DUST Search - Aim Assist and TTK

Meeko Fent wrote:

Bethhy wrote:

Zahle Undt wrote:

Bethhy wrote:

Monkey MAC wrote:

Ok then lets try this in Vet language
CCP have looked at Aim Assist
CCP have not changed Aim Assist even after looking at it.
CCP a company who hires people who know how to make games are happy with it.
HTFU like the rest of us, you are not obligied to use it, I don't use, my brother uses it, I still win everyday of the week with mlt against his adv.

If you actually strafed instead belly dancing in the middle of the street you may find Aim Assist or not your much harder to hit.
Thank you goodnight.

Let me enlighten you with some more memory and those icky facts......

CCP has implemented Aim assist 3 separate times in Beta... Everytime it got removed by player outrage... In Beta... Specially the closed versions almost EVERY player was a FPS enthusiast or had good FPS credentials...

Almost EVERY players wanted this removed in Beta... and CCP removed it. and kept it off... Until the Executive Producer Quit CCP....

And the Developers released 1.3,1.4,1.5,1.6 Without any Executive producer guiding them(Arguably the worst patches in DUST's existence).. The Aim assist got implemented without any thought or even feedback from the CPM's or the community... Was barely mentioned by a 6 word line in the patch notes...

This is a feature they ninja'd in even though the most successful times of DUST... Chromosome.. almost everyone on the forums passionate about DUST didnt want it. And guess what? WE STILL DON'T.

A company that develops to satisfy the couple hundred people who think they are FPS gods and are "really passionate for the game" won't be very successful. One of the negatives just about every review of Dust come Uprising 1.0 complained about the aiming and movement. They have fixed both to some extent. Personally I maintain about the same KDR now as I always have in this game (slightly positive) so I guess it doesn't really affect me, but I'm not so selfish as to have opinions based solely on what is best for me. Or maybe I should say I am selfish enough to want the game to thrive and grow so I can play it for many years and get my investment's worth.

Oh and though you might not have said it (I think it was one of the DJINNs), moving in tight little circles while rapid firing the Tac AR was what made players elite at Uprising's elite, that is not skill or tactics it was taking advantage of BS hit detection.

WTF are you talking about? EVERY review that has been done recently AGAIN on DUST 514... complains about the SAME AIMING AND MOVEMENT issues...

AFTER Aim assist, wasn't this supposed to make it all better? Because it doesn't reflect that in a single review.

CCP isn't catering to FPS gods? your hilarious.... This was Chromosome... over 15k players on the servers... The most enjoyable DUST other then maybe replication... DUST was 3x more successful without Aim assist...

We can look at the server numbers... DUST had more players playing without aim assist as a fact. And High server density numbers... meaning servers always had a lot of people, Because DUST WAS FUN still... player peaks where 500-1k players... Not double server population... like now.... people play for an hour and log...

If you moved in a tight circle against a fast firing TAC AR user? in Uprising 1.0? you where dead in a second.. Fact. Two TAC AR users CQC all trying to continuously stay out of each others reticle? you guys could have a toe to toe dual for two clips sometiems ... Edge of your seat butt clenching gun fights. What everyone loved about DUST.

Oh and Aim Assist on average has increased The elite players KD/R .... because we will abuse any tool CCP gives us. And that is a massive tool.

If we are saying reviews, then you should remember that almost every review came out pre 1.4, which was when AA returned after being removed for rework in the original uprising release.

So all the "Mushy aiming and movement" review complaints are from the time when AA doesn't exist. Which it can be safely assumed that the lack of AA resulted in the mushy feeling.

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Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1689	Posted - 2014.02.28 06:07:00 - [61] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Bethhy wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: Bethhy wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Ok then lets try this in Vet language CCP have looked at Aim Assist CCP have not changed Aim Assist even after looking at it. CCP a company who hires people who know how to make games are happy with it. HTFU like the rest of us, you are not obligied to use it, I don't use, my brother uses it, I still win everyday of the week with mlt against his adv. If you actually strafed instead belly dancing in the middle of the street you may find Aim Assist or not your much harder to hit. Thank you goodnight. Let me enlighten you with some more memory and those icky facts...... CCP has implemented Aim assist 3 separate times in Beta... Everytime it got removed by player outrage... In Beta... Specially the closed versions almost EVERY player was a FPS enthusiast or had good FPS credentials... Almost EVERY players wanted this removed in Beta... and CCP removed it. and kept it off... Until the Executive Producer Quit CCP.... And the Developers released 1.3,1.4,1.5,1.6 Without any Executive producer guiding them(Arguably the worst patches in DUST's existence).. The Aim assist got implemented without any thought or even feedback from the CPM's or the community... Was barely mentioned by a 6 word line in the patch notes... This is a feature they ninja'd in even though the most successful times of DUST... Chromosome.. almost everyone on the forums passionate about DUST didnt want it. And guess what? WE STILL DON'T. A company that develops to satisfy the couple hundred people who think they are FPS gods and are "really passionate for the game" won't be very successful. One of the negatives just about every review of Dust come Uprising 1.0 complained about the aiming and movement. They have fixed both to some extent. Personally I maintain about the same KDR now as I always have in this game (slightly positive) so I guess it doesn't really affect me, but I'm not so selfish as to have opinions based solely on what is best for me. Or maybe I should say I am selfish enough to want the game to thrive and grow so I can play it for many years and get my investment's worth. Oh and though you might not have said it (I think it was one of the DJINNs), moving in tight little circles while rapid firing the Tac AR was what made players elite at Uprising's elite, that is not skill or tactics it was taking advantage of BS hit detection. WTF are you talking about? EVERY review that has been done recently AGAIN on DUST 514... complains about the SAME AIMING AND MOVEMENT issues... AFTER Aim assist, wasn't this supposed to make it all better? Because it doesn't reflect that in a single review. CCP isn't catering to FPS gods? your hilarious.... This was Chromosome... over 15k players on the servers... The most enjoyable DUST other then maybe replication... DUST was 3x more successful without Aim assist... We can look at the server numbers... DUST had more players playing without aim assist as a fact. And High server density numbers... meaning servers always had a lot of people, Because DUST WAS FUN still... player peaks where 500-1k players... Not double server population... like now.... people play for an hour and log... If you moved in a tight circle against a fast firing TAC AR user? in Uprising 1.0? you where dead in a second.. Fact. Two TAC AR users CQC all trying to continuously stay out of each others reticle? you guys could have a toe to toe dual for two clips sometiems ... Edge of your seat butt clenching gun fights. What everyone loved about DUST. Oh and Aim Assist on average has increased The elite players KD/R .... because we will abuse any tool CCP gives us. And that is a massive tool. If we are saying reviews, then you should remember that almost every review came out pre 1.4, which was when AA returned after being removed for rework in the original uprising release. So all the "Mushy aiming and movement" review complaints are from the time when AA doesn't exist. Which it can be safely assumed that the lack of AA resulted in the mushy feeling. So wrong. U cannot un-mushify aiming with AA. I support SP rollover.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 503	Posted - 2014.02.28 06:51:00 - [62] - Quote As a 100% full time Mass Driver scrub, I'm going to just go out and say that the Mass Driver was never overpowered. Ever. And if you think so you are wrong and should feel bad about being wrong. It was definitely the FOTM for a while, but FOTM doesn't always mean it's the best weapon. RR and CR come out and people conveniently forgot that the Scrambler Rifle can STILL insta-gib suits (just ask Tiberius)... The weapons metagame changes quickly and does not always pick the best candidate. The MD became popular because while it had weirdness of its own, and has always been one of the WEAKEST weapons in the game DPS-wise, it totally bypassed most of the supposedly terrible hit detection, but more importantly bypassed the need to precisely aim in close quarters, allowing the MD's applicable DPS to be greater than the AR's theoretical DPS. It was still totally useless against talented players, but there are rarely enough of those on the field to make a difference outside of PC. The MD became FOTM because most people can't aim, pure and simple. The introduction of Aim Assist (the package of Aim Friction, Target Tracking, and Bullet Magnetism) correlates very strongly with the downfall of the MD, because now there was another solution for people who can't aim. Of course, Aim Assist brought about the downfall of the great many other things that are much more important than my silly noob tube: -The importance of mobility in an engagement, as no matter how well you can out-juke your enemy, it isn't your enemy you are out-juking, it's an algorithm. -The diversity of fittings, as your speed doesn't matter too much, your damage is already incredibly high with the BASE weapons and NO SP, and your stacked plates and shields only buy you another 100 milliseconds of life. -The importance of player skill, as now every other person in the game can land a string of bullets nearly perfectly with a minimum of effort. There are people who celebrate the death of these things, and you should know that those people are the enemy of what this game could be, and a dear friend of what the game currently is. Those people don't want fledgling players to have a chance at equalizing the playing field with inferior equipment and superior ability. They don't want individual skill to matter. They don't want to aim. They don't want to learn how to aim. They want to automate out the Shooter part of a First Person Shooter because of some misguided expectations set by a series of misguided developers. They are playing the wrong genre, and nobody had told them yet.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 535	Posted - 2014.02.28 06:57:00 - [63] - Quote Except that every other hit game in that genre also has aim assist. Maybe it's the anti aim assist crowd that's playing the wrong wrong genre. You know, console fps games?
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 160	Posted - 2014.02.28 07:15:00 - [64] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Except that every other hit game in that genre also has aim assist. Maybe it's the anti aim assist crowd that's playing the wrong wrong genre. You know, console fps games? Killzone: Shadowfall doesn't have aim assist. Sometimes I miss never seeing tanks in a battle... then I remember the mystical flying soma, and I can't help but smile.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 535	Posted - 2014.02.28 15:06:00 - [65] - Quote Thats one game, and it isnt exactly a big boy. Nobody was waiting in line to get their copy of killzone. Heck, I love FPS games, own a PS4 and dont own killzone. KZ isnt a "hit" franchise. If Destiny comes out and doesnt have AA, maybe an actual shift in console FPS has occured. But I highly doubt that will happen. Heck, I guarentee Planetside 2, a PC shooter ported to PS4, will have AA. If anything, KZ is the exception that proves the rule.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1692	Posted - 2014.02.28 16:10:00 - [66] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Good stuff. The other mechanic that benefits the MD is the way explosions rock the target's aim. It's a good, immersive mechanic. Thinking about it, i'm hoping heavies blast damage resistance comes with a commesurate reduction of the explosion-rocking effect for heavies. The sloth mechanic is awful and should be replaced by a more sensible mechanic - i like a rattling of the target's aim depending on the nature of the incoming fire and the mass of their fitted suit, including plates. I support SP rollover.
Zirzo Valcyn Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 160	Posted - 2014.02.28 16:22:00 - [67] - Quote sloth mechanic is an all time low in experimental development. if you want that feature it should be a module, same with AA- should have been a highslot mod. someones loosing at LAN parties again or a dev got angry because his target was able to take cover from RR u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 506	Posted - 2014.02.28 19:30:00 - [68] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Thats one game, and it isnt exactly a big boy. Nobody was waiting in line to get their copy of killzone. Heck, I love FPS games, own a PS4 and dont own killzone. KZ isnt a "hit" franchise. If Destiny comes out and doesnt have AA, maybe an actual shift in console FPS has occured. But I highly doubt that will happen. Heck, I guarentee Planetside 2, a PC shooter ported to PS4, will have AA. If anything, KZ is the exception that proves the rule. This post both illustrates an appeal to tradition, and also an acknowledgment that tradition can change. Open up your mind. If Destiny could buck the trend, why not Dust? And why should trends hold so much sway over design decisions? Smartphones in the early 2000s were huge and bulky, had keyboards, required styluses, and featured tiny low-res pressure sensitive touch screens. Some even had desktop-like interfaces with mazes of menus. Then the iPhone came out, and suddenly every smart phone became svelte things that had huge capacative touch screens with no keyboards or styluses, and simple touch-oriented interfaces. They changed the industry by ignoring industry trends and instead just did what made sense to make a good product. What other developers are doing should not be followed dogmatically, especially when there are numerous valid reasons why AA is bad for FPS games in general, and bad for Dust specifically.
ratamaq doc Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 453	Posted - 2014.02.28 20:18:00 - [69] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Bones McGavins wrote: Thats one game, and it isnt exactly a big boy. Nobody was waiting in line to get their copy of killzone. Heck, I love FPS games, own a PS4 and dont own killzone. KZ isnt a "hit" franchise. If Destiny comes out and doesnt have AA, maybe an actual shift in console FPS has occured. But I highly doubt that will happen. Heck, I guarentee Planetside 2, a PC shooter ported to PS4, will have AA. If anything, KZ is the exception that proves the rule. This post both illustrates an appeal to tradition, and also an acknowledgment that tradition can change. Open up your mind. If Destiny could buck the trend, why not Dust? And why should trends hold so much sway over design decisions? Smartphones in the early 2000s were huge and bulky, had keyboards, required styluses, and featured tiny low-res pressure sensitive touch screens. Some even had desktop-like interfaces with mazes of menus. Then the iPhone came out, and suddenly every smart phone became svelte things that had huge capacative touch screens with no keyboards or styluses, and simple touch-oriented interfaces. They changed the industry by ignoring industry trends and instead just did what made sense to make a good product. What other developers are doing should not be followed dogmatically, especially when there are numerous valid reasons why AA is bad for FPS games in general, and bad for Dust specifically. I like the idea about taking your idea about ground breaking a step further. AA should be a choice. An ability for those that needed, but a method to reward those skilled enough not to need it. This is why I like the idea of it being a module. Choose. AA, Damage, Shield. YouTube 30D Recruiting
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1750	Posted - 2014.02.28 20:30:00 - [70] - Quote I like that...maybe it could be part of a new electronics upgrade slot. You get AA, or squad shared passive scan data or other hud upgrades Probably easier though to just put it in the high slot. Adding new slots would mean updating the CPU / PG for all suits which is a huge rabbit hole to go down. I especially like the idea of having to choose between max damage and better aiming.

KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 509	Posted - 2014.03.01 18:42:00 - [71] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: I like that...maybe it could be part of a new electronics upgrade slot. You get AA, or squad shared passive scan data or other hud upgrades Probably easier though to just put it in the high slot. Adding new slots would mean updating the CPU / PG for all suits which is a huge rabbit hole to go down. I especially like the idea of having to choose between max damage and better aiming. You miss the point. Better aiming should come via better player skill. Adding a module to provide aim assist isn't a trade off at all, it'll be the OP flavor of the month, and will waste precious dev hours to bring the module back into "balance", when the whole idea is fatally flawed to begin with.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 587	Posted - 2014.03.01 18:47:00 - [72] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: I like that...maybe it could be part of a new electronics upgrade slot. You get AA, or squad shared passive scan data or other hud upgrades Probably easier though to just put it in the high slot. Adding new slots would mean updating the CPU / PG for all suits which is a huge rabbit hole to go down. I especially like the idea of having to choose between max damage and better aiming. I like this idea quite a bit. Liked.


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