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Aim Assist and TTK

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Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2083	Posted - 2014.02.27 21:54:00 - [1] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: I remember after the update when Aim Assist came out, with **** loads of bugs and glitches with matchmaking and etc., TTK when up dramatically, but afterwards CCP decreased Aim Assist ( I think), how strong is Aim assist right now? I am not a fan of aim assist because when it is coupled with OP weapons, this game becomes ridiculous, and who want's to play a ridiculous game? I understand that Aim Assist is necessary, and this is definitely true, but to the point where it can be better than players who have real skill, it's just not right. Thoughts? Ill put this way, Aim Assist is no stronger/weaker than day 1. As much has been confirmed by CCP. The reason TTK became so low is Hit detection. Hit Detection was fixed in the same patch that Aim Assist was, also in the same patch general control improvements were made. This unique set of events paired with players who had played with terrible controls for upward of 7months were suddenly given Aim Assist, we effectively all became Billy the Kid overnight. What has happened is that over time people have adjusted to the assistance that Aim Assist has given them, this appearing as if Aim Assist has been tonned down. This is also a good opportunity to re-iterate that Aim Assist is not responsible for curving or warping bullets, Aim Assist is not applied to the hitscan that emit from the weapon, but to the direction the gun is facing, once a shot is fired Aim Assist is no longer acting upon it. If you wish me to give more information on the curving bullets phenomenon or how you yourself can test its relation to Aim Assist, please do not hesitate to ask. Combat Engineer in training. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2083	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:10:00 - [2] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Bones McGavins wrote: The truth is, the AA whining is from players who arent very good at console FPS games, who used to be able to win soley based on massive ehp and dps advantages by better gear. Dust used to have terrible hit detection combined with bad aiming mechanics. This meant even GOOD fps players would struggle to hit their target consistantly. So better gear mattered more because it was harder to overcome gear with skill. 50% more health and 20% more DPS has a bigger impact when fights are longer because nobody can land a shot. Now that a 50% ehp and 20% dps advantage doesnt guarentee a win, these players are convinced that lesser skilled players are killing them. When the reality is, prior to AA, skill gap mattered less than SP and gear. They long for the old days when they could throw down a triage nano and dance on it, tanking 3 players shooting at them and somehow come away thinking they won via their own "elite gun game". Your Absolutely full of ****..... Aim Assist makes this game purely about skill points and gear.... My AA Locks, Your AA locks, I have X amount of health you have X amount of health.. X amount of Sp, gear and weapon... = Winner everytime.... There is no skill in these engagements there is no player error or excelling that dictates these engagements... It's purely a computer generated tracking and bullet magnetism + Skill points and gear... The ability for a new player to DUST to jump on with FPS ability and be competitive against even the best Proto suits out there like "Doug Ugly"(top of killboards in Chromosome) where completely competitive... with purely player skill. The whole Proto-stomping thing was barely even mentioned by players./.. EVERY player ran the best they could at all times... Because it was a competitive game... NO ONE DANCED AWAY BULLETS THAT WAS POOR AIMING.... NO ONE DANCED AWAY FROM LordChaos, 13ear... They died... and freaking quick...... No Aim assist... Aiming in Chromosome with a DS3 without AA was amazing... EVEn new to FPS game friends where downloading the game and sniping with a gamepad... and getting good scores... Scouts move fast... Medium suits slightly slower and fat suits slow... Then we can account player skills in Biotics... and the modules they use... Almost every player on the battlefield is moving at a different speed... if you people think a Computer generated program should track all of those players indiscriminately as if there was no difficulty aiming from one target to the next? Then this game is truly hopeless... So why do you think the MD was FOTM in 1.3? Combat Engineer in training. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2084	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:29:00 - [3] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Bethhy wrote: Bones McGavins wrote: The truth is, the AA whining is from players who arent very good at console FPS games, who used to be able to win soley based on massive ehp and dps advantages by better gear. Dust used to have terrible hit detection combined with bad aiming mechanics. This meant even GOOD fps players would struggle to hit their target consistantly. So better gear mattered more because it was harder to overcome gear with skill. 50% more health and 20% more DPS has a bigger impact when fights are longer because nobody can land a shot. Now that a 50% ehp and 20% dps advantage doesnt guarentee a win, these players are convinced that lesser skilled players are killing them. When the reality is, prior to AA, skill gap mattered less than SP and gear. They long for the old days when they could throw down a triage nano and dance on it, tanking 3 players shooting at them and somehow come away thinking they won via their own "elite gun game". Your Absolutely full of ****..... Aim Assist makes this game purely about skill points and gear.... My AA Locks, Your AA locks, I have X amount of health you have X amount of health.. X amount of Sp, gear and weapon... = Winner everytime.... There is no skill in these engagements there is no player error or excelling that dictates these engagements... It's purely a computer generated tracking and bullet magnetism + Skill points and gear... The ability for a new player to DUST to jump on with FPS ability and be competitive against even the best Proto suits out there like "Doug Ugly"(top of killboards in Chromosome) where completely competitive... with purely player skill. The whole Proto-stomping thing was barely even mentioned by players./.. EVERY player ran the best they could at all times... Because it was a competitive game... NO ONE DANCED AWAY BULLETS THAT WAS POOR AIMING.... NO ONE DANCED AWAY FROM LordChaos, 13ear... They died... and freaking quick...... No Aim assist... Aiming in Chromosome with a DS3 without AA was amazing... EVEn new to FPS game friends where downloading the game and sniping with a gamepad... and getting good scores... Scouts move fast... Medium suits slightly slower and fat suits slow... Then we can account player skills in Biotics... and the modules they use... Almost every player on the battlefield is moving at a different speed... if you people think a Computer generated program should track all of those players indiscriminately as if there was no difficulty aiming from one target to the next? Then this game is truly hopeless... So why do you think the MD was FOTM in 1.3? The MD was strong or used by a lot... For almost ALL OF DUST's existence..... Why was the Tactical AR FOTM???? it required people to aim with a little dot? no aim assist and a DS3? and that was in Uprising 1.0 when aiming was at it's worse? Silly silly question.... MD has always been a strong weapon in DUST and extremely strong... There isn't any gun in this game that has been nerfed or buffed more then the mass driver. The tac was FOTM because its a semi-auto it had the best hit detection, then it was the MD because it got its hit detection fixed in 1.3, then it was Assault Rifles and Laser Rifles because their hit detection was fixed. The MD was so hated because it "required no skill to aim" yet in 1.4 despite the fact neither the MD or the Assault Rifle had different stats or dispersion Assault Rifle went through the rough, yet the HMG an Aim Assisted weapon wasn't liked. Yet when they hotfixed its hit detection and dispersion it suddenly becomes widely used. So just incase you missed it, the correlation between the FOTM between 1.0-1.6 was who had the best hit detection. Combat Engineer in training. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2084	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:50:00 - [4] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Imo aiming in DUST is essentially exactly the same as it was before AA, nothing about the raw DS3 aiming mechanics has changed, it's just that the AA was slathered over the top of the same old aiming mechanics. Pehaps a parameter or two was fiddled with. I think DUST's DS3 aiming mechanics are implemented via Unreal 3's basic toolkit. Again, imo those raw DS3 mechanics are not quality mechanics. Many of the reviews of DUST say the same thing. First thing i want to see Rouge address, actually. There is no 'raw ds3 input'. You cannot do raw input with a stick. Your guy's starting points are wrong. He doesn't mean raw digital input, he is talking about the fact that the BASE aiming controlls with or without Aim Assist is the same. Combat Engineer in training. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2084	Posted - 2014.02.27 23:03:00 - [5] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Imo aiming in DUST is essentially exactly the same as it was before AA, nothing about the raw DS3 aiming mechanics has changed, it's just that the AA was slathered over the top of the same old aiming mechanics. Pehaps a parameter or two was fiddled with. I think DUST's DS3 aiming mechanics are implemented via Unreal 3's basic toolkit. Again, imo those raw DS3 mechanics are not quality mechanics. Many of the reviews of DUST say the same thing. First thing i want to see Rouge address, actually. Clearly you're forgetting the month or so after AA was introduced, where mouse aiming was actually a lot worse than it is now. AA has also been toned down several times since it was introduced. Initially it was very aggressive in taking control away from you, causing many people to complain that it was switching targets on them just before they killed people. AA is actually much more reasonable now than it was, most of the time. It's still a little wonky on the combat and rail rifles but it isn't nearly as obnoxious as it used to be. I'd be totally fine with it remaining if TTK was increased so that people have time to react. That alone would remove the I Win Button aspect from AA. Also if they unfuck the mouse so that your shots hit the spot you're aiming at and your reticule doesn't slip and slide all over the place. The mouse is in such a bad state right now that for most weapons there's no point in trying to ADS. You're better off just hipfiring most of the time. Fixing those two things would probably kill most of the complaints about AA. There have been no changes to Aim Assist since 1.4 was deployed. Combat Engineer in training. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2085	Posted - 2014.02.27 23:14:00 - [6] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: The tac was FOTM because its a semi-auto it had the best hit detection, then it was the MD because it got its hit detection fixed in 1.3, then it was Assault Rifles and Laser Rifles because their hit detection was fixed. The MD was so hated because it "required no skill to aim" yet in 1.4 despite the fact neither the MD or the Assault Rifle had different stats or dispersion Assault Rifle went through the rough, yet the HMG an Aim Assisted weapon wasn't liked. Yet when they hotfixed its hit detection and dispersion it suddenly becomes widely used. So just incase you missed it, the correlation between the FOTM between 1.0-1.6 was who had the best hit detection. The TAC wasn't FOTM because it was semi auto? it always was....??? It was FOTM because it had longer range then the Assault rifle... And right after CCP removing the Sharpshooter skill increasing ranges on weapons.. The assault rifle didn't even fire across a football field accurately... Just as many used the Assault rifle during this time aswell... LordChaos used a blindfire with no assault rifle skils what so ever and this was the time he was taking over 1st on the leaderboards... Alot of people used the normal duvolle Assault.. TAC had no better or worse Hit detection then the ASCR or the normal assault rifle... pretty much all false... for the reason it was FOTM... The MD got buffed and nerffed 3 times before 1.4... So which time did they improve the HD? because MD always had good HD from Uprising launch... As multiple friends used that gun exclusively... Tell me when the LR came back in power because of HD fixed because I never saw one used competitively Since Mr.Turtlez in Corp battles... Or when Chromosome had the glitch on Viziam that would do over 2k damage in half a second with a headshot.... killing even the beefiest heavies in half a second... This hotfixed hit detection changing the entire weapon landscape in DUST your trying to claim is hilarious.... Because it has never happened like this in DUST... Where they magically hotfixed HD in the middle of a patch cycle and made new guns FOTM.... Other then them actually changing weapon statistics as in damage... Must be nice living in your fictional land where you just make up what happened in DUST... so it fits your point. Your the same person EVERYONE argued with for a month that bullet magnetism was in DUST.... You even said that Bullet magnetism is an impossibility in games... ForFS... And shot for its advertised DPS, unlike the poor HD Assault Rifle, I can go into the software theory behind it but I doubt you care. The Mass Driver had absolutely terrible hit detection at the beginning of uprising, I used it, MD slugs had a high tendencacy to phase through enemy players and the floor, often resulting in a dud. When it did explode the blast took so long to calculate that by the time damage was calculated your enemy had moved out of the blast radius while you had moved into it. The MD hit detection was so terrible even though it was my only weapon I punched more people to death with the butt of the damn thing. They fixed and slightly increased radius https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1008988#post1008988 Or do you not like hard evidence? Yes Im the guy YOU argued with, I said bullet magnetism as you believe it doesn't exsist big difference. Combat Engineer in training. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2085	Posted - 2014.02.27 23:16:00 - [7] - Quote DootDoot wrote: Bethhy wrote: Scouts move fast... Medium suits slightly slower and fat suits slow... Then we can account player skills in Biotics... and the modules they use... Almost every player on the battlefield is moving at a different speed... if you people think a Computer generated program should track all of those players indiscriminately as if there was no difficulty aiming from one target to the next? Then this game is truly hopeless... QFT...... Make sure you people read this. This is what DUST is. Beren Hurin wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: The people who don't want AA (like me) are mostly good players who utilized advanced strafing methods vs people who would stand still for no reason. They called us out for "dancing" AA is bad for the game. Unless you are a heavy or complex plate stacker a lot of hitting isn't attributed to AA. Some players have tested it and have suggested that movement faster than 4.5 m/s breaks AA as in you can escape the tracking. So it might help with the first, shot but not the rest. Also, why do your so called 'advanced strafing methods' get to be the 'elite way to play' in reality, nobody would just dance in front of bullets. Like others have said, AA is about managing the difference between direct and indirect input. Combat Engineer in training. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2085	Posted - 2014.02.27 23:31:00 - [8] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: And shot for its advertised DPS, unlike the poor HD Assault Rifle, I can go into the software theory behind it but I doubt you care. The Mass Driver had absolutely terrible hit detection at the beginning of uprising, I used it, MD slugs had a high tendencacy to phase through enemy players and the floor, often resulting in a dud. When it did explode the blast took so long to calculate that by the time damage was calculated your enemy had moved out of the blast radius while you had moved into it. The MD hit detection was so terrible even though it was my only weapon I punched more people to death with the butt of the damn thing. They fixed and slightly increased radius https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1008988#post1008988 Yet again bullshit..... The link is for Uprising1.2.... 1.0 had a fine MD... the 1.1 changes hurt the HD... they where tweaking the MD in 1.1 to balance it and broke it... and it got a buff in 1.2 with blast radius... even though everyone said it was fine..... Which made it too strong in 1.3... You may say the TAC AR was inherently better... But just as many people where pulling out a Duvolle in PC in 1.0, ASCR, MD, flaylocke... The HD wasn't what made the TAC AR FOTM at ALL.... It was the RANGE...... CCP removed sharpshooter... There was dead limits on every guns range... Meaning the bullets that still hit right now for no damage a long distance away? DIDN't EXIST... the bullets would disappear at the max range.. Like the FG does now... Remember the laser just stopping dead in mid air? Range is why the TAC AR hit FOTM status... Assault rifles where barely able to kill at 50 meters even with 80% headshots... they later buffed the range of the AR and allowed all weapon fire to travel further.... The MD did not have FINE HD in 1.0, you didn't even use it, however yes it was fixed in 1.2 and the flaylock was released shortly after, I have never proffesed to a perfect memory, but the fact still remains, HD is the link, you are just to blind to see. Combat Engineer in training. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2086	Posted - 2014.02.27 23:56:00 - [9] - Quote Ok then lets try this in Vet language CCP have looked at Aim Assist CCP have not changed Aim Assist even after looking at it. CCP a company who hires people who know how to make games are happy with it. HTFU like the rest of us, you are not obligied to use it, I don't use, my brother uses it, I still win everyday of the week with mlt against his adv. If you actually strafed instead belly dancing in the middle of the street you may find Aim Assist or not your much harder to hit. Thank you goodnight. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2092	Posted - 2014.02.28 00:44:00 - [10] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: What I don't understand about AA is why not all weapons get it. Forges, Plasma cannon, shotguns, lasers, md etc don't have AA, why? AA has been plastered on to hit scan weapons but nothing else, creating disparity between weapons. Rifles are the best weapons in the game in part because of AA, while other weapons are left behind. If AA is there to make shots easier to hit give it to all weapons. Lasers do have it, not sure about shotguns, think they do, not sure, but having Aim Assist on MD and Plc would be horrific, it just wouldn't work, they would suffet not gain for it. It be like having Aim Assist on grenades. No no no, I want to lob my grenade at where he will be, not at his face! Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.

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