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Marc Rime
238
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Posted - 2014.02.11 13:27:00 -
[91] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Marc Rime wrote:
EDIT (clarification): Where have they said BPOs were removed because they were breaking the economy?
Okay, so the specific words used were "not functioning as intended" - classic politician speak for we made something broken but we don't want to admit it outright.
Thing about politician speak is it can mean all kinds of things.
I've always interpreted that statement more along the lines of: "We've noticed people switch to BPO fits when they are low on ISK. They should buy AUR-gear instead, if we remove BPOs, maybe more people will burn AUR on consumable items." |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
3427
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Posted - 2014.02.11 16:16:00 -
[92] - Quote
Marc Rime wrote:Django Quik wrote:Marc Rime wrote:
EDIT (clarification): Where have they said BPOs were removed because they were breaking the economy?
Okay, so the specific words used were "not functioning as intended" - classic politician speak for we made something broken but we don't want to admit it outright. Thing about politician speak is it can mean all kinds of things. I've always interpreted that statement more along the lines of: "We've noticed people switch to BPO fits when they are low on ISK. They should buy AUR-gear instead, if we remove BPOs, maybe more people will burn AUR on consumable items."
Yes. A decision not to sell them anymore (e.g. - we think there's enough in the economy) is different from "we don't think any should be in the game and their very existence is a blight on the economy."
To put it more bluntly, I'd imagine at this point, given our lack of "economy", that the removal of BPOs had more to do with cannibalizing part of the expendable Aurum market than any real impact on the ISK market. If they seriously cared about the ISK market, the PC exploit would've been shut down a long time ago, and FAST. That's basically a dam-burst worth of isk.
BPOs would've been a problem if they were a limited item in the way that Tier 2 BPOs are in EVE (that is, both rare, secreted, and putting power somewhat permanently in the hands of older players). The BPOs in Dust are mostly vanity items in standard quality. They conflict with aurum vanity sales to some degree. I think that's all the removal ever was: removing a paid item that kept people from buying other paid items. Note that they they're taking an active role in brokering templar codes now. They don't hate BPOs, but they want people to buy the packs they release.
Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
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Infine Sentinel
Better Hide R Die
655
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Posted - 2014.02.11 16:28:00 -
[93] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:THIS THREAD IS AN ATTACK ON BPOs - I DO NOT WANT TO CHANGE/TAKE AWAY ANYONE'S CURRENT BPOs
Please note that it is CCP's position that BPOs are economy breaking, so it is irrelevant if you disagree - instead of arguing about there not being a problem, let's talk about the idea below and how it could further this game.
It's been said by CCP and others many times that BPOs break the game economy because they provide a free unlimited supply of items (albeit low value ones but the value is irrelevant in the big picture anyway). However, BPOs are an intrisic part of the New Eden universe and could continue to be a fantastic way for CCP to bring in revenue.
The following idea does not vary hugely from the current/old situation and potentially could be implemented in time for fanfest (depending on what is already lined up for dev sprints over the next few months):
1) Create BPOs for every single item in the game (excluding officer salvage)
2) Make them cost many millions of isk / lots of aurum
3) BPOs no longer provide free unlimited items but players get the BPO'd items for much cheaper than the BPC market value
4) BPCs are still available from the main market at current prices (or increased prices, whatever)
The next step would be to provide players with the ability to purchase manufacturing materials from NPC (and later Eve) mining corps, which would be required to create items from BPO plans.
This would restore BPOs to useful items both to players and CCP without breaking the economy or future possibilities of the player market; in fact it would provide a starting platform for both manufacturing and the player market as well as fitting in well with the way BPOs and BPCs have worked in Eve for years.
Some caveats to control the effect of BPOs on the current game economy could be:
- Militia BPOs cost up to 10 million isk each
- Standard BPOs cost up to 50 million isk each
- Advanced BPOs cost up to 100 million isk each
- Proto BPOs are extremely rare salvage only (say 0.01% chance)
Up to Advanced BPOs could have a 0.1% salvage chance.
A new BPO section could be added to the marketplace with up to Advanced BPOs available for aurum of similar values to what they were before they were removed from the market.
The price of items created from BPOs could be 1/2 of the market price making them long term investments, so players buying them would feel like they have to keep playing to get the full value of what they have bought.
In the future, when we have a player market, manufacturing time and materials cost could be added, so that players can't just quickly flood the market with cheap gear and undermine the economy.
Made me laugh.
Free pie for anyone who see's what I did.
Pie.
Forum warrior level 231423423
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Katya Thurn
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2014.02.11 17:20:00 -
[94] - Quote
I don't want to open the 'T2 BPO' can of worms that is frequently opened in the EVE Online and gets boring very fast BUT I do think the BPO's in DUST and the T2 BPO in EVE are very similar. As such I don't think the DUST BPO's will, or for that matter should, be removed from the game as they don't really do that much harm to the game as it stands. Likewise the T2 BPOs in EVE do not really do any damage as they have limited usage and can only produce limited amounts of items. For the record I don't own any EVE T2 BPOs and a relatively small number of DUST BPOs of which most came from the collectors box.
I started this merc during the closed beta so she has God knows how many unused SP as I haven't really got around to playing DUST. I know very little of the situation but it sounds like PC resembles FW in EVE with the LP farming debacle. Some things never change do they. 
CCP should have planned everything out from the start or in development as to how they wanted the gameplay and economy to run in DUST. It is going to be a hell of a job to fix and I'm really glad it's not my job to do it. Issues such as there being very little worth buying with Aurum in DUST now that the BPO's have been removed is just one of the problems. I daresay it will all be fixed in the end I hope.  |
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2176
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Posted - 2014.02.11 17:33:00 -
[95] - Quote
Can we please stop discussing whether or not BPOs are a problem? It's pretty irrelevant. What is relevant is that BPOs aren't available anymore and this idea could bring them back in a useful and meaningful way.
Please just discuss the idea, not the background.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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JP Acuna
Pendejitos
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
63
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Posted - 2014.02.11 17:57:00 -
[96] - Quote
BPOs are just fine as long as they're STD and MLT level. They don't break the economy. Why do i keep on seing these topics of how to ruin them.
I think they should be back actually.
In fact, why not having limited edition event-based BPOs? I'd spend AUR collecting those.
Or leave them as they are now, but with the option of paying certain amount of ISK to manufacture BPCs to sell in the secondary market when it's on. But not altering the way they work now for the owner. |
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2177
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Posted - 2014.02.11 18:07:00 -
[97] - Quote
JP Acuna wrote:BPOs are just fine as long as they're STD and MLT level. They don't break the economy. Why do i keep on seing these topics of how to ruin them.
I think they should be back actually.
In fact, why not having limited edition event-based BPOs? I'd spend AUR collecting those.
Or leave them as they are now, but with the option of paying certain amount of ISK to manufacture BPCs to sell in the secondary market when it's on. But not altering the way they work now for the owner.
Leaving BPOs as they are now means they are not available to anyone unless they bought them before they were removed from the market.
The reason you keep seeing people talking about how they can be changed is because people want them brought back.
We don't have to change the ones already owned but bring new ones to the game, so people can have their current ones and everyone else can have access to some form of BPO. If you read the full OP, you'd see that your final paragraph there actually is suggesting something like my proposal.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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JP Acuna
Pendejitos
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
63
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Posted - 2014.02.11 18:14:00 -
[98] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Chuckles Brown wrote:Ugh... no, just no...
You can't have every item a BPO. You would eliminate ALL risk vs. reward, especially in the PC arena.
BPOs were fine the way they were.
The REAL reason they removed them was because the new GM of DUST 514 is a known parasite money leaching scrub. Of course his first order of business was to remove the one thing you could buy with AURUM just once and never have to buy more AURUM ever again with...
Did you actually read the entire OP? It's not that long. These BPOs would not be the same as the old BPOs - you'd have to pay isk and maybe even spend time to refill the gear they provide; they would not be an unlimited supply of free gear from point of sale onwards. These new BPOs would give people something to spend aurum on again. Hell, maybe there could even be new aurum boosters to reduce the time it takes to "manufacture" from these BPOs.
If you mean that the old and new BPOs will work differently at the same time, then ok. But i don't want to spend ISK to use the BPOs i have now. |
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2177
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Posted - 2014.02.11 18:28:00 -
[99] - Quote
JP Acuna wrote:Django Quik wrote:Chuckles Brown wrote:Ugh... no, just no...
You can't have every item a BPO. You would eliminate ALL risk vs. reward, especially in the PC arena.
BPOs were fine the way they were.
The REAL reason they removed them was because the new GM of DUST 514 is a known parasite money leaching scrub. Of course his first order of business was to remove the one thing you could buy with AURUM just once and never have to buy more AURUM ever again with...
Did you actually read the entire OP? It's not that long. These BPOs would not be the same as the old BPOs - you'd have to pay isk and maybe even spend time to refill the gear they provide; they would not be an unlimited supply of free gear from point of sale onwards. These new BPOs would give people something to spend aurum on again. Hell, maybe there could even be new aurum boosters to reduce the time it takes to "manufacture" from these BPOs. If you mean that the old and new BPOs will work differently at the same time, then ok. But i don't want to spend ISK to use the BPOs i have now.
That is what I mean - hence the caveat in the OP about not wanting to change/take away people's current BPOs. I think there'd have to be a name change though, otherwise it would become too confusing. The old BPOs were never really BPOs in the New Eden sense anyway.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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