DUST Search - How BPOs could be fixed ASAP and bridging the manufacturing gap

Django Quik wrote:

Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:

Django Quik wrote:

Drapedup Drippedout wrote:

Simple...attach the value of the standard item to the bpo so that when it's lost in battle it doesn't cost the owner, but still ads the isk to the payout pool at the end of the match.

CCP put bpo's in the game to make money, they made A LOT of money off of them. Why should the community have to deal with CCP not having the foresight and fortitude to realize that they made the mistake?

Fix it so suit lost still produces ISK payout, but BPO's should not cost owner anything to use. They should not be consumable in any regard.

The problem is not the BPOs not adding to payout; the problem is people getting free unlimited items.

Free stuff = no risk = broken risk <> reward mechanics

The problem is you are just jealous, and it's pretty pathetic. BPOs were a commodity, a commodity which people had to pay for, and like all commodities, there are those who have and those who don't. Don't like it, tough ****, that's capitalism B-I-T-C-H!

I have BPOs and if you read the thread, you'd know that.

And for the record, I have no said anything about taking away BPOs from anyone. CCP may well choose to leave those as they are, since as some people have rightly already pointed out, they will slowly dwindle in number as the vets who own them disappear under a sea of blueberries.

My proposal, before you tried to insult and offend large numbers of people and derail the thread, could easily be implemented on top of what currently exists within the game, whilst extending and developing it for the future and greater good.

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INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 251	Posted - 2014.02.10 20:07:00 - [61] - Quote Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: So a blueprint that saves at most a couple of thousand isk is a problem to the economy? Yet PC corps with god knows how many locked districts that still create millions of isk a day in passive form is ok? LOL People who complain about BPOs but ignore multi million ISK generating districts which are constantly locked down by huge mega corps are a cancer on this game. In fact, I hope they get cancer. I only play pc when Im asked to play by someone whos willing to pay me, as for locking districts I thought that was how you win pc, the first corp to capture all the districts and lock them shutting down pc wins right?????
Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven 368	Posted - 2014.02.10 20:07:00 - [62] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: BPO's were fixed when they removed them from the market. I still have all of my Dren bpos and while I use the hell out of the assault, scout, heavy, ar, and sometimes my dren shotty bpo, I feel like if their are bpos for basic ar and scrambler rifle not to mention scr pistol and subs then we should have them for the other wespons as well, I want a blue printed original rail rifle to make a complete Caldari fit. I think the bpo system we had was great the problem is and was that we didnt have every racial weapon and suit of which basic level bpos could be created. I want more bpos not less so that the day doesnt come when ccp comes after my Dren gear, which im afraid is inevitable if they dont go the other way and make bpos for everything else. But even though they removed some bpos and took them off the market their are lots out there. They are debating an aurum purchase that will allow you switch races with BPO suits, turning your dren scout into caldari for example. No dice on the RR BPO tho ^ This..... Sweet!!!!! Check the bi weekly updates and discussions section in feedback/requests or whatever it's called now, most recent post. It's stickied at top Neighborhood Bully prof 5 "Gimme yo lunch money"
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2156	Posted - 2014.02.10 20:09:00 - [63] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: Django Quik wrote: plaplapla wrote: if BPOs are bad so are starter fits Agreed but starter fits serve a purpose - they are there for when you have no isk/are new. A way to negate this small bump in the problem is to only allow the use of starter fits below a certain isk and/or SP threshold. That way new and poor players would still have a fall back without free unlimited gear impacting on the economy in any way. And for the record CCPS reference to the economy means THEIR economy not ours. Bpos are not breaking our game, neither are starter fits, whats really got these guys pissed is when my 10,000 isk bpo dren scout with remotes is hiding and uses remotes to blow the **** out of the proto suit your running in pubs, lmao remoted a guy with a krins 2 days ago, so sweet. See the fact is Dren > proto in many ways and all these scrubs dying to vet players with core skills and bpos are mad about, im not saying thats the case with quik, but for some peo9le yes. And some people that couldnt afford bpos are mad, others that started playing after they were gone are mad. I agree with Infinite on this and everyone else who points out what a small proportion of the game's isk is lost to nothingness because people lose BPOs instead of BPCs - it is less affecting our game than it is obviously not working from CCP's point of view and not in line with how they view the future of the Dust economy. And this thread was never meant to be an attack on BPOs in any form - it is simply a solution that would allow them to be brought back in a useful and meaningful manner. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
NomaDz 2K The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 119	Posted - 2014.02.10 20:16:00 - [64] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Lucrezia LeGrand wrote: You can do whatever you want with BPO's or BPC's or BP-whatevers released from today (Febuary 10th - some date in the future) but don't limit the original BPO's that were marketed as "unlimited." CCP wanted money, so they sold us a product. They realized a mistake and changed their policies on BPO's, but that doesn't excuse them from the BPO's already sold. I have BPO's and I love them ( run them 80% for the color schemes, 20% for the unlimited aspect). I'll continue using them, and if they come out again I'll continue buying them. But as soon as the product I purchase changes into something completely different, well, then I'm out of here. Just on a side note, if new BPO's are brought in but are limited, depending on how they are implemented, I will buy those too. I have no problem with limited BPO's, but I do have a problem in being lied to when I buy something. No worries - as with anything, you'll get your aurum back if anything like that happens and I'm sure you'll agree that you got your money's worth with all that gear you've used since you bought those BPOs if/when that happens. Or, U CAN DO BETTER AND GET A FULL CASH REFUND BASED UPON WHAT U FEEL IS RIGHT! PSN REFUND FOR BLUE PRINTS Peac3 DON'T SPEND CA$H ON DUST 514 CCP WILL ONLY GIVE YOU AUR AFTER THEY REMOVE YOUR BPOs WHICH U SPENT REAL MONGé¼Y ON!
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2156	Posted - 2014.02.10 20:19:00 - [65] - Quote @NomaDz 2K and Lucrezia LeGrand - can we not derail this thread any further with talk of BPO refunds or whatever; that is not what this thread is about. It is about how we can get BPOs brought back in a useful and meaningful manner that will further the game and benefit everyone., Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 251	Posted - 2014.02.10 20:21:00 - [66] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote: Django Quik wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Simple...attach the value of the standard item to the bpo so that when it's lost in battle it doesn't cost the owner, but still ads the isk to the payout pool at the end of the match. CCP put bpo's in the game to make money, they made A LOT of money off of them. Why should the community have to deal with CCP not having the foresight and fortitude to realize that they made the mistake? Fix it so suit lost still produces ISK payout, but BPO's should not cost owner anything to use. They should not be consumable in any regard. The problem is not the BPOs not adding to payout; the problem is people getting free unlimited items. Free stuff = no risk = broken risk <> reward mechanics The problem is you are just jealous, and it's pretty pathetic. BPOs were a commodity, a commodity which people had to pay for, and like all commodities, there are those who have and those who don't. Don't like it, tough **, that's capitalism B-I-T-C-H! I have BPOs and if you read the thread, you'd know that. And for the record, I have no said anything about taking away BPOs from anyone. CCP may well choose to leave those as they are, since as some people have rightly already pointed out, they will slowly dwindle in number as the vets who own them disappear under a sea of blueberries. My proposal, before you tried to insult and offend large numbers of people and derail the thread, could easily be implemented on top of what currently exists within the game, whilst extending and developing it for the future and greater good. I get what your saying I even like the idea, I dont want to mine though, Id rather have a chance to earn the materials needed to use the bpo by providing security as part of a group of contracted mercs paid to be garrisoned on a mining ship or our own ships that are part of a mining fleet which provides security against other pirating and marauding mercs which would have incentive to not simply destroy our ships in space but rather use something you brillant nerds will invent to attempt to board and take control of said ships with only an elite squad or 2 of new eden caldaris finest heavys scouts logis and assaults to defend and indeed repel these pirates, of which im sure would be gallente scum as the master race doesnt pirate. I know thats crazy **, just saying im down with the rpg, mmo aspect just not removing bpos.
NomaDz 2K The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 119	Posted - 2014.02.10 20:24:00 - [67] - Quote Django Quik wrote: @NomaDz 2K and Lucrezia LeGrand - can we not derail this thread any further with talk of BPO refunds or whatever; that is not what this thread is about. It is about how we can get BPOs brought back in a useful and meaningful manner that will further the game and benefit everyone., EAT ME This isn't being DERAILED it's about what U stated, MOST of those which purchased BPOs DIDn'T Want a FUKIN AUR REFUND This is why some of us were actually smart enough to PROTECT OUR CONSUMER RIGHTS - Whch means Cash or Exchange. CCP were NOT willing to EXCHANGE so NP Sony were willing to deal with it the way it should be. DON'T SPEND CA$H ON DUST 514 CCP WILL ONLY GIVE YOU AUR AFTER THEY REMOVE YOUR BPOs WHICH U SPENT REAL MONGé¼Y ON!*
Leonid Tybalt Dark Knightz Corp. 239	Posted - 2014.02.10 20:30:00 - [68] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Remove all free suits while you're at it, does nothing but ruin the economy Yes. Can't believe ccp made the same mistake twice. Just look how broken Eve's economy is due to all those free Ibises, equipped with free mining lasers and a weapon that has UNLIMITED AMMO to boot! Why on earth would anyone pay isk for flying other ships or even buy ammo when you can run in free Ibises for ever and ever?
Squagga The State Protectorate 210	Posted - 2014.02.10 20:36:00 - [69] - Quote I don't care if they get rid of all the BPOs. Also I don't think that BPOs are hurting the economy that badly. More Importantly whats hurting the economy is buying NPC BPCs. Should just let the EVE pilots make the BPCs and tehn sell em to us. Wouldn't be implemented today but it wouldn't take that long. Better economy better DUST/EVE integration Reloading, the silent killer.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1229	Posted - 2014.02.10 20:52:00 - [70] - Quote there's no manufacture in your concept here.

INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 251	Posted - 2014.02.10 20:55:00 - [71] - Quote Squagga wrote: I don't care if they get rid of all the BPOs. Also I don't think that BPOs are hurting the economy that badly. More Importantly whats hurting the economy is buying NPC BPCs. Should just let the EVE pilots make the BPCs and tehn sell em to us. Wouldn't be implemented today but it wouldn't take that long. Better economy better DUST/EVE integration Said it for a long time, eve should be making and selling us our gear.
OZAROW 0uter.Heaven 1379	Posted - 2014.02.10 21:01:00 - [72] - Quote Untill you fix the " district bpo" people locking districts an collecting billions of free isk everyday an players doing one sided pc making millions everyday, don't even purpose we fix bpos first SUPER NOVA KNIFE SAIYAN 4
Nirwanda Vaughns 326	Posted - 2014.02.10 21:40:00 - [73] - Quote to initially buy a bpo should require aur, then allow them to be resold for isk as and when needed. CCP have always said aur items can be resold for isk in the same mechanic as in eve. a person with little rl money and lots of time can be just as competitive as a player with little time but more rl money. by disallowing bpo sale for extravagant amounts of isk goes against everything in new Eden. the economy should eventually but fully player run just as in eve but for the time being just allow us to at least sell salvage junk back at an NPC price just so I can clear out all the tat in my hangar lol Proto and proud!!
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3420	Posted - 2014.02.10 22:10:00 - [74] - Quote It seems pointless to "fix" the BPO issue given the fact they're no longer flowing into the economy, they're only STD/MLT items, and Dust has no actual economy to speak of. People can generate millions through PC, and have. People have amassed millions/billions of ISK outside of that, and the BPOs weren't a significant factor (literally fractions of the value). People don't have things to spend ISK on. The fact BPOs exist/don't-exist doesn't really change that. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Squagga The State Protectorate 216	Posted - 2014.02.10 22:50:00 - [75] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: Squagga wrote: I don't care if they get rid of all the BPOs. Also I don't think that BPOs are hurting the economy that badly. More Importantly whats hurting the economy is buying NPC BPCs. Should just let the EVE pilots make the BPCs and tehn sell em to us. Wouldn't be implemented today but it wouldn't take that long. Better economy better DUST/EVE integration Said it for a long time, eve should be making and selling us our gear. +1 to sir! You amazing well armed bastard! Even the pilots I talked to wanna do this. The double hell CCP? Reloading, the silent killer.
Lucrezia LeGrand 310	Posted - 2014.02.10 22:53:00 - [76] - Quote Django Quik wrote: @NomaDz 2K and Lucrezia LeGrand - can we not derail this thread any further with talk of BPO refunds or whatever; that is not what this thread is about. It is about how we can get BPOs brought back in a useful and meaningful manner that will further the game and benefit everyone., I wasn't trying to derail the thread. I was responding to a post you made where you said an Aurum refund was a perfectly acceptable compensation to losing a BPO. I disagree. I also said that I like your idea for "future" BPO's and would be willing to support CCP in that regard. CCP has to find a way to monetize Dust 514, and bringing back BPO's in one way or another would be a great way of doing that (as long as they don't change already existing BPO's). The truth is BPO's sell. Alternative color schemes sell. small unique fittings (even if they are crap fittings) sell. Anything cosmetic sells. Anything that allows player initiative and meta gaming (like manufacturing your own stuff) sells. So I support a new type of BPO. Thale groupie
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 252	Posted - 2014.02.11 00:45:00 - [77] - Quote Lucrezia LeGrand wrote: Django Quik wrote: @NomaDz 2K and Lucrezia LeGrand - can we not derail this thread any further with talk of BPO refunds or whatever; that is not what this thread is about. It is about how we can get BPOs brought back in a useful and meaningful manner that will further the game and benefit everyone., I wasn't trying to derail the thread. I was responding to a post you made where you said an Aurum refund was a perfectly acceptable compensation to losing a BPO. I disagree. I also said that I like your idea for "future" BPO's and would be willing to support CCP in that regard. CCP has to find a way to monetize Dust 514, and bringing back BPO's in one way or another would be a great way of doing that (as long as they don't change already existing BPO's). The truth is BPO's sell. Alternative color schemes sell. small unique fittings (even if they are crap fittings) sell. Anything cosmetic sells. Anything that allows player initiative and meta gaming (like manufacturing your own stuff) sells. So I support a new type of BPO. Totally agree, man if they would just sell bpo skins that we could camo out our suit of choice with id buy all kinds, the problem for them making money isnt bpos, its that they dont make enough new and creative ones to continue selling, if you had a bpo for the basic version of everything in the game that would sell, and not like the old ones, "Miltia shield extender blue print" boooooo, I want the " Kalakiota starburst shield extender" and when im wearing them I should have orange and yellow starburts on my shoulders to properly accentuate the master race.
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 252	Posted - 2014.02.11 00:51:00 - [78] - Quote OZAROW wrote: Untill you fix the " district bpo" people locking districts an collecting billions of free isk everyday an players doing one sided pc making millions everyday, don't even purpose we fix bpos first + 1 cause "district bpo" had me lol. And its true
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 264	Posted - 2014.02.11 00:54:00 - [79] - Quote BPO are not affecting the economy in any way. Sure you can use BPO now and then, and brag about them in the war-barge etc... But they have no real competitive use, and considering our little but Hardcore gaming community... I mean im pretty sure no one goes into a PC with BPO XD MAG [ + ] AIMBOT AceOfJokers666
PLAYSTTION GamersForChrist 28	Posted - 2014.02.11 00:59:00 - [80] - Quote The advanced BPO and officer proto ect. i think are a bad idea. the eve part is good though. Eve players mining for materials to make BPOs. And with all the isk the merc is saving the eve player can get payed. OR just limit BPO's by only giving out in codes acquired from fanfest, E3, or other events, therefore limiting BPOs enough that it doesn't matter. And if the player base grows the could be a badge meaning your a vet 5 years from now. I support everything except removal of our precious BPOs -Open Beta Vet-13.1 mil sp- Dust 514 recruitment link here

Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2163	Posted - 2014.02.11 08:14:00 - [81] - Quote low genius wrote: there's no manufacture in your concept here. The manufacturing is mentioned towards the end of the OP - but it is an afterthought and wouldn't be viable in the short term; however the concept proposed sets up the Dust universe for future manufacturing at some point. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2163	Posted - 2014.02.11 08:20:00 - [82] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: to initially buy a bpo should require aur, then allow them to be resold for isk as and when needed. CCP have always said aur items can be resold for isk in the same mechanic as in eve. a person with little rl money and lots of time can be just as competitive as a player with little time but more rl money. by disallowing bpo sale for extravagant amounts of isk goes against everything in new Eden. the economy should eventually but fully player run just as in eve but for the time being just allow us to at least sell salvage junk back at an NPC price just so I can clear out all the tat in my hangar lol Allowing these new BPOs to be sold for massive amounts of isk would be a stop gap fix until player trading comes in - if P2P market is there when these come in, I'd agree to the aur only thing but until then, they need to be available to all somehow. But in essence I agree with you. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2163	Posted - 2014.02.11 08:21:00 - [83] - Quote OZAROW wrote: Untill you fix the " district bpo" people locking districts an collecting billions of free isk everyday an players doing one sided pc making millions everyday, don't even purpose we fix bpos first Agreed - the PC locking thing is the biggest blight on the Dust economy currently and absolutely needs to be fixed but this proposal could also be implemented at the same time and provide a much wanted return of BPOs and enrich the game further. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2163	Posted - 2014.02.11 08:27:00 - [84] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: It seems pointless to "fix" the BPO issue given the fact they're no longer flowing into the economy, they're only STD/MLT items, and Dust has no actual economy to speak of. People can generate millions through PC, and have. People have amassed millions/billions of ISK outside of that, and the BPOs weren't a significant factor (literally fractions of the value). People don't have things to spend ISK on. The fact BPOs exist/don't-exist doesn't really change that. The fact that they're no longer available gives all the more reason to 'fix' BPOs. Having a small number of players owning something that is absolutely unavailable to others and always will be is locking content and that is something CCP has always said they're against. Agreed - Dust has no economy... yet. PC is the biggest problem in the would be economy and people do have millions of isk. BPOs were seen as a problem by CCP for their future economic plans, so were removed from the market, despite the tiny effect they were likely having overall. That is the background. Now let's look at what this idea I've proposed could do: 1) Give people something to spend their millions of isk on 2) Allow access to BPOs for all (for a very very steep price) 3) Set the scene for future trading and manufacturing These are small but important steps towards us gaining the player driven economy so many want and we all know is currently utterly non-existent. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Chuckles Brown 4	Posted - 2014.02.11 08:39:00 - [85] - Quote Ugh... no, just no... You can't have every item a BPO. You would eliminate ALL risk vs. reward, especially in the PC arena. BPOs were fine the way they were. The REAL reason they removed them was because the new GM of DUST 514 is a known parasite money leaching scrub. Of course his first order of business was to remove the one thing you could buy with AURUM just once and never have to buy more AURUM ever again with... The Official alt of 8213 Do you pub, brah?
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2163	Posted - 2014.02.11 08:47:00 - [86] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: Ugh... no, just no... You can't have every item a BPO. You would eliminate ALL risk vs. reward, especially in the PC arena. BPOs were fine the way they were. The REAL reason they removed them was because the new GM of DUST 514 is a known parasite money leaching scrub. Of course his first order of business was to remove the one thing you could buy with AURUM just once and never have to buy more AURUM ever again with... Did you actually read the entire OP? It's not that long. These BPOs would not be the same as the old BPOs - you'd have to pay isk and maybe even spend time to refill the gear they provide; they would not be an unlimited supply of free gear from point of sale onwards. These new BPOs would give people something to spend aurum on again. Hell, maybe there could even be new aurum boosters to reduce the time it takes to "manufacture" from these BPOs. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Yan Darn DUST University Ivy League 180	Posted - 2014.02.11 09:18:00 - [87] - Quote looks at sig quietly backs away j/k - I agree with general vision laid out here it's just...for all this to come together and mean something (because really, ISK, BPOs, 'the economy' - it's all meaningless with the way the game currently is), it seems that: 1. ~~We need a player market introduced~~ District locking needs fixing. 2. We need a player market introduced. 3. We need to introduce minerals/manufacturing. 4. We need PVE to help keep manufacturing carebears supplied. Then ideally 5: link to EVE market - creating manufacturing/mineral supply/demand system so the two games can actually give a **** about each other. With that - the whole issue of DUST mercs being able to travel to say, Jita and access the market there... I mean I have faith in CCP, but it makes me wonder whether it was ever worth investing any money in this game. I don't mean that in a bitter way, just...it seems quite a task doesn't it? You probably don't know me. But next time you get gunned down or exploded by a Valor scout...check the name.
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game 258	Posted - 2014.02.11 09:20:00 - [88] - Quote nope nope nope. its this simple make the current bpo's vanity items that cant be bought but act as an eve bpo would ie cost materials to make. manufactering should never send isk into some blackhole. that defies the point of a player driven market. market first then sort the bpo's out. and proto bpo's salvage only? sod off thats almost as bad as the t2 bpo's in eve. and cost 50% of the market value to build? erm no more like 95% like eve bpo's you can still make a profit. (huge profits if you're smart about it) also if you dont actully own any bpo's you can also sod off you have no right to comment on them.
Marc Rime 238	Posted - 2014.02.11 10:34:00 - [89] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Please note that it is CCP's position that BPOs are economy breaking (...) It's been said by CCP (...) many times that BPOs break the game economy because they provide a free unlimited supply of items (...) Citation please.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2167	Posted - 2014.02.11 12:46:00 - [90] - Quote Marc Rime wrote: Django Quik wrote: Please note that it is CCP's position that BPOs are economy breaking (...) It's been said by CCP (...) many times that BPOs break the game economy because they provide a free unlimited supply of items (...) Citation please. EDIT (clarification): Where have they said BPOs were removed because they were breaking the economy? Okay, so the specific words used were "not functioning as intended" - classic politician speak for we made something broken but we don't want to admit it outright. CCP Logibro wrote: Hey all, We just wanted to clarify statements made about the removal of BPOs. We are in the process of removing BPOs from the market. We have already removed them from the in game market, and we will eventually be removing them from packs available on the PSN Store. We are not removing any existing BPOs from any player inventories and there are no plans to do so. BPOs are currently not functioning as intended so we are looking at the way they work in game. Again, we would like to reiterate that they will not be removed from any inventories. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts



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