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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
1687
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Posted - 2014.02.27 21:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
Bormir1r wrote:I remember after the update when Aim Assist came out, with **** loads of bugs and glitches with matchmaking and etc., TTK when up dramatically, but afterwards CCP decreased Aim Assist ( I think), how strong is Aim assist right now? I am not a fan of aim assist because when it is coupled with OP weapons, this game becomes ridiculous, and who want's to play a ridiculous game? I understand that Aim Assist is necessary, and this is definitely true, but to the point where it can be better than players who have real skill, it's just not right. Thoughts?
I apologize for not having a link for you, but the last clear statement i saw on AA by CCP was that it had not been adjusted from it's initial implmentation.
That was at least 3 months ago, iirc.
Best gauge of strength of AA is to fight with teammates in FW, since AA does not apply to teammates.
But pay attention while your're having it out with your teamates, because you'll see just how good or bad the raw DS3 aiming mechanics are - let us know how they compare to other shooters with AA turned off.
I support SP rollover.
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
1688
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Posted - 2014.02.27 22:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Imo aiming in DUST is essentially exactly the same as it was before AA, nothing about the raw DS3 aiming mechanics has changed, it's just that the AA was slathered over the top of the same old aiming mechanics. Pehaps a parameter or two was fiddled with. I think DUST's DS3 aiming mechanics are implemented via Unreal 3's basic toolkit.
Again, imo those raw DS3 mechanics are not quality mechanics. Many of the reviews of DUST say the same thing. First thing i want to see Rouge address, actually.
I support SP rollover.
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
1688
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Posted - 2014.02.27 22:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:Imo aiming in DUST is essentially exactly the same as it was before AA, nothing about the raw DS3 aiming mechanics has changed, it's just that the AA was slathered over the top of the same old aiming mechanics. Pehaps a parameter or two was fiddled with. I think DUST's DS3 aiming mechanics are implemented via Unreal 3's basic toolkit.
Again, imo those raw DS3 mechanics are not quality mechanics. Many of the reviews of DUST say the same thing. First thing i want to see Rouge address, actually. There is no 'raw ds3 input'. You cannot do raw input with a stick. Your guy's starting points are wrong.
Raw as applied to the DS3 means Aim Assist turned off.
I support SP rollover.
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
1689
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Posted - 2014.02.28 02:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:There was a lot of discussion on these forums about how explosions had issues. The MD was the center of those discussions. CCP commented on it and released fixes for it. The issue was with the explosion acting more like a plane than a sphere. So unless the explosion was on the same z axis it wouldn't hit right. This probably wouldn't impact HD on roof camping since you'd be shooting down at folks on the ground and not have to worry about it
This is the way i remember it too. Terrain, even small variations in terrain, was occluding the mass driver explosions.
First CCP buffed damage, then CCP fixed the occlusion problem. This was when the MD became....problematic.
lol CCP
I support SP rollover.
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
1689
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 03:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
ratamaq doc wrote:Bones McGavins wrote:The truth is, the AA whining is from players who arent very good at console FPS games, who used to be able to win soley based on massive ehp and dps advantages by better gear.
Dust used to have terrible hit detection combined with bad aiming mechanics. This meant even GOOD fps players would struggle to hit their target consistantly. So better gear mattered more because it was harder to overcome gear with skill. 50% more health and 20% more DPS has a bigger impact when fights are longer because nobody can land a shot.
Now that a 50% ehp and 20% dps advantage doesnt guarentee a win, these players are convinced that lesser skilled players are killing them. When the reality is, prior to AA, skill gap mattered less than SP and gear.
They long for the old days when they could throw down a triage nano and dance on it, tanking 3 players shooting at them and somehow come away thinking they won via their own "elite gun game".
This should be reiterated as a larger part of the conversation. The aim mechanics have improved, the ability to independently adjust the hip fire vs ADS for me has been one of the most welcome features in this game. I did two extensive videos on the problems I saw with aim mechanics that got Dev attention. IMO AA and Hit detection are compensating for those short comings. As long as it is there, I will use it. If it is removed, It will not make much difference to me. I need not validate to myself how good at moving two sticks with my thumbs are anymore. There is way more to whether you live or die here than that. Best advice? You want live? worry less about AA and Hit Detection and more about not getting shot in the first place.
Hey, ratamaq doc. Loved those videos, you taught me a lot, kinda provided a couple of new angles of approach in thinking about DUST's problematic aiming.
Here's a good forensic breakdown of aim acceleration & smoothing, the author really does his research. Part 1 and Part 2.
In part 2 i'm thinking Borderlands is prolly the closest to DUST in terms of using Unreal 3 tools and also their aim acceleration.
I support SP rollover.
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
1689
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Posted - 2014.02.28 06:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Bethhy wrote:Zahle Undt wrote:Bethhy wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Ok then lets try this in Vet language
CCP have looked at Aim Assist
CCP have not changed Aim Assist even after looking at it.
CCP a company who hires people who know how to make games are happy with it.
HTFU like the rest of us, you are not obligied to use it, I don't use, my brother uses it, I still win everyday of the week with mlt against his adv.
If you actually strafed instead belly dancing in the middle of the street you may find Aim Assist or not your much harder to hit.
Thank you goodnight. Let me enlighten you with some more memory and those icky facts...... CCP has implemented Aim assist 3 separate times in Beta... Everytime it got removed by player outrage... In Beta... Specially the closed versions almost EVERY player was a FPS enthusiast or had good FPS credentials... Almost EVERY players wanted this removed in Beta... and CCP removed it. and kept it off... Until the Executive Producer Quit CCP.... And the Developers released 1.3,1.4,1.5,1.6 Without any Executive producer guiding them(Arguably the worst patches in DUST's existence).. The Aim assist got implemented without any thought or even feedback from the CPM's or the community... Was barely mentioned by a 6 word line in the patch notes... This is a feature they ninja'd in even though the most successful times of DUST... Chromosome.. almost everyone on the forums passionate about DUST didnt want it. And guess what? WE STILL DON'T. A company that develops to satisfy the couple hundred people who think they are FPS gods and are "really passionate for the game" won't be very successful. One of the negatives just about every review of Dust come Uprising 1.0 complained about the aiming and movement. They have fixed both to some extent. Personally I maintain about the same KDR now as I always have in this game (slightly positive) so I guess it doesn't really affect me, but I'm not so selfish as to have opinions based solely on what is best for me. Or maybe I should say I am selfish enough to want the game to thrive and grow so I can play it for many years and get my investment's worth. Oh and though you might not have said it (I think it was one of the DJINNs), moving in tight little circles while rapid firing the Tac AR was what made players elite at Uprising's elite, that is not skill or tactics it was taking advantage of BS hit detection. WTF are you talking about? EVERY review that has been done recently AGAIN on DUST 514... complains about the SAME AIMING AND MOVEMENT issues... AFTER Aim assist, wasn't this supposed to make it all better? Because it doesn't reflect that in a single review. CCP isn't catering to FPS gods? your hilarious.... This was Chromosome... over 15k players on the servers... The most enjoyable DUST other then maybe replication... DUST was 3x more successful without Aim assist... We can look at the server numbers... DUST had more players playing without aim assist as a fact. And High server density numbers... meaning servers always had a lot of people, Because DUST WAS FUN still... player peaks where 500-1k players... Not double server population... like now.... people play for an hour and log... If you moved in a tight circle against a fast firing TAC AR user? in Uprising 1.0? you where dead in a second.. Fact. Two TAC AR users CQC all trying to continuously stay out of each others reticle? you guys could have a toe to toe dual for two clips sometiems ... Edge of your seat butt clenching gun fights. What everyone loved about DUST. Oh and Aim Assist on average has increased The elite players KD/R .... because we will abuse any tool CCP gives us. And that is a massive tool. If we are saying reviews, then you should remember that almost every review came out pre 1.4, which was when AA returned after being removed for rework in the original uprising release. So all the "Mushy aiming and movement" review complaints are from the time when AA doesn't exist. Which it can be safely assumed that the lack of AA resulted in the mushy feeling.
So wrong. U cannot un-mushify aiming with AA.
I support SP rollover.
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
1692
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Posted - 2014.02.28 16:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:Good stuff.
The other mechanic that benefits the MD is the way explosions rock the target's aim. It's a good, immersive mechanic. Thinking about it, i'm hoping heavies blast damage resistance comes with a commesurate reduction of the explosion-rocking effect for heavies.
The sloth mechanic is awful and should be replaced by a more sensible mechanic - i like a rattling of the target's aim depending on the nature of the incoming fire and the mass of their fitted suit, including plates.
I support SP rollover.
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