Video test of how much damage swarms do vs militia tanks. All militia tanks were as they come, nothing extra added. The Gunnlogi at the end was fitted with two basic hardeners and a complex heavy shield extender. Swarm user (ratamaq doc) had proficiency 3. 1st swarm launcher was a dren launcher with 1 basic damage mod. When he suicides, the second was proto swarm with 2 complex mods. 3rd swarm was proto swarm with no damage mods.

I admit, I was wrong. Swarms do need a small buff to damage. I suggest this.

Make current proto swarms the new militia/basic swarms. All versions would shoot 6 missiles.Militia/basic would do 220 damage per missile. Advanced would do 235 per missile. Proto would be 250 per missile.

The Video.

Video test of how much damage swarms do vs militia tanks. All militia tanks were as they come, nothing extra added. The Gunnlogi at the end was fitted with two basic hardeners and a complex heavy shield extender. Swarm user (ratamaq doc) had proficiency 3. 1st swarm launcher was a dren launcher with 1 basic damage mod. When he suicides, the second was proto swarm with 2 complex mods. 3rd swarm was proto swarm with no damage mods.

I admit, I was wrong. Swarms do need a small buff to damage. I suggest this.

Make current proto swarms the new militia/basic swarms. All versions would shoot 6 missiles.Militia/basic would do 220 damage per missile. Advanced would do 235 per missile. Proto would be 250 per missile.

The Video.

That video proves shield tanks need buffing
It took the same shots for your swarms to kill a soma and the sica....

That video proves shield tanks need buffing
It took the same shots for your swarms to kill a soma and the sica....

Video test of how much damage swarms do vs militia tanks. All militia tanks were as they come, nothing extra added. The Gunnlogi at the end was fitted with two basic hardeners and a complex heavy shield extender. Swarm user (ratamaq doc) had proficiency 3. 1st swarm launcher was a dren launcher with 1 basic damage mod. When he suicides, the second was proto swarm with 2 complex mods. 3rd swarm was proto swarm with no damage mods.

I admit, I was wrong. Swarms do need a small buff to damage. I suggest this.

Make current proto swarms the new militia/basic swarms. All versions would shoot 6 missiles.Militia/basic would do 220 damage per missile. Advanced would do 235 per missile. Proto would be 250 per missile.

The Video.

sry but this proves nothing really. As this doesn't simulate a battle situation. Having a vehicle sit there for a test may give a minimal idea; but doesn't prove anything. You need vehicles w/ modules on them an being used to get any sort of baseline idea and even that doesn't give a good idea of AV interaction.

Good effort/idea but the concept is flawed

It actually took one more shot to kill the Soma than the Sica, remember two things though, the Soma has a higher base EHP and it took two volleys before I got into his armor, and the Sica comes with a yellow print heavy shield booster. Had he boosted his shields, it would've taken at least 2 more volleys to get through.

As the others said the video doesn't really say much.

Swarms need either more lock-on range or more damage. More lock-on range preferably. I'm thinking like 250 meters.

The other problem with Swarms is the 50% damage increase from Standard to Proto. Such a huge damage increase will always mean that either Proto is OP or Standard is UP (right now Standard is UP, before 1.7 Proto was OP). It needs to be reduced to a 20% damage increase (like with the Forge).

You do that by making ALL Swarms no matter tier or anything have the same amount of missiles per shot, and then increase the damage on each missile across the tiers. For example:

Militia and Standard: 4 missiles of 280 damage, total 1120 damage.
Advanced : 4 missiles of 308 damage, total 1232 damage (10% increase from Standard).
Proto: 4 missiles of 336 damage, total 1344 damage (20% increase from Standard).

This would balance them, instead of Standard being terribly UP right now.

Video test of how much damage swarms do vs militia tanks. All militia tanks were as they come, nothing extra added. The Gunnlogi at the end was fitted with two basic hardeners and a complex heavy shield extender. Swarm user (ratamaq doc) had proficiency 3. 1st swarm launcher was a dren launcher with 1 basic damage mod. When he suicides, the second was proto swarm with 2 complex mods. 3rd swarm was proto swarm with no damage mods.

I admit, I was wrong. Swarms do need a small buff to damage. I suggest this.

Make current proto swarms the new militia/basic swarms. All versions would shoot 6 missiles.Militia/basic would do 220 damage per missile. Advanced would do 235 per missile. Proto would be 250 per missile.

The Video.

The only thing this video shows me is that 1 person shouldn't try to kill a tank on his own with a swarm launcher alone. Before 1.7 there use to be av squads that would run around in lavs and ambush tanks because they were extremely easy to kill but what everyone has done was given up and put all their skills into Rail Rifles. You show me a video of a commando, a heavy and a logibro in a lav attacking a hardened tank with the following. Assualt FG Flux nades Swarm Launchers and Av nades have the three of them jump out of the lav and ambush the tanker. Post that video and then the truth will come out. Give the Logi A 2 man rep tool a nano hive and a scanner give the heavy a decent FG fit and the commando dual Swarms.

The point was to see how much effort a swarm needed to do to destroy a tank, period. This wasn't theorycrafted on a calculator. This was actual footage of how many swarms were needed to kill a militia tank. The point is, even sitting there letting him blow me up, it still took 4-5 proto swarms to destroy me, even with his proficiency 3. That should not be. The point I had going in was that swarm damage was good at the proto level, but the problem was application of that damage.

We discussed making swarms go as fast as missiles from tanks and installations, slowing tanks down, and other things about keeping the current damage, and changing other factors to make it harder for tanks to avoid swarms, and thus making it easier for swarms to kill tanks without directly buffing their damage.

But as was shown, the prototype swarms, even with proficiency, and some with damage mods, still struggled to kill a tank THAT WAS NOT FIGHTING BACK AT ALL. I could have killed him at any time, but even offering no resistance, it took more than one magazine of proto swarms (with prof 3, don't forget that) to down my tank. That long reload gives me plenty of time to respond and take him out, and even if I fit nothing at all beyond what comes on the base militia tank, I still have a large chance of surviving the encounter, simply because he cannot put out enough damage.

I think a small damage increase, or increasing the magazine size of swarms by 1 at each level, would do wonders to help them be a threat to tanks. Swarms should be able to kill a tank that offers no resistance in one magazine.

Three guys to kill one tank. That's funny. I suppose I can request that my Gallente Assault suit should have enough armor that it should require three other players to kill me..? Because it's expensive..? While we're at it, bear in mind that the reason those AV teams don't really exist anymore is because AV Grenades got nerfed to hell. Light infantry can't just run up on a tank and destroy it with burst damage like that anymore, especially what with dual-hardener shield tanks being able to recharge through almost anything.

I used to run these exact things with Harlequin13 - we've tried it a few times since 1.7 dropped. Doesn't work nearly as well anymore. You're better off dropping in a railgun tank to alpha-strike it to death or use a forge team.

when it was expensive for tankers no one cared they just said it was all qq and poorly fitted tanks and in pre 1.7 it only took 1 lav and a heavy with a FG to kill a tank. Jihad lav FG dead tank nano hive av nades dead tank now that it takes some effort. People want to complain its expensive please how is it expensive if the load is shared by 3 different players. Pre 1.7 tanks were averaging 1.5 mil that was for 1 person to bear.

Also the way things are with RR atm it does take what's that word people were telling tankers a SQUAD to be effective solo tanking in 1.6 thats a stupid move.

Yup shields on vehicles need buffing too
It shoukd take more explosive rounds to kill a shield tano than a armor one, and booster is just lol
And hav's need a team quota of 2 or 3, fix nitros too.


And ccp wanted av to use teamwork so yea, whatever though.

They always wanted tanks to cost a lot and require skill to use.

That has changed.

That video proves shield tanks need buffing
It took the same shots for your swarms to kill a soma and the sica....

sry but this proves nothing really. As this doesn't simulate a battle situation. Having a vehicle sit there for a test may give a minimal idea; but doesn't prove anything. You need vehicles w/ modules on them an being used to get any sort of baseline idea and even that doesn't give a good idea of AV interaction.

Good effort/idea but the concept is flawed

agreed 3 bullets left in clip or nerf forg guns as those are made for sheild tanks yet are for some reason the deadliest weapon vs armor plus being even more devestatong to sheild

you do understand that swarms are naturally weaker against shields which kinda defeats the purpose of this thread now if it was harder to kill the soma than the sica with swarms then you have a problem but basing it off a shield tank and to make it worse your basing it off a mlt/std swarm launcher if you was using proto with like 1-2 dmg mods you would have killed the sica and soma with 3 shots easy now if you were comparing mlt swarms vs mlt tank fine but not really a good way to test them out vs stronger fits besides duel hardners I highly doubt was intended by CCP so they will most likely change this anyway and there is teir swarms for a reason


Besides didn't CCP state before 1.7 that tanks would have moments they are strong and moments when they were weak its easy make him pop his hardner granted this is if he only has 1 like say after CCP fixes that issue then wait for his hardner to cut off and pound away at his HP i only use 1 hardner on my tank and I have seen plenty hurt me harshly with AV even swarms alot of the time a proto swarm could take over 30% of my shields in 1 hit when I don't have my hardner on the issues I see is alot are not using their head and waiting for thier hardners to turn back off cause unless you got enough people hitting him with AV your chances of killing him before he starts to run is low but wait for that hardner to shut off and ambush him and I bet you he won't survive

He second round of test was with proto pref 3 swarms with 2complex DMG mods. Took 3 volleys to kill the Sica (yellow print shield boost would've added the need for 1 or 2 more volleys) and 4 shots to kill the Soma.

24 seconds base is not a moment, on the battle field when your primary weapon can only shoot vehicles, it's an eternity.

The most surprising thing to me was that proto swarms weren't enough to even break the shield regen of a single hardened tank.

I think most agree that the problem is the low cost of militia tanks (spam) hardeners, the speed that tanks can escape, how effective blasters are vs infantry, and that swarms at any level other than proto are useless with proto being only mildly useful. Before this build I had 5 different swarm fits. I only have one now because every other was a waist of space.

sry but this proves nothing really. As this doesn't simulate a battle situation. Having a vehicle sit there for a test may give a minimal idea; but doesn't prove anything. You need vehicles w/ modules on them an being used to get any sort of baseline idea and even that doesn't give a good idea of AV interaction.

Good effort/idea but the concept is flawed

when it was expensive for tankers no one cared they just said it was all qq and poorly fitted tanks and in pre 1.7 it only took 1 lav and a heavy with a FG to kill a tank. Jihad lav FG dead tank nano hive av nades dead tank now that it takes some effort. People want to complain its expensive please how is it expensive if the load is shared by 3 different players. Pre 1.7 tanks were averaging 1.5 mil that was for 1 person to bear.