How is unlimited free anything not economy breaking?

They are not unlimited. That is why CCP stopped selling them. Only a certain % of players have them. And no more are being distributed = finite amount. When the player market hits, they should be able to be sold. Thus defining an 'unlimited' amount of resources (the bpo itself) with a value in ISK. They are limited in the sense that either you own one or your don't.

If a MLT basic plate bpo sells at 15mil ISK (a reasonable price), how many suits must be lost before said user actually turns a profit? 1500 isk or so for basic plate (estimate, I'm at work...they're prolly more like 800). So 15,000,000/1500 = 10,000 deaths before owner sees profit. That's got to be close to 6-8 months of straight gameplay.

Risk V Reward you ask? How about you're running a BPO, literally the squishiest stuff on the battlefield. You run that for 6-8 months and watch your KD/R eat ****, your equipment is sub par and you will lose more matches because of it.

Yes, I have 3 suits that I literally have an infinite amount of, an assault, a logi, and a scout. I run them maybe a grand total of 1hr/week.

The vast majority of BPO holders are not running BPO's 24/7. There is nothing game breaking about them.

The problem is not the BPOs not adding to payout; the problem is people getting free unlimited items.

Free stuff = no risk = broken risk <> reward mechanics

if BPOs are bad so are starter fits

Players with a bpo are veterens => they can play with proto-gear (most of them have large amounts of ISK as well) and only use BPO to farm ISK so they can use more proto or vehicules.
So in the end, even the "endless dropsuit" become or out of age, or we use them so we can repay very costly stuff such as ADS because a little Sica which worth less than any of my BPO destroy it from his redline.

How is unlimited free anything not economy breaking?

Agreed but starter fits serve a purpose - they are there for when you have no isk/are new.

A way to negate this small bump in the problem is to only allow the use of starter fits below a certain isk and/or SP threshold.

That way new and poor players would still have a fall back without free unlimited gear impacting on the economy in any way.

You can do whatever you want with BPO's or BPC's or BP-whatevers released from today (Febuary 10th - some date in the future) but don't limit the original BPO's that were marketed as "unlimited."
CCP wanted money, so they sold us a product. They realized a mistake and changed their policies on BPO's, but that doesn't excuse them from the BPO's already sold.

I have BPO's and I love them ( run them 80% for the color schemes, 20% for the unlimited aspect). I'll continue using them, and if they come out again I'll continue buying them. But as soon as the product I purchase changes into something completely different, well, then I'm out of here.

Just on a side note, if new BPO's are brought in but are limited, depending on how they are implemented, I will buy those too. I have no problem with limited BPO's, but I do have a problem in being lied to when I buy something.

The real problem is not BPO's, it is what you are choosing to focus on.

There is no economy, no marketplace, no industry, hardly even a link to EVE side.

Your point about starter fits is the same point I'm making about BPO's. When I need to be ISK efficient I have them, but I don't need to be at this point. And neither do the other 90% of the players who have been around since they were available.

The bigger issues and the ones you are overlooking IMO, are the lack of an economy. No player market/trading. ISK payouts from PC to pubs need to be overhauled(Including district locking). Lack of playerbase. No ISK generation outside of pubs/PC.

I would like to see the actual statistics from CCP's 'economist' showing the number of BPO's used and just how gamebreaking we were lead to believe this is. Count the number of BPO's that kill you, vs number of starter fits I guarantee that BPO's are significantly less.

BPO's are the easiest target because 1. CCP removed them and said they were 'gamebreaking' 2. In a game where ISK generation comes one of two ways and one way is 'locked' then you will look for the next easiest target. 3. Not everyone has them, creating the "but I am entitled to one too" concept.

I respect you think BPO's are gamebreaking, I just happen to whole-heartedly disagree with you. CCP cannot convince me otherwise until they release some form of actual statistics stating "Players are saving X amount of isk by running BPO's and hoarding Billions of ISK a week"....Because a much, much more game breaking feature currently is the PC district locking which is generation around to 2 billion a week (before your extortion payme...I mean tax) and that money resides in the corp wallets of maybe 8% of this game.

EDIT: Almost forgot about Scotty. Most if not all problems in Dust can be traced back to Scotty in some form. Until CCP manages to not put academy grads up against 2 full squads of 30+mil vets, we will always have QQ about imbalance. There are some matches where I feel like based on the team I'm on, we should be forced to melee kill with active scanners just to make it fair. But I digress....

No worries - as with anything, you'll get your aurum back if anything like that happens and I'm sure you'll agree that you got your money's worth with all that gear you've used since you bought those BPOs if/when that happens.

What you naysayers are missing is that regardless of whether BPOs are economy breaking or not, CCP thinks they are and that's why they were removed. Devs publicly stated this when they were removed from the market. It is not just my opinion. My opinion and your opinion on their economy breakingness is irrelevant.

My main point with this thread is to bring BPOs back in a useful and meaningful context, so that they can be used by all players if they wish and not just for you selfish people who seem to want to hold onto them as they are currently and be the only ones to benefit from them.

My suggestion will further this game and help build the economy that so many of you rightly point out is currently non-existent. In the same breath that CCP announced the removal of BPOs from the marketplace, they stated that they hope to one day bring them back, only not in the same form; well, this is a way they could be brought back and soon.

How about instead of naysaying and arguing about whether there's a problem or not, you all acknowledge CCP's position and do something to work towards a solution instead of burying your heads in the sand and saying everything is fine as is. Because I sure as hell would like to see BPOs return and I know a lot of players are looking forward to the player market and (sigh carebear) industrialism/manufacturing and this would be a significant step towards all of that.

You are aware that CCP has a "no manufacturing in DUST" stance right? At the absolute most a PC district would passively collect a new EVE material we d hand over to them.

What you naysayers are missing is that regardless of whether BPOs are economy breaking or not, CCP thinks they are and that's why they were removed. Devs publicly stated this when they were removed from the market. It is not just my opinion. My opinion and your opinion on their economy breakingness is irrelevant.

My main point with this thread is to bring BPOs back in a useful and meaningful context, so that they can be used by all players if they wish and not just for you selfish people who seem to want to hold onto them as they are currently and be the only ones to benefit from them.

My suggestion will further this game and help build the economy that so many of you rightly point out is currently non-existent. In the same breath that CCP announced the removal of BPOs from the marketplace, they stated that they hope to one day bring them back, only not in the same form; well, this is a way they could be brought back and soon.

How about instead of naysaying and arguing about whether there's a problem or not, you all acknowledge CCP's position and do something to work towards a solution instead of burying your heads in the sand and saying everything is fine as is. Because I sure as hell would like to see BPOs return and I know a lot of players are looking forward to the player market and (sigh carebear) industrialism/manufacturing and this would be a significant step towards all of that.

CCP never said they were "game breaking" that was the term you used. I'm pretty sure they used the phrase "they are not good for the economy." There is a huge difference. They stopped selling them as a result, and the current solution will see BPOs naturally decline as a percentage of ISK in battle over time as vets quit, new players come in and dilute the existing BPOs.

A tiny semantic difference actually (CCP would not use the term 'game breaking') but the result is the same - no more BPOs. However, you can not ignore the fact that they said they wanted to bring them back in some other form. The 'current solution' is not a solution; it is nothing and it doesn't further this game in any way. My suggestion brings BPOs back in a useful and meaningful way and will provide a platform for other even bigger aspects of this game to develop.

All I've seen from the negative people so far is reasons why there's nothing wrong with BPOs and no reasons why there's anything wrong with my proposal. How about you analyse the idea instead of arguing about the background?

BPO's were fixed when they removed them from the market.

The problem is not the BPOs not adding to payout; the problem is people getting free unlimited items.

Free stuff = no risk = broken risk <> reward mechanics

Please note that it is CCP's position that BPOs are economy breaking, so it is irrelevant if you disagree - instead of arguing about there not being a problem, let's talk about the idea below and how it could further this game.

It's been said by CCP and others many times that BPOs break the game economy because they provide a free unlimited supply of items (albeit low value ones but the value is irrelevant in the big picture anyway). However, BPOs are an intrisic part of the New Eden universe and could continue to be a fantastic way for CCP to bring in revenue.

The following idea does not vary hugely from the current/old situation and potentially could be implemented in time for fanfest (depending on what is already lined up for dev sprints over the next few months):

1) Create BPOs for every single item in the game (excluding officer salvage)
2) Make them cost many millions of isk / lots of aurum
3) BPOs no longer provide free unlimited items but players get the BPO'd items for much cheaper than the BPC market value
4) BPCs are still available from the main market at current prices (or increased prices, whatever)

The next step would be to provide players with the ability to purchase manufacturing materials from NPC (and later Eve) mining corps, which would be required to create items from BPO plans.

This would restore BPOs to useful items both to players and CCP without breaking the economy or future possibilities of the player market; in fact it would provide a starting platform for both manufacturing and the player market as well as fitting in well with the way BPOs and BPCs have worked in Eve for years.

Some caveats to control the effect of BPOs on the current game economy could be:
- Militia BPOs cost up to 10 million isk each
- Standard BPOs cost up to 50 million isk each
- Advanced BPOs cost up to 100 million isk each
- Proto BPOs are extremely rare salvage only (say 0.01% chance)

Up to Advanced BPOs could have a 0.1% salvage chance.

A new BPO section could be added to the marketplace with up to Advanced BPOs available for aurum of similar values to what they were before they were removed from the market.

The price of items created from BPOs could be 1/2 of the market price making them long term investments, so players buying them would feel like they have to keep playing to get the full value of what they have bought.

In the future, when we have a player market, manufacturing time and materials cost could be added, so that players can't just quickly flood the market with cheap gear and undermine the economy.

So a blueprint that saves at most a couple of thousand isk is a problem to the economy? Yet PC corps with god knows how many locked districts that still create millions of isk a day in passive form is ok? LOL

Before we start fixing the drastical influence of BPO's that save a few thousend ISk per battle, CCP should fix PCQ farming where everyday MILLIONS of ISK is thrown in economy for free day by day (BTW what economy???)

People who complain about BPOs but ignore multi million ISK generating districts which are constantly locked down by huge mega corps are a cancer on this game. In fact, I hope they get cancer.

I still have all of my Dren bpos and while I use the hell out of the assault, scout, heavy, ar, and sometimes my dren shotty bpo, I feel like if their are bpos for basic ar and scrambler rifle not to mention scr pistol and subs then we should have them for the other wespons as well, I want a blue printed original rail rifle to make a complete Caldari fit. I think the bpo system we had was great the problem is and was that we didnt have every racial weapon and suit of which basic level bpos could be created. I want more bpos not less so that the day doesnt come when ccp comes after my Dren gear, which im afraid is inevitable if they dont go the other way and make bpos for everything else. But even though they removed some bpos and took them off the market their are lots out there.

Agreed but starter fits serve a purpose - they are there for when you have no isk/are new.

A way to negate this small bump in the problem is to only allow the use of starter fits below a certain isk and/or SP threshold.

That way new and poor players would still have a fall back without free unlimited gear impacting on the economy in any way.

They are debating an aurum purchase that will allow you switch races with BPO suits, turning your dren scout into caldari for example. No dice on the RR BPO tho

The problem is you are just jealous, and it's pretty pathetic. BPOs were a commodity, a commodity which people had to pay for, and like all commodities, there are those who have and those who don't. Don't like it, tough ****, that's capitalism B-I-T-C-H!