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How BPOs could be fixed ASAP and bridging the manufacturing gap

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Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2149	Posted - 2014.02.10 14:15:00 - [1] - Quote It's been said by CCP and others many times that BPOs break the game economy because they provide a free unlimited supply of items (albeit low value ones but the value is irrelevant in the big picture anyway). However, BPOs are an intrisic part of the New Eden universe and could continue to be a fantastic way for CCP to bring in revenue. The following idea does not vary hugely from the current/old situation and potentially could be implemented in time for fanfest (depending on what is already lined up for dev sprints over the next few months): 1) Create BPOs for every single item in the game (excluding officer salvage) 2) Make them cost many millions of isk / lots of aurum 3) BPOs no longer provide free unlimited items but players get the BPO'd items for much cheaper than the BPC market value 4) BPCs are still available from the main market at current prices (or increased prices, whatever) The next step would be to provide players with the ability to purchase manufacturing materials from NPC (and later Eve) mining corps, which would be required to create items from BPO plans. This would restore BPOs to useful items both to players and CCP without breaking the economy or future possibilities of the player market; in fact it would provide a starting platform for both manufacturing and the player market as well as fitting in well with the way BPOs and BPCs have worked in Eve for years. Some caveats to control the effect of BPOs on the current game economy could be: - Militia BPOs cost up to 10 million isk each - Standard BPOs cost up to 50 million isk each - Advanced BPOs cost up to 100 million isk each - Proto BPOs are extremely rare salvage only (say 0.01% chance) Up to Advanced BPOs could have a 0.1% salvage chance. A new BPO section could be added to the marketplace with up to Advanced BPOs available for aurum of similar values to what they were before they were removed from the market. The price of items created from BPOs could be 1/2 of the market price making them long term investments, so players buying them would feel like they have to keep playing to get the full value of what they have bought. In the future, when we have a player market, manufacturing time and materials cost could be added, so that players can't just quickly flood the market with cheap gear and undermine the economy. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven 350	Posted - 2014.02.10 14:26:00 - [2] - Quote BPO's were fixed when they removed them from the market. Neighborhood Bully prof 5 "Gimme yo lunch money"
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2191	Posted - 2014.02.10 14:29:00 - [3] - Quote I'd be fine with this, but I don't think it's a quick solution. It would probably take a long time to implement. Also, do people really think 600-3000 isk is breaking the economy? "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2150	Posted - 2014.02.10 14:35:00 - [4] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: I'd be fine with this, but I don't think it's a quick solution. It would probably take a long time to implement. Also, do people really think 600-3000 isk is breaking the economy? Restore BPOs - make refilling them cost isk; can't imagine a quicker way of getting BPOs back into the game. Granted, I have no idea how backed up CCPs sprint plans are but 3 months for a change like this seems reasonable. And yes, 600-3000 isk when multiplied by the many thousands of times they are used and lost every day is breaking the economy. However, that is not the only point - this is not only fixing a broken part of the game; it's extending it and providing a platform for the future of the game. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1747	Posted - 2014.02.10 14:36:00 - [5] - Quote Fixed ASAP -> Needs a lot of new mechanics and items. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2150	Posted - 2014.02.10 14:36:00 - [6] - Quote Drapedup Drippedout wrote: BPO's were fixed when they removed them from the market. They were not fixed by being removed because thosuands of people already had the BPOs and continue to use them on a daily basis. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2150	Posted - 2014.02.10 14:39:00 - [7] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: Fixed ASAP -> Needs a lot of new mechanics and items. 1 new mechanic - BPO refills cost isk. 2 if you include the salvage part. Yes, lots of new items but if the number is a problem, they can just restore all the old BPOs to the market that already exist on the server and add the other new BPOs later. If you come up with a faster useful solution, please share it. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Yelhsa Jin-Mao Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 331	Posted - 2014.02.10 14:39:00 - [8] - Quote I have 62 BPOs and you can't have any of them! I can has ISK
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD 491	Posted - 2014.02.10 14:41:00 - [9] - Quote Remove all free suits while you're at it, does nothing but ruin the economy Director of ZionTCD Amarr Logi \| Amarr Sentinel \| Amarr Scout (SoonGäó) TDBS
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 3008	Posted - 2014.02.10 14:43:00 - [10] - Quote For Blueprint Originals to not disrupt a future economy they will require a bill of materials in order to produce. The simplest material would be some form of 'nanite base'. Actually, all BPO and BPC should require this. How is this introduced to the battlefield? The simplest is just to tax each use and assume that whoever brought in the MCC and placed the supply depots and CRUs loaded them with the base material and then charge you. Once player made MCCs, depots and CRUS are added then each would have a reserve of the base material. There should then be a limit to the material just as teams must commit biomass to the PC battles. Then you can either tie this items to the EVE economy or add material acquisition to PVE. // Lance Commander // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana

Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven 350	Posted - 2014.02.10 14:45:00 - [11] - Quote Simple...attach the value of the standard item to the bpo so that when it's lost in battle it doesn't cost the owner, but still ads the isk to the payout pool at the end of the match. CCP put bpo's in the game to make money, they made A LOT of money off of them. Why should the community have to deal with CCP not having the foresight and fortitude to realize that they made the mistake? Fix it so suit lost still produces ISK payout, but BPO's should not cost owner anything to use. They should not be consumable in any regard. Neighborhood Bully prof 5 "Gimme yo lunch money"
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2150	Posted - 2014.02.10 14:45:00 - [12] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: For Blueprint Originals to not disrupt a future economy they will require a bill of materials in order to produce. The simplest material would be some form of 'nanite base'. Actually, all BPO and BPC should require this. How is this introduced to the battlefield? The simplest is just to tax each use and assume that whoever brought in the MCC and placed the supply depots and CRUs loaded them with the base material and then charge you. Once player made MCCs, depots and CRUS are added then each would have a reserve of the base material. There should then be a limit to the material just as teams must commit biomass to the PC battles. Then you can either tie this items to the EVE economy or add material acquisition to PVE. Getting a bit ahead of me here but the basic principles hold. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2150	Posted - 2014.02.10 14:49:00 - [13] - Quote Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Simple...attach the value of the standard item to the bpo so that when it's lost in battle it doesn't cost the owner, but still ads the isk to the payout pool at the end of the match. CCP put bpo's in the game to make money, they made A LOT of money off of them. Why should the community have to deal with CCP not having the foresight and fortitude to realize that they made the mistake? Fix it so suit lost still produces ISK payout, but BPO's should not cost owner anything to use. They should not be consumable in any regard. The problem is not the BPOs not adding to payout; the problem is people getting free unlimited items. Free stuff = no risk = broken risk <> reward mechanics Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Nirwanda Vaughns 323	Posted - 2014.02.10 14:49:00 - [14] - Quote been on about this since the issue of removing bpos from market. to bring htem in immediatly and to help those of us find a purpose for all the junk salavage we get then do as you say. introduce BPOs for every item in game for a high AUR price. seeing as our mercs live in stations allow us to both reprocess items in order to build from the bpos. manufaturing skill gives +1 manufacturing job per level manufacturing efficiency +10% per level items produced per cycle refining efficiency +10% materials recovered from reprocessing then as the game grows we could receive materials from the PvE drone infestation mode and when market opens up noobs could use manufacturing as a side income to help them get hold of cheap suits Proto and proud!!
knight of 6 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1376	Posted - 2014.02.10 14:49:00 - [15] - Quote ugh care bear sht. okay lets play this game I mine in null (no really I do). I can get any mineral I choose and ship it back to hi-sec for manufacturing or manufacture it in null and ship the product to local market. there are two ways to do a dust market: 1: the market is decentralized items can be listed at any market hub and mercs can buy them and have them show up in the inventory auto magically cause mercs can't move and don't really have any need to. 2: a centralized market, items intended for mercenary use must be brought to a system containing mercs to be sold turning mercenary systems into massive trade hubs. this next part of the thought experiment assumes that there is a 1:1 ratio of mat value to product value (I.E a 100K dropsuit is worth 100K in materials) in market option one there is no shipping cost I mine, refine, manufacture, and sell everything from null. so if I mine 500 mill worth of mats (I mine and ship in blocks of 500 mil) and create 500 mil worth of suits then contract them to knight of 6 for the low cost of zero isk I would have 8771 prototype dropsuits... and you think proto stomping is bad now. I need to go to class, I'll finish this post later expect an edit, but you can see where this is going... "God favors the side with the best artillery"* ~ Napoleon Ko6, scout. CLOSED BETA VET
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 602	Posted - 2014.02.10 14:53:00 - [16] - Quote Before we start fixing the drastical influence of BPO's that save a few thousend ISk per battle, CCP should fix PCQ farming where everyday MILLIONS of ISK is thrown in economy for free day by day (BTW what economy???)
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2150	Posted - 2014.02.10 14:59:00 - [17] - Quote knight of 6 wrote: ugh care bear sh*t. okay lets play this game I mine in null (no really I do). I can get any mineral I choose and ship it back to hi-sec for manufacturing or manufacture it in null and ship the product to local market. there are two ways to do a dust market: 1: the market is decentralized items can be listed at any market hub and mercs can buy them and have them show up in the inventory auto magically cause mercs can't move and don't really have any need to. 2: a centralized market, items intended for mercenary use must be brought to a system containing mercs to be sold turning mercenary systems into massive trade hubs. this next part of the thought experiment assumes that there is a 1:1 ratio of mat value to product value (I.E a 100K dropsuit is worth 100K in materials) in market option one there is no shipping cost I mine, refine, manufacture, and sell everything from null. so if I mine 500 mill worth of mats (I mine and ship in blocks of 500 mil) and create 500 mil worth of suits then contract them to knight of 6 for the low cost of zero isk I would have 8771 prototype dropsuits... and you think proto stomping is bad now. I need to go to class, I'll finish this post later expect an edit, but you can see where this is going... The Eve <> Dust link would need to be complete before anything like this could be done and please note that I mentioned proto BPOs would only be available as extremely rare salvage. Keep it to the basics for now - BPOs available, cost isk to refill and lots to buy the BPO itself. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Nirwanda Vaughns 323	Posted - 2014.02.10 14:59:00 - [18] - Quote knight of 6 wrote: ugh care bear sh*t. okay lets play this game I mine in null (no really I do). I can get any mineral I choose and ship it back to hi-sec for manufacturing or manufacture it in null and ship the product to local market. there are two ways to do a dust market: 1: the market is decentralized items can be listed at any market hub and mercs can buy them and have them show up in the inventory auto magically cause mercs can't move and don't really have any need to. 2: a centralized market, items intended for mercenary use must be brought to a system containing mercs to be sold turning mercenary systems into massive trade hubs. this next part of the thought experiment assumes that there is a 1:1 ratio of mat value to product value (I.E a 100K dropsuit is worth 100K in materials) in market option one there is no shipping cost I mine, refine, manufacture, and sell everything from null. so if I mine 500 mill worth of mats (I mine and ship in blocks of 500 mil) and create 500 mil worth of suits then contract them to knight of 6 for the low cost of zero isk I would have 8771 prototype dropsuits... and you think proto stomping is bad now. I need to go to class, I'll finish this post later expect an edit, but you can see where this is going... idea i had for making the market 'lore friendly' for us mercs is that when we buy/sell stuf off market the item is 'delivered' to/for us by NPC freighters in a given time limit so i could set up a sell order in the next region over (15jumps for example) and it will take 5mins per jump and a jump fee per jump for the items to arrive and become available for sale. as you probs see in eve there are npc caravans and atm our warbarges are moved immediatly by NPC that way it encourages sellign in home stations to reduce the cost of settign up the items further away Proto and proud!!
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2150	Posted - 2014.02.10 15:00:00 - [19] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Before we start fixing the drastical influence of BPO's that save a few thousend ISk per battle, CCP should fix PCQ farming where everyday MILLIONS of ISK is thrown in economy for free day by day (BTW what economy???) There's nothing to say both can not be fixed at the same time - there's more than 1 dev at CCP. Both these things must be fixed before this game can be considered to have a working economy. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2150	Posted - 2014.02.10 15:03:00 - [20] - Quote Good ideas Nirwanda but again getting a little ahead of me there - in order for this to come in at a reasonably quick timescale, we need to add as few new mechanics as possible. Manufacturing materials should come later - for now, just pay a little isk to refill BPOs. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts

Dremel wp Shadow Company HQ Lokun Listamenn 18	Posted - 2014.02.10 15:19:00 - [21] - Quote If there is to be a player run economy, and blueprint production is going to be part of it, then realize this means the removal of the unlimited supply of advanced and protype gear from the market. In other words, you won't be able to find this stuff in quantities to use for any and every game, even if you have the money for it. What would the billionaires have to spend their ISK on? Other hand, could reduce the pubstomping, and give older players a different 'game mode' to play that helps them to build their proto/advance gear. http://i.imgur.com/sDVthSP.gif
NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 181	Posted - 2014.02.10 15:30:00 - [22] - Quote It's not game breaking, The Mega corps that make the weapons pay for the BPO costs to promote the weapons. Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1. Original ROF needs to return!
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4439	Posted - 2014.02.10 15:33:00 - [23] - Quote No BPOs for ISK outside the player market. No BPOs for any gear higher than Standard. As long as BPOs remain infinite-use, this is a simple way to avoid them being OP. In terms of breaking the market, no sale of BPOs would solve the problem pretty easily as a short term solution. Below is a better solution for the long term. Introduce mining facilities which collect raw materials. BPOs require these materials to produce BPCs. Infinite BPCs can be created from a BPO, as long as the resources are available. Adding materials to the NPC market provides a measure of stability to prices - players won't buy from one another unless they're undercutting NPC prices, so players can't artificially inflate the cost of running BPOs. Larger corporations will be able to control territory and produce materials, making their BPO operating costs less than those of the smaller corps who have to buy the materials to use. Either option will be cheaper than buying the regular items repeatedly. PvE raids on NPC mining facilities could be added as an alternative method of acquiring resources for BPOs. This could expand into a hybrid game-mode with a later introduction of defense contracts on mining facilities, where players raiding a facility could be intercepted by another team of players instead of NPC defenses.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2150	Posted - 2014.02.10 15:34:00 - [24] - Quote Dremel wp wrote: If there is to be a player run economy, and blueprint production is going to be part of it, then realize this means the removal of the unlimited supply of advanced and protype gear from the market. In other words, you won't be able to find this stuff in quantities to use for any and every game, even if you have the money for it. What would the billionaires have to spend their ISK on? Other hand, could reduce the pubstomping, and give older players a different 'game mode' to play that helps them to build their proto/advance gear. Why would the NPC market have to disappear? It can still exist; it will just be out-competed by the player market. And also, never underestimate the power of carebears - there will always be people looking to make a quick buck by keeping a steady supply of gear going. And if stuff gets low on supply, then it'll just become more valuable, encouraging people to build it. That's supply and demand for you. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2150	Posted - 2014.02.10 15:35:00 - [25] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: It's not game breaking, The Mega corps that make the weapons pay for the BPO costs to promote the weapons. How is unlimited free anything not economy breaking? Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2150	Posted - 2014.02.10 15:40:00 - [26] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: No BPOs for ISK outside the player market. No BPOs for any gear higher than Standard. Introduce mining facilities which collect raw materials. BPOs require these materials to produce BPCs. Infinite BPCs can be created from a BPO, as long as the resources are available. Adding materials to the NPC market provides a measure of stability to prices - players won't buy from one another unless they're undercutting NPC prices, so players can't artificially inflate the cost of running BPOs. Larger corporations will be able to control territory and produce materials, making their BPO operating costs less than those of the smaller corps who have to buy the materials to use. Either option will be cheaper than buying the regular items repeatedly. PvE raids on NPC mining facilities could be added as an alternative method of acquiring resources for BPOs. This could expand into a hybrid game-mode with a later introduction of defense contracts on mining facilities, where players raiding a facility could be intercepted by another team of players instead of NPC defenses. All good points but for way into the future. I do believe though that BPOs should be available for isk (albeit at vast amounts of isk) because otherwise you'll be locking manufacturing and trade away from free to play players and one thing CCP has always promoted for Dust514 is all content open to all players. I don't see any problem with BPOs for higher than standard gear, as long as it's implemented in way that still requires players to spend both time and money to replace every item that is lost. The alternative is to eternally rely on the NPC market to provide high end gear and that means we only get half an economy. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 338	Posted - 2014.02.10 16:23:00 - [27] - Quote So a blueprint that saves at most a couple of thousand isk is a problem to the economy? Yet PC corps with god knows how many locked districts that still create millions of isk a day in passive form is ok? LOL
Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven 354	Posted - 2014.02.10 17:06:00 - [28] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Simple...attach the value of the standard item to the bpo so that when it's lost in battle it doesn't cost the owner, but still ads the isk to the payout pool at the end of the match. CCP put bpo's in the game to make money, they made A LOT of money off of them. Why should the community have to deal with CCP not having the foresight and fortitude to realize that they made the mistake? Fix it so suit lost still produces ISK payout, but BPO's should not cost owner anything to use. They should not be consumable in any regard. The problem is not the BPOs not adding to payout; the problem is people getting free unlimited items. Free stuff = no risk = broken risk <> reward mechanics Free? I paid money for them -_- Neighborhood Bully prof 5 "Gimme yo lunch money"
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2151	Posted - 2014.02.10 17:14:00 - [29] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: So a blueprint that saves at most a couple of thousand isk is a problem to the economy? Yet PC corps with god knows how many locked districts that still create millions of isk a day in passive form is ok? LOL I didn't say free PC isk wasn't a problem - both are and both need fixing if we ever want a fully functional economy. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2151	Posted - 2014.02.10 17:15:00 - [30] - Quote Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Django Quik wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Simple...attach the value of the standard item to the bpo so that when it's lost in battle it doesn't cost the owner, but still ads the isk to the payout pool at the end of the match. CCP put bpo's in the game to make money, they made A LOT of money off of them. Why should the community have to deal with CCP not having the foresight and fortitude to realize that they made the mistake? Fix it so suit lost still produces ISK payout, but BPO's should not cost owner anything to use. They should not be consumable in any regard. The problem is not the BPOs not adding to payout; the problem is people getting free unlimited items. Free stuff = no risk = broken risk <> reward mechanics Free? I paid money for them -_- Like actual real money. Not this make believe isk stuff As did I but we're talking about the ingame economy, not your penny jar, so this make believe isk stuff is what really matters. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts

Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven 356	Posted - 2014.02.10 17:19:00 - [31] - Quote Django Quik wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: It's not game breaking, The Mega corps that make the weapons pay for the BPO costs to promote the weapons. How is unlimited free anything not economy breaking? They are not unlimited. That is why CCP stopped selling them. Only a certain % of players have them. And no more are being distributed = finite amount. When the player market hits, they should be able to be sold. Thus defining an 'unlimited' amount of resources (the bpo itself) with a value in ISK. They are limited in the sense that either you own one or your don't. If a MLT basic plate bpo sells at 15mil ISK (a reasonable price), how many suits must be lost before said user actually turns a profit? 1500 isk or so for basic plate (estimate, I'm at work...they're prolly more like 800). So 15,000,000/1500 = 10,000 deaths before owner sees profit. That's got to be close to 6-8 months of straight gameplay. Risk V Reward you ask? How about you're running a BPO, literally the squishiest stuff on the battlefield. You run that for 6-8 months and watch your KD/R eat ****, your equipment is sub par and you will lose more matches because of it. Yes, I have 3 suits that I literally have an infinite amount of, an assault, a logi, and a scout. I run them maybe a grand total of 1hr/week. The vast majority of BPO holders are not running BPO's 24/7. There is nothing game breaking about them. Neighborhood Bully prof 5 "Gimme yo lunch money"
plaplapla Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day 17	Posted - 2014.02.10 17:32:00 - [32] - Quote [quote=Django Quik]It's been said by CCP and others many times that BPOs break the game economy because they provide a free unlimited supply of items (albeit low value ones but the value is irrelevant in the big picture anyway). However, BPOs are an intrisic part of the New Eden universe and could continue to be a fantastic way for CCP to bring in revenue. if BPOs are so are starter fits
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2155	Posted - 2014.02.10 17:44:00 - [33] - Quote Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Django Quik wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: It's not game breaking, The Mega corps that make the weapons pay for the BPO costs to promote the weapons. How is unlimited free anything not economy breaking? They are not unlimited. That is why CCP stopped selling them. Only a certain % of players have them. And no more are being distributed = finite amount. When the player market hits, they should be able to be sold. Thus defining an 'unlimited' amount of resources (the bpo itself) with a value in ISK. They are limited in the sense that either you own one or your don't. If a MLT basic plate bpo sells at 15mil ISK (a reasonable price), how many suits must be lost before said user actually turns a profit? 1500 isk or so for basic plate (estimate, I'm at work...they're prolly more like 800). So 15,000,000/1500 = 10,000 deaths before owner sees profit. That's got to be close to 6-8 months of straight gameplay. Risk V Reward you ask? How about you're running a BPO, literally the squishiest stuff on the battlefield. You run that for 6-8 months and watch your KD/R eat ****, your equipment is sub par and you will lose more matches because of it. Yes, I have 3 suits that I literally have an infinite amount of, an assault, a logi, and a scout. I run them maybe a grand total of 1hr/week. The vast majority of BPO holders are not running BPO's 24/7. There is nothing game breaking about them. Whether or not you choose to realise it or not, CCP has stated that the reason BPOs were removed was because they do not fit in with their economic model. There may be a limited number of BPOs in the game world but those that exist provide an unlimited isk free supply of items. You may only use yours 1hr/week but others use them more. Regardless, any use of them runs contrary to the economic model CCP has indicated it intends for. But ignoring your personal opinion on them being economy breaking, the point still stands that there is potential for BPOs to come back and bring much needed mechanics to this game, as well as revenue streams for CCP. One day there will be player trading and manufacturing and for these to exist, we will need some model of BPOs to exist. To keep it as it is now at that point (only a few having BPOs and them being completely unavailable to everyone else) would be truly economy breaking. I don't know why you seem keen to oppose my suggestion if you don't even use your BPOs - I'm giving you a way your BPOs can be providing you with a future income even if you don't personally use them! Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Evan Gotabor Prima Gallicus 9	Posted - 2014.02.10 17:44:00 - [34] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Simple...attach the value of the standard item to the bpo so that when it's lost in battle it doesn't cost the owner, but still ads the isk to the payout pool at the end of the match. CCP put bpo's in the game to make money, they made A LOT of money off of them. Why should the community have to deal with CCP not having the foresight and fortitude to realize that they made the mistake? Fix it so suit lost still produces ISK payout, but BPO's should not cost owner anything to use. They should not be consumable in any regard. The problem is not the BPOs not adding to payout; the problem is people getting free unlimited items. Free stuff = no risk = broken risk <> reward mechanics Players with a bpo are veterens => they can play with proto-gear (most of them have large amounts of ISK as well) and only use BPO to farm ISK so they can use more proto or vehicules. So in the end, even the "endless dropsuit" become or out of age, or we use them so we can repay very costly stuff such as ADS because a little Sica which worth less than any of my BPO destroy it from his redline. Gallente logistic dropsuit / Dropship pilot
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2155	Posted - 2014.02.10 17:46:00 - [35] - Quote plaplapla wrote: if BPOs are bad so are starter fits Agreed but starter fits serve a purpose - they are there for when you have no isk/are new. A way to negate this small bump in the problem is to only allow the use of starter fits below a certain isk and/or SP threshold. That way new and poor players would still have a fall back without free unlimited gear impacting on the economy in any way. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2155	Posted - 2014.02.10 17:49:00 - [36] - Quote Evan Gotabor wrote: Django Quik wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Simple...attach the value of the standard item to the bpo so that when it's lost in battle it doesn't cost the owner, but still ads the isk to the payout pool at the end of the match. CCP put bpo's in the game to make money, they made A LOT of money off of them. Why should the community have to deal with CCP not having the foresight and fortitude to realize that they made the mistake? Fix it so suit lost still produces ISK payout, but BPO's should not cost owner anything to use. They should not be consumable in any regard. The problem is not the BPOs not adding to payout; the problem is people getting free unlimited items. Free stuff = no risk = broken risk <> reward mechanics Players with a bpo are veterens => they can play with proto-gear (most of them have large amounts of ISK as well) and only use BPO to farm ISK so they can use more proto or vehicules. So in the end, even the "endless dropsuit" become or out of age, or we use them so we can repay very costly stuff such as ADS because a little Sica which worth less than any of my BPO destroy it from his redline. Well, there's actually another problem there and that's that your proto level skill bonuses affect your mlt BPO gear bringing it up to the level of at least advanced stuff, so you can be perfectly capable of playing a decent game for absolutely no risk whatsoever. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 917	Posted - 2014.02.10 17:52:00 - [37] - Quote Django Quik wrote: How is unlimited free anything not economy breaking? Everyone has access to free starter fit gear. BPOs are only slightly better than those. Do you also propose removing starter fits? BPOs don't really affect the economy in a significan/meaningful way. If I were to pull a number out of my ass, I would guess BPOs probably account for less than 2% of the total ISK in the average battle (just based on what I see killing me in matches). As DUST gets its sh*t together and the playerbase grows, that number will only get smaller over time. You seem way more worked up over the principle of free gear than what the actual effect on the economy would be. If CCP added 100 ISK to the price of every suit/module/weapon etc. and then charged 100 ISK fee for every BPO per fit, the net effect on the economy from BPO use would be zero. CCP is already doing the right thing here. They are not selling new BPOs. The existing ones will become diluted over time as the game improves and the numbers grow. Best PvE idea ever!
The Terminator T-1000 Skynet Incorporated 97	Posted - 2014.02.10 17:54:00 - [38] - Quote I love my BPOs. Thats all I use. I paid real $$$$ for them and if ever removd I will quit this game.
CRNWLLC Screwy Rabbit ULC 24	Posted - 2014.02.10 17:55:00 - [39] - Quote Just because I always have to reply to the "[Insert opinion/problem/fix here] BPO" thread. If you're especially bored, my thoughts are expounded at length here and here. In short: BPOs are awesome, they do not effect the non-existent economy negatively (nor would they if an economy actually existed), they do not lead to gameplay imbalance, and they are a good means of retaining new players, among other marginal benefits. Now to sit back and wait for my respec... Have you seen my baseball?
Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven 356	Posted - 2014.02.10 18:00:00 - [40] - Quote Django Quik wrote: plaplapla wrote: if BPOs are bad so are starter fits Agreed but starter fits serve a purpose - they are there for when you have no isk/are new. A way to negate this small bump in the problem is to only allow the use of starter fits below a certain isk and/or SP threshold. That way new and poor players would still have a fall back without free unlimited gear impacting on the economy in any way. The real problem is not BPO's, it is what you are choosing to focus on. There is no economy, no marketplace, no industry, hardly even a link to EVE side. Your point about starter fits is the same point I'm making about BPO's. When I need to be ISK efficient I have them, but I don't need to be at this point. And neither do the other 90% of the players who have been around since they were available. The bigger issues and the ones you are overlooking IMO, are the lack of an economy. No player market/trading. ISK payouts from PC to pubs need to be overhauled(Including district locking). Lack of playerbase. No ISK generation outside of pubs/PC. I would like to see the actual statistics from CCP's 'economist' showing the number of BPO's used and just how gamebreaking we were lead to believe this is. Count the number of BPO's that kill you, vs number of starter fits I guarantee that BPO's are significantly less. BPO's are the easiest target because 1. CCP removed them and said they were 'gamebreaking' 2. In a game where ISK generation comes one of two ways and one way is 'locked' then you will look for the next easiest target. 3. Not everyone has them, creating the "but I am entitled to one too" concept. I respect you think BPO's are gamebreaking, I just happen to whole-heartedly disagree with you. CCP cannot convince me otherwise until they release some form of actual statistics stating "Players are saving X amount of isk by running BPO's and hoarding Billions of ISK a week"....Because a much, much more game breaking feature currently is the PC district locking which is generation around to 2 billion a week (before your extortion payme...I mean tax) and that money resides in the corp wallets of maybe 8% of this game. Neighborhood Bully prof 5 "Gimme yo lunch money"

Lucrezia LeGrand 304	Posted - 2014.02.10 18:31:00 - [41] - Quote You can do whatever you want with BPO's or BPC's or BP-whatevers released from today (Febuary 10th - some date in the future) but don't limit the original BPO's that were marketed as "unlimited." CCP wanted money, so they sold us a product. They realized a mistake and changed their policies on BPO's, but that doesn't excuse them from the BPO's already sold. I have BPO's and I love them ( run them 80% for the color schemes, 20% for the unlimited aspect). I'll continue using them, and if they come out again I'll continue buying them. But as soon as the product I purchase changes into something completely different, well, then I'm out of here. Just on a side note, if new BPO's are brought in but are limited, depending on how they are implemented, I will buy those too. I have no problem with limited BPO's, but I do have a problem in being lied to when I buy something. Thale groupie
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2155	Posted - 2014.02.10 18:32:00 - [42] - Quote What you naysayers are missing is that regardless of whether BPOs are economy breaking or not, CCP thinks they are and that's why they were removed. Devs publicly stated this when they were removed from the market. It is not just my opinion. My opinion and your opinion on their economy breakingness is irrelevant. My main point with this thread is to bring BPOs back in a useful and meaningful context, so that they can be used by all players if they wish and not just for you selfish people who seem to want to hold onto them as they are currently and be the only ones to benefit from them. My suggestion will further this game and help build the economy that so many of you rightly point out is currently non-existent. In the same breath that CCP announced the removal of BPOs from the marketplace, they stated that they hope to one day bring them back, only not in the same form; well, this is a way they could be brought back and soon. How about instead of naysaying and arguing about whether there's a problem or not, you all acknowledge CCP's position and do something to work towards a solution instead of burying your heads in the sand and saying everything is fine as is. Because I sure as hell would like to see BPOs return and I know a lot of players are looking forward to the player market and (sigh carebear) industrialism/manufacturing and this would be a significant step towards all of that. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2155	Posted - 2014.02.10 18:34:00 - [43] - Quote Lucrezia LeGrand wrote: You can do whatever you want with BPO's or BPC's or BP-whatevers released from today (Febuary 10th - some date in the future) but don't limit the original BPO's that were marketed as "unlimited." CCP wanted money, so they sold us a product. They realized a mistake and changed their policies on BPO's, but that doesn't excuse them from the BPO's already sold. I have BPO's and I love them ( run them 80% for the color schemes, 20% for the unlimited aspect). I'll continue using them, and if they come out again I'll continue buying them. But as soon as the product I purchase changes into something completely different, well, then I'm out of here. Just on a side note, if new BPO's are brought in but are limited, depending on how they are implemented, I will buy those too. I have no problem with limited BPO's, but I do have a problem in being lied to when I buy something. No worries - as with anything, you'll get your aurum back if anything like that happens and I'm sure you'll agree that you got your money's worth with all that gear you've used since you bought those BPOs if/when that happens. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK 297	Posted - 2014.02.10 18:36:00 - [44] - Quote Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Django Quik wrote: plaplapla wrote: if BPOs are bad so are starter fits Agreed but starter fits serve a purpose - they are there for when you have no isk/are new. A way to negate this small bump in the problem is to only allow the use of starter fits below a certain isk and/or SP threshold. That way new and poor players would still have a fall back without free unlimited gear impacting on the economy in any way. The real problem is not BPO's, it is what you are choosing to focus on. There is no economy, no marketplace, no industry, hardly even a link to EVE side. Your point about starter fits is the same point I'm making about BPO's. When I need to be ISK efficient I have them, but I don't need to be at this point. And neither do the other 90% of the players who have been around since they were available. The bigger issues and the ones you are overlooking IMO, are the lack of an economy. No player market/trading. ISK payouts from PC to pubs need to be overhauled(Including district locking). Lack of playerbase. No ISK generation outside of pubs/PC. I would like to see the actual statistics from CCP's 'economist' showing the number of BPO's used and just how gamebreaking we were lead to believe this is. Count the number of BPO's that kill you, vs number of starter fits I guarantee that BPO's are significantly less. BPO's are the easiest target because 1. CCP removed them and said they were 'gamebreaking' 2. In a game where ISK generation comes one of two ways and one way is 'locked' then you will look for the next easiest target. 3. Not everyone has them, creating the "but I am entitled to one too" concept. I respect you think BPO's are gamebreaking, I just happen to whole-heartedly disagree with you. CCP cannot convince me otherwise until they release some form of actual statistics stating "Players are saving X amount of isk by running BPO's and hoarding Billions of ISK a week"....Because a much, much more game breaking feature currently is the PC district locking which is generation around to 2 billion a week (before your extortion payme...I mean tax) and that money resides in the corp wallets of maybe 8% of this game. EDIT: Almost forgot about Scotty. Most if not all problems in Dust can be traced back to Scotty in some form. Until CCP manages to not put academy grads up against 2 full squads of 30+mil vets, we will always have QQ about imbalance. There are some matches where I feel like based on the team I'm on, we should be forced to melee kill with active scanners just to make it fair. But I digress.... I can't believe it but I think I love you right now. Personally I believe BPOs are game effecting, but not game breaking. As you have stated multiple times there are bigger detriments to the (lack of) economy. Also there's an article in the past few weeks about why the EVE economy ticks, talks about scarcity and labor. Hilmar talks about how he lost a miner and worked for weeks to replace it instead of just dev coding a new one. When the DUST econ actually exists then we can come back to this argument CEO of SAM-MIK...sometimes. (shhh don't tell anyone, they'll start asking questions)
Lucrezia LeGrand 305	Posted - 2014.02.10 18:41:00 - [45] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Lucrezia LeGrand wrote: You can do whatever you want with BPO's or BPC's or BP-whatevers released from today (Febuary 10th - some date in the future) but don't limit the original BPO's that were marketed as "unlimited." CCP wanted money, so they sold us a product. They realized a mistake and changed their policies on BPO's, but that doesn't excuse them from the BPO's already sold. I have BPO's and I love them ( run them 80% for the color schemes, 20% for the unlimited aspect). I'll continue using them, and if they come out again I'll continue buying them. But as soon as the product I purchase changes into something completely different, well, then I'm out of here. Just on a side note, if new BPO's are brought in but are limited, depending on how they are implemented, I will buy those too. I have no problem with limited BPO's, but I do have a problem in being lied to when I buy something. No worries - as with anything, you'll get your aurum back if anything like that happens and I'm sure you'll agree that you got your money's worth with all that gear you've used since you bought those BPOs if/when that happens. Yeah, except I didn't spend real money to buy Aurum for items that would run out. So, Aurum that I can use to buy some neo suits that would last me all of one month is poor compensation. Online purchases come down to two categories. Small, expendable, increments of benefit (like usable items, digital currency, xp boosters etc) and permanent purchases (ps1 games, DLC, Resident Evil HD collection, Final Fantasy costumes etc). I bought the new starter kit. That is an expendable item, and I did so knowingly. I bought the Merc Pack for Dragonfly BPO's. That was supposed to be a permanent item in our inventory. Two different reasons for buying something, two different expectations. Thale groupie
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK 299	Posted - 2014.02.10 18:42:00 - [46] - Quote Django Quik wrote: What you naysayers are missing is that regardless of whether BPOs are economy breaking or not, CCP thinks they are and that's why they were removed. Devs publicly stated this when they were removed from the market. It is not just my opinion. My opinion and your opinion on their economy breakingness is irrelevant. My main point with this thread is to bring BPOs back in a useful and meaningful context, so that they can be used by all players if they wish and not just for you selfish people who seem to want to hold onto them as they are currently and be the only ones to benefit from them. My suggestion will further this game and help build the economy that so many of you rightly point out is currently non-existent. In the same breath that CCP announced the removal of BPOs from the marketplace, they stated that they hope to one day bring them back, only not in the same form; well, this is a way they could be brought back and soon. How about instead of naysaying and arguing about whether there's a problem or not, you all acknowledge CCP's position and do something to work towards a solution instead of burying your heads in the sand and saying everything is fine as is. Because I sure as hell would like to see BPOs return and I know a lot of players are looking forward to the player market and (sigh carebear) industrialism/manufacturing and this would be a significant step towards all of that. You are aware that CCP has a "no manufacturing in DUST" stance right? At the absolute most a PC district would passively collect a new EVE material we d hand over to them. CEO of SAM-MIK...sometimes. (shhh don't tell anyone, they'll start asking questions)
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2156	Posted - 2014.02.10 18:51:00 - [47] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: You are aware that CCP has a "no manufacturing in DUST" stance right? At the absolute most a PC district would passively collect a new EVE material we d hand over to them. That stance was announced many many months, if not over a year, ago. There's a new guy in charge now and many many things have changed since then. CCP are also keen to not have the two economies too strongly linked for whatever reason (probably scared we'll break the mothership that is Eve somehow), so having us entirely reliant on Eve for our gear would not be sensible from any point of view. An MMO without crafting is only half an MMO - and yes, I do realise that there is barely any MMO to this game at all right now but this would be a decent step towards it. Think about the future, people! Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 920	Posted - 2014.02.10 18:55:00 - [48] - Quote Django Quik wrote: What you naysayers are missing is that regardless of whether BPOs are economy breaking or not, CCP thinks they are and that's why they were removed. Devs publicly stated this when they were removed from the market. It is not just my opinion. My opinion and your opinion on their economy breakingness is irrelevant. My main point with this thread is to bring BPOs back in a useful and meaningful context, so that they can be used by all players if they wish and not just for you selfish people who seem to want to hold onto them as they are currently and be the only ones to benefit from them. My suggestion will further this game and help build the economy that so many of you rightly point out is currently non-existent. In the same breath that CCP announced the removal of BPOs from the marketplace, they stated that they hope to one day bring them back, only not in the same form; well, this is a way they could be brought back and soon. How about instead of naysaying and arguing about whether there's a problem or not, you all acknowledge CCP's position and do something to work towards a solution instead of burying your heads in the sand and saying everything is fine as is. Because I sure as hell would like to see BPOs return and I know a lot of players are looking forward to the player market and (sigh carebear) industrialism/manufacturing and this would be a significant step towards all of that. CCP never said they were "game breaking" that was the term you used. I'm pretty sure they used the phrase "they are not good for the economy." There is a huge difference. They stopped selling them as a result, and the current solution will see BPOs naturally decline as a percentage of ISK in battle over time as vets quit, new players come in and dilute the existing BPOs. Best PvE idea ever!
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2156	Posted - 2014.02.10 19:04:00 - [49] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Django Quik wrote: What you naysayers are missing is that regardless of whether BPOs are economy breaking or not, CCP thinks they are and that's why they were removed. Devs publicly stated this when they were removed from the market. It is not just my opinion. My opinion and your opinion on their economy breakingness is irrelevant. My main point with this thread is to bring BPOs back in a useful and meaningful context, so that they can be used by all players if they wish and not just for you selfish people who seem to want to hold onto them as they are currently and be the only ones to benefit from them. My suggestion will further this game and help build the economy that so many of you rightly point out is currently non-existent. In the same breath that CCP announced the removal of BPOs from the marketplace, they stated that they hope to one day bring them back, only not in the same form; well, this is a way they could be brought back and soon. How about instead of naysaying and arguing about whether there's a problem or not, you all acknowledge CCP's position and do something to work towards a solution instead of burying your heads in the sand and saying everything is fine as is. Because I sure as hell would like to see BPOs return and I know a lot of players are looking forward to the player market and (sigh carebear) industrialism/manufacturing and this would be a significant step towards all of that. CCP never said they were "game breaking" that was the term you used. I'm pretty sure they used the phrase "they are not good for the economy." There is a huge difference. They stopped selling them as a result, and the current solution will see BPOs naturally decline as a percentage of ISK in battle over time as vets quit, new players come in and dilute the existing BPOs. A tiny semantic difference actually (CCP would not use the term 'game breaking') but the result is the same - no more BPOs. However, you can not ignore the fact that they said they wanted to bring them back in some other form. The 'current solution' is not a solution; it is nothing and it doesn't further this game in any way. My suggestion brings BPOs back in a useful and meaningful way and will provide a platform for other even bigger aspects of this game to develop. All I've seen from the negative people so far is reasons why there's nothing wrong with BPOs and no reasons why there's anything wrong with my proposal. How about you analyse the idea instead of arguing about the background? Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Lucrezia LeGrand 306	Posted - 2014.02.10 19:11:00 - [50] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Vell0cet wrote: Django Quik wrote: What you naysayers are missing is that regardless of whether BPOs are economy breaking or not, CCP thinks they are and that's why they were removed. Devs publicly stated this when they were removed from the market. It is not just my opinion. My opinion and your opinion on their economy breakingness is irrelevant. My main point with this thread is to bring BPOs back in a useful and meaningful context, so that they can be used by all players if they wish and not just for you selfish people who seem to want to hold onto them as they are currently and be the only ones to benefit from them. My suggestion will further this game and help build the economy that so many of you rightly point out is currently non-existent. In the same breath that CCP announced the removal of BPOs from the marketplace, they stated that they hope to one day bring them back, only not in the same form; well, this is a way they could be brought back and soon. How about instead of naysaying and arguing about whether there's a problem or not, you all acknowledge CCP's position and do something to work towards a solution instead of burying your heads in the sand and saying everything is fine as is. Because I sure as hell would like to see BPOs return and I know a lot of players are looking forward to the player market and (sigh carebear) industrialism/manufacturing and this would be a significant step towards all of that. CCP never said they were "game breaking" that was the term you used. I'm pretty sure they used the phrase "they are not good for the economy." There is a huge difference. They stopped selling them as a result, and the current solution will see BPOs naturally decline as a percentage of ISK in battle over time as vets quit, new players come in and dilute the existing BPOs. A tiny semantic difference actually (CCP would not use the term 'game breaking') but the result is the same - no more BPOs. However, you can not ignore the fact that they said they wanted to bring them back in some other form. The 'current solution' is not a solution; it is nothing and it doesn't further this game in any way. My suggestion brings BPOs back in a useful and meaningful way and will provide a platform for other even bigger aspects of this game to develop. All I've seen from the negative people so far is reasons why there's nothing wrong with BPOs and no reasons why there's anything wrong with my proposal. How about you analyse the idea instead of arguing about the background? Your idea is a good one and valid, and one I would be willing to try. However, most of the posts from the "negative people" have been along the lines of "please, don't touch the BPO's that we already own" and they have an equally valid point of view as well. Do you own any BPO's? I find that once you have spent money on an actual product (instead of sitting on the side-lines wishing you could have) it changes your viewpoint of how you feel about that item. Let CCP do whatever they want with future BPO's, but know where we're coming from. Thale groupie

INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 248	Posted - 2014.02.10 19:18:00 - [51] - Quote Drapedup Drippedout wrote: BPO's were fixed when they removed them from the market. I still have all of my Dren bpos and while I use the hell out of the assault, scout, heavy, ar, and sometimes my dren shotty bpo, I feel like if their are bpos for basic ar and scrambler rifle not to mention scr pistol and subs then we should have them for the other wespons as well, I want a blue printed original rail rifle to make a complete Caldari fit. I think the bpo system we had was great the problem is and was that we didnt have every racial weapon and suit of which basic level bpos could be created. I want more bpos not less so that the day doesnt come when ccp comes after my Dren gear, which im afraid is inevitable if they dont go the other way and make bpos for everything else. But even though they removed some bpos and took them off the market their are lots out there.
Yelhsa Jin-Mao Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 334	Posted - 2014.02.10 19:25:00 - [52] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Simple...attach the value of the standard item to the bpo so that when it's lost in battle it doesn't cost the owner, but still ads the isk to the payout pool at the end of the match. CCP put bpo's in the game to make money, they made A LOT of money off of them. Why should the community have to deal with CCP not having the foresight and fortitude to realize that they made the mistake? Fix it so suit lost still produces ISK payout, but BPO's should not cost owner anything to use. They should not be consumable in any regard. The problem is not the BPOs not adding to payout; the problem is people getting free unlimited items. Free stuff = no risk = broken risk <> reward mechanics The problem is you are just jealous, and it's pretty pathetic. BPOs were a commodity, a commodity which people had to pay for, and like all commodities, there are those who have and those who don't. Don't like it, tough ****, that's capitalism B-I-T-C-H! I can has ISK
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 248	Posted - 2014.02.10 19:32:00 - [53] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Please note that it is CCP's position that BPOs are economy breaking, so it is irrelevant if you disagree - instead of arguing about there not being a problem, let's talk about the idea below and how it could further this game. It's been said by CCP and others many times that BPOs break the game economy because they provide a free unlimited supply of items (albeit low value ones but the value is irrelevant in the big picture anyway). However, BPOs are an intrisic part of the New Eden universe and could continue to be a fantastic way for CCP to bring in revenue. The following idea does not vary hugely from the current/old situation and potentially could be implemented in time for fanfest (depending on what is already lined up for dev sprints over the next few months): 1) Create BPOs for every single item in the game (excluding officer salvage) 2) Make them cost many millions of isk / lots of aurum 3) BPOs no longer provide free unlimited items but players get the BPO'd items for much cheaper than the BPC market value 4) BPCs are still available from the main market at current prices (or increased prices, whatever) The next step would be to provide players with the ability to purchase manufacturing materials from NPC (and later Eve) mining corps, which would be required to create items from BPO plans. This would restore BPOs to useful items both to players and CCP without breaking the economy or future possibilities of the player market; in fact it would provide a starting platform for both manufacturing and the player market as well as fitting in well with the way BPOs and BPCs have worked in Eve for years. Some caveats to control the effect of BPOs on the current game economy could be: - Militia BPOs cost up to 10 million isk each - Standard BPOs cost up to 50 million isk each - Advanced BPOs cost up to 100 million isk each - Proto BPOs are extremely rare salvage only (say 0.01% chance) Up to Advanced BPOs could have a 0.1% salvage chance. A new BPO section could be added to the marketplace with up to Advanced BPOs available for aurum of similar values to what they were before they were removed from the market. The price of items created from BPOs could be 1/2 of the market price making them long term investments, so players buying them would feel like they have to keep playing to get the full value of what they have bought. In the future, when we have a player market, manufacturing time and materials cost could be added, so that players can't just quickly flood the market with cheap gear and undermine the economy. I dont care what they come up with as long as they dont touch all the bpos ive already paid for which would probably happen with your idea so I cant go for it, whatever ccp does they need to find a way to support those who supported them.
Yelhsa Jin-Mao Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 334	Posted - 2014.02.10 19:32:00 - [54] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: So a blueprint that saves at most a couple of thousand isk is a problem to the economy? Yet PC corps with god knows how many locked districts that still create millions of isk a day in passive form is ok? LOL People who complain about BPOs but ignore multi million ISK generating districts which are constantly locked down by huge mega corps are a cancer on this game. In fact, I hope they get cancer. I can has ISK
Yelhsa Jin-Mao Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 334	Posted - 2014.02.10 19:35:00 - [55] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Before we start fixing the drastical influence of BPO's that save a few thousend ISk per battle, CCP should fix PCQ farming where everyday MILLIONS of ISK is thrown in economy for free day by day (BTW what economy???) This. I hope anyone who wants to get rid of BPOs gets cancer I can has ISK
Lucrezia LeGrand 307	Posted - 2014.02.10 19:38:00 - [56] - Quote Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: So a blueprint that saves at most a couple of thousand isk is a problem to the economy? Yet PC corps with god knows how many locked districts that still create millions of isk a day in passive form is ok? LOL People who complain about BPOs but ignore multi million ISK generating districts which are constantly locked down by huge mega corps are a cancer on this game. In fact, I hope they get cancer. district locking is a much much much x10000 worse problem than BPO's but yikes! Cancer? Really? That's kind of harsh. But I'm not too worried. CCP is made up of people just like us, they read the forums, they play the games. I'm pretty sure they're aware of what it would feel like to get our BPO's taken away. But I do welcome new BPO's in whatever form they take. Thale groupie
Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven 365	Posted - 2014.02.10 19:46:00 - [57] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: BPO's were fixed when they removed them from the market. I still have all of my Dren bpos and while I use the hell out of the assault, scout, heavy, ar, and sometimes my dren shotty bpo, I feel like if their are bpos for basic ar and scrambler rifle not to mention scr pistol and subs then we should have them for the other wespons as well, I want a blue printed original rail rifle to make a complete Caldari fit. I think the bpo system we had was great the problem is and was that we didnt have every racial weapon and suit of which basic level bpos could be created. I want more bpos not less so that the day doesnt come when ccp comes after my Dren gear, which im afraid is inevitable if they dont go the other way and make bpos for everything else. But even though they removed some bpos and took them off the market their are lots out there. They are debating an aurum purchase that will allow you switch races with BPO suits, turning your dren scout into caldari for example. No dice on the RR BPO tho Neighborhood Bully prof 5 "Gimme yo lunch money"
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 251	Posted - 2014.02.10 19:59:00 - [58] - Quote Django Quik wrote: plaplapla wrote: if BPOs are bad so are starter fits Agreed but starter fits serve a purpose - they are there for when you have no isk/are new. A way to negate this small bump in the problem is to only allow the use of starter fits below a certain isk and/or SP threshold. That way new and poor players would still have a fall back without free unlimited gear impacting on the economy in any way. And for the record CCPS reference to the economy means THEIR economy not ours. Bpos are not breaking our game, neither are starter fits, whats really got these guys pissed is when my 10,000 isk bpo dren scout with remotes is hiding and uses remotes to blow the **** out of the proto suit your running in pubs, lmao remoted a guy with a krins 2 days ago, so sweet. See the fact is Dren > proto in many ways and all these scrubs dying to vet players with core skills and bpos are mad about, im not saying thats the case with quik, but for some peo9le yes. And some people that couldnt afford bpos are mad, others that started playing after they were gone are mad.
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 251	Posted - 2014.02.10 20:04:00 - [59] - Quote Drapedup Drippedout wrote: INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: BPO's were fixed when they removed them from the market. I still have all of my Dren bpos and while I use the hell out of the assault, scout, heavy, ar, and sometimes my dren shotty bpo, I feel like if their are bpos for basic ar and scrambler rifle not to mention scr pistol and subs then we should have them for the other wespons as well, I want a blue printed original rail rifle to make a complete Caldari fit. I think the bpo system we had was great the problem is and was that we didnt have every racial weapon and suit of which basic level bpos could be created. I want more bpos not less so that the day doesnt come when ccp comes after my Dren gear, which im afraid is inevitable if they dont go the other way and make bpos for everything else. But even though they removed some bpos and took them off the market their are lots out there. They are debating an aurum purchase that will allow you switch races with BPO suits, turning your dren scout into caldari for example. No dice on the RR BPO tho ^ This..... Sweet!!!!!
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2156	Posted - 2014.02.10 20:05:00 - [60] - Quote Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote: Django Quik wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Simple...attach the value of the standard item to the bpo so that when it's lost in battle it doesn't cost the owner, but still ads the isk to the payout pool at the end of the match. CCP put bpo's in the game to make money, they made A LOT of money off of them. Why should the community have to deal with CCP not having the foresight and fortitude to realize that they made the mistake? Fix it so suit lost still produces ISK payout, but BPO's should not cost owner anything to use. They should not be consumable in any regard. The problem is not the BPOs not adding to payout; the problem is people getting free unlimited items. Free stuff = no risk = broken risk <> reward mechanics The problem is you are just jealous, and it's pretty pathetic. BPOs were a commodity, a commodity which people had to pay for, and like all commodities, there are those who have and those who don't. Don't like it, tough ****, that's capitalism B-I-T-C-H! I have BPOs and if you read the thread, you'd know that. And for the record, I have no said anything about taking away BPOs from anyone. CCP may well choose to leave those as they are, since as some people have rightly already pointed out, they will slowly dwindle in number as the vets who own them disappear under a sea of blueberries. My proposal, before you tried to insult and offend large numbers of people and derail the thread, could easily be implemented on top of what currently exists within the game, whilst extending and developing it for the future and greater good. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts

INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 251	Posted - 2014.02.10 20:07:00 - [61] - Quote Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: So a blueprint that saves at most a couple of thousand isk is a problem to the economy? Yet PC corps with god knows how many locked districts that still create millions of isk a day in passive form is ok? LOL People who complain about BPOs but ignore multi million ISK generating districts which are constantly locked down by huge mega corps are a cancer on this game. In fact, I hope they get cancer. I only play pc when Im asked to play by someone whos willing to pay me, as for locking districts I thought that was how you win pc, the first corp to capture all the districts and lock them shutting down pc wins right?????
Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven 368	Posted - 2014.02.10 20:07:00 - [62] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: BPO's were fixed when they removed them from the market. I still have all of my Dren bpos and while I use the hell out of the assault, scout, heavy, ar, and sometimes my dren shotty bpo, I feel like if their are bpos for basic ar and scrambler rifle not to mention scr pistol and subs then we should have them for the other wespons as well, I want a blue printed original rail rifle to make a complete Caldari fit. I think the bpo system we had was great the problem is and was that we didnt have every racial weapon and suit of which basic level bpos could be created. I want more bpos not less so that the day doesnt come when ccp comes after my Dren gear, which im afraid is inevitable if they dont go the other way and make bpos for everything else. But even though they removed some bpos and took them off the market their are lots out there. They are debating an aurum purchase that will allow you switch races with BPO suits, turning your dren scout into caldari for example. No dice on the RR BPO tho ^ This..... Sweet!!!!! Check the bi weekly updates and discussions section in feedback/requests or whatever it's called now, most recent post. It's stickied at top Neighborhood Bully prof 5 "Gimme yo lunch money"
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2156	Posted - 2014.02.10 20:09:00 - [63] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: Django Quik wrote: plaplapla wrote: if BPOs are bad so are starter fits Agreed but starter fits serve a purpose - they are there for when you have no isk/are new. A way to negate this small bump in the problem is to only allow the use of starter fits below a certain isk and/or SP threshold. That way new and poor players would still have a fall back without free unlimited gear impacting on the economy in any way. And for the record CCPS reference to the economy means THEIR economy not ours. Bpos are not breaking our game, neither are starter fits, whats really got these guys pissed is when my 10,000 isk bpo dren scout with remotes is hiding and uses remotes to blow the **** out of the proto suit your running in pubs, lmao remoted a guy with a krins 2 days ago, so sweet. See the fact is Dren > proto in many ways and all these scrubs dying to vet players with core skills and bpos are mad about, im not saying thats the case with quik, but for some peo9le yes. And some people that couldnt afford bpos are mad, others that started playing after they were gone are mad. I agree with Infinite on this and everyone else who points out what a small proportion of the game's isk is lost to nothingness because people lose BPOs instead of BPCs - it is less affecting our game than it is obviously not working from CCP's point of view and not in line with how they view the future of the Dust economy. And this thread was never meant to be an attack on BPOs in any form - it is simply a solution that would allow them to be brought back in a useful and meaningful manner. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
NomaDz 2K The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 119	Posted - 2014.02.10 20:16:00 - [64] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Lucrezia LeGrand wrote: You can do whatever you want with BPO's or BPC's or BP-whatevers released from today (Febuary 10th - some date in the future) but don't limit the original BPO's that were marketed as "unlimited." CCP wanted money, so they sold us a product. They realized a mistake and changed their policies on BPO's, but that doesn't excuse them from the BPO's already sold. I have BPO's and I love them ( run them 80% for the color schemes, 20% for the unlimited aspect). I'll continue using them, and if they come out again I'll continue buying them. But as soon as the product I purchase changes into something completely different, well, then I'm out of here. Just on a side note, if new BPO's are brought in but are limited, depending on how they are implemented, I will buy those too. I have no problem with limited BPO's, but I do have a problem in being lied to when I buy something. No worries - as with anything, you'll get your aurum back if anything like that happens and I'm sure you'll agree that you got your money's worth with all that gear you've used since you bought those BPOs if/when that happens. Or, U CAN DO BETTER AND GET A FULL CASH REFUND BASED UPON WHAT U FEEL IS RIGHT! PSN REFUND FOR BLUE PRINTS Peac3 DON'T SPEND CA$H ON DUST 514 CCP WILL ONLY GIVE YOU AUR AFTER THEY REMOVE YOUR BPOs WHICH U SPENT REAL MONGé¼Y ON!
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2156	Posted - 2014.02.10 20:19:00 - [65] - Quote @NomaDz 2K and Lucrezia LeGrand - can we not derail this thread any further with talk of BPO refunds or whatever; that is not what this thread is about. It is about how we can get BPOs brought back in a useful and meaningful manner that will further the game and benefit everyone., Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 251	Posted - 2014.02.10 20:21:00 - [66] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote: Django Quik wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Simple...attach the value of the standard item to the bpo so that when it's lost in battle it doesn't cost the owner, but still ads the isk to the payout pool at the end of the match. CCP put bpo's in the game to make money, they made A LOT of money off of them. Why should the community have to deal with CCP not having the foresight and fortitude to realize that they made the mistake? Fix it so suit lost still produces ISK payout, but BPO's should not cost owner anything to use. They should not be consumable in any regard. The problem is not the BPOs not adding to payout; the problem is people getting free unlimited items. Free stuff = no risk = broken risk <> reward mechanics The problem is you are just jealous, and it's pretty pathetic. BPOs were a commodity, a commodity which people had to pay for, and like all commodities, there are those who have and those who don't. Don't like it, tough **, that's capitalism B-I-T-C-H! I have BPOs and if you read the thread, you'd know that. And for the record, I have no said anything about taking away BPOs from anyone. CCP may well choose to leave those as they are, since as some people have rightly already pointed out, they will slowly dwindle in number as the vets who own them disappear under a sea of blueberries. My proposal, before you tried to insult and offend large numbers of people and derail the thread, could easily be implemented on top of what currently exists within the game, whilst extending and developing it for the future and greater good. I get what your saying I even like the idea, I dont want to mine though, Id rather have a chance to earn the materials needed to use the bpo by providing security as part of a group of contracted mercs paid to be garrisoned on a mining ship or our own ships that are part of a mining fleet which provides security against other pirating and marauding mercs which would have incentive to not simply destroy our ships in space but rather use something you brillant nerds will invent to attempt to board and take control of said ships with only an elite squad or 2 of new eden caldaris finest heavys scouts logis and assaults to defend and indeed repel these pirates, of which im sure would be gallente scum as the master race doesnt pirate. I know thats crazy **, just saying im down with the rpg, mmo aspect just not removing bpos.
NomaDz 2K The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 119	Posted - 2014.02.10 20:24:00 - [67] - Quote Django Quik wrote: @NomaDz 2K and Lucrezia LeGrand - can we not derail this thread any further with talk of BPO refunds or whatever; that is not what this thread is about. It is about how we can get BPOs brought back in a useful and meaningful manner that will further the game and benefit everyone., EAT ME This isn't being DERAILED it's about what U stated, MOST of those which purchased BPOs DIDn'T Want a FUKIN AUR REFUND This is why some of us were actually smart enough to PROTECT OUR CONSUMER RIGHTS - Whch means Cash or Exchange. CCP were NOT willing to EXCHANGE so NP Sony were willing to deal with it the way it should be. DON'T SPEND CA$H ON DUST 514 CCP WILL ONLY GIVE YOU AUR AFTER THEY REMOVE YOUR BPOs WHICH U SPENT REAL MONGé¼Y ON!*
Leonid Tybalt Dark Knightz Corp. 239	Posted - 2014.02.10 20:30:00 - [68] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Remove all free suits while you're at it, does nothing but ruin the economy Yes. Can't believe ccp made the same mistake twice. Just look how broken Eve's economy is due to all those free Ibises, equipped with free mining lasers and a weapon that has UNLIMITED AMMO to boot! Why on earth would anyone pay isk for flying other ships or even buy ammo when you can run in free Ibises for ever and ever?
Squagga The State Protectorate 210	Posted - 2014.02.10 20:36:00 - [69] - Quote I don't care if they get rid of all the BPOs. Also I don't think that BPOs are hurting the economy that badly. More Importantly whats hurting the economy is buying NPC BPCs. Should just let the EVE pilots make the BPCs and tehn sell em to us. Wouldn't be implemented today but it wouldn't take that long. Better economy better DUST/EVE integration Reloading, the silent killer.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1229	Posted - 2014.02.10 20:52:00 - [70] - Quote there's no manufacture in your concept here.

INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 251	Posted - 2014.02.10 20:55:00 - [71] - Quote Squagga wrote: I don't care if they get rid of all the BPOs. Also I don't think that BPOs are hurting the economy that badly. More Importantly whats hurting the economy is buying NPC BPCs. Should just let the EVE pilots make the BPCs and tehn sell em to us. Wouldn't be implemented today but it wouldn't take that long. Better economy better DUST/EVE integration Said it for a long time, eve should be making and selling us our gear.
OZAROW 0uter.Heaven 1379	Posted - 2014.02.10 21:01:00 - [72] - Quote Untill you fix the " district bpo" people locking districts an collecting billions of free isk everyday an players doing one sided pc making millions everyday, don't even purpose we fix bpos first SUPER NOVA KNIFE SAIYAN 4
Nirwanda Vaughns 326	Posted - 2014.02.10 21:40:00 - [73] - Quote to initially buy a bpo should require aur, then allow them to be resold for isk as and when needed. CCP have always said aur items can be resold for isk in the same mechanic as in eve. a person with little rl money and lots of time can be just as competitive as a player with little time but more rl money. by disallowing bpo sale for extravagant amounts of isk goes against everything in new Eden. the economy should eventually but fully player run just as in eve but for the time being just allow us to at least sell salvage junk back at an NPC price just so I can clear out all the tat in my hangar lol Proto and proud!!
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3420	Posted - 2014.02.10 22:10:00 - [74] - Quote It seems pointless to "fix" the BPO issue given the fact they're no longer flowing into the economy, they're only STD/MLT items, and Dust has no actual economy to speak of. People can generate millions through PC, and have. People have amassed millions/billions of ISK outside of that, and the BPOs weren't a significant factor (literally fractions of the value). People don't have things to spend ISK on. The fact BPOs exist/don't-exist doesn't really change that. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Squagga The State Protectorate 216	Posted - 2014.02.10 22:50:00 - [75] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: Squagga wrote: I don't care if they get rid of all the BPOs. Also I don't think that BPOs are hurting the economy that badly. More Importantly whats hurting the economy is buying NPC BPCs. Should just let the EVE pilots make the BPCs and tehn sell em to us. Wouldn't be implemented today but it wouldn't take that long. Better economy better DUST/EVE integration Said it for a long time, eve should be making and selling us our gear. +1 to sir! You amazing well armed bastard! Even the pilots I talked to wanna do this. The double hell CCP? Reloading, the silent killer.
Lucrezia LeGrand 310	Posted - 2014.02.10 22:53:00 - [76] - Quote Django Quik wrote: @NomaDz 2K and Lucrezia LeGrand - can we not derail this thread any further with talk of BPO refunds or whatever; that is not what this thread is about. It is about how we can get BPOs brought back in a useful and meaningful manner that will further the game and benefit everyone., I wasn't trying to derail the thread. I was responding to a post you made where you said an Aurum refund was a perfectly acceptable compensation to losing a BPO. I disagree. I also said that I like your idea for "future" BPO's and would be willing to support CCP in that regard. CCP has to find a way to monetize Dust 514, and bringing back BPO's in one way or another would be a great way of doing that (as long as they don't change already existing BPO's). The truth is BPO's sell. Alternative color schemes sell. small unique fittings (even if they are crap fittings) sell. Anything cosmetic sells. Anything that allows player initiative and meta gaming (like manufacturing your own stuff) sells. So I support a new type of BPO. Thale groupie
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 252	Posted - 2014.02.11 00:45:00 - [77] - Quote Lucrezia LeGrand wrote: Django Quik wrote: @NomaDz 2K and Lucrezia LeGrand - can we not derail this thread any further with talk of BPO refunds or whatever; that is not what this thread is about. It is about how we can get BPOs brought back in a useful and meaningful manner that will further the game and benefit everyone., I wasn't trying to derail the thread. I was responding to a post you made where you said an Aurum refund was a perfectly acceptable compensation to losing a BPO. I disagree. I also said that I like your idea for "future" BPO's and would be willing to support CCP in that regard. CCP has to find a way to monetize Dust 514, and bringing back BPO's in one way or another would be a great way of doing that (as long as they don't change already existing BPO's). The truth is BPO's sell. Alternative color schemes sell. small unique fittings (even if they are crap fittings) sell. Anything cosmetic sells. Anything that allows player initiative and meta gaming (like manufacturing your own stuff) sells. So I support a new type of BPO. Totally agree, man if they would just sell bpo skins that we could camo out our suit of choice with id buy all kinds, the problem for them making money isnt bpos, its that they dont make enough new and creative ones to continue selling, if you had a bpo for the basic version of everything in the game that would sell, and not like the old ones, "Miltia shield extender blue print" boooooo, I want the " Kalakiota starburst shield extender" and when im wearing them I should have orange and yellow starburts on my shoulders to properly accentuate the master race.
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 252	Posted - 2014.02.11 00:51:00 - [78] - Quote OZAROW wrote: Untill you fix the " district bpo" people locking districts an collecting billions of free isk everyday an players doing one sided pc making millions everyday, don't even purpose we fix bpos first + 1 cause "district bpo" had me lol. And its true
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 264	Posted - 2014.02.11 00:54:00 - [79] - Quote BPO are not affecting the economy in any way. Sure you can use BPO now and then, and brag about them in the war-barge etc... But they have no real competitive use, and considering our little but Hardcore gaming community... I mean im pretty sure no one goes into a PC with BPO XD MAG [ + ] AIMBOT AceOfJokers666
PLAYSTTION GamersForChrist 28	Posted - 2014.02.11 00:59:00 - [80] - Quote The advanced BPO and officer proto ect. i think are a bad idea. the eve part is good though. Eve players mining for materials to make BPOs. And with all the isk the merc is saving the eve player can get payed. OR just limit BPO's by only giving out in codes acquired from fanfest, E3, or other events, therefore limiting BPOs enough that it doesn't matter. And if the player base grows the could be a badge meaning your a vet 5 years from now. I support everything except removal of our precious BPOs -Open Beta Vet-13.1 mil sp- Dust 514 recruitment link here

Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2163	Posted - 2014.02.11 08:14:00 - [81] - Quote low genius wrote: there's no manufacture in your concept here. The manufacturing is mentioned towards the end of the OP - but it is an afterthought and wouldn't be viable in the short term; however the concept proposed sets up the Dust universe for future manufacturing at some point. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2163	Posted - 2014.02.11 08:20:00 - [82] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: to initially buy a bpo should require aur, then allow them to be resold for isk as and when needed. CCP have always said aur items can be resold for isk in the same mechanic as in eve. a person with little rl money and lots of time can be just as competitive as a player with little time but more rl money. by disallowing bpo sale for extravagant amounts of isk goes against everything in new Eden. the economy should eventually but fully player run just as in eve but for the time being just allow us to at least sell salvage junk back at an NPC price just so I can clear out all the tat in my hangar lol Allowing these new BPOs to be sold for massive amounts of isk would be a stop gap fix until player trading comes in - if P2P market is there when these come in, I'd agree to the aur only thing but until then, they need to be available to all somehow. But in essence I agree with you. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2163	Posted - 2014.02.11 08:21:00 - [83] - Quote OZAROW wrote: Untill you fix the " district bpo" people locking districts an collecting billions of free isk everyday an players doing one sided pc making millions everyday, don't even purpose we fix bpos first Agreed - the PC locking thing is the biggest blight on the Dust economy currently and absolutely needs to be fixed but this proposal could also be implemented at the same time and provide a much wanted return of BPOs and enrich the game further. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2163	Posted - 2014.02.11 08:27:00 - [84] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: It seems pointless to "fix" the BPO issue given the fact they're no longer flowing into the economy, they're only STD/MLT items, and Dust has no actual economy to speak of. People can generate millions through PC, and have. People have amassed millions/billions of ISK outside of that, and the BPOs weren't a significant factor (literally fractions of the value). People don't have things to spend ISK on. The fact BPOs exist/don't-exist doesn't really change that. The fact that they're no longer available gives all the more reason to 'fix' BPOs. Having a small number of players owning something that is absolutely unavailable to others and always will be is locking content and that is something CCP has always said they're against. Agreed - Dust has no economy... yet. PC is the biggest problem in the would be economy and people do have millions of isk. BPOs were seen as a problem by CCP for their future economic plans, so were removed from the market, despite the tiny effect they were likely having overall. That is the background. Now let's look at what this idea I've proposed could do: 1) Give people something to spend their millions of isk on 2) Allow access to BPOs for all (for a very very steep price) 3) Set the scene for future trading and manufacturing These are small but important steps towards us gaining the player driven economy so many want and we all know is currently utterly non-existent. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Chuckles Brown 4	Posted - 2014.02.11 08:39:00 - [85] - Quote Ugh... no, just no... You can't have every item a BPO. You would eliminate ALL risk vs. reward, especially in the PC arena. BPOs were fine the way they were. The REAL reason they removed them was because the new GM of DUST 514 is a known parasite money leaching scrub. Of course his first order of business was to remove the one thing you could buy with AURUM just once and never have to buy more AURUM ever again with... The Official alt of 8213 Do you pub, brah?
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2163	Posted - 2014.02.11 08:47:00 - [86] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: Ugh... no, just no... You can't have every item a BPO. You would eliminate ALL risk vs. reward, especially in the PC arena. BPOs were fine the way they were. The REAL reason they removed them was because the new GM of DUST 514 is a known parasite money leaching scrub. Of course his first order of business was to remove the one thing you could buy with AURUM just once and never have to buy more AURUM ever again with... Did you actually read the entire OP? It's not that long. These BPOs would not be the same as the old BPOs - you'd have to pay isk and maybe even spend time to refill the gear they provide; they would not be an unlimited supply of free gear from point of sale onwards. These new BPOs would give people something to spend aurum on again. Hell, maybe there could even be new aurum boosters to reduce the time it takes to "manufacture" from these BPOs. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Yan Darn DUST University Ivy League 180	Posted - 2014.02.11 09:18:00 - [87] - Quote looks at sig quietly backs away j/k - I agree with general vision laid out here it's just...for all this to come together and mean something (because really, ISK, BPOs, 'the economy' - it's all meaningless with the way the game currently is), it seems that: 1. ~~We need a player market introduced~~ District locking needs fixing. 2. We need a player market introduced. 3. We need to introduce minerals/manufacturing. 4. We need PVE to help keep manufacturing carebears supplied. Then ideally 5: link to EVE market - creating manufacturing/mineral supply/demand system so the two games can actually give a **** about each other. With that - the whole issue of DUST mercs being able to travel to say, Jita and access the market there... I mean I have faith in CCP, but it makes me wonder whether it was ever worth investing any money in this game. I don't mean that in a bitter way, just...it seems quite a task doesn't it? You probably don't know me. But next time you get gunned down or exploded by a Valor scout...check the name.
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game 258	Posted - 2014.02.11 09:20:00 - [88] - Quote nope nope nope. its this simple make the current bpo's vanity items that cant be bought but act as an eve bpo would ie cost materials to make. manufactering should never send isk into some blackhole. that defies the point of a player driven market. market first then sort the bpo's out. and proto bpo's salvage only? sod off thats almost as bad as the t2 bpo's in eve. and cost 50% of the market value to build? erm no more like 95% like eve bpo's you can still make a profit. (huge profits if you're smart about it) also if you dont actully own any bpo's you can also sod off you have no right to comment on them.
Marc Rime 238	Posted - 2014.02.11 10:34:00 - [89] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Please note that it is CCP's position that BPOs are economy breaking (...) It's been said by CCP (...) many times that BPOs break the game economy because they provide a free unlimited supply of items (...) Citation please.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2167	Posted - 2014.02.11 12:46:00 - [90] - Quote Marc Rime wrote: Django Quik wrote: Please note that it is CCP's position that BPOs are economy breaking (...) It's been said by CCP (...) many times that BPOs break the game economy because they provide a free unlimited supply of items (...) Citation please. EDIT (clarification): Where have they said BPOs were removed because they were breaking the economy? Okay, so the specific words used were "not functioning as intended" - classic politician speak for we made something broken but we don't want to admit it outright. CCP Logibro wrote: Hey all, We just wanted to clarify statements made about the removal of BPOs. We are in the process of removing BPOs from the market. We have already removed them from the in game market, and we will eventually be removing them from packs available on the PSN Store. We are not removing any existing BPOs from any player inventories and there are no plans to do so. BPOs are currently not functioning as intended so we are looking at the way they work in game. Again, we would like to reiterate that they will not be removed from any inventories. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts

Marc Rime 238	Posted - 2014.02.11 13:27:00 - [91] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Marc Rime wrote: EDIT (clarification): Where have they said BPOs were removed because they were breaking the economy? Okay, so the specific words used were "not functioning as intended" - classic politician speak for we made something broken but we don't want to admit it outright. Thing about politician speak is it can mean all kinds of things. I've always interpreted that statement more along the lines of: "We've noticed people switch to BPO fits when they are low on ISK. They should buy AUR-gear instead, if we remove BPOs, maybe more people will burn AUR on consumable items."
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3427	Posted - 2014.02.11 16:16:00 - [92] - Quote Marc Rime wrote: Django Quik wrote: Marc Rime wrote: EDIT (clarification): Where have they said BPOs were removed because they were breaking the economy? Okay, so the specific words used were "not functioning as intended" - classic politician speak for we made something broken but we don't want to admit it outright. Thing about politician speak is it can mean all kinds of things. I've always interpreted that statement more along the lines of: "We've noticed people switch to BPO fits when they are low on ISK. They should buy AUR-gear instead, if we remove BPOs, maybe more people will burn AUR on consumable items." Yes. A decision not to sell them anymore (e.g. - we think there's enough in the economy) is different from "we don't think any should be in the game and their very existence is a blight on the economy." To put it more bluntly, I'd imagine at this point, given our lack of "economy", that the removal of BPOs had more to do with cannibalizing part of the expendable Aurum market than any real impact on the ISK market. If they seriously cared about the ISK market, the PC exploit would've been shut down a long time ago, and FAST. That's basically a dam-burst worth of isk. BPOs would've been a problem if they were a limited item in the way that Tier 2 BPOs are in EVE (that is, both rare, secreted, and putting power somewhat permanently in the hands of older players). The BPOs in Dust are mostly vanity items in standard quality. They conflict with aurum vanity sales to some degree. I think that's all the removal ever was: removing a paid item that kept people from buying other paid items. Note that they they're taking an active role in brokering templar codes now. They don't hate BPOs, but they want people to buy the packs they release. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Infine Sentinel Better Hide R Die 655	Posted - 2014.02.11 16:28:00 - [93] - Quote Django Quik wrote: THIS THREAD IS AN ATTACK ON BPOs - I DO NOT WANT TO CHANGE/TAKE AWAY ANYONE'S CURRENT BPOs Please note that it is CCP's position that BPOs are economy breaking, so it is irrelevant if you disagree - instead of arguing about there not being a problem, let's talk about the idea below and how it could further this game. It's been said by CCP and others many times that BPOs break the game economy because they provide a free unlimited supply of items (albeit low value ones but the value is irrelevant in the big picture anyway). However, BPOs are an intrisic part of the New Eden universe and could continue to be a fantastic way for CCP to bring in revenue. The following idea does not vary hugely from the current/old situation and potentially could be implemented in time for fanfest (depending on what is already lined up for dev sprints over the next few months): 1) Create BPOs for every single item in the game (excluding officer salvage) 2) Make them cost many millions of isk / lots of aurum 3) BPOs no longer provide free unlimited items but players get the BPO'd items for much cheaper than the BPC market value 4) BPCs are still available from the main market at current prices (or increased prices, whatever) The next step would be to provide players with the ability to purchase manufacturing materials from NPC (and later Eve) mining corps, which would be required to create items from BPO plans. This would restore BPOs to useful items both to players and CCP without breaking the economy or future possibilities of the player market; in fact it would provide a starting platform for both manufacturing and the player market as well as fitting in well with the way BPOs and BPCs have worked in Eve for years. Some caveats to control the effect of BPOs on the current game economy could be: - Militia BPOs cost up to 10 million isk each - Standard BPOs cost up to 50 million isk each - Advanced BPOs cost up to 100 million isk each - Proto BPOs are extremely rare salvage only (say 0.01% chance) Up to Advanced BPOs could have a 0.1% salvage chance. A new BPO section could be added to the marketplace with up to Advanced BPOs available for aurum of similar values to what they were before they were removed from the market. The price of items created from BPOs could be 1/2 of the market price making them long term investments, so players buying them would feel like they have to keep playing to get the full value of what they have bought. In the future, when we have a player market, manufacturing time and materials cost could be added, so that players can't just quickly flood the market with cheap gear and undermine the economy. Made me laugh. Free pie for anyone who see's what I did. Pie. Forum warrior level 231423423
Katya Thurn Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 8	Posted - 2014.02.11 17:20:00 - [94] - Quote I don't want to open the 'T2 BPO' can of worms that is frequently opened in the EVE Online and gets boring very fast BUT I do think the BPO's in DUST and the T2 BPO in EVE are very similar. As such I don't think the DUST BPO's will, or for that matter should, be removed from the game as they don't really do that much harm to the game as it stands. Likewise the T2 BPOs in EVE do not really do any damage as they have limited usage and can only produce limited amounts of items. For the record I don't own any EVE T2 BPOs and a relatively small number of DUST BPOs of which most came from the collectors box. I started this merc during the closed beta so she has God knows how many unused SP as I haven't really got around to playing DUST. I know very little of the situation but it sounds like PC resembles FW in EVE with the LP farming debacle. Some things never change do they. CCP should have planned everything out from the start or in development as to how they wanted the gameplay and economy to run in DUST. It is going to be a hell of a job to fix and I'm really glad it's not my job to do it. Issues such as there being very little worth buying with Aurum in DUST now that the BPO's have been removed is just one of the problems. I daresay it will all be fixed in the end I hope.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2176	Posted - 2014.02.11 17:33:00 - [95] - Quote Can we please stop discussing whether or not BPOs are a problem? It's pretty irrelevant. What is relevant is that BPOs aren't available anymore and this idea could bring them back in a useful and meaningful way. Please just discuss the idea, not the background. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
JP Acuna Pendejitos Canis Eliminatus Operatives 63	Posted - 2014.02.11 17:57:00 - [96] - Quote BPOs are just fine as long as they're STD and MLT level. They don't break the economy. Why do i keep on seing these topics of how to ruin them. I think they should be back actually. In fact, why not having limited edition event-based BPOs? I'd spend AUR collecting those. Or leave them as they are now, but with the option of paying certain amount of ISK to manufacture BPCs to sell in the secondary market when it's on. But not altering the way they work now for the owner.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2177	Posted - 2014.02.11 18:07:00 - [97] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: BPOs are just fine as long as they're STD and MLT level. They don't break the economy. Why do i keep on seing these topics of how to ruin them. I think they should be back actually. In fact, why not having limited edition event-based BPOs? I'd spend AUR collecting those. Or leave them as they are now, but with the option of paying certain amount of ISK to manufacture BPCs to sell in the secondary market when it's on. But not altering the way they work now for the owner. Leaving BPOs as they are now means they are not available to anyone unless they bought them before they were removed from the market. The reason you keep seeing people talking about how they can be changed is because people want them brought back. We don't have to change the ones already owned but bring new ones to the game, so people can have their current ones and everyone else can have access to some form of BPO. If you read the full OP, you'd see that your final paragraph there actually is suggesting something like my proposal. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
JP Acuna Pendejitos Canis Eliminatus Operatives 63	Posted - 2014.02.11 18:14:00 - [98] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Ugh... no, just no... You can't have every item a BPO. You would eliminate ALL risk vs. reward, especially in the PC arena. BPOs were fine the way they were. The REAL reason they removed them was because the new GM of DUST 514 is a known parasite money leaching scrub. Of course his first order of business was to remove the one thing you could buy with AURUM just once and never have to buy more AURUM ever again with... Did you actually read the entire OP? It's not that long. These BPOs would not be the same as the old BPOs - you'd have to pay isk and maybe even spend time to refill the gear they provide; they would not be an unlimited supply of free gear from point of sale onwards. These new BPOs would give people something to spend aurum on again. Hell, maybe there could even be new aurum boosters to reduce the time it takes to "manufacture" from these BPOs. If you mean that the old and new BPOs will work differently at the same time, then ok. But i don't want to spend ISK to use the BPOs i have now.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2177	Posted - 2014.02.11 18:28:00 - [99] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: Django Quik wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Ugh... no, just no... You can't have every item a BPO. You would eliminate ALL risk vs. reward, especially in the PC arena. BPOs were fine the way they were. The REAL reason they removed them was because the new GM of DUST 514 is a known parasite money leaching scrub. Of course his first order of business was to remove the one thing you could buy with AURUM just once and never have to buy more AURUM ever again with... Did you actually read the entire OP? It's not that long. These BPOs would not be the same as the old BPOs - you'd have to pay isk and maybe even spend time to refill the gear they provide; they would not be an unlimited supply of free gear from point of sale onwards. These new BPOs would give people something to spend aurum on again. Hell, maybe there could even be new aurum boosters to reduce the time it takes to "manufacture" from these BPOs. If you mean that the old and new BPOs will work differently at the same time, then ok. But i don't want to spend ISK to use the BPOs i have now. That is what I mean - hence the caveat in the OP about not wanting to change/take away people's current BPOs. I think there'd have to be a name change though, otherwise it would become too confusing. The old BPOs were never really BPOs in the New Eden sense anyway. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts


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