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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
122
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Posted - 2014.02.01 23:56:00 -
[31] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Give MORE TACTICS, not more slight of hand reflex's.
Some tactics must be executed quickly.
An essential element of tactics is timing. Anyone who has studied tactics would have that elementary knowledge.
Grundstein Automation
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
122
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Posted - 2014.02.01 23:58:00 -
[32] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:No in real life they die, they don't get an opportunity to react. Get it?
The constructs of the game include wearing a suit of armor. Duh
Grundstein Automation
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1771
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:03:00 -
[33] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Give MORE TACTICS, not more slight of hand reflex's. Some tactics must be executed quickly. An essential element of tactics is timing. Anyone who has studied tactics would have that elementary knowledge.
Tactical timing is 3 people opening fire at once, not turning round and blasting him using a slight of hand crutch.
Setting up ambushes, killzones, decoys, those are tactics and require timing tto execute, pressing a button twice is not a tactic.
Yes the construct of the game do account for armour, but that doesn't mean you should be able to turn round and blast the guy who got a superior position on you.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1799
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:05:00 -
[34] - Quote
Clone D wrote:
In reality, I could turn much more quickly.
In real life you don't turn around at all. You don't just take a bullet and automatically face the direction of the shooter.
Easy explanation for our low turning speeds:
The servos in our dropsuits can't turn as quickly as our natural joints in that manner. This is because the servos in the joints of the lower body are optimized for vertical movements, as to increase forward and backward movement speed of the suit. Due to this, when the user wants to change direction, it is actually harder in a dropsuit because the dropsuit doesn't move itself with the user, so the the user has to move the dropsuit as well as their own body when they want to turn.
Yours Truly,
Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
MAG ~ Seryi Volk Executive Response
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
122
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:06:00 -
[35] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Give MORE TACTICS, not more slight of hand reflex's.
Getting stuck in a 1-on-1 situation is a highly tactical circumstance.
Some of the elements include remaining HP of both players, dps of both players, and each player's mobility and proximity to cover.
If my merc is taking heat from behind I can:
1. Run for cover.
2. Try to dodge bullets while running for cover.
3. Turn around and return fire.
4. Try to dodge bullets while turning to return fire.
Are there any other options?
My point is that the game configuration does not emphasize mobility and therefore when being shot in the back, none of the 4 available options are viable.
Grundstein Automation
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
122
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:12:00 -
[36] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:... but that doesn't mean you should be able to turn round and blast the guy who got a superior position on you.
Tactics take into account the facets of each individual agent involved in the scenario.
My point is that my agent avatar with level 5 biotics in a scout suit is so slow that I cannot effectively respond to a spontaneous ambush.
Ambushes are part of war. Our mercs should be equipped to deal with them. Agreed?
Grundstein Automation
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
122
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:14:00 -
[37] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:... You don't just take a bullet and automatically face the direction of the shooter.
I didn't say automatically. I said that I must double click L1. That requires human response time, which is much more reasonable than the slow turn rate depicted in the game.
Grundstein Automation
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1772
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:14:00 -
[38] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Give MORE TACTICS, not more slight of hand reflex's. Getting stuck in a 1-on-1 situation is a highly tactical circumstance. Some of the elements include remaining HP of both players, dps of both players, and each player's mobility and proximity to cover. If my merc is taking heat from behind I can: 1. Run for cover. 2. Try to dodge bullets while running for cover. 3. Turn around and return fire. 4. Try to dodge bullets while turning to return fire. Are there any other options? My point is that the game configuration does not emphasize mobility and therefore when being shot in the back, none of the 4 available options are viable.
Or maybe your just not fast enough 1 and 2 work just fine for me.
Instead trying to convince me that's unfair that some guy shot you in the back, adjust you playstyle.
1) If you are in a squad stagger your formation, don't just stand in a line. You should be bunny hoping between cover anyway so as to minimze up time.
2) Get better scanners, either have a logi with an active or trick out a scout with passives.
3) If you are dying to shots in the back learn to check your corners better.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1772
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:15:00 -
[39] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:... but that doesn't mean you should be able to turn round and blast the guy who got a superior position on you. Tactics take into account the facets of each individual agent involved in the scenario. My point is that my agent avatar with level 5 biotics in a scout suit is so slow that I cannot effectively respond to a spontaneous ambush. Ambushes are part of war. Our mercs should be equipped to deal with them. Agreed?
You are its called intelligence.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Michael Arck
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu
2977
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:21:00 -
[40] - Quote
No. I don't think you thought this out. It turns into a twitch double tap L environment where everybody is snapping to face their opponents. Of course you like this idea because it will benefit you...until it starts benefiting other players more experienced and then you will cry nerf and its unfair.
Your best bet is learn how to bake and shake on the field. You gotta have the spirit of Barry Sanders and if you do it right, you will throw their aim off track, allowing you a few seconds to lay some shots on their cranium which will disrupt their focus, causing them to get excited. That's when you maintain your aim and lay them down. Boom, gray clone on the ground. You won't be able to hear him, but he will be cursing you in all types of languages.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
For the State!!
[email protected]
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
122
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:21:00 -
[41] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:
1) If you are in a squad stagger your formation, don't just stand in a line. You should be bunny hoping between cover anyway so as to minimze up time.
2) Get better scanners, either have a logi with an active or trick out a scout with passives.
3) If you are dying to shots in the back learn to check your corners better.
1. Good point. Did that. While I occasionally do bunny hop, I am disinclined to bunny hop as it wastes stamina and generally hopping doesn't do a lot of good due to poor hit detection.
2. Good point. Did that. Although this is not a 100% sure method.
3. Good point. Did that. I am the corner and doorway master.
These are all good points but they don't address the question at hand: turn velocity.
I didn't say that it was unfair that someone shot me in the back. That is totally rad that somebody can sneak up and get the drop on me. But turning velocity is a problem when I can't turn around quickly with lvl 5 biotics in a scout suit.
Grundstein Automation
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Shiyou Hidiyoshi
71
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:22:00 -
[42] - Quote
...
Ha!
This is such a good idea!!!!1!!! zomg!
I can't wait to automatically kill everyone behind me with a heavy!
"O there is a guy coming *turns around*, I hope he shoots me once so I automatically aim right at him!"
Turn around every second to instan kill everyone who hits you.
OR..................
You learn to watch your *** and learn that flanking is a valid tactic in video games.
What's next? Teleportation device for tanks that get stuck in a corner because they can't drive and need to run away from the enemy?
Will awoky woky Rampage in PC for Chucky Cheese tokens. C C P corp is full of scrubs, application to FWA REJECTED! :P
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Denak Kalamari
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
991
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:23:00 -
[43] - Quote
This sums up my reaction quite well.
But seriously, this is the dumbest idea ever suggested on this forum, and I've seen some very bad ideas. This thing has so many flaws, holes in design and ways to exploit even swiss cheese is jealous of you.
Just, no. Go away OP.
Grahisha of ILF // Writer of Thoughts of a Clone Soldier // Latest entry published Jan. 29th
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Mike Ox Bigger
Skill Shots
127
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:23:00 -
[44] - Quote
LoL at OP. You serious? Someone said he was running scout, of course you're gonna die fast. I can usually turn and look at the guy before I die in my logi suit :) |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
890
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:23:00 -
[45] - Quote
turning your head then yes in RL its instant but your body and posture takes time to follow your heads lead. its not a thing i would like implemented even though it would save my logi ass a few times
I will logi the s* out of you
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
122
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:23:00 -
[46] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Clone D wrote:1. Run for cover.
2. Try to dodge bullets while running for cover.
3. Turn around and return fire.
4. Try to dodge bullets while turning to return fire.
Or maybe your just not fast enough 1 and 2 work just fine for me.
Scout suits don't take enough damage to actually make it to cover if you're already taking heat 9 times out of 10, regardless of how much wiggling and jumping you do.
Grundstein Automation
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
122
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:26:00 -
[47] - Quote
Shiyou Hidiyoshi wrote:I can't wait to automatically kill everyone behind me with a heavy!
Not hard to imagine a coefficient of lag for turning medium and heavy suits.
Grundstein Automation
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Michael Arck
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu
2977
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:26:00 -
[48] - Quote
You're in a scout suit first of all. You should be in the background as much as possible. And if not, you're in a scout suit. You chose the profession. Understand that death comes quicker for a scout than any other class. Try more preventative methods or if it isn't working, switch to another fit until the rush blows over and you can return to scouting.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
For the State!!
[email protected]
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Shiyou Hidiyoshi
71
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:26:00 -
[49] - Quote
Denak Kalamari wrote:This sums up my reaction quite well.But seriously, this is the dumbest idea ever suggested on this forum, and I've seen some very bad ideas. This thing has so many flaws, holes in design and ways to exploit even swiss cheese is jealous of you. Just, no. Go away OP.
The OP needs a medal lol, i'm going to post in in the War Room lol
Will awoky woky Rampage in PC for Chucky Cheese tokens. C C P corp is full of scrubs, application to FWA REJECTED! :P
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1772
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:26:00 -
[50] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
1) If you are in a squad stagger your formation, don't just stand in a line. You should be bunny hoping between cover anyway so as to minimze up time.
2) Get better scanners, either have a logi with an active or trick out a scout with passives.
3) If you are dying to shots in the back learn to check your corners better.
1. Good point. Did that. While I occasionally do bunny hop, I am disinclined to bunny hop as it wastes stamina and generally hopping doesn't do a lot of good due to poor hit detection. 2. Good point. Did that. Although this is not a 100% sure method. 3. Good point. Did that. I am the corner and doorway master. These are all good points but they don't address the question at hand: turn velocity. I didn't say that it was unfair that someone shot me in the back. That is totally rad that somebody can sneak up and get the drop on me. But turning velocity is a problem when I can't turn around quickly with lvl 5 biotics in a scout suit.
Then truth be told if you are in a Scout suit you shouldn't really be getting shot at all. Your suit is fragile, not designed for 1v1, giving you a L1 double tap, won't improve your chances.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
122
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:27:00 -
[51] - Quote
Mike Ox Bigger wrote:LoL at OP. You serious? Someone said he was running scout, of course you're gonna die fast. I can usually turn and look at the guy before I die in my logi suit :)
Yes, if scouts are supposed to be highly mobile, then why can't they turn around to respond to a threat in time?
Grundstein Automation
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
122
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:28:00 -
[52] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Then truth be told if you are in a Scout suit you shouldn't really be getting shot at all. Your suit is fragile, not designed for 1v1, giving you a L1 double tap, won't improve your chances.
Did you know that scouts hunt other scouts?
"you shouldn't really be getting shot at all." ... It's inevitable in this game. Nice absolute outlook.
Grundstein Automation
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
122
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:31:00 -
[53] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:You're in a scout suit first of all. You should be in the background as much as possible. And if not, you're in a scout suit. You chose the profession. Understand that death comes quicker for a scout than any other class. Try more preventative methods or if it isn't working, switch to another fit until the rush blows over and you can return to scouting.
Thank you for the utterly common knowledge you bestowed. This thread is about improving turning velocity which is currently completely ridiculous. Apparently, though, the slow players love it.
Grundstein Automation
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1772
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:31:00 -
[54] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
1) If you are in a squad stagger your formation, don't just stand in a line. You should be bunny hoping between cover anyway so as to minimze up time.
2) Get better scanners, either have a logi with an active or trick out a scout with passives.
3) If you are dying to shots in the back learn to check your corners better.
1. Good point. Did that. While I occasionally do bunny hop, I am disinclined to bunny hop as it wastes stamina and generally hopping doesn't do a lot of good due to poor hit detection. 2. Good point. Did that. Although this is not a 100% sure method. 3. Good point. Did that. I am the corner and doorway master. These are all good points but they don't address the question at hand: turn velocity. I didn't say that it was unfair that someone shot me in the back. That is totally rad that somebody can sneak up and get the drop on me. But turning velocity is a problem when I can't turn around quickly with lvl 5 biotics in a scout suit.
I meant bunnyhop in the military sense not jump around like a frog on springs, all that doe work too and add a bit of random movement in too.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Michael Arck
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu
2977
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:32:00 -
[55] - Quote
So you want to double click to turn to face your enemy
But you're in a scout suit so if you face your enemy, you give him a good hit box to drop you from since you are in a scout suit that is weak in HP.
You're in a scout suit, you shouldn't be enticing any ideas that give you full on frontal confrontation. That is your kryptonite. Your suit is not made for the ground and pound assault.
Again, no offense but you didn't think this one out. It will work against you more than you think it will help you. Think about the other side of the coin.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
For the State!!
[email protected]
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
122
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:33:00 -
[56] - Quote
Shiyou Hidiyoshi wrote:Denak Kalamari wrote:This sums up my reaction quite well.But seriously, this is the dumbest idea ever suggested on this forum, and I've seen some very bad ideas. This thing has so many flaws, holes in design and ways to exploit even swiss cheese is jealous of you. Just, no. Go away OP. The OP needs a medal lol, i'm going to post in in the War Room lol
I can't wait to tell my friends how such a complete group of unitard-wearing retards dwells on the dust forums.
Grundstein Automation
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1772
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:34:00 -
[57] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Then truth be told if you are in a Scout suit you shouldn't really be getting shot at all. Your suit is fragile, not designed for 1v1, giving you a L1 double tap, won't improve your chances. Did you know that scouts hunt other scouts? "you shouldn't really be getting shot at all." ... It's inevitable in this game. Nice absolute outlook.
Yes Im aware but that's a problem with active scanners, if they were more like sonar pins, scout fights would be epic battles of hide and seek, not pop goes the weasel.
Ill admit scouts are underpowered but giving you more tank or the option to majic spin is not the way to do it.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
122
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:35:00 -
[58] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:You're in a scout suit, you shouldn't be enticing any ideas that give you full on frontal confrontation. That is your kryptonite. Your suit is not made for the ground and pound assault.
I am not asking for assault. I am asking for response. The inherent nature of my request is swollen with the idea of responding. Get a clue.
Grundstein Automation
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Denak Kalamari
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
991
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:43:00 -
[59] - Quote
Alright, let's tackle your suggestion seriously, since you seem to be a little stubborn.
First of all, yes, it is auto-aim, stop saying it isn't. The fact that you can instantly turn around and point your crosshairs at an enemy, who used valid tactics to get behind you and start shooting you in the back, completely negates the usefulness of flanking when anyone can just doubletap L1 to counter anyone trying to shoot them in the back.
Don't forget the fact that even in real combat, when you get shot, you don't turn around and try to outgun someone who already got the drop on you, no matter how good your reflexes are. You find cover, assess the situation and then try to engage the enemy when you are prepared. You should do the same.
Then there's the issue of balance. How good would this auto-aim be? Where would it be pointing in the enemy's body? Is there a damage threshold? With weapons like the rail rifle or HMG, this feature would be exploited all day long and make their users nigh-impossible to flank.
I get it, you're turning too slow even if you have your sensitivity maxed, but it's been like this with console shooters ever since the days of the first Halo. If you don't like it, get a mouse and keyboard or switch to PC, don't post dumb ideas like these that ruin the game for everyone.
Grahisha of ILF // Writer of Thoughts of a Clone Soldier // Latest entry published Jan. 29th
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
122
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:46:00 -
[60] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Again, no offense but you didn't think this one out. ...
Actually, I did think it out.
I thought of every soldier on the field using this ability in battle.
I thought of the various scenarios where it could be employed.
I thought it would enrich gameplay and reduce helplessness.
Grundstein Automation
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