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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1768
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Posted - 2014.02.01 23:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hold on, so double tapping L1 automatically turns you to face the last person to shoot you?
Let's run a scenario
Scout Shotgun, Heavy HMG, you are gonna end up with scout all over the walls.
No offence, but for someone who's name isn't Spkr, Worst Idea Ever . . . . . . . . So Far
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1770
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Posted - 2014.02.01 23:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
Clone D wrote:N1ck Comeau wrote:Unlike all the trolls. I want to actually state why i think this is bad.
Flanking, it's a great tactic. This outways that, if you can instantly turn around, flanking is insanely harder. That makes sense, but just as in real life, you have a choice to keep attacking forward or turn to the side. Either way, someone will be shooting you from the side, so in my opinion, this argument is moot.
Not if you are flanked, because you can't shoot if you are dead, especially with this TTK.
There is no need for a function that disadvantages the guy who took the ti e and effort to shoot you from a position of where he wouldn't getmshot.
Basically it eliminates the point for any for of tactical movement and reduces even further into the bull rush mentality of most shooters.
Instead we want to be rewarding the guy who flanked, with bonus damage against a person's back while using a shotgun.
Or increasing thedamage indicator spread if you can't see the user.
Give MORE TACTICS, not more slight of hand reflex's.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1770
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Posted - 2014.02.01 23:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Hold on, so double tapping L1 automatically turns you to face the last person to shoot you?
Let's run a scenario
Scout Shotgun, Heavy HMG, you are gonna end up with scout all over the walls.
No offence, but for someone who's name isn't Spkr, Worst Idea Ever . . . . . . . . So Far You could add a coefficient of turn lag for medium and heavy suits. The point is, nobody turns that slowly IRL. Get it?
No in real life they die, they don't get an opportunity to react. Get it?
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1771
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Give MORE TACTICS, not more slight of hand reflex's. Some tactics must be executed quickly. An essential element of tactics is timing. Anyone who has studied tactics would have that elementary knowledge.
Tactical timing is 3 people opening fire at once, not turning round and blasting him using a slight of hand crutch.
Setting up ambushes, killzones, decoys, those are tactics and require timing tto execute, pressing a button twice is not a tactic.
Yes the construct of the game do account for armour, but that doesn't mean you should be able to turn round and blast the guy who got a superior position on you.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1772
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Give MORE TACTICS, not more slight of hand reflex's. Getting stuck in a 1-on-1 situation is a highly tactical circumstance. Some of the elements include remaining HP of both players, dps of both players, and each player's mobility and proximity to cover. If my merc is taking heat from behind I can: 1. Run for cover. 2. Try to dodge bullets while running for cover. 3. Turn around and return fire. 4. Try to dodge bullets while turning to return fire. Are there any other options? My point is that the game configuration does not emphasize mobility and therefore when being shot in the back, none of the 4 available options are viable.
Or maybe your just not fast enough 1 and 2 work just fine for me.
Instead trying to convince me that's unfair that some guy shot you in the back, adjust you playstyle.
1) If you are in a squad stagger your formation, don't just stand in a line. You should be bunny hoping between cover anyway so as to minimze up time.
2) Get better scanners, either have a logi with an active or trick out a scout with passives.
3) If you are dying to shots in the back learn to check your corners better.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1772
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:... but that doesn't mean you should be able to turn round and blast the guy who got a superior position on you. Tactics take into account the facets of each individual agent involved in the scenario. My point is that my agent avatar with level 5 biotics in a scout suit is so slow that I cannot effectively respond to a spontaneous ambush. Ambushes are part of war. Our mercs should be equipped to deal with them. Agreed?
You are its called intelligence.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1772
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
1) If you are in a squad stagger your formation, don't just stand in a line. You should be bunny hoping between cover anyway so as to minimze up time.
2) Get better scanners, either have a logi with an active or trick out a scout with passives.
3) If you are dying to shots in the back learn to check your corners better.
1. Good point. Did that. While I occasionally do bunny hop, I am disinclined to bunny hop as it wastes stamina and generally hopping doesn't do a lot of good due to poor hit detection. 2. Good point. Did that. Although this is not a 100% sure method. 3. Good point. Did that. I am the corner and doorway master. These are all good points but they don't address the question at hand: turn velocity. I didn't say that it was unfair that someone shot me in the back. That is totally rad that somebody can sneak up and get the drop on me. But turning velocity is a problem when I can't turn around quickly with lvl 5 biotics in a scout suit.
Then truth be told if you are in a Scout suit you shouldn't really be getting shot at all. Your suit is fragile, not designed for 1v1, giving you a L1 double tap, won't improve your chances.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1772
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 00:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
1) If you are in a squad stagger your formation, don't just stand in a line. You should be bunny hoping between cover anyway so as to minimze up time.
2) Get better scanners, either have a logi with an active or trick out a scout with passives.
3) If you are dying to shots in the back learn to check your corners better.
1. Good point. Did that. While I occasionally do bunny hop, I am disinclined to bunny hop as it wastes stamina and generally hopping doesn't do a lot of good due to poor hit detection. 2. Good point. Did that. Although this is not a 100% sure method. 3. Good point. Did that. I am the corner and doorway master. These are all good points but they don't address the question at hand: turn velocity. I didn't say that it was unfair that someone shot me in the back. That is totally rad that somebody can sneak up and get the drop on me. But turning velocity is a problem when I can't turn around quickly with lvl 5 biotics in a scout suit.
I meant bunnyhop in the military sense not jump around like a frog on springs, all that doe work too and add a bit of random movement in too.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1772
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 00:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Then truth be told if you are in a Scout suit you shouldn't really be getting shot at all. Your suit is fragile, not designed for 1v1, giving you a L1 double tap, won't improve your chances. Did you know that scouts hunt other scouts? "you shouldn't really be getting shot at all." ... It's inevitable in this game. Nice absolute outlook.
Yes Im aware but that's a problem with active scanners, if they were more like sonar pins, scout fights would be epic battles of hide and seek, not pop goes the weasel.
Ill admit scouts are underpowered but giving you more tank or the option to majic spin is not the way to do it.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1774
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Posted - 2014.02.02 02:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
Dominus Fatali wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Clone D wrote:N1ck Comeau wrote:Unlike all the trolls. I want to actually state why i think this is bad.
Flanking, it's a great tactic. This outways that, if you can instantly turn around, flanking is insanely harder. That makes sense, but just as in real life, you have a choice to keep attacking forward or turn to the side. Either way, someone will be shooting you from the side, so in my opinion, this argument is moot. Not if you are flanked, because you can't shoot if you are dead, especially with this TTK. There is no need for a function that disadvantages the guy who took the ti e and effort to shoot you from a position of where he wouldn't get mshot. Basically it eliminates the point for any for of tactical movement and reduces even further into the bull rush mentality of most shooters. Instead we want to be rewarding the guy who flanked, with bonus damage against a person's back while using a shotgun. Or increasing thedamage indicator spread if you can't see the user. Give MORE TACTICS, not more slight of hand reflex's. The m from time decided to move away I guess.
Went to london for the day.
Im on a tablet though so spelling mistakes will happen.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1786
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Posted - 2014.02.02 13:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Ninjanomyx wrote:LOL......this thread. Over 4 Pages the only thing you have done is highlight the fact that not only are you stubborn as a Mule, cognitively distorted, mentally lackluster, oblivious to your blissful ignorance, and obviously lack any form of wisdom/experience in any form of combat.....be it digital or actual, but also provide multiple quotables that display irrefutable evidence that you may actually be the worst Gamer in the history of existence. This even when compared to those who are mentally handicapped, with social disorders, and even "Vegetables"......as I am more likely to find coherent informative knowledge in their ramblings while faux hearing than I would if I read a book you wrote on the subject.....attentively undivided. Stubborn: I don't have to change my opinion simply because I receive a bunch of narrow-minded feedback. I posted the idea. Many disagree. A few people agree. The general idea is that rotation velocity is a problem and we need a new mechanic or another change to address it. Worst gamer: Actually I am quite skilled and although I am sub 9 mil SP, I regularly finish in the top 3 of each match I play. I have built and used over 150 configurations of dropouts and have thoroughly familiarized myself with the skill tree, equipment, tacnet and game mechanics. I can play well in a squad or alone. I have extensive experience in both physical and digital combat as well as sound tactical judgment. I learn lessons from each experience and adapt quickly to new variables and insights. The time that you spent writing that paragraph passed in futility. You are a worthless mutation and I regret that you were ever born.
1 guy agrees, the rest of us told you it was a terrible idea that qualifies as stubborn , becausd you are still going.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1795
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Posted - 2014.02.03 00:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Baal Roo wrote:And why is "helpful" an important feature for the person who strategized poorly? If you're on your own without a squad, in the open with no cover, and someone ambushes you from behind, I see absolutely no reason whatsoever to "help you out" in that situation. you have played the game of Dust 514 poorly and you will likely lose a clone due to your bad gameplay. Apparently, you haven't played dust very long. There are many reasons why you might get caught alone. Here's an example, since you're incapable of using your own imagination: While piloting/riding a dropship you begin to take so much fire that your ship is imminently going down, so you bail out and apply the inertia dampener before you hit the ground. This attracts the attention of an enemy who just happens to be at your 6 and immediately opens fire on you. Due to slow turn rate, you perish :( Various other scenarios exist where a person must react to getting caught alone. This is a situation that every merc should be prepared to encounter. Empowering mercs with the ability to turn more quickly would be an enhancement to the game, in my opinion. You obviously have only one play style which limits your experience and understanding of complex situations, but there are many circumstances where turning speed is a critical element.
Ten that is your fault for letting your dropship get shot at.
People turn fast enough as it is, your head needs to be on a swivel.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1803
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Posted - 2014.02.03 09:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Ten that is your fault for letting your dropship get shot at.
People turn fast enough as it is, your head needs to be on a swivel. I perform regular 360s during the game. Nothing you say can convince me that this is not a much needed function, or the turn rate needs to be increased. You have only proven your lack of understanding of battlefield scenarios.
To the contrary, you have only managed to show your inability to be facing your enemy.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1805
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Posted - 2014.02.03 11:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=139901&find=unread#
Congratulations your idea was SO bad it's been replicated.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1808
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Posted - 2014.02.03 12:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:To the contrary, you have only managed to show your inability to be facing your enemy. Your arguments are normative statements. Monkey MAC wrote:
Ten that is your fault for letting your dropship get shot at.
People turn fast enough as it is, your head needs to be on a swivel.
Then truth be told if you are in a Scout suit you shouldn't really be getting shot at all. Your suit is fragile, not designed for 1v1, giving you a L1 double tap, won't improve your chances.
There is no need for a function that disadvantages the guy who took the ti e and effort to shoot you from a position of where he wouldn't getmshot.
Yes the construct of the game do account for armour, but that doesn't mean you should be able to turn round and blast the guy who got a superior position on you.
Normative statements cannot be used to logically deduce anything and are therefore utterly worthless. You probably exercise worthlessness on a daily basis, so be advised that when people disregard everything you say and think of you as having no value to the group, it is probably due to your lack of rational thinking. Regardless of whether or not the community wants the double click L1 function or faster turning speeds, my arguments are based on facts. 1. More than zero soldiers find themselves in a variety of scenarios while on the battle field. 2. Due to the constraints imposed by those scenarios, a soldier may find that he/she has been flanked. These are facts of war and the logical conclusion is that naturally, there will be occasions where a soldier has a need to quickly turn around. You claim the opposite. You lose. Learn from it.
Hold on, your telling my entire arguement is useless because you can't logically deduce anything from it?
You can't deduce the fact
1) If someone flanks you there is/should never a counter
2) That being flanked is often a result of poor awareness
3) That allowing someone to use your function can be exploited terribly
As you said above due to Scenarios that can happen people can find themselves flanked, it is down to the soilder not to find themselves in these scenarios.
Finally
Clone D wrote:
You loose
Learn from it
Take a leaf from your own book and stop getting shot in the back.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1809
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Posted - 2014.02.03 12:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Hold on, your telling my entire arguement is useless because you can't logically deduce anything from it?
You can't deduce the fact
1) If someone flanks you there is/should never a counter
2) That being flanked is often a result of poor awareness
3) That allowing someone to use your function can be exploited terribly
Take a leaf from your own book and stop getting shot in the back. Let me help you. This is a normative statement: Monkey MAC wrote:If someone flanks you there is/should never a counter The underlined word, should, indicates that this is a personal value and is therefore not a fact. This statement is up for interpretation and is dubious at best: Monkey MAC wrote:being flanked is often a result of poor awareness This is an opinion: Monkey MAC wrote:That allowing someone to use your function can be exploited terribly Go take a debate class. Your arguments are flakey at best.
Go to a psychiatrist your sturrborness will be a problem in later life.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1814
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Posted - 2014.02.03 15:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
Clone D wrote:m twiggz wrote:Clone D wrote:When I get shot, by the time I turn to face the person shooting me I am already dead.
In reality, I could turn much more quickly.
I recommend that double clicking L1 would immediately face your avatar toward the opponent that just shot you.
This is not auto aim, but a simple mechanic to forego turtle-speed turning (X sensitivity at 100%).
At least I could get off a shot or two before death.
UPDATE: It has been discussed that a quick 90 or 180 would be helpful as opposed to facing the opponent. Is this serious? Don't stand out in the open, PROBLEM SOLVED. Always stay near cover, when they shoot you get behind the cover. Simple. If they're behind you then you deserve to die for not knowing your surroundings. Even the 90/180 degree turn would be ridiculous. If anything was to be implemented I'd say give us higher sensitivity. Compared to most FPS games I've played the sensitivity in Dust is far below par. This has already been hashed out. Read the thread.
Hashed Out? No you've ignored ir because it doesn't fit your reasoning.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1834
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Posted - 2014.02.05 00:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sis le Fenychs wrote:Baal Roo wrote:
The problem here isn't that I don't understand your position or the scenarios in which a fast turn speed would "help," the problem is that we have a differing of opinion on whether that is the sort of "help" that should be afforded to players in the first place.
I'm completely unrelated to the OP and actually think that he handled this thread in the worst possible way. But could you tell me if you hate mouse players? Those can turn very quickly, after all. Would be nice to know. By the way, what do you think about a module that allows commando suits to use an ability similar to what OP proposed? It would snap to the closest target... Independant of IFF information. So a commando with that module would indirectly benefit from going lone wolf, as there wouldn't be any allies to auto-aim at. The idea would be to make the commando the one man army with restrictions - High scan profile, disadvantages when being supported, a severe lack of PG/CPU reserves as well as armor and low movement speed. I feel that that's the kind of thing that proto equipment should do. Completely weird, but useful with an atypical playstyle. Maybe the module should also require your passive scan to be capable of scanning the target. But that would be an insane disadvantage for a heavy suit and more suited to a scout. I prefer to look on the bright side when it comes to game mechanics, instead of dismissing everything and whining. It's a lot more fun and much more productive that way.
Their is an input wide rotation cap, KBM users do not physically turn any faster than DS3 users, if anything they turn slightly slower due to latency.
As for a Module as you described, how much easier do you want this game?
What next a Module that can automatically pull the trigger for you?
No suit Is a "One-Man Army" ever, that is a COD mentality, I friggin give up with some of you people sometimes.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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