|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
ratamaq doc
Edge Regiment
407
   |
Posted - 2014.02.19 07:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
NK Scout wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Video test of how much damage swarms do vs militia tanks. All militia tanks were as they come, nothing extra added. The Gunnlogi at the end was fitted with two basic hardeners and a complex heavy shield extender. Swarm user (ratamaq doc) had proficiency 3. 1st swarm launcher was a dren launcher with 1 basic damage mod. When he suicides, the second was proto swarm with 2 complex mods. 3rd swarm was proto swarm with no damage mods. I admit, I was wrong. Swarms do need a small buff to damage. I suggest this. Make current proto swarms the new militia/basic swarms. All versions would shoot 6 missiles.Militia/basic would do 220 damage per missile. Advanced would do 235 per missile. Proto would be 250 per missile. The Video. That video proves shield tanks need buffing It took the same shots for your swarms to kill a soma and the sica....
It actually took one more shot to kill the Soma than the Sica, remember two things though, the Soma has a higher base EHP and it took two volleys before I got into his armor, and the Sica comes with a yellow print heavy shield booster. Had he boosted his shields, it would've taken at least 2 more volleys to get through.
YouTube
30D Recruiting
|
ratamaq doc
Edge Regiment
409
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 16:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Tailss Prower wrote:you do understand that swarms are naturally weaker against shields which kinda defeats the purpose of this thread now if it was harder to kill the soma than the sica with swarms then you have a problem but basing it off a shield tank and to make it worse your basing it off a mlt/std swarm launcher if you was using proto with like 1-2 dmg mods you would have killed the sica and soma with 3 shots easy now if you were comparing mlt swarms vs mlt tank fine but not really a good way to test them out vs stronger fits besides duel hardners I highly doubt was intended by CCP so they will most likely change this anyway and there is teir swarms for a reason
Besides didn't CCP state before 1.7 that tanks would have moments they are strong and moments when they were weak its easy make him pop his hardner granted this is if he only has 1 like say after CCP fixes that issue then wait for his hardner to cut off and pound away at his HP i only use 1 hardner on my tank and I have seen plenty hurt me harshly with AV even swarms alot of the time a proto swarm could take over 30% of my shields in 1 hit when I don't have my hardner on the issues I see is alot are not using their head and waiting for thier hardners to turn back off cause unless you got enough people hitting him with AV your chances of killing him before he starts to run is low but wait for that hardner to shut off and ambush him and I bet you he won't survive
He second round of test was with proto pref 3 swarms with 2complex DMG mods. Took 3 volleys to kill the Sica (yellow print shield boost would've added the need for 1 or 2 more volleys) and 4 shots to kill the Soma.
24 seconds base is not a moment, on the battle field when your primary weapon can only shoot vehicles, it's an eternity.
The most surprising thing to me was that proto swarms weren't enough to even break the shield regen of a single hardened tank.
I think most agree that the problem is the low cost of militia tanks (spam) hardeners, the speed that tanks can escape, how effective blasters are vs infantry, and that swarms at any level other than proto are useless with proto being only mildly useful. Before this build I had 5 different swarm fits. I only have one now because every other was a waist of space.
YouTube
30D Recruiting
|
ratamaq doc
Edge Regiment
409
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 17:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Make current proto swarms the new militia/basic swarms. All versions would shoot 6 missiles.Militia/basic would do 220 damage per missile. Advanced would do 235 per missile. Proto would be 250 per missile. That would be a massive buff to Militia/Basic Swarm Launchers, giving them the same damage they had in 1.6. Considering that every player has access to Militia Swarms for free on the Starter AV suit, I think this is a serious problem. Also you are proposing a 44% buff to Militia/Basic Swarm Launcher damage while only giving the Proto Swarm Launcher a 12% damage buff. I personally prefer giving Swarm Launchers a 12% buff across the board (increasing missel damage from 220 to 250, but not changing the current missile counts), plus giving them a 12% range buff (increasing lock range from 175m to 200m.)
Militia tanks require 0 sp also.
The increase to missile count is a problem because it creates a 50% increase to damage moving from STD to Proto. This is why the proto swarm launcher out performs the proto PLC on shield vehicles, which shouldn't be the case given the PLC is the anti shield AV and out performs, or does its job correctly at STD level. By leaving the nerfed proto swarm where it is, or maybe a mild damage increase, then doing whatever is needed to make the ADV 5% weaker and STD 10% weaker you put it inline with every other weapon in the game. By leaving it the way it is, you habe a situation where either one is to weak (this build) or one is too strong (last build)
YouTube
30D Recruiting
|
ratamaq doc
Edge Regiment
409
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 18:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:The point was to see how much effort a swarm needed to do to destroy a tank, period. This wasn't theorycrafted on a calculator. This was actual footage of how many swarms were needed to kill a militia tank. The point is, even sitting there letting him blow me up, it still took 4-5 proto swarms to destroy me, even with his proficiency 3. That should not be. The point I had going in was that swarm damage was good at the proto level, but the problem was application of that damage.
We discussed making swarms go as fast as missiles from tanks and installations, slowing tanks down, and other things about keeping the current damage, and changing other factors to make it harder for tanks to avoid swarms, and thus making it easier for swarms to kill tanks without directly buffing their damage.
But as was shown, the prototype swarms, even with proficiency, and some with damage mods, still struggled to kill a tank THAT WAS NOT FIGHTING BACK AT ALL. I could have killed him at any time, but even offering no resistance, it took more than one magazine of proto swarms (with prof 3, don't forget that) to down my tank. That long reload gives me plenty of time to respond and take him out, and even if I fit nothing at all beyond what comes on the base militia tank, I still have a large chance of surviving the encounter, simply because he cannot put out enough damage.
I think a small damage increase, or increasing the magazine size of swarms by 1 at each level, would do wonders to help them be a threat to tanks. Swarms should be able to kill a tank that offers no resistance in one magazine. Swarms are supplementary damage... This whole video is like taking a heavy suit then asking how many body shots it takes a basic scrambler pistol to kill the heavy with.. If you were looking at Primary AV then a forge gun is your target. Besides. The fact that swarms Aim FOR you is another reason they have reduced damage. However, the militia did perform sub-par even for a supplement.
How can you say that a weapon that only has one purpose is a supplement to that purpose. If you are suggesting that a SL should be a side arm, in its current state, I would agree. As far as lockon, trust me you don't want to bring back the shoulder fired missile turret.
YouTube
30D Recruiting
|
ratamaq doc
Edge Regiment
409
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 21:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Billi Gene wrote:I'm sorry but i got thru two pages before i couldn't take it any more:
there is a subtle but significant logic fail to the OP's suggestions.
you want swarms buffed because militia tanks are too strong?
why not nerf militia tanks instead?.....hmmmmmmm..... because then you wont be stealth nerfing DROPSHIPS...that bastard child no one thinks of because hey... they are so squishy hardly anyone uses them, other then to suicide drop them onto roofs to plant uplinks....if they make it that far.
I think swarms need a range buff. maybe a very sleight damage buff, but i also think militia tanks are too good atm, maybe they need an EHP nerf or a fittings (CPU/PG) nerf, its up to CCP really :P
but don't be running to da forums with your shouty overly verbose screamy demands without thinking of the greater game balance..... puh-lease... because the last thing we need is for more stuff to get broken because people can't or won't use their heads!
apologies for the abusive rant :P... but go do your tests vs an Assault Dropship (hull costs 322k isk) before calling out for a stealth nerf :P
also: my tanks die to AV plenty... usually due to driver error but also when i have been played well with a 'bait and ambush', which i guess is driver error of a different sort :P ... if you can't kill a militia tank what hope do You have against a moderately skilled standard :P ......pfft single swarms.... :P squad game nerfed because people refuse to use squad tactics...pfft
apologies for second rant...O_o where did that come from =/
A simple PG/CPU nerf to militia tanks would be to force yellow print small turrets on them. This would weaken their potential and add the bonus of going after them to the tune of +2 kills. Tankers complaining about blues jumping in their tanks can skill into the STD hulls.
YouTube
30D Recruiting
|
|
|
| |
|