to react. That alone would remove the I Win Button aspect from AA. Also if they unfuck the mouse so that your shots hit the spot you're aiming at and your reticule doesn't slip and slide all over the place. The mouse is in such a bad state right now that for most weapons there's no point in trying to ADS. You're better off just hipfiring most of the time. Fixing those two things would probably kill most of the complaints about AA.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 526	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:55:00 - [28] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Bones McGavins wrote: The truth is, the AA whining is from players who arent very good at console FPS games, who used to be able to win soley based on massive ehp and dps advantages by better gear. Dust used to have terrible hit detection combined with bad aiming mechanics. This meant even GOOD fps players would struggle to hit their target consistantly. So better gear mattered more because it was harder to overcome gear with skill. 50% more health and 20% more DPS has a bigger impact when fights are longer because nobody can land a shot. Now that a 50% ehp and 20% dps advantage doesnt guarentee a win, these players are convinced that lesser skilled players are killing them. When the reality is, prior to AA, skill gap mattered less than SP and gear. They long for the old days when they could throw down a triage nano and dance on it, tanking 3 players shooting at them and somehow come away thinking they won via their own "elite gun game". Your Absolutely full of sh!t..... Aim Assist makes this game purely about skill points and gear.... My AA Locks, Your AA locks, I have X amount of health you have X amount of health.. X amount of Sp, gear and weapon... = Winner everytime.... There is no skill in these engagements there is no player error or excelling that dictates these engagements... It's purely a computer generated tracking and bullet magnetism + Skill points and gear... The ability for a new player to DUST to jump on with FPS ability and be competitive against even the best Proto suits out there like "Doug Ugly"(top of killboards in Chromosome) happened all day during Chromosome.. New players with ability completely competitive... with purely player skill. The whole Proto-stomping thing was barely even mentioned by players./.. EVERY player ran the best they could at all times... Because it was a competitive game... NO ONE DANCED AWAY BULLETS.... THAT WAS POOR AIMING.... NO ONE DANCED AWAY FROM LordChaos, 13ear... They died... and freaking quick...... No Aim assist... With a gamepad. Aiming in Chromosome with a DS3 without AA was amazing... EVEn new to FPS game friends where downloading the game and sniping with a gamepad... and getting good scores... Scouts move fast... Medium suits slightly slower and fat suits slow... Then we can account player skills in Biotics... and the modules they use... Almost every player on the battlefield is moving at a different speed... if you people think a Computer generated program should track all of those players indiscriminately as if there was no difficulty aiming from one target to the next? Then this game is truly hopeless... Ill keep it quick AA isnt that strong, aim still matters. Strafing is still a must or you lose Even if it was that strong head shots would still tip the balance to the better skilled player Even if the above two things weren't true aiming is like 10% of FPS skills. If you are having civil war style duels then you should expect to die because that is terrible and anyone relying on superior aim alone is bad at FpS games. In conclusion the guy that killed you did so because he owned you and not because of AA.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1688	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:58:00 - [29] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Imo aiming in DUST is essentially exactly the same as it was before AA, nothing about the raw DS3 aiming mechanics has changed, it's just that the AA was slathered over the top of the same old aiming mechanics. Pehaps a parameter or two was fiddled with. I think DUST's DS3 aiming mechanics are implemented via Unreal 3's basic toolkit. Again, imo those raw DS3 mechanics are not quality mechanics. Many of the reviews of DUST say the same thing. First thing i want to see Rouge address, actually. There is no 'raw ds3 input'. You cannot do raw input with a stick. Your guy's starting points are wrong. Raw as applied to the DS3 means Aim Assist turned off. I support SP rollover.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1397	Posted - 2014.02.27 23:01:00 - [30] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: The tac was FOTM because its a semi-auto it had the best hit detection, then it was the MD because it got its hit detection fixed in 1.3, then it was Assault Rifles and Laser Rifles because their hit detection was fixed. The MD was so hated because it "required no skill to aim" yet in 1.4 despite the fact neither the MD or the Assault Rifle had different stats or dispersion Assault Rifle went through the rough, yet the HMG an Aim Assisted weapon wasn't liked. Yet when they hotfixed its hit detection and dispersion it suddenly becomes widely used. So just incase you missed it, the correlation between the FOTM between 1.0-1.6 was who had the best hit detection. The TAC wasn't FOTM because it was semi auto? it always was....??? It was FOTM because it had longer range then the Assault rifle... And right after CCP removing the Sharpshooter skill increasing ranges on weapons.. The assault rifle didn't even fire across a football field accurately... Just as many used the Assault rifle during this time aswell... LordChaos used a blindfire with no assault rifle skils what so ever and this was the time he was taking over 1st on the leaderboards... Alot of people used the normal duvolle Assault.. TAC had no better or worse Hit detection then the ASCR or the normal assault rifle... pretty much all false... for the reason it was FOTM... The MD got buffed and nerffed 3 times before 1.4... So which time did they improve the HD? because MD always had good HD from Uprising launch... As multiple friends used that gun exclusively... Tell me when the LR came back in power because of HD fixed because I never saw one used competitively Since Mr.Turtlez in Corp battles... Or when Chromosome had the glitch on Viziam that would do over 2k damage in half a second with a headshot.... killing even the beefiest heavies in half a second... This hotfixed hit detection changing the entire weapon landscape in DUST your trying to claim is hilarious.... Because it has never happened like this in DUST... Where they magically hotfixed HD in the middle of a patch cycle and made new guns FOTM.... Other then them actually changing weapon statistics as in damage... Must be nice living in your fictional land where you just make up what happened in DUST... so it fits your point. Your the same person EVERYONE argued with for a month that bullet magnetism was in DUST.... You even said that Bullet magnetism is an impossibility in games... ForFS...

Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2084	Posted - 2014.02.27 23:03:00 - [31] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Imo aiming in DUST is essentially exactly the same as it was before AA, nothing about the raw DS3 aiming mechanics has changed, it's just that the AA was slathered over the top of the same old aiming mechanics. Pehaps a parameter or two was fiddled with. I think DUST's DS3 aiming mechanics are implemented via Unreal 3's basic toolkit. Again, imo those raw DS3 mechanics are not quality mechanics. Many of the reviews of DUST say the same thing. First thing i want to see Rouge address, actually. Clearly you're forgetting the month or so after AA was introduced, where mouse aiming was actually a lot worse than it is now. AA has also been toned down several times since it was introduced. Initially it was very aggressive in taking control away from you, causing many people to complain that it was switching targets on them just before they killed people. AA is actually much more reasonable now than it was, most of the time. It's still a little wonky on the combat and rail rifles but it isn't nearly as obnoxious as it used to be. I'd be totally fine with it remaining if TTK was increased so that people have time to react. That alone would remove the I Win Button aspect from AA. Also if they unfuck the mouse so that your shots hit the spot you're aiming at and your reticule doesn't slip and slide all over the place. The mouse is in such a bad state right now that for most weapons there's no point in trying to ADS. You're better off just hipfiring most of the time. Fixing those two things would probably kill most of the complaints about AA. There have been no changes to Aim Assist since 1.4 was deployed. Combat Engineer in training. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
DootDoot Da Short Buss Legacy Rising 198	Posted - 2014.02.27 23:05:00 - [32] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Scouts move fast... Medium suits slightly slower and fat suits slow... Then we can account player skills in Biotics... and the modules they use... Almost every player on the battlefield is moving at a different speed... if you people think a Computer generated program should track all of those players indiscriminately as if there was no difficulty aiming from one target to the next? Then this game is truly hopeless... QFT...... Make sure you people read this. This is what DUST is.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2085	Posted - 2014.02.27 23:14:00 - [33] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: The tac was FOTM because its a semi-auto it had the best hit detection, then it was the MD because it got its hit detection fixed in 1.3, then it was Assault Rifles and Laser Rifles because their hit detection was fixed. The MD was so hated because it "required no skill to aim" yet in 1.4 despite the fact neither the MD or the Assault Rifle had different stats or dispersion Assault Rifle went through the rough, yet the HMG an Aim Assisted weapon wasn't liked. Yet when they hotfixed its hit detection and dispersion it suddenly becomes widely used. So just incase you missed it, the correlation between the FOTM between 1.0-1.6 was who had the best hit detection. The TAC wasn't FOTM because it was semi auto? it always was....??? It was FOTM because it had longer range then the Assault rifle... And right after CCP removing the Sharpshooter skill increasing ranges on weapons.. The assault rifle didn't even fire across a football field accurately... Just as many used the Assault rifle during this time aswell... LordChaos used a blindfire with no assault rifle skils what so ever and this was the time he was taking over 1st on the leaderboards... Alot of people used the normal duvolle Assault.. TAC had no better or worse Hit detection then the ASCR or the normal assault rifle... pretty much all false... for the reason it was FOTM... The MD got buffed and nerffed 3 times before 1.4... So which time did they improve the HD? because MD always had good HD from Uprising launch... As multiple friends used that gun exclusively... Tell me when the LR came back in power because of HD fixed because I never saw one used competitively Since Mr.Turtlez in Corp battles... Or when Chromosome had the glitch on Viziam that would do over 2k damage in half a second with a headshot.... killing even the beefiest heavies in half a second... This hotfixed hit detection changing the entire weapon landscape in DUST your trying to claim is hilarious.... Because it has never happened like this in DUST... Where they magically hotfixed HD in the middle of a patch cycle and made new guns FOTM.... Other then them actually changing weapon statistics as in damage... Must be nice living in your fictional land where you just make up what happened in DUST... so it fits your point. Your the same person EVERYONE argued with for a month that bullet magnetism was in DUST.... You even said that Bullet magnetism is an impossibility in games... ForFS... And shot for its advertised DPS, unlike the poor HD Assault Rifle, I can go into the software theory behind it but I doubt you care. The Mass Driver had absolutely terrible hit detection at the beginning of uprising, I used it, MD slugs had a high tendencacy to phase through enemy players and the floor, often resulting in a dud. When it did explode the blast took so long to calculate that by the time damage was calculated your enemy had moved out of the blast radius while you had moved into it. The MD hit detection was so terrible even though it was my only weapon I punched more people to death with the butt of the damn thing. They fixed and slightly increased radius https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1008988#post1008988 Or do you not like hard evidence? Yes Im the guy YOU argued with, I said bullet magnetism as you believe it doesn't exsist big difference. Combat Engineer in training. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2085	Posted - 2014.02.27 23:16:00 - [34] - Quote DootDoot wrote: Bethhy wrote: Scouts move fast... Medium suits slightly slower and fat suits slow... Then we can account player skills in Biotics... and the modules they use... Almost every player on the battlefield is moving at a different speed... if you people think a Computer generated program should track all of those players indiscriminately as if there was no difficulty aiming from one target to the next? Then this game is truly hopeless... QFT...... Make sure you people read this. This is what DUST is. Beren Hurin wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: The people who don't want AA (like me) are mostly good players who utilized advanced strafing methods vs people who would stand still for no reason. They called us out for "dancing" AA is bad for the game. Unless you are a heavy or complex plate stacker a lot of hitting isn't attributed to AA. Some players have tested it and have suggested that movement faster than 4.5 m/s breaks AA as in you can escape the tracking. So it might help with the first, shot but not the rest. Also, why do your so called 'advanced strafing methods' get to be the 'elite way to play' in reality, nobody would just dance in front of bullets. Like others have said, AA is about managing the difference between direct and indirect input. Combat Engineer in training. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1397	Posted - 2014.02.27 23:26:00 - [35] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: And shot for its advertised DPS, unlike the poor HD Assault Rifle, I can go into the software theory behind it but I doubt you care. The Mass Driver had absolutely terrible hit detection at the beginning of uprising, I used it, MD slugs had a high tendencacy to phase through enemy players and the floor, often resulting in a dud. When it did explode the blast took so long to calculate that by the time damage was calculated your enemy had moved out of the blast radius while you had moved into it. The MD hit detection was so terrible even though it was my only weapon I punched more people to death with the butt of the damn thing. They fixed and slightly increased radius https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1008988#post1008988 Yet again bullshit..... The link is for Uprising1.2.... 1.0 had a fine MD... the 1.1 changes hurt the HD... they where tweaking the MD in 1.1 to balance it and broke it... and it got a buff in 1.2 with blast radius... even though everyone said it was fine..... Which made it too strong in 1.3... You may say the TAC AR was inherently better... But just as many people where pulling out a Duvolle in PC in 1.0, ASCR, MD, flaylocke... The HD wasn't what made the TAC AR FOTM at ALL.... It was the RANGE...... CCP removed sharpshooter... There was dead limits on every guns range... Meaning the bullets that still hit right now for no damage a long distance away? DIDN't EXIST... the bullets would disappear at the max range.. Like the FG does now... Remember the laser just stopping dead in mid air? Range is why the TAC AR hit FOTM status... Assault rifles where barely able to kill at 50 meters even with 80% headshots... they later buffed the range of the AR and allowed all weapon fire to travel further....
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2085	Posted - 2014.02.27 23:31:00 - [36] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: And shot for its advertised DPS, unlike the poor HD Assault Rifle, I can go into the software theory behind it but I doubt you care. The Mass Driver had absolutely terrible hit detection at the beginning of uprising, I used it, MD slugs had a high tendencacy to phase through enemy players and the floor, often resulting in a dud. When it did explode the blast took so long to calculate that by the time damage was calculated your enemy had moved out of the blast radius while you had moved into it. The MD hit detection was so terrible even though it was my only weapon I punched more people to death with the butt of the damn thing. They fixed and slightly increased radius https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1008988#post1008988 Yet again bullshit..... The link is for Uprising1.2.... 1.0 had a fine MD... the 1.1 changes hurt the HD... they where tweaking the MD in 1.1 to balance it and broke it... and it got a buff in 1.2 with blast radius... even though everyone said it was fine..... Which made it too strong in 1.3... You may say the TAC AR was inherently better... But just as many people where pulling out a Duvolle in PC in 1.0, ASCR, MD, flaylocke... The HD wasn't what made the TAC AR FOTM at ALL.... It was the RANGE...... CCP removed sharpshooter... There was dead limits on every guns range... Meaning the bullets that still hit right now for no damage a long distance away? DIDN't EXIST... the bullets would disappear at the max range.. Like the FG does now... Remember the laser just stopping dead in mid air? Range is why the TAC AR hit FOTM status... Assault rifles where barely able to kill at 50 meters even with 80% headshots... they later buffed the range of the AR and allowed all weapon fire to travel further.... The MD did not have FINE HD in 1.0, you didn't even use it, however yes it was fixed in 1.2 and the flaylock was released shortly after, I have never proffesed to a perfect memory, but the fact still remains, HD is the link, you are just to blind to see. Combat Engineer in training. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
DootDoot Da Short Buss Legacy Rising 199	Posted - 2014.02.27 23:40:00 - [37] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: DootDoot wrote: Bethhy wrote: Scouts move fast... Medium suits slightly slower and fat suits slow... Then we can account player skills in Biotics... and the modules they use... Almost every player on the battlefield is moving at a different speed... if you people think a Computer generated program should track all of those players indiscriminately as if there was no difficulty aiming from one target to the next? Then this game is truly hopeless... QFT...... Make sure you people read this. This is what DUST is. Beren Hurin wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: The people who don't want AA (like me) are mostly good players who utilized advanced strafing methods vs people who would stand still for no reason. They called us out for "dancing" AA is bad for the game. Unless you are a heavy or complex plate stacker a lot of hitting isn't attributed to AA. Some players have tested it and have suggested that movement faster than 4.5 m/s breaks AA as in you can escape the tracking. So it might help with the first, shot but not the rest. Also, why do your so called 'advanced strafing methods' get to be the 'elite way to play' in reality, nobody would just dance in front of bullets. Like others have said, AA is about managing the difference between direct and indirect input. Wow this guy is dense... If a scout is moving at 10 meters a second... What person RIGHT now could track that? Let alone something moving at 10 meters a second in CQC range? People watch marksmanship competitions with firearms. We know reality and how hard it is to hit moving targets consistently, The best in the world couldn't do that with confidence and consistency. What makes you think you should here? The mere thought that tracking a 8 meter-12 meter a second moving target should be somewhat easy to connect bullets with is mind boggling.. The speeds we move in DUST, with the fact that we are Immortal clone soldiers without fear for our own life or injury. Then Yes 8-12 meter a second players will be moving while engaging making them a much harder target to acquire aim on. If you aim somewhere and connect a bullet... And They have enough health, speed and reaction to then move out of your reticle.. So you have to reacquire aim while landing a few less bullets .... Even if it is one less bullet then you took the advantage and tactics should be clear.. How is this a hard concept for your CoD players who want your target to stand still while you exchange fire to grasp?
DootDoot Da Short Buss Legacy Rising 199	Posted - 2014.02.27 23:47:00 - [38] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Bethhy wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: And shot for its advertised DPS, unlike the poor HD Assault Rifle, I can go into the software theory behind it but I doubt you care. The Mass Driver had absolutely terrible hit detection at the beginning of uprising, I used it, MD slugs had a high tendencacy to phase through enemy players and the floor, often resulting in a dud. When it did explode the blast took so long to calculate that by the time damage was calculated your enemy had moved out of the blast radius while you had moved into it. The MD hit detection was so terrible even though it was my only weapon I punched more people to death with the butt of the damn thing. They fixed and slightly increased radius https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1008988#post1008988 Yet again bullshit..... The link is for Uprising1.2.... 1.0 had a fine MD... the 1.1 changes hurt the HD... they where tweaking the MD in 1.1 to balance it and broke it... and it got a buff in 1.2 with blast radius... even though everyone said it was fine..... Which made it too strong in 1.3... You may say the TAC AR was inherently better... But just as many people where pulling out a Duvolle in PC in 1.0, ASCR, MD, flaylocke... The HD wasn't what made the TAC AR FOTM at ALL.... It was the RANGE...... CCP removed sharpshooter... There was dead limits on every guns range... Meaning the bullets that still hit right now for no damage a long distance away? DIDN't EXIST... the bullets would disappear at the max range.. Like the FG does now... Remember the laser just stopping dead in mid air? Range is why the TAC AR hit FOTM status... Assault rifles where barely able to kill at 50 meters even with 80% headshots... they later buffed the range of the AR and allowed all weapon fire to travel further.... The MD did not have FINE HD in 1.0, you didn't even use it, however yes it was fixed in 1.2 and the flaylock was released shortly after, I have never proffesed to a perfect memory, but the fact still remains, HD is the link, you are just to blind to see. Dude you gotta shuddup... Flaylock was released after 1.2????? you should stop arguing things you don;t know about. it's pretty clear. The link you posted was from July.... that is 1.2....
Bormir1r WarRavens League of Infamy 122	Posted - 2014.02.27 23:52:00 - [39] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: The people who don't want AA (like me) are mostly good players who utilized advanced strafing methods vs people who would stand still for no reason. They called us out for "dancing" AA is bad for the game. ^This. "One does not simply" look for a scout, it looks for you.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1399	Posted - 2014.02.27 23:53:00 - [40] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: The MD did not have FINE HD in 1.0, you didn't even use it, however yes it was fixed in 1.2 and the flaylock was released shortly after, I have never proffesed to a perfect memory, but the fact still remains, HD is the link, you are just to blind to see. I had nothing but Massholes I played with in 1.0 with Eon... Everyday in PC I would play with KA4D3RT that has been a full time masshole his entire existence in DUST.... Even right now he uses them exclusively.... When i was doing PC with Not guilty then against all of SI, WTF, GAC.... Trust me they showed us how to get onto roofs with dropships raining down Massdrivers and forge guns... I have played DUST competitively since I started... and I have an amazing memory... I know what the MD was... And i KNOW it had just as good as Hit detection as the Flaylock in Uprising 1.0. This is fact... Flaylock was still better IMO but that wasn't because of HD...

Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2086	Posted - 2014.02.27 23:56:00 - [41] - Quote Ok then lets try this in Vet language CCP have looked at Aim Assist CCP have not changed Aim Assist even after looking at it. CCP a company who hires people who know how to make games are happy with it. HTFU like the rest of us, you are not obligied to use it, I don't use, my brother uses it, I still win everyday of the week with mlt against his adv. If you actually strafed instead belly dancing in the middle of the street you may find Aim Assist or not your much harder to hit. Thank you goodnight. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1868	Posted - 2014.02.27 23:57:00 - [42] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Bethhy wrote: Bones McGavins wrote: The truth is, the AA whining is from players who arent very good at console FPS games, who used to be able to win soley based on massive ehp and dps advantages by better gear. Dust used to have terrible hit detection combined with bad aiming mechanics. This meant even GOOD fps players would struggle to hit their target consistantly. So better gear mattered more because it was harder to overcome gear with skill. 50% more health and 20% more DPS has a bigger impact when fights are longer because nobody can land a shot. Now that a 50% ehp and 20% dps advantage doesnt guarentee a win, these players are convinced that lesser skilled players are killing them. When the reality is, prior to AA, skill gap mattered less than SP and gear. They long for the old days when they could throw down a triage nano and dance on it, tanking 3 players shooting at them and somehow come away thinking they won via their own "elite gun game". Your Absolutely full of ****..... Aim Assist makes this game purely about skill points and gear.... My AA Locks, Your AA locks, I have X amount of health you have X amount of health.. X amount of Sp, gear and weapon... = Winner everytime.... There is no skill in these engagements there is no player error or excelling that dictates these engagements... It's purely a computer generated tracking and bullet magnetism + Skill points and gear... The ability for a new player to DUST to jump on with FPS ability and be competitive against even the best Proto suits out there like "Doug Ugly"(top of killboards in Chromosome) where completely competitive... with purely player skill. The whole Proto-stomping thing was barely even mentioned by players./.. EVERY player ran the best they could at all times... Because it was a competitive game... NO ONE DANCED AWAY BULLETS THAT WAS POOR AIMING.... NO ONE DANCED AWAY FROM LordChaos, 13ear... They died... and freaking quick...... No Aim assist... Aiming in Chromosome with a DS3 without AA was amazing... EVEn new to FPS game friends where downloading the game and sniping with a gamepad... and getting good scores... Scouts move fast... Medium suits slightly slower and fat suits slow... Then we can account player skills in Biotics... and the modules they use... Almost every player on the battlefield is moving at a different speed... if you people think a Computer generated program should track all of those players indiscriminately as if there was no difficulty aiming from one target to the next? Then this game is truly hopeless... So why do you think the MD was FOTM in 1.3? MD has never been FOTM. AR has always been the flavor of the game.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1401	Posted - 2014.02.28 00:07:00 - [43] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Ok then lets try this in Vet language CCP have looked at Aim Assist CCP have not changed Aim Assist even after looking at it. CCP a company who hires people who know how to make games are happy with it. HTFU like the rest of us, you are not obligied to use it, I don't use, my brother uses it, I still win everyday of the week with mlt against his adv. If you actually strafed instead belly dancing in the middle of the street you may find Aim Assist or not your much harder to hit. Thank you goodnight. Let me enlighten you with some more memory and those icky facts...... CCP has implemented Aim assist 3 separate times in Beta... Everytime it got removed by player outrage... In Beta... Specially the closed versions almost EVERY player was a FPS enthusiast or had good FPS credentials... Almost EVERY players wanted this removed in Beta... and CCP removed it. and kept it off... Until the Executive Producer Quit CCP.... And the Developers released 1.3,1.4,1.5,1.6 Without any Executive producer guiding them(Arguably the worst patches in DUST's existence).. The Aim assist got implemented without any thought or even feedback from the CPM's or the community... Was barely mentioned by a 6 word line in the patch notes... This is a feature they ninja'd in even though the most successful times of DUST... Chromosome.. almost everyone on the forums passionate about DUST didnt want it. And guess what? WE STILL DON'T.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 532	Posted - 2014.02.28 00:22:00 - [44] - Quote There was a lot of discussion on these forums about how explosions had issues. The MD was the center of those discussions. CCP commented on it and released fixes for it. The issue was with the explosion acting more like a plane than a sphere. So unless the explosion was on the same z axis it wouldn't hit right. This probably wouldn't impact HD on roof camping since you'd be shooting down at folks on the ground and not have to worry about it
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 775	Posted - 2014.02.28 00:32:00 - [45] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Ok then lets try this in Vet language CCP have looked at Aim Assist CCP have not changed Aim Assist even after looking at it. CCP a company who hires people who know how to make games are happy with it. HTFU like the rest of us, you are not obligied to use it, I don't use, my brother uses it, I still win everyday of the week with mlt against his adv. If you actually strafed instead belly dancing in the middle of the street you may find Aim Assist or not your much harder to hit. Thank you goodnight. Let me enlighten you with some more memory and those icky facts...... CCP has implemented Aim assist 3 separate times in Beta... Everytime it got removed by player outrage... In Beta... Specially the closed versions almost EVERY player was a FPS enthusiast or had good FPS credentials... Almost EVERY players wanted this removed in Beta... and CCP removed it. and kept it off... Until the Executive Producer Quit CCP.... And the Developers released 1.3,1.4,1.5,1.6 Without any Executive producer guiding them(Arguably the worst patches in DUST's existence).. The Aim assist got implemented without any thought or even feedback from the CPM's or the community... Was barely mentioned by a 6 word line in the patch notes... This is a feature they ninja'd in even though the most successful times of DUST... Chromosome.. almost everyone on the forums passionate about DUST didnt want it. And guess what? WE STILL DON'T. A company that develops to satisfy the couple hundred people who think they are FPS gods and are "really passionate for the game" won't be very successful. One of the negatives just about every review of Dust come Uprising 1.0 complained about the aiming and movement. They have fixed both to some extent. Personally I maintain about the same KDR now as I always have in this game (slightly positive) so I guess it doesn't really affect me, but I'm not so selfish as to have opinions based solely on what is best for me. Or maybe I should say I am selfish enough to want the game to thrive and grow so I can play it for many years and get my investment's worth. Oh and though you might not have said it (I think it was one of the DJINNs), moving in tight little circles while rapid firing the Tac AR was what made players elite at Uprising's elite, that is not skill or tactics it was taking advantage of BS hit detection. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 700	Posted - 2014.02.28 00:38:00 - [46] - Quote What I don't understand about AA is why not all weapons get it. Forges, Plasma cannon, shotguns, lasers, md etc don't have AA, why? AA has been plastered on to hit scan weapons but nothing else, creating disparity between weapons. Rifles are the best weapons in the game in part because of AA, while other weapons are left behind. If AA is there to make shots easier to hit give it to all weapons.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 775	Posted - 2014.02.28 00:41:00 - [47] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: What I don't understand about AA is why not all weapons get it. Forges, Plasma cannon, shotguns, lasers, md etc don't have AA, why? AA has been plastered on to hit scan weapons but nothing else, creating disparity between weapons. Rifles are the best weapons in the game in part because of AA, while other weapons are left behind. If AA is there to make shots easier to hit give it to all weapons. You wouldn't want aim assist on an MD or flaylock as putting the round directly on the target with a slower moving projectile is very hard to do. Plus you have to play the arc. But I am curious as to who told you it was not on those weapons? AA is something that you toggle on or off. I had never heard it was only on for some weapons and not others. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1402	Posted - 2014.02.28 00:43:00 - [48] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Bethhy wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Ok then lets try this in Vet language CCP have looked at Aim Assist CCP have not changed Aim Assist even after looking at it. CCP a company who hires people who know how to make games are happy with it. HTFU like the rest of us, you are not obligied to use it, I don't use, my brother uses it, I still win everyday of the week with mlt against his adv. If you actually strafed instead belly dancing in the middle of the street you may find Aim Assist or not your much harder to hit. Thank you goodnight. Let me enlighten you with some more memory and those icky facts...... CCP has implemented Aim assist 3 separate times in Beta... Everytime it got removed by player outrage... In Beta... Specially the closed versions almost EVERY player was a FPS enthusiast or had good FPS credentials... Almost EVERY players wanted this removed in Beta... and CCP removed it. and kept it off... Until the Executive Producer Quit CCP.... And the Developers released 1.3,1.4,1.5,1.6 Without any Executive producer guiding them(Arguably the worst patches in DUST's existence).. The Aim assist got implemented without any thought or even feedback from the CPM's or the community... Was barely mentioned by a 6 word line in the patch notes... This is a feature they ninja'd in even though the most successful times of DUST... Chromosome.. almost everyone on the forums passionate about DUST didnt want it. And guess what? WE STILL DON'T. A company that develops to satisfy the couple hundred people who think they are FPS gods and are "really passionate for the game" won't be very successful. One of the negatives just about every review of Dust come Uprising 1.0 complained about the aiming and movement. They have fixed both to some extent. Personally I maintain about the same KDR now as I always have in this game (slightly positive) so I guess it doesn't really affect me, but I'm not so selfish as to have opinions based solely on what is best for me. Or maybe I should say I am selfish enough to want the game to thrive and grow so I can play it for many years and get my investment's worth. Oh and though you might not have said it (I think it was one of the DJINNs), moving in tight little circles while rapid firing the Tac AR was what made players elite at Uprising's elite, that is not skill or tactics it was taking advantage of BS hit detection. WTF are you talking about? EVERY review that has been done recently AGAIN on DUST 514... complains about the SAME AIMING AND MOVEMENT issues... AFTER Aim assist, wasn't this supposed to make it all better? Because it doesn't reflect that in a single review. CCP isn't catering to FPS gods? your hilarious.... This was Chromosome... over 15k players on the servers... The most enjoyable DUST other then maybe replication... DUST was 3x more successful without Aim assist... We can look at the server numbers... DUST had more players playing without aim assist as a fact. And High server density numbers... meaning servers always had a lot of people, Because DUST WAS FUN still... player peaks where 500-1k players... Not double server population... like now.... people play for an hour and log... If you moved in a tight circle against a fast firing TAC AR user? in Uprising 1.0? you where dead in a second.. Fact. Two TAC AR users CQC all trying to continuously stay out of each others reticle? you guys could have a toe to toe dual for two clips sometiems ... Edge of your seat butt clenching gun fights. What everyone loved about DUST. Oh and Aim Assist on average has increased The elite players KD/R .... because we will abuse any tool CCP gives us. And that is a massive tool.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2092	Posted - 2014.02.28 00:44:00 - [49] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: What I don't understand about AA is why not all weapons get it. Forges, Plasma cannon, shotguns, lasers, md etc don't have AA, why? AA has been plastered on to hit scan weapons but nothing else, creating disparity between weapons. Rifles are the best weapons in the game in part because of AA, while other weapons are left behind. If AA is there to make shots easier to hit give it to all weapons. Lasers do have it, not sure about shotguns, think they do, not sure, but having Aim Assist on MD and Plc would be horrific, it just wouldn't work, they would suffet not gain for it. It be like having Aim Assist on grenades. No no no, I want to lob my grenade at where he will be, not at his face! Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
ratamaq doc Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 452	Posted - 2014.02.28 01:03:00 - [50] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: The truth is, the AA whining is from players who arent very good at console FPS games, who used to be able to win soley based on massive ehp and dps advantages by better gear. Dust used to have terrible hit detection combined with bad aiming mechanics. This meant even GOOD fps players would struggle to hit their target consistantly. So better gear mattered more because it was harder to overcome gear with skill. 50% more health and 20% more DPS has a bigger impact when fights are longer because nobody can land a shot. Now that a 50% ehp and 20% dps advantage doesnt guarentee a win, these players are convinced that lesser skilled players are killing them. When the reality is, prior to AA, skill gap mattered less than SP and gear. They long for the old days when they could throw down a triage nano and dance on it, tanking 3 players shooting at them and somehow come away thinking they won via their own "elite gun game". This should be reiterated as a larger part of the conversation. The aim mechanics have improved, the ability to independently adjust the hip fire vs ADS for me has been one of the most welcome features in this game. I did two extensive videos on the problems I saw with aim mechanics that got Dev attention. IMO AA and Hit detection are compensating for those short comings. As long as it is there, I will use it. If it is removed, It will not make much difference to me. I need not validate to myself how good at moving two sticks with my thumbs are anymore. There is way more to whether you live or die here than that. Best advice? You want live? worry less about AA and Hit Detection and more about not getting shot in the first place. YouTube 30D Recruiting

Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 775	Posted - 2014.02.28 01:05:00 - [51] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: Bethhy wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Ok then lets try this in Vet language CCP have looked at Aim Assist CCP have not changed Aim Assist even after looking at it. CCP a company who hires people who know how to make games are happy with it. HTFU like the rest of us, you are not obligied to use it, I don't use, my brother uses it, I still win everyday of the week with mlt against his adv. If you actually strafed instead belly dancing in the middle of the street you may find Aim Assist or not your much harder to hit. Thank you goodnight. Let me enlighten you with some more memory and those icky facts...... CCP has implemented Aim assist 3 separate times in Beta... Everytime it got removed by player outrage... In Beta... Specially the closed versions almost EVERY player was a FPS enthusiast or had good FPS credentials... Almost EVERY players wanted this removed in Beta... and CCP removed it. and kept it off... Until the Executive Producer Quit CCP.... And the Developers released 1.3,1.4,1.5,1.6 Without any Executive producer guiding them(Arguably the worst patches in DUST's existence).. The Aim assist got implemented without any thought or even feedback from the CPM's or the community... Was barely mentioned by a 6 word line in the patch notes... This is a feature they ninja'd in even though the most successful times of DUST... Chromosome.. almost everyone on the forums passionate about DUST didnt want it. And guess what? WE STILL DON'T. A company that develops to satisfy the couple hundred people who think they are FPS gods and are "really passionate for the game" won't be very successful. One of the negatives just about every review of Dust come Uprising 1.0 complained about the aiming and movement. They have fixed both to some extent. Personally I maintain about the same KDR now as I always have in this game (slightly positive) so I guess it doesn't really affect me, but I'm not so selfish as to have opinions based solely on what is best for me. Or maybe I should say I am selfish enough to want the game to thrive and grow so I can play it for many years and get my investment's worth. Oh and though you might not have said it (I think it was one of the DJINNs), moving in tight little circles while rapid firing the Tac AR was what made players elite at Uprising's elite, that is not skill or tactics it was taking advantage of BS hit detection. WTF are you talking about? EVERY review that has been done recently AGAIN on DUST 514... complains about the SAME AIMING AND MOVEMENT issues... AFTER Aim assist, wasn't this supposed to make it all better? Because it doesn't reflect that in a single review. CCP isn't catering to FPS gods? your hilarious.... This was Chromosome... over 15k players on the servers... The most enjoyable DUST other then maybe replication... DUST was 3x more successful without Aim assist... We can look at the server numbers... DUST had more players playing without aim assist as a fact. And High server density numbers... meaning servers always had a lot of people, Because DUST WAS FUN still... player peaks where 500-1k players... Not double server population... like now.... people play for an hour and log... If you moved in a tight circle against a fast firing TAC AR user? in Uprising 1.0? you where dead in a second.. Fact. Two TAC AR users CQC all trying to continuously stay out of each others reticle? you guys could have a toe to toe dual for two clips sometiems ... Edge of your seat butt clenching gun fights. What everyone loved about DUST. Oh and Aim Assist on average has increased The elite players KD/R .... because we will abuse any tool CCP gives us. And that is a massive tool. I haven't seen a review for Dust since it became "launched" in May and like I said, I'm to much of a scrub to notice the aiming difference except that I don't touch my MD anymore, but I attribute that more to the overall strength of rifles than just AA. I am also not some Uprising rookie, I'm a closed beta vet too and while in many ways Chromosome was better, at the same time I think you are either looking back with rose colored lenses or the play style just suited you better, but I absolutely HATED how people could just circle strafe and be nigh unhittable. So you and your friends may have loved the "edge of your seat butt clenching gun fights" but I thought it was a lame (but I also never used the OP Tac AR). Lastly, attributing any decrease in player count strictly to AA is a complete logical fallacy as their are amny reasons play of this game fizzles. For me its because all the game has going for it is SP grind (I'm a sucker for getting that next weapon or armor in any game) and the folks I play with. Otherwise, except for the occasional content releases this game has been the same stale lobby shooter for a year and a half and is pretty boring. I can't blame people for not playing it, I still wonder why I bother playing it at all. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1689	Posted - 2014.02.28 02:38:00 - [52] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: There was a lot of discussion on these forums about how explosions had issues. The MD was the center of those discussions. CCP commented on it and released fixes for it. The issue was with the explosion acting more like a plane than a sphere. So unless the explosion was on the same z axis it wouldn't hit right. This probably wouldn't impact HD on roof camping since you'd be shooting down at folks on the ground and not have to worry about it This is the way i remember it too. Terrain, even small variations in terrain, was occluding the mass driver explosions. First CCP buffed damage, then CCP fixed the occlusion problem. This was when the MD became....problematic. lol CCP I support SP rollover.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 990	Posted - 2014.02.28 03:11:00 - [53] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: The people who don't want AA (like me) are mostly good players who utilized advanced strafing methods vs people who would stand still for no reason. They called us out for "dancing" AA is bad for the game. my minja feels your pain Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Zirzo Valcyn Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 157	Posted - 2014.02.28 03:49:00 - [54] - Quote i don't think AA is really that strong. i was playing around with rifles on some alts. i hate AA but it's not as strong as i once presumed. i ended up turning it off for 1, it feels kind of random and you start to expect it and then when it doesn't kick in you feel kind of cheated 2, it sux in CQC ffighting multiple enemies- if it choose the wrong one you will die. u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1689	Posted - 2014.02.28 03:53:00 - [55] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: Bones McGavins wrote: The truth is, the AA whining is from players who arent very good at console FPS games, who used to be able to win soley based on massive ehp and dps advantages by better gear. Dust used to have terrible hit detection combined with bad aiming mechanics. This meant even GOOD fps players would struggle to hit their target consistantly. So better gear mattered more because it was harder to overcome gear with skill. 50% more health and 20% more DPS has a bigger impact when fights are longer because nobody can land a shot. Now that a 50% ehp and 20% dps advantage doesnt guarentee a win, these players are convinced that lesser skilled players are killing them. When the reality is, prior to AA, skill gap mattered less than SP and gear. They long for the old days when they could throw down a triage nano and dance on it, tanking 3 players shooting at them and somehow come away thinking they won via their own "elite gun game". This should be reiterated as a larger part of the conversation. The aim mechanics have improved, the ability to independently adjust the hip fire vs ADS for me has been one of the most welcome features in this game. I did two extensive videos on the problems I saw with aim mechanics that got Dev attention. IMO AA and Hit detection are compensating for those short comings. As long as it is there, I will use it. If it is removed, It will not make much difference to me. I need not validate to myself how good at moving two sticks with my thumbs are anymore. There is way more to whether you live or die here than that. Best advice? You want live? worry less about AA and Hit Detection and more about not getting shot in the first place. Hey, ratamaq doc. Loved those videos, you taught me a lot, kinda provided a couple of new angles of approach in thinking about DUST's problematic aiming. Here's a good forensic breakdown of aim acceleration & smoothing, the author really does his research. Part 1 and Part 2. In part 2 i'm thinking Borderlands is prolly the closest to DUST in terms of using Unreal 3 tools and also their aim acceleration. I support SP rollover.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 990	Posted - 2014.02.28 04:05:00 - [56] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: What I don't understand about AA is why not all weapons get it. Forges, Plasma cannon, shotguns, lasers, md etc don't have AA, why? AA has been plastered on to hit scan weapons but nothing else, creating disparity between weapons. Rifles are the best weapons in the game in part because of AA, while other weapons are left behind. If AA is there to make shots easier to hit give it to all weapons. Lasers do have it, not sure about shotguns, think they do, not sure, but having Aim Assist on MD and Plc would be horrific, it just wouldn't work, they would suffet not gain for it. It be like having Aim Assist on grenades. No no no, I want to lob my grenade at where he will be, not at his face! Shotguns have as much AA as nova knives. They are OP. LOLOLOL Lasers have minimal AA, esp. when compared to the RR Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Zirzo Valcyn Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 157	Posted - 2014.02.28 04:16:00 - [57] - Quote does the MD still disrupt aim or does AA prevent that or was it removed? u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll.
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 1817	Posted - 2014.02.28 04:21:00 - [58] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Bethhy wrote: Bones McGavins wrote: The truth is, the AA whining is from players who arent very good at console FPS games, who used to be able to win soley based on massive ehp and dps advantages by better gear. Dust used to have terrible hit detection combined with bad aiming mechanics. This meant even GOOD fps players would struggle to hit their target consistantly. So better gear mattered more because it was harder to overcome gear with skill. 50% more health and 20% more DPS has a bigger impact when fights are longer because nobody can land a shot. Now that a 50% ehp and 20% dps advantage doesnt guarentee a win, these players are convinced that lesser skilled players are killing them. When the reality is, prior to AA, skill gap mattered less than SP and gear. They long for the old days when they could throw down a triage nano and dance on it, tanking 3 players shooting at them and somehow come away thinking they won via their own "elite gun game". Your Absolutely full of ***..... Aim Assist makes this game purely about skill points and gear.... My AA Locks, Your AA locks, I have X amount of health you have X amount of health.. X amount of Sp, gear and weapon... = Winner everytime.... There is no skill in these engagements there is no player error or excelling that dictates these engagements... It's purely a computer generated tracking and bullet magnetism + Skill points and gear... The ability for a new player to DUST to jump on with FPS ability and be competitive against even the best Proto suits out there like "Doug Ugly"(top of killboards in Chromosome) where completely competitive... with purely player skill. The whole Proto-stomping thing was barely even mentioned by players./.. EVERY player ran the best they could at all times... Because it was a competitive game... NO ONE DANCED AWAY BULLETS THAT WAS POOR AIMING.... NO ONE DANCED AWAY FROM LordChaos, 13ear... They died... and freaking quick...... No Aim assist... Aiming in Chromosome with a DS3 without AA was amazing... EVEn new to FPS game friends where downloading the game and sniping with a gamepad... and getting good scores... Scouts move fast... Medium suits slightly slower and fat suits slow... Then we can account player skills in Biotics... and the modules they use... Almost every player on the battlefield is moving at a different speed... if you people think a Computer generated program should track all of those players indiscriminately as if there was no difficulty aiming from one target to the next? Then this game is truly hopeless... So why do you think the MD was FOTM in 1.3? The MD was strong or used by a lot... For almost ALL OF DUST's existence..... Why was the Tactical AR FOTM???? it required people to aim with a little dot? no aim assist and a DS3? and that was in Uprising 1.0 when aiming was at it's worse? Silly silly question.... MD has always been a strong weapon in DUST and extremely strong... There isn't any gun in this game that has been nerfed or buffed more then the mass driver. Covers Mouth* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAGAHAHAGQGQGQGQGQHAHAH! The MD was very strong 1.3 and prior, and average thereafter. That was due to the map setup demanding CQC, and the complete AA absence made SMGs and ARsreally difficult to use in CQC (where they were supposed to be used) where the MD could be used as a explosive shotgun. AA makes CQC with hitscan weapons doable without the random flailing of bullets that used to incur in that scenario back before emplamentation. AA makes the aiming solid enough that people who wanted a semi-solid FPS without having to learn to aim for a few weeks. Honestly, let's just admit that the only guys complaining about AA are scouts who just can't escape from the aa. But since 1.8 will hit with cloaks that make the user invisible, therefore causing the shooter to shoot where he THINKS the scout is. Looking for a Interesting Character Name? Why Not Zoidberg?
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 1817	Posted - 2014.02.28 04:46:00 - [59] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: Bethhy wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Ok then lets try this in Vet language CCP have looked at Aim Assist CCP have not changed Aim Assist even after looking at it. CCP a company who hires people who know how to make games are happy with it. HTFU like the rest of us, you are not obligied to use it, I don't use, my brother uses it, I still win everyday of the week with mlt against his adv. If you actually strafed instead belly dancing in the middle of the street you may find Aim Assist or not your much harder to hit. Thank you goodnight. Let me enlighten you with some more memory and those icky facts...... CCP has implemented Aim assist 3 separate times in Beta... Everytime it got removed by player outrage... In Beta... Specially the closed versions almost EVERY player was a FPS enthusiast or had good FPS credentials... Almost EVERY players wanted this removed in Beta... and CCP removed it. and kept it off... Until the Executive Producer Quit CCP.... And the Developers released 1.3,1.4,1.5,1.6 Without any Executive producer guiding them(Arguably the worst patches in DUST's existence).. The Aim assist got implemented without any thought or even feedback from the CPM's or the community... Was barely mentioned by a 6 word line in the patch notes... This is a feature they ninja'd in even though the most successful times of DUST... Chromosome.. almost everyone on the forums passionate about DUST didnt want it. And guess what? WE STILL DON'T. A company that develops to satisfy the couple hundred people who think they are FPS gods and are "really passionate for the game" won't be very successful. One of the negatives just about every review of Dust come Uprising 1.0 complained about the aiming and movement. They have fixed both to some extent. Personally I maintain about the same KDR now as I always have in this game (slightly positive) so I guess it doesn't really affect me, but I'm not so selfish as to have opinions based solely on what is best for me. Or maybe I should say I am selfish enough to want the game to thrive and grow so I can play it for many years and get my investment's worth. Oh and though you might not have said it (I think it was one of the DJINNs), moving in tight little circles while rapid firing the Tac AR was what made players elite at Uprising's elite, that is not skill or tactics it was taking advantage of BS hit detection. WTF are you talking about? EVERY review that has been done recently AGAIN on DUST 514... complains about the SAME AIMING AND MOVEMENT issues... AFTER Aim assist, wasn't this supposed to make it all better? Because it doesn't reflect that in a single review. CCP isn't catering to FPS gods? your hilarious.... This was Chromosome... over 15k players on the servers... The most enjoyable DUST other then maybe replication... DUST was 3x more successful without Aim assist... We can look at the server numbers... DUST had more players playing without aim assist as a fact. And High server density numbers... meaning servers always had a lot of people, Because DUST WAS FUN still... player peaks where 500-1k players... Not double server population... like now.... people play for an hour and log... If you moved in a tight circle against a fast firing TAC AR user? in Uprising 1.0? you where dead in a second.. Fact. Two TAC AR users CQC all trying to continuously stay out of each others reticle? you guys could have a toe to toe dual for two clips sometiems ... Edge of your seat butt clenching gun fights. What everyone loved about DUST. Oh and Aim Assist on average has increased The elite players KD/R .... because we will abuse any tool CCP gives us. And that is a massive tool. If we are saying reviews, then you should remember that almost every review came out pre 1.4, which was when AA returned after being removed for rework in the original uprising release. So all the "Mushy aiming and movement" review complaints are from the time when AA doesn't exist. Which it can be safely assumed that the lack of AA resulted in the mushy feeling. Looking for a Interesting Character Name? Why Not Zoidberg?
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 1817	Posted - 2014.02.28 04:48:00 - [60] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Ok then lets try this in Vet language CCP have looked at Aim Assist CCP have not changed Aim Assist even after looking at it. CCP a company who hires people who know how to make games are happy with it. HTFU like the rest of us, you are not obligied to use it, I don't use, my brother uses it, I still win everyday of the week with mlt against his adv. If you actually strafed instead belly dancing in the middle of the street you may find Aim Assist or not your much harder to hit. Thank you goodnight. Absolutely. Looking for a Interesting Character Name? Why Not Zoidberg?

Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1689	Posted - 2014.02.28 06:07:00 - [61] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Bethhy wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: Bethhy wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Ok then lets try this in Vet language CCP have looked at Aim Assist CCP have not changed Aim Assist even after looking at it. CCP a company who hires people who know how to make games are happy with it. HTFU like the rest of us, you are not obligied to use it, I don't use, my brother uses it, I still win everyday of the week with mlt against his adv. If you actually strafed instead belly dancing in the middle of the street you may find Aim Assist or not your much harder to hit. Thank you goodnight. Let me enlighten you with some more memory and those icky facts...... CCP has implemented Aim assist 3 separate times in Beta... Everytime it got removed by player outrage... In Beta... Specially the closed versions almost EVERY player was a FPS enthusiast or had good FPS credentials... Almost EVERY players wanted this removed in Beta... and CCP removed it. and kept it off... Until the Executive Producer Quit CCP.... And the Developers released 1.3,1.4,1.5,1.6 Without any Executive producer guiding them(Arguably the worst patches in DUST's existence).. The Aim assist got implemented without any thought or even feedback from the CPM's or the community... Was barely mentioned by a 6 word line in the patch notes... This is a feature they ninja'd in even though the most successful times of DUST... Chromosome.. almost everyone on the forums passionate about DUST didnt want it. And guess what? WE STILL DON'T. A company that develops to satisfy the couple hundred people who think they are FPS gods and are "really passionate for the game" won't be very successful. One of the negatives just about every review of Dust come Uprising 1.0 complained about the aiming and movement. They have fixed both to some extent. Personally I maintain about the same KDR now as I always have in this game (slightly positive) so I guess it doesn't really affect me, but I'm not so selfish as to have opinions based solely on what is best for me. Or maybe I should say I am selfish enough to want the game to thrive and grow so I can play it for many years and get my investment's worth. Oh and though you might not have said it (I think it was one of the DJINNs), moving in tight little circles while rapid firing the Tac AR was what made players elite at Uprising's elite, that is not skill or tactics it was taking advantage of BS hit detection. WTF are you talking about? EVERY review that has been done recently AGAIN on DUST 514... complains about the SAME AIMING AND MOVEMENT issues... AFTER Aim assist, wasn't this supposed to make it all better? Because it doesn't reflect that in a single review. CCP isn't catering to FPS gods? your hilarious.... This was Chromosome... over 15k players on the servers... The most enjoyable DUST other then maybe replication... DUST was 3x more successful without Aim assist... We can look at the server numbers... DUST had more players playing without aim assist as a fact. And High server density numbers... meaning servers always had a lot of people, Because DUST WAS FUN still... player peaks where 500-1k players... Not double server population... like now.... people play for an hour and log... If you moved in a tight circle against a fast firing TAC AR user? in Uprising 1.0? you where dead in a second.. Fact. Two TAC AR users CQC all trying to continuously stay out of each others reticle? you guys could have a toe to toe dual for two clips sometiems ... Edge of your seat butt clenching gun fights. What everyone loved about DUST. Oh and Aim Assist on average has increased The elite players KD/R .... because we will abuse any tool CCP gives us. And that is a massive tool. If we are saying reviews, then you should remember that almost every review came out pre 1.4, which was when AA returned after being removed for rework in the original uprising release. So all the "Mushy aiming and movement" review complaints are from the time when AA doesn't exist. Which it can be safely assumed that the lack of AA resulted in the mushy feeling. So wrong. U cannot un-mushify aiming with AA. I support SP rollover.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 503	Posted - 2014.02.28 06:51:00 - [62] - Quote As a 100% full time Mass Driver scrub, I'm going to just go out and say that the Mass Driver was never overpowered. Ever. And if you think so you are wrong and should feel bad about being wrong. It was definitely the FOTM for a while, but FOTM doesn't always mean it's the best weapon. RR and CR come out and people conveniently forgot that the Scrambler Rifle can STILL insta-gib suits (just ask Tiberius)... The weapons metagame changes quickly and does not always pick the best candidate. The MD became popular because while it had weirdness of its own, and has always been one of the WEAKEST weapons in the game DPS-wise, it totally bypassed most of the supposedly terrible hit detection, but more importantly bypassed the need to precisely aim in close quarters, allowing the MD's applicable DPS to be greater than the AR's theoretical DPS. It was still totally useless against talented players, but there are rarely enough of those on the field to make a difference outside of PC. The MD became FOTM because most people can't aim, pure and simple. The introduction of Aim Assist (the package of Aim Friction, Target Tracking, and Bullet Magnetism) correlates very strongly with the downfall of the MD, because now there was another solution for people who can't aim. Of course, Aim Assist brought about the downfall of the great many other things that are much more important than my silly noob tube: -The importance of mobility in an engagement, as no matter how well you can out-juke your enemy, it isn't your enemy you are out-juking, it's an algorithm. -The diversity of fittings, as your speed doesn't matter too much, your damage is already incredibly high with the BASE weapons and NO SP, and your stacked plates and shields only buy you another 100 milliseconds of life. -The importance of player skill, as now every other person in the game can land a string of bullets nearly perfectly with a minimum of effort. There are people who celebrate the death of these things, and you should know that those people are the enemy of what this game could be, and a dear friend of what the game currently is. Those people don't want fledgling players to have a chance at equalizing the playing field with inferior equipment and superior ability. They don't want individual skill to matter. They don't want to aim. They don't want to learn how to aim. They want to automate out the Shooter part of a First Person Shooter because of some misguided expectations set by a series of misguided developers. They are playing the wrong genre, and nobody had told them yet.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 535	Posted - 2014.02.28 06:57:00 - [63] - Quote Except that every other hit game in that genre also has aim assist. Maybe it's the anti aim assist crowd that's playing the wrong wrong genre. You know, console fps games?
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 160	Posted - 2014.02.28 07:15:00 - [64] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Except that every other hit game in that genre also has aim assist. Maybe it's the anti aim assist crowd that's playing the wrong wrong genre. You know, console fps games? Killzone: Shadowfall doesn't have aim assist. Sometimes I miss never seeing tanks in a battle... then I remember the mystical flying soma, and I can't help but smile.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 535	Posted - 2014.02.28 15:06:00 - [65] - Quote Thats one game, and it isnt exactly a big boy. Nobody was waiting in line to get their copy of killzone. Heck, I love FPS games, own a PS4 and dont own killzone. KZ isnt a "hit" franchise. If Destiny comes out and doesnt have AA, maybe an actual shift in console FPS has occured. But I highly doubt that will happen. Heck, I guarentee Planetside 2, a PC shooter ported to PS4, will have AA. If anything, KZ is the exception that proves the rule.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1692	Posted - 2014.02.28 16:10:00 - [66] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Good stuff. The other mechanic that benefits the MD is the way explosions rock the target's aim. It's a good, immersive mechanic. Thinking about it, i'm hoping heavies blast damage resistance comes with a commesurate reduction of the explosion-rocking effect for heavies. The sloth mechanic is awful and should be replaced by a more sensible mechanic - i like a rattling of the target's aim depending on the nature of the incoming fire and the mass of their fitted suit, including plates. I support SP rollover.
Zirzo Valcyn Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 160	Posted - 2014.02.28 16:22:00 - [67] - Quote sloth mechanic is an all time low in experimental development. if you want that feature it should be a module, same with AA- should have been a highslot mod. someones loosing at LAN parties again or a dev got angry because his target was able to take cover from RR u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 506	Posted - 2014.02.28 19:30:00 - [68] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Thats one game, and it isnt exactly a big boy. Nobody was waiting in line to get their copy of killzone. Heck, I love FPS games, own a PS4 and dont own killzone. KZ isnt a "hit" franchise. If Destiny comes out and doesnt have AA, maybe an actual shift in console FPS has occured. But I highly doubt that will happen. Heck, I guarentee Planetside 2, a PC shooter ported to PS4, will have AA. If anything, KZ is the exception that proves the rule. This post both illustrates an appeal to tradition, and also an acknowledgment that tradition can change. Open up your mind. If Destiny could buck the trend, why not Dust? And why should trends hold so much sway over design decisions? Smartphones in the early 2000s were huge and bulky, had keyboards, required styluses, and featured tiny low-res pressure sensitive touch screens. Some even had desktop-like interfaces with mazes of menus. Then the iPhone came out, and suddenly every smart phone became svelte things that had huge capacative touch screens with no keyboards or styluses, and simple touch-oriented interfaces. They changed the industry by ignoring industry trends and instead just did what made sense to make a good product. What other developers are doing should not be followed dogmatically, especially when there are numerous valid reasons why AA is bad for FPS games in general, and bad for Dust specifically.
ratamaq doc Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 453	Posted - 2014.02.28 20:18:00 - [69] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Bones McGavins wrote: Thats one game, and it isnt exactly a big boy. Nobody was waiting in line to get their copy of killzone. Heck, I love FPS games, own a PS4 and dont own killzone. KZ isnt a "hit" franchise. If Destiny comes out and doesnt have AA, maybe an actual shift in console FPS has occured. But I highly doubt that will happen. Heck, I guarentee Planetside 2, a PC shooter ported to PS4, will have AA. If anything, KZ is the exception that proves the rule. This post both illustrates an appeal to tradition, and also an acknowledgment that tradition can change. Open up your mind. If Destiny could buck the trend, why not Dust? And why should trends hold so much sway over design decisions? Smartphones in the early 2000s were huge and bulky, had keyboards, required styluses, and featured tiny low-res pressure sensitive touch screens. Some even had desktop-like interfaces with mazes of menus. Then the iPhone came out, and suddenly every smart phone became svelte things that had huge capacative touch screens with no keyboards or styluses, and simple touch-oriented interfaces. They changed the industry by ignoring industry trends and instead just did what made sense to make a good product. What other developers are doing should not be followed dogmatically, especially when there are numerous valid reasons why AA is bad for FPS games in general, and bad for Dust specifically. I like the idea about taking your idea about ground breaking a step further. AA should be a choice. An ability for those that needed, but a method to reward those skilled enough not to need it. This is why I like the idea of it being a module. Choose. AA, Damage, Shield. YouTube 30D Recruiting
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1750	Posted - 2014.02.28 20:30:00 - [70] - Quote I like that...maybe it could be part of a new electronics upgrade slot. You get AA, or squad shared passive scan data or other hud upgrades Probably easier though to just put it in the high slot. Adding new slots would mean updating the CPU / PG for all suits which is a huge rabbit hole to go down. I especially like the idea of having to choose between max damage and better aiming.

KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 509	Posted - 2014.03.01 18:42:00 - [71] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: I like that...maybe it could be part of a new electronics upgrade slot. You get AA, or squad shared passive scan data or other hud upgrades Probably easier though to just put it in the high slot. Adding new slots would mean updating the CPU / PG for all suits which is a huge rabbit hole to go down. I especially like the idea of having to choose between max damage and better aiming. You miss the point. Better aiming should come via better player skill. Adding a module to provide aim assist isn't a trade off at all, it'll be the OP flavor of the month, and will waste precious dev hours to bring the module back into "balance", when the whole idea is fatally flawed to begin with.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 587	Posted - 2014.03.01 18:47:00 - [72] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: I like that...maybe it could be part of a new electronics upgrade slot. You get AA, or squad shared passive scan data or other hud upgrades Probably easier though to just put it in the high slot. Adding new slots would mean updating the CPU / PG for all suits which is a huge rabbit hole to go down. I especially like the idea of having to choose between max damage and better aiming. I like this idea quite a bit. Liked.


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