DUST Search - Remove payouts for loosing

Piraten Hovnoret wrote:

The Infected One wrote:

So squads can just proto stomp the newer low SP/ISK players into the ground in every match until they all run out of money and have to run nothing but starter fits and have even less chance of ever winning and actually making money?
GTFO.

How to kill DUST in a month: Remove ISK payouts for the losing team.

There's already a large enough gap between "Vets" and newer players since matchmaking is broken as ****, and you actually want further segregation so that you can pub stomp with impunity and have a circle jerk with your buddies and tell each other how awesome you are for going 30+/1 in proto gear against a bunch of starter fits?

******* hell man, are you THAT unskilled of a player that you need yet ANOTHER advantage over the new players?

Do us all a favor before you post again and try to think from the perspective of a new player to this game. Would you stick around if you never got paid because your team never won due to a bunch of proto using players? **** no you wouldn't, and I wouldn't blame you.

Its a big enough challenge as it is for new players to get into this game and learn the mechanics/skill system, what weapon suits them when everything costs ISK per death, and on average 50000-200000 ISK for the skill books to even try out a weapon, module, or equipment without spending real money on AUR.

Do you think a new player will even think of spending real money on a game that they have no chance of advancing in because the older players with all the money and SP can just pull out top tier equipment and mop the floors with them, causing them to lose more ISK, and gain nothing for their effort in an inevitable losing battle?

I agree that there has to be some incentive to actually try and win each fight, but removing the ISK payout for the losing team is not the answer.

One could go the rout of removing proto suits and weapons from pub matches (Let people run proto modules and equipment if they want, they will have to sacrifice something due to the lower PG and CPU of the basic and adv suits), because its the ability of the proto suits to stack everything proto and adv that makes such a huge gap between player skill vs player gear.

Take that as a nay

Man this is not a personal insult to you or who ever.
However if I am unskilled or what my current walet is was not the topic that was intended.

If I in any way have insulted you on a personal level I apologise for that but you sir will not in your high horse manner get me to be quite just because you don't agree with this or anything else.

I liked your arguments in that post however leave the personal insults the high attitude and calm down.

Regards

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Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2647	Posted - 2014.01.28 13:50:00 - [31] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: I have long believed that SP payout for time in battle should be removed completely in exchange for a tiered multiplier of warpoints based on rank and activity. I feel like the way the isk is calculated works great, the only issues being that the protostompers reap the benefit in having their money returned to them while the losing side is stuck shaking their heads. To counter this the payout for time in battle becomes less thanks to the battle being shorter, but that effect needs to be increased. If the payout for the length of the battle grew at more of an exponential rate where a 10 minute battle has significantly less than a 15 minute battle (an example being 1k for first minute, 2k for the second, and so on) the system would further reward the battles which go back and forth while the protostomps and redlines receive a lower payout from the pool but a higher payout from lost equipment if the opposing team keeps fighting. tl;dr drop time in battle SP, raise time in battle isk pool exponentially over the course of the battle = screw afkers, redliners, and protostompers + reward those who fight back against redlines and protostomps to keep the match going and kill expensive suits with freebies To me this is the way to go. If you only get 25 War Points you didn't risk much at all, so you get table scraps. ML Director Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1695	Posted - 2014.01.28 13:51:00 - [32] - Quote 1) We already have reduced payouts for loosing 2) Its not the win loose payout that's the problem, its the passive payment, you get something like 1,000 isk every half a minute. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Akdhar Saif Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative 198	Posted - 2014.01.28 13:51:00 - [33] - Quote Piraten Hovnoret wrote: Hey guys just have a suggestion Wy don't have no payouts if you loose a battle Or the payout when loosing is reduced. This will fix afk farming that many does and it will also be a isk sink that this game needs Again this is a suggestion god or bad idk I just want your ides over this. Regards Only when CCP add a PVE mode. That way we can lose a PVP match and still make money in a PVE mode.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2647	Posted - 2014.01.28 13:54:00 - [34] - Quote The biggest problem is that there is no incentive to win. I think the new player tutorials should also warn players that the objectives are the priority. Tell them than stopping to hack turrets and such will allow the enemy to gain a foothold that will be tough to overcome. I'd also tell them that uplinks up high should be used as a fallback, emergency spawn. Roof camping will end poorly 90% of the time. ML Director Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
xAckie Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 409	Posted - 2014.01.28 13:56:00 - [35] - Quote but thy are not afking for isk. you can run free suits. people afk to ensure they get sp
Teilka Darkmist 130	Posted - 2014.01.28 13:58:00 - [36] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Teilka Darkmist wrote: Passive SP is not 5 per second. Open up your skill tree and watch it for a minute or so. With a +50% booster, the largest you can currently buy still, it ticks at roughly 1 per second. He is referring to passive SP in battle (aka bonus SP) which is an additional 5 per second on top of the 24k per day passive SP. That bonus SP is what keeps AFKers smoking a cig in the MCC and getting paid for it. My mistake then. I didn't realise there was a different passive rate in battle. They should enable friendly fire in MCC's I saw someone afk stood in the corner last night. Shot them with my SR, forgetting I was in a pub gor a second. Just got the shield flare and no damage. Or we should be able to push them out and watch them splat. When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
Soldier Sorajord Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION 30	Posted - 2014.01.28 13:59:00 - [37] - Quote Piraten Hovnoret wrote: Hey guys just have a suggestion Wy don't have no payouts if you loose a battle Or the payout when loosing is reduced. This will fix afk farming that many does and it will also be a isk sink that this game needs Again this is a suggestion god or bad idk I just want your ides over this. Regards No. Bad idea. This would render the game useless. What's the point of fighting and trying your hardest if there's nothing to win? Say you are in a domination where its 2sqd vs 2sqd. Both go proto in an attempt to win, and the opposing side cloned your side out.. You would lose bookoo bucks. 150 proto suits wasted for no isk? Garbage. Honor, Teamwork, Victory. I may only be a meager soldier now. But I will become.. *Legend!* Gallente Loyalist
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 3665	Posted - 2014.01.28 14:00:00 - [38] - Quote ** * *** My alts: General John Ripper, Draxus Prime, MoonEagle A, Anarchide, Long Evity And this is why I am the #1 forum warrior
knight of 6 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1258	Posted - 2014.01.28 14:00:00 - [39] - Quote I haven't seen this thread since closed beta... what do you do if you are losing an FW match? leave because there is no profit in it? or stay because you want to lose more isk... "God favors the side with the best artillery" ~ Napoleon Ko6, scout. CLOSED BETA VET
Teilka Darkmist 130	Posted - 2014.01.28 14:06:00 - [40] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: The biggest problem is that there is no incentive to win. I think the new player tutorials should also warn players that the objectives are the priority. Tell them than stopping to hack turrets and such will allow the enemy to gain a foothold that will be tough to overcome. I'd also tell them that uplinks up high should be used as a fallback, emergency spawn. Roof camping will end poorly 90% of the time. The objectives and the CRU's are the priority. If you have two players going to an unclaimed objective with a CRU nearby, one should get the objective and one the CRU. If you're heading for an enemy held objective with CrU, the CRU takes priority so they can't spawn behind you as you're trying to hack the objective. Supply depots come right after the objective and CRU, no point helping the enemy out. As to turrets, I find the damn tankers tend to take them out first thing. It's a waste of time to hack them at all if the ones closest to your start point have been destroyed. When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.

Marc Rime 234	Posted - 2014.01.28 14:06:00 - [41] - Quote Wonder how long non-afking bluedots would stay on the losing team if this change was implemented. ...actually, I don't, the answer is pretty obvious.
Teilka Darkmist 130	Posted - 2014.01.28 14:08:00 - [42] - Quote knight of 6 wrote: I haven't seen this thread since closed beta... what do you do if you are losing an FW match? leave because there is no profit in it? or stay because you want to lose more isk... Stay for the SP. And to keep my eye in with my SR. When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
Piraten Hovnoret Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 256	Posted - 2014.01.28 14:59:00 - [43] - Quote AWSOME discussion guys. Some have really strong arguments both for and against. Myself I find the post where someone stated that this should not be done before/if PVE comes into play be one one the strongest Regards War never changes
Ripley Riley 387	Posted - 2014.01.28 15:09:00 - [44] - Quote Piraten Hovnoret wrote: Hello General Discussion, I have a suggestion... Why don't we remove ISK payouts from losing a match? Either that, or severely reduce the payout for losing. I believe this will help prevent AFK match farming and provide a much-needed ISK sink. This is just a suggestion. Please discuss and provide feedback on this suggestion as you see fit. Hope that helps everyone. "I need not food nor water. Your tears alone sustain me." - Ripley Riley
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1250	Posted - 2014.01.28 15:11:00 - [45] - Quote Losing often costs more than winning. And as it is, the horribly unbalanced matchmaking forces a lot of people into incredibly one-sided matches. But with both ISK and SP, hopefully CCP will lean more on basing these values on WP earned, so that the more you do, the more you get. And people who AFK will get absolutely nothing, and hence, eventually stop AFKing. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Piraten Hovnoret Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 257	Posted - 2014.01.28 15:18:00 - [46] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Piraten Hovnoret wrote: Hello General Discussion, I have a suggestion... Why don't we remove ISK payouts from losing a match? Either that, or severely reduce the payout for losing. I believe this will help prevent AFK match farming and provide a much-needed ISK sink. This is just a suggestion. Please discuss and provide feedback on this suggestion as you see fit. Hope that helps everyone. lol Thanks bud War never changes
Espartoi Zero-Day Attack Zero-Day 52	Posted - 2014.01.28 15:19:00 - [47] - Quote Piraten Hovnoret wrote: Hey guys just have a suggestion Wy don't have no payouts if you loose a battle Or the payout when loosing is reduced. This will fix afk farming that many does and it will also be a isk sink that this game needs Again this is a suggestion god or bad idk I just want your ides over this. Regards If you want hat play some PCs if that is aplied to all matches whiners are gonna whing hard. Dying must be buffed.
Awesome Pantaloons Lokapalas. 249	Posted - 2014.01.28 15:19:00 - [48] - Quote Piraten Hovnoret wrote: Hey guys just have a suggestion Wy don't have no payouts if you loose a battle Or the payout when loosing is reduced. This will fix afk farming that many does and it will also be a isk sink that this game needs Again this is a suggestion god or bad idk I just want your ides over this. Regards You may be trolling, in which case this can be regardless. Far worse, you may be serious. If so, leave. Sign out of the forums and never pollute the pages with this kind of filth again. If all game modes give jack-** for the losing team, then either you're with a proto stomping group or you're pretty much ** for the entire game. Lots of loss + no reward = ** game. gtfo "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited." -The Code of Demeanor
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 1686	Posted - 2014.01.28 15:20:00 - [49] - Quote i'd rather they increase the pay outs for winning. we don't make enough isk in dust as it is. eve operates in the billions we barely operate in the thousands
Piraten Hovnoret Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 258	Posted - 2014.01.28 15:31:00 - [50] - Quote Awesome Pantaloons wrote: Piraten Hovnoret wrote: Hey guys just have a suggestion Wy don't have no payouts if you loose a battle Or the payout when loosing is reduced. This will fix afk farming that many does and it will also be a isk sink that this game needs Again this is a suggestion god or bad idk I just want your ides over this. Regards You may be trolling, in which case this can be regardless. Far worse, you may be serious. If so, leave. Sign out of the forums and never pollute the pages with this kind of filth again. If all game modes give jack-** for the losing team, then either you're with a proto stomping group or you're pretty much ** for the entire game. Lots of loss + no reward = ** game. gtfo And who are you to decide what's the "right" thing to type or suggest? I my self find that I need to get input from others at times unlike others that believe everything they think/suggest is the right way always. Unlike you sir I can listen and take in arguments that are not my own and look if my original statement is good or if it's need some more work. Again I liked the post where some one posted that this can be only done when PVE comes into play. I also understand the posts where ppl are worried about the new players getting nothing if they loose, that's a very very strong argument. As I look at it this game is not ready to have this implemented right now but it's a issue worth looking into in due time. So thanks for al the good arguments personal insults aside Regards War never changes

Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 1033	Posted - 2014.01.28 15:34:00 - [51] - Quote Sounds like a nice way to get even more people to abandon matches, is the OP riding the shortbus to school?
Piraten Hovnoret Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 259	Posted - 2014.01.28 15:39:00 - [52] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: Sounds like a nice way to get even more people to abandon matches, is the OP riding the shortbus to school? Nope I drive a Ferrari bro... Oh not right now it's winter so I take the BMW m5 to work Oh did I just troll Yeah I guess I did War never changes
Jake Bloodworth Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 327	Posted - 2014.01.28 15:53:00 - [53] - Quote StoneSmasher Drugga wrote: Piraten Hovnoret wrote: Hey guys just have a suggestion Wy don't have no payouts if you loose a battle Or the payout when loosing is reduced. This will fix afk farming that many does and it will also be a isk sink that this game needs Again this is a suggestion god or bad idk I just want your ides over this. Regards I, too, have a suggestion: learn how to spell. Having been on voice comms with the OP, I laughed when I read this. English is not his first language by far. That being said, I've never had an issue understanding him. I can't say that for many Dust players... As for the suggestion, I think you should be compensated for losing. However, make it like Eve. Lose your ship? You get a free rookie ship. Lose a match in Dust... The merc should be compensated with enough money to purchase a frontline level suit for each death.
Teilka Darkmist 131	Posted - 2014.01.28 16:22:00 - [54] - Quote Jake Bloodworth wrote: StoneSmasher Drugga wrote: Piraten Hovnoret wrote: Hey guys just have a suggestion Wy don't have no payouts if you loose a battle Or the payout when loosing is reduced. This will fix afk farming that many does and it will also be a isk sink that this game needs Again this is a suggestion god or bad idk I just want your ides over this. Regards I, too, have a suggestion: learn how to spell. Having been on voice comms with the OP, I laughed when I read this. English is not his first language by far. That being said, I've never had an issue understanding him. I can't say that for many Dust players... As for the suggestion, I think you should be compensated for losing. However, make it like Eve. Lose your ship? You get a free rookie ship. Lose a match in Dust... The merc should be compensated with enough money to purchase a frontline level suit for each death. I'm sorry to have to point this out, but when you lose your ship in eve, you don't get a free rookie ship. You get a payment, in isk, of a percentage of the average market value of the ship you lost, although just the hull, not the modules. You get a rookie ship anytime you dock up in just your pod, when you don't have a ship in the station. The rookieship is pretty much useless for anything other than the tutorial missions and very slowly mining very small amounts of asteroids. When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 184	Posted - 2014.01.28 16:32:00 - [55] - Quote People are already poor enough as it is! My main is not really poor but all of my alts are poor as hell. So lets see.... You have players with hundreds of millions if not billions of isk, most of which was either given by CCP for salvage, or they have an isk printing machine in PC. The vast majority of the other players are poor and you want to make them poorer? LOL
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2649	Posted - 2014.01.28 16:59:00 - [56] - Quote I think the poor overall payouts are what is leading to the crap matches where one side largely quits very early on. As others have said the ISK payouts for winning and performance need to increase. 80% (or whatever it is) of the payout shouldn't come from mere attendance. ML Director Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
Onesimus Tarsus 997	Posted - 2014.01.28 17:13:00 - [57] - Quote What if payout was determined by more competitive play? Maybe, the shorter of a time that one team has been ahead at the end, the bigger the payout? Spit-balling, I know. Maybe some random matches are labeled "premium" matches, and winning that match pays out huge for the winner (almost SP event type stuff), and a real penalty low payout for the loser? What I'm saying is that they wouldn't have to monkey with too much, just let payout and other factors sort of equal "modes". "Wrath of God" mode: frequent, side-agnostic orbitals from some imagined third party. Target density is the triggering mechanism. No new mechanics needed, but gameplay is shaken up quite a bit. Free, on-demand Respecs. Because it doesn't matter and no one should care. Matchmaking by KDR proximity. :)
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 325	Posted - 2014.01.28 17:23:00 - [58] - Quote I don't think removing the payout for losing a match is fair to the losing team -- in particular, players who actually try. What I would do, is lower the relative payouts of the losing team....so there is an increased incentive to try. There are far too many people who would rather run circles in the redline than actually play to win -- which is quite frustrating for those of us who actually try.
The Infected One Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 612	Posted - 2014.01.28 17:34:00 - [59] - Quote Piraten Hovnoret wrote: The Infected One wrote: So squads can just proto stomp the newer low SP/ISK players into the ground in every match until they all run out of money and have to run nothing but starter fits and have even less chance of ever winning and actually making money? GTFO. How to kill DUST in a month: Remove ISK payouts for the losing team. There's already a large enough gap between "Vets" and newer players since matchmaking is broken as **, and you actually want further segregation so that you can pub stomp with impunity and have a circle jerk with your buddies and tell each other how awesome you are for going 30+/1 in proto gear against a bunch of starter fits? *** hell man, are you THAT unskilled of a player that you need yet ANOTHER advantage over the new players? Do us all a favor before you post again and try to think from the perspective of a new player to this game. Would you stick around if you never got paid because your team never won due to a bunch of proto using players? ** no you wouldn't, and I wouldn't blame you. Its a big enough challenge as it is for new players to get into this game and learn the mechanics/skill system, what weapon suits them when everything costs ISK per death, and on average 50000-200000 ISK for the skill books to even try out a weapon, module, or equipment without spending real money on AUR. Do you think a new player will even think of spending real money on a game that they have no chance of advancing in because the older players with all the money and SP can just pull out top tier equipment and mop the floors with them, causing them to lose more ISK, and gain nothing for their effort in an inevitable losing battle? I agree that there has to be some incentive to actually try and win each fight, but removing the ISK payout for the losing team is not the answer. One could go the rout of removing proto suits and weapons from pub matches (Let people run proto modules and equipment if they want, they will have to sacrifice something due to the lower PG and CPU of the basic and adv suits), because its the ability of the proto suits to stack everything proto and adv that makes such a huge gap between player skill vs player gear. Take that as a nay Man this is not a personal insult to you or who ever. However if I am unskilled or what my current walet is was not the topic that was intended. If I in any way have insulted you on a personal level I apologise for that but you sir will not in your high horse manner get me to be quite just because you don't agree with this or anything else. I liked your arguments in that post however leave the personal insults the high attitude and calm down. Regards I apologize for the personal attack, it was out of line since you clearly weren't bragging about proto stomping the new guys. That point though (without the personal stuff) still stands, as this is what will result from removing the isk payout for lowing battles. Frustrated browsing of these forums late at night can cause me to be arrogant and rude when there is no need for it. "NEW MISSION! I want you to blow up... THE OCEAN!" BURN ALL THE BABIES!!!!
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2650	Posted - 2014.01.28 17:36:00 - [60] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: I don't think removing the payout for losing a match is fair to the losing team -- in particular, players who actually try. What I would do, is lower the relative payouts of the losing team....so there is an increased incentive to try. There are far too many people who would rather run circles in the redline than actually play to win -- which is quite frustrating for those of us who actually try. I actually think the losing side should get more ISK than they currently get if they put up a good fight (3000 WP on the losing side should get paid well). BUT the winning side should have some multiplier applied for the win. The most I can recall getting paid in recent months is 550,000 ISK. I used to get that in doms every other match. Molon helps out it's players when they are broke so they can play to win matches. Not all players have that luxury. It's crazy to think that you'd want FPS players to go on a budget 80% of their play time. Someone should start a union because these companies paying mercs for public battles are some cheap bastards. ML Director Eve Toon - Raylan Scott



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