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Disallowing proto in pubs?

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TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2430	Posted - 2014.01.26 10:25:00 - [1] - Quote Although guilty of proto stomping in the past, I have seen the light as it were. Who agrees, who disagrees and why. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
CrotchGrab 360 The Men In The Mirror 1387	Posted - 2014.01.26 10:35:00 - [2] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Although guilty of proto stomping in the past, I have seen the light as it were. Who agrees, who disagrees and why. I agree but not on a personal level, only because it destroys what little positive new player experience there is. I don't care myself, ADV scrambler rifle makes people in protos 180 and run away. Grinding the rest of the SP out for complex damage mods today, then protos beware
darkiller240 WarRavens League of Infamy 310	Posted - 2014.01.26 10:38:00 - [3] - Quote Its best just to put, STd battles, ADv battles and Pro battle. In that way You can make a profit in a pro battle "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 81	Posted - 2014.01.26 10:40:00 - [4] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Although guilty of proto stomping in the past, I have seen the light as it were. Who agrees, who disagrees and why. The differnce between the adv and pro amar logi is minimal 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter militia frame, Templar set
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2430	Posted - 2014.01.26 10:41:00 - [5] - Quote CrotchGrab 360 wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Although guilty of proto stomping in the past, I have seen the light as it were. Who agrees, who disagrees and why. I agree but not on a personal level, only because it destroys what little positive new player experience there is. I don't care myself, ADV scrambler rifle makes people in protos 180 and run away. Grinding the rest of the SP out for complex damage mods today, then protos beware Precisely yeah. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
Rizlax Yazzax Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 47	Posted - 2014.01.26 10:43:00 - [6] - Quote I'm on the line when it comes to proto in pubs. There's only one protosuit I use for pubs and that's so I can swarm effectively but I have plenty of fits that use complex extenders/reps and my logi always uses proto rep tool, even on the cheap fit. So while it is annoying being stomped by full proto squads, where is the cut-off point between stomping and just being more effective? If I use a proto suit and weapon but ADV mods is that stomping? How about an ADV suit and weapon but proto mods? Or a proto weapon on a militia suit? Sure a full proto set-up is the definitive stomp fit, but at what point does it stop being a good fit and become a stomper? And also other points such as matchmaking/lack of game types that make stomping so easy etc etc.
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2430	Posted - 2014.01.26 10:43:00 - [7] - Quote NK Scout wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Although guilty of proto stomping in the past, I have seen the light as it were. Who agrees, who disagrees and why. The differnce between the adv and pro amar logi is minimal Yeah, what's your point? Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5976	Posted - 2014.01.26 10:43:00 - [8] - Quote Can't disallow proto in pubs, disallowing anything is bad. You just need to make it so running proto in pubs is less appealing. The problem stems from two reasons, 1) PC generates too much ISK, many people can run proto all day every day without giving it a second thought 2) FW isn't enticing enough. CCP thought if they gave players and ISK sink they would sink the ISK, but no one is going to sink ISK just for the sake of it. Most would rather do pubs which rewards better. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Storm Shelton Ethereal Horizon 15	Posted - 2014.01.26 10:44:00 - [9] - Quote Well, I agree with you on the terms of pub stomping. It does get a bit too ridiculous with certain individuals who exploit every OP asset available, All the time. Nonetheless, It is a realism of Dust514 and you will have to accommodate to the challenge, As I'm sure you already have. For example: I do not play ambush past 9:00 P.M. (EST). Reason? Nyain San is pubbing with tanks, tanks & Oh did I mention tanks? Its a strategy they employ and I don't feel like losing my 350k Logi suits for no cause, So I will play Skimishes or Dominations unless for some odd reason I'm feeling lucky. (That is usually accompanied by lots of alcohol) Its just one of the realities on Dust you have to face and accept. Good day sir! o7 You're saying its a bad idea? Well stick around. I'm full of bad ideas.
Marad''er Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 643	Posted - 2014.01.26 10:46:00 - [10] - Quote Naaa.. Squads that proto stomp will still stomp regardless. PVE is answer to everything tho. GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 4 \| pâÅpéñpâápü»tºüpü«µëôµÆâpéÆF¦ápüúpüªpüäpéï \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2430	Posted - 2014.01.26 10:46:00 - [11] - Quote Storm Shelton wrote: Well, I agree with you on the terms of pub stomping. It does get a bit too ridiculous with certain individuals who exploit every OP asset available, All the time. Nonetheless, It is a realism of Dust514 and you will have to accommodate to the challenge, As I'm sure you already have. For example: I do not play ambush past 9:00 P.M. (EST). Reason? Nyain San is pubbing with tanks, tanks & Oh did I mention tanks? Its a strategy they employ and I don't feel like losing my 350k Logi suits for no cause, So I will play Skimishes or Dominations unless for some odd reason I'm feeling lucky. (That is usually accompanied by lots of alcohol) Its just one of the realities on Dust you have to face and accept. Good day sir! o7 No its not, the devs build the game on our feedback, the 1.8 stat changes are a clear example. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 81	Posted - 2014.01.26 10:47:00 - [12] - Quote Storm Shelton wrote: Well, I agree with you on the terms of pub stomping. It does get a bit too ridiculous with certain individuals who exploit every OP asset available, All the time. Nonetheless, It is a realism of Dust514 and you will have to accommodate to the challenge, As I'm sure you already have. For example: I do not play ambush past 9:00 P.M. (EST). Reason? Nyain San is pubbing with tanks, tanks & Oh did I mention tanks? Its a strategy they employ and I don't feel like losing my 350k Logi suits for no cause, So I will play Skimishes or Dominations unless for some odd reason I'm feeling lucky. (That is usually accompanied by lots of alcohol) Its just one of the realities on Dust you have to face and accept. Good day sir! o7 Dude, DUDE! 350k on ONE suit! Wtf take off that pro weapon and put a adv weapon Take off a pro sidearm with a adv one 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter militia frame, Templar set
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 239	Posted - 2014.01.26 10:55:00 - [13] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Although guilty of proto stomping in the past, I have seen the light as it were. Who agrees, who disagrees and why. I think that more sense and impact on gameplay have separating KB/M players from DS3 ones. CCP already took steps(as always) on balancing gameplay on pub matches by introducing LP shop with give playe early access to proto stuff. I'm here since may 2012, my EVE alter ego is Nosum Hseebnrido.
Storm Shelton Ethereal Horizon 15	Posted - 2014.01.26 10:58:00 - [14] - Quote No. Being a Logi that actually keeps the squad alive requires the best. Playing with my ADV suit equipped with ADV equipment doesn't quite hit the spot. Nothing like repping up two heavies at the same time on battlefront. Can't do that with my ADV gear. You're saying its a bad idea? Well stick around. I'm full of bad ideas.
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2432	Posted - 2014.01.26 11:01:00 - [15] - Quote Storm Shelton wrote: No. Being a Logi that actually keeps the squad alive requires the best. Playing with my ADV suit equipped with ADV equipment doesn't quite hit the spot. Nothing like repping up two heavies at the same time on battlefront. Can't do that with my ADV gear. Haha, I know all about the pain of being a logi with nubs leading me to my death, its horrible. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1681	Posted - 2014.01.26 11:01:00 - [16] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Although guilty of proto stomping in the past, I have seen the light as it were. Who agrees, who disagrees and why. I disagree. The game shouldn't be about limitations at every corner. It should allow you to use Proto all the time if you want. Limitations are the wrong way to go. Fixed matchmaking should fix that problem anyways. But we don't know when that comes. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 81	Posted - 2014.01.26 11:02:00 - [17] - Quote Storm Shelton wrote: No. Being a Logi that actually keeps the squad alive requires the best. Playing with my ADV suit equipped with ADV equipment doesn't quite hit the spot. Nothing like repping up two heavies at the same time on battlefront. Can't do that with my ADV gear. Never said stop using proto suits just your 2proto weps 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter militia frame, Templar set
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2432	Posted - 2014.01.26 11:02:00 - [18] - Quote I'm starting to feel less guilty, keep the disagreements coming. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
Velishe Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.01.26 11:03:00 - [19] - Quote Marad''er wrote: Naaa.. Squads that proto stomp will still stomp regardless. PVE is answer to everything tho. I came back hoping to see PvE content in the game because fighting in these battles as a solo is a joke. I don't play enough to be in a corp so there is no point in joining one. I have seen the tank squads and proto squads you speak of and they do faceroll the newbies with ease. There needs to be a cut off point or to segregate the different tiers of suits and equipment. I would say add a hidden point range to the different tiers say at 0 to 100 points you can go into a standard fitted battle 100 to 1000 advanced 1000 to 2000 prototype battles. The points for the tiers could go something like 50 for advanced suits and 20 for the equipment of advanced stats. 100 for prototype suits and 50 for the prototype equipment. This way if you make a suit with to high a point range you will be moved to the next battle up and wont be able to compete against the new players in militia equipment.
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2432	Posted - 2014.01.26 11:05:00 - [20] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Although guilty of proto stomping in the past, I have seen the light as it were. Who agrees, who disagrees and why. I disagree. The game shouldn't be about limitations at every corner. It should allow you to use Proto all the time if you want. Limitations are the wrong way to go. Fixed matchmaking should fix that problem anyways. But we don't know when that comes. How could that work considering the many variables of mods, suits, sp etc. Doesn't matchmaking do precisely what you stated is wrong? It would limit who plays with who far more than simply disallowing proto. Just saying. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
Teilka Darkmist 76	Posted - 2014.01.26 11:06:00 - [21] - Quote Doesn't really matter what we think about it, CCP aren't going to ban anything from any game mode. Not without a very good lore reason behind it. As far as I know the closest they've ever come to this is making it so Capital ships can't go to certain parts of space, which makes sense as stargates can't jump them around, you need jump drives and cynos to do that. Proto suits on the other hand, are just a more advanced version of the advanced suits, they have a bit more armour, a bit more shields, more slots and a higher PG and CPU output. There is no lore reason to disallow them from certain types of games. When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
Storm Shelton Ethereal Horizon 17	Posted - 2014.01.26 11:06:00 - [22] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Haha, I know all about the pain of being a logi with nubs leading me to my death, its horrible. Yes sir! The good ol' "ISK vs. Doing your job" gig. Never gets old. You're saying its a bad idea? Well stick around. I'm full of bad ideas.
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2433	Posted - 2014.01.26 11:09:00 - [23] - Quote Storm Shelton wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Haha, I know all about the pain of being a logi with nubs leading me to my death, its horrible. Yes sir! The good ol' "ISK vs. Bending over occasionally" gig. Never gets old. Fixed mate Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
Storm Shelton Ethereal Horizon 19	Posted - 2014.01.26 11:10:00 - [24] - Quote NK Scout wrote: Never said stop using proto suits just your 2proto weps LOL I wish I could. Gotta have the proto weapon to defend myself in case I end up in a tight spot. Like blues taking cover behind me when I'm repairing their armor and there is reds incoming. Not good at all. You're saying its a bad idea? Well stick around. I'm full of bad ideas.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 2147	Posted - 2014.01.26 11:11:00 - [25] - Quote Go ahead and ban proto stuff in pubs. Then every 1 will truely invincible in their militia tanks. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2433	Posted - 2014.01.26 11:11:00 - [26] - Quote Storm Shelton wrote: NK Scout wrote: Never said stop using proto suits just your 2proto weps LOL I wish I could. Gotta have the proto weapon to defend myself in case I end up in a tight spot. Like blues taking cover behind me when I'm repairing their armor and there is reds incoming. Not good at all. This is going off topic but meh, heavies that try to hide behind you when you are repping them. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
Storm Shelton Ethereal Horizon 19	Posted - 2014.01.26 11:12:00 - [27] - Quote Yes. Why I do believe that makes more sense these days. hahaha You're saying its a bad idea? Well stick around. I'm full of bad ideas.
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2433	Posted - 2014.01.26 11:14:00 - [28] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Go ahead and ban proto stuff in pubs. Then every 1 will truely invincible in their militia tanks. That's a bit of a hype but a good point nonetheless. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
Storm Shelton Ethereal Horizon 19	Posted - 2014.01.26 11:18:00 - [29] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: This is going off topic but meh, heavies that try to hide behind you when you are repping them. Yes They have double my HP, Even when they are taking fire. BUT! It just makes more sense to hide behind the lesser HP Logi and let the Rep Trooper get riddled with holes. You're saying its a bad idea? Well stick around. I'm full of bad ideas.
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 83	Posted - 2014.01.26 11:19:00 - [30] - Quote Storm Shelton wrote: NK Scout wrote: Never said stop using proto suits just your 2proto weps LOL I wish I could. Gotta have the proto weapon to defend myself in case I end up in a tight spot. Like blues taking cover behind me when I'm repairing their armor and there is reds incoming. Not good at all. Use a adv weqpon Just as effective but alot cheaper Continue wasting isk 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter militia frame, Templar set
Piraten Hovnoret Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 246	Posted - 2014.01.26 11:24:00 - [31] - Quote The problem is not protostomping it's that the jump from ACADAMY to EVERYTHING else is to steep. When you throw in ppl that are in militia gear against 30-40 Miljon sp players only one thing can happen. The great thing about eve is the security rating of the systems where new players can get into the game learn and have fun in 00 space then expand out when they are ready, however 00 space is not locked to them and that is AWSOME. In dust well you do 3-4 ACADAMY games ( if TOTALY new to the game ) then you are thrown into " 0,0 space " I have had friends that have tryed dust and they LOVE the ACADAMY but after a day or 2 in the other games they just ask me "Wy should I keep on doing this bull **** it's not fun" And that's the biggest problem this game has it's just not fun for new players. Al other issues like gun balance, tanks etc are not the problem in the long run, new player base is Regards War never changes
Oswald Rehnquist 1167	Posted - 2014.01.26 11:25:00 - [32] - Quote I disagree, and it doesn't solve the root problem, also coming from a guy who doesn't have sp into a single suit and still only runs bpos. TTK is so short that the difference between militia and proto is like a split second of difference, the main dividing factor is player skill and teamwork. Stomping will always occur with our current matchmaker system. To give an example when my fw squads (of randoms) want to do pubs to get isk, we run our cheap bpo/std suits to recuperate but the match is still a stomp regardless, often redlining them in the first 5 mins. And the reason we stomped was because we played with each other in harder fw matches so we have familiarity with each other, we are talking to each other, we asked for help to raise up our shortcomings, we coordinate attacks and are not afraid to sacrifice ourselves if it really gives us the upper hand (we can ask people to watch our back as we hack), etc. That's a lot of work for a non communicative group of randoms to deal with, we do fw 99% of the time but some in the group need isk so sometimes we'll do a few pubs like one day of the week for a couple of times, but the results are mostly the same as I described Below 28 dB
Storm Shelton Ethereal Horizon 20	Posted - 2014.01.26 11:26:00 - [33] - Quote NK Scout wrote: Use a adv weqpon Just as effective but alot cheaper Continue wasting isk Will do sir. You're saying its a bad idea? Well stick around. I'm full of bad ideas.
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 247	Posted - 2014.01.26 11:39:00 - [34] - Quote I would normally say no to this kind of thing, but we don't have the player base for tiered matches or proper matchmaking so, **** yes proto every thing should be undeployable in pubs.
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 83	Posted - 2014.01.26 11:41:00 - [35] - Quote Storm Shelton wrote: NK Scout wrote: Use a adv weqpon Just as effective but alot cheaper Continue wasting isk Will do sir. Your fit is too expensive Use a adv weapon because proto gives a tiny increase for 7x the cost 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter militia frame, Templar set
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 247	Posted - 2014.01.26 11:44:00 - [36] - Quote oh and if the sentiment is against that then CCP needs to drastically increase the cost of proto gear, you shouldn't see proto come out every match all match long and yet that is exactly what you are seeing, hell most matches should be proto free.
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 83	Posted - 2014.01.26 11:46:00 - [37] - Quote hgghyujh wrote: oh and if the sentiment is against that then CCP needs to drastically increase the cost of proto gear, you shouldn't see proto come out every match all match long and yet that is exactly what you are seeing, hell most matches should be proto free. Ugh, I bought 18 proto suits for 1 mil So expensive Cant imagine how scouts feel 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter militia frame, Templar set
deezy dabest Warpoint Sharx 180	Posted - 2014.01.26 11:51:00 - [38] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: I disagree. The game shouldn't be about limitations at every corner. It should allow you to use Proto all the time if you want. Limitations are the wrong way to go. Fixed matchmaking should fix that problem anyways. But we don't know when that comes. Agreed. A matchmaking fix can only come with higher player counts. Higher player counts only come with new player retention. Answer: Fix the academy and then grow fixes out from there once some forward progress is being made. One would think CCP wants this anyway to bring fresh money spending customers into the game but their actions would indicate that this logic has evaded them in most every form.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2295	Posted - 2014.01.26 11:54:00 - [39] - Quote Mentioned this months ago Most common excuses were 'i earned my gear so i should be able to use it' and 'the playerbase is too small' Both are BS all you have is a basic room for skirm/domo in rotation so proto stompers can join the other rooms and those who want to use basic use this room Intelligence is OP
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 84	Posted - 2014.01.26 11:58:00 - [40] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: I disagree. The game shouldn't be about limitations at every corner. It should allow you to use Proto all the time if you want. Limitations are the wrong way to go. Fixed matchmaking should fix that problem anyways. But we don't know when that comes. Agreed. A matchmaking fix can only come with higher player counts. Higher player counts only come with new player retention. Answer: Fix the academy and then grow fixes out from there once some forward progress is being made. One would think CCP wants this anyway to bring fresh money spending customers into the game but their actions would indicate that this logic has evaded them in most every form. Make game slightly less grind Increase new player sp to 1 mil or 2 mil 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter militia frame, Templar set
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1346	Posted - 2014.01.26 12:05:00 - [41] - Quote I think we have to consider the size of the player base to. We could balance it after matchmaking to allow for the smaller player base. Off the top of my head : 1) Scotty puts the best mix he can together based on queue size, squads etc. If a % of people on each team can run proto then any suit is allowed. If only one team has proto then it lowers the max tier allowed to advanced. What I am getting at is maybe some match balancing can be made after the teams are together rather than before. Or another top of the head idea : 2) If one side is determined to be better geared, or has more pre-made squads the calculation for battle payout changes, so the disadvantaged team gets a higher reward than usual, to compensate them for the likely loss of more suits. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
deezy dabest Warpoint Sharx 180	Posted - 2014.01.26 12:06:00 - [42] - Quote NK Scout wrote: Make game slightly less grind Increase new player sp to 1 mil or 2 mil Their entire model is pay to grind less and I do not think this will be changing ever. Whatever the starting SP is it will all just go into AR and they will continue to get slaughtered because core skills and suits never got touched ( Good job on ZERO explanation of skills to newbs CCP but hey I guess "Train any skill for a reward" should be enough for them to spend days staring at the skill tree )
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 247	Posted - 2014.01.26 12:10:00 - [43] - Quote NK Scout wrote: hgghyujh wrote: oh and if the sentiment is against that then CCP needs to drastically increase the cost of proto gear, you shouldn't see proto come out every match all match long and yet that is exactly what you are seeing, hell most matches should be proto free. Ugh, I bought 18 proto suits for 1 mil So expensive Cant imagine how scouts feel considering proto suits are the only suits we don't instadie in, yea...... still I would like to see fewer of them, there was a time you really wouldn't see people run more then one proto a match for that little bit of push, but that went out the window in the last couple builds, not sure if its PC, isk refunds, or cheaper proto, but its gotten kinda ridiculous.
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 86	Posted - 2014.01.26 12:10:00 - [44] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: NK Scout wrote: Make game slightly less grind Increase new player sp to 1 mil or 2 mil Their entire model is pay to grind less and I do not think this will be changing ever. Whatever the starting SP is it will all just go into AR and they will continue to get slaughtered because core skills and suits never got touched ( Good job on ZERO explanation of skills to newbs CCP but hey I guess "Train any skill for a reward" should be enough for them to spend days staring at the skill tree ) Its better than nothing, tutorial soon (tm) Also less grind as in less multiplyer, 8x to 7 or 6x, 6x to 5x 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter militia frame, Templar set
Teilka Darkmist 76	Posted - 2014.01.26 12:19:00 - [45] - Quote CCP are still working on getting all the different racial gear into the game. Yes, you can argue that it should have been in at launch and I don't totally disagree. Of course that would have put off the release of the game by another year at least. Whilst I know I would have waited, I have a feeling that a lot of others wouldn't. Then they'd still have the problems of shoring up server stability when a full complement of players were online (something they still haven't solved in EVE 10 years on as the playerbase keeps growing and the technology keeps changing), they'd still have to do balancing, patching, fixing exploits and bugs that they didn't catch in development, alpha or beta (which happens with every game). They'd also have to keep working on adding new content to the game as that's what is expected of a game in the New Eden universe. Plus they'd have to keep dust current with what was going on in EVE. So maybe give the team a bit of a break, I'm pretty sure that they're working as fast as they can as if the game goes under, they'll likely all be out of a a job. Tiered matches may reduce protostomping, but it won't stop tankspam and it won't stop teamwork being more effective than a team each doing their own thing. It will also create teams of people who just stay in the lower tier matches with their skills maxed farming isk. So instead of some matches being protostomps, we'll end up with basic and advance being mostly unplayable due to the teams farming them. The nature of the game means that you will not ever stop one group of people stomping others.When the entire aim of the game is to beat the opposing team and you get rewarded for it, some will go to whatever lengths they can to win. My suggestion to CCP would be take your time so that you get it right, but bring out the rest of the gear, get the player market up and running (this will help more than most people think it will in my opinion) and get the Eve devs to support it by adding infantry gear BPO's and BPC's to Eve so they can start experimenting with production as soon as is practical . Then link the markets and let transfers of isk (and aurum, I have some I'm never going to use in Eve) from Eve to Dust and vice versa and adjust the isk reward of matches so that it relates to the market. Once the PvP game is solid, and the market is stable, then's the time to work on the PvE. Perhaps include in there some turtorial PvE which goes through each aspect of the game for the new players, before they get into the academy to try the PvP, throwing a player straight in to PvP so they have to learn how to play whilst also under fire from other players is somewhat akin to throwing new players into space with just their starter ship and no instruction on how to do anything. Those are just my ideas though. I'm sure that there are plenty of people here on the forums who will disagree. When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
deezy dabest Warpoint Sharx 180	Posted - 2014.01.26 12:24:00 - [46] - Quote NK Scout wrote: Its better than nothing, tutorial soon (tm) Also less grind as in less multiplier, 8x to 7 or 6x, 6x to 5x Less multiplier could help but still threatens the money making side of Dust. The biggest problem right now is the new players being tossed from the academy. I have recently had my desire to yell about this refueled after making alts for peoples recruiter links and listening to what happens with new players as they traverse their first day in New Eden. One minute they are happily shooting and being shot at and very soon after they are either utterly silent, horribly cursing their opponent who just melted them with a duvolle, or just gone. I saw this as well with the 20 or so people I brought to the game a few months after I joined. I challenge you to make an alt and go through 6-8 academy matches making zero points until you have recruited a full squad of eager young dust bunnies and then bring them into our world out side of the academy once they are all close to being booted from the academy anyway. Unless you like listening to frustration the results of this experiment will make you choose whatever causes this in your opinion and warrior up on it as well.
2100 Angels The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 296	Posted - 2014.01.26 13:03:00 - [47] - Quote lets all hold hands and play ring around the rosie, then make each other floral necklaces and braid each others hair! No, new eden is supposed to be a harsh place. leave the protosuits where they are, no restrictive matches. If i'm happy to have my wallet drain money like a sieve I should be entitled to do so.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1657	Posted - 2014.01.26 13:08:00 - [48] - Quote Disagree 1) Just because you are in proto doesn't meam you will own face 2) These people spent time and Isk to afford use of the suit, their is no reason why they can't. 3) If we had a performance based matchmaking system on public matches it wouldn't be a problem. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 4192	Posted - 2014.01.26 13:09:00 - [49] - Quote Yes and no. Yes: improved NPE is good, more players like myself not running proto to counter other proto players. No: PC isn't constant, making the areas where you can proto minimal, this punishes those who worked their asses off to get their gear, especially those who did so as closed beta vets. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 4 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1657	Posted - 2014.01.26 13:10:00 - [50] - Quote 2100 Angels wrote: lets all hold hands and play ring around the rosie, then make each other floral necklaces and braid each others hair! No, new eden is supposed to be a harsh place. leave the protosuits where they are, no restrictive matches. If i'm happy to have my wallet drain money like a sieve I should be entitled to do so. Public matches are in High Sec, dumbo, the only harshness you get in High Sec is subterfuge. CONCORD makes sure of that. That said maybe we should have low, null sec matches as well, null sec would be unrestricted, no matchamking, EvE sponsored landgrabs! Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Leonid Tybalt Dark Knightz Corp. 197	Posted - 2014.01.26 13:20:00 - [51] - Quote Disagree. Proto suits are expensive. You risk losing a lot more isk whenever you die in one than you do running a std or adv suit, and the std and adv suits are still perfectly capable of killing the proto suit. An expensive suit should be more useful and deadly in it's own than a less expensive suit. Otherwise, whats the point of paying more if they're pretty much equal?
R F Gyro Clones 4u 1091	Posted - 2014.01.26 13:26:00 - [52] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Although guilty of proto stomping in the past, I have seen the light as it were. Who agrees, who disagrees and why. I disagree. Better matchmaking is all that is required, and would have the benefit that a really good player in a militia suit and a novice in a proto suit can still fight each other. The challenge, of course, is how to implement better matchmaking. My choice would be contract matching, but there are plenty of other ideas out there. RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
Leonid Tybalt Dark Knightz Corp. 197	Posted - 2014.01.26 13:30:00 - [53] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: 2100 Angel"h wrote: lets all hold hands and play ring around the rosie, then make each other floral necklaces and braid each others hair No, new eden is supposed to be a harsh place. leave the protosuits where they are, no restrictive matches. If i'm happy to have my wallet drain money like a sieve I should be entitled to do so. Public matches are in High Sec, dumbo, the only harshness you get in High Sec is subterfuge. CONCORD makes sure of that. That said maybe we should have low, null sec matches as well, null sec would be unrestricted, no matchamking, EvE sponsored landgrabs! The only way I'd agree to this is high sec players are forced to wait longer for matches than players who opt to fight battles in null sec. This because high sec space is supposed to be more "stable" thanks to the prescence of concord and thus spontaneous planetary warfare shouldn't occur more often than spontaneous space battles do. It would also be more in line with "high risk, high reward" since doing missions, ratting or mining in high sec space in eve has always been more time consuming than it is earning the same amount of isk in low sec or null sec space doing the same things. Players who refuse to accept the dangers of running against proto users should never be able to earn as much isk as players who do in the same amount of time, regardless of how many warpoints they might earn in the matches. Hence it would make sense for them to have to wait longer to find matches. Or getting a serious pay dump.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 967	Posted - 2014.01.26 13:32:00 - [54] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I think we have to consider the size of the player base too. We could balance it after matchmaking to allow for the smaller player base. Off the top of my head : 1) Scotty puts the best mix he can together based on queue size, squads etc. If a % of people on each team can run proto then any suit is allowed. If only one team has proto then it lowers the max tier allowed to advanced. What I am getting at is maybe some match balancing can be made after the teams are together rather than before. Or another top of the head idea : 2) If one side is determined to be better geared, or has more pre-made squads the calculation for battle payout changes, so the disadvantaged team gets a higher reward than usual, to compensate them for the likely loss of more suits. 3) Build teams based not on gear or SP but on performance in the last 4 games. I have proto but rarely run it outside of PC, I have many SP but it is in a class that has less effectiveness than the same SP in another class. Look at my last few games kills and WP to decide my skill. Put my in a battle based on that. Automated matchmaking in a sandbox universe with imposed limits. We need difficulty levels in with risk versus reward scenario's the players can choose for them self's. No matter what tools you give a new player to couple month old player, they shouldn't be going up against a player that has been playing for a year, they will always get wrecked. Regardless corporations where supposed to be saving to buy a giant flying warbarge, and then mercenaries in said corporations where to save and buy quarters on the Warbarge. Build trophy rooms, have hang out area's.. Spend time flying it to different places on planets and fighting for it. Then spending time grinding and building infrastructure on the planet districts we conquered. Video of the Old warbarge. PC was supposed to take up a lot of everyone's time. Public matches where only for a ISk and possible SP grind when not participating in what DUST was actually about. RPS: How do you have persistence in a match-based game? CCP Wolfman wrote: Thomas: We have, much like EVE GÇô in fact exactly like EVE! GÇô we have different security levels. We have high security, low security, and nulsec, where anything goes. And thatGÇÖs where weGÇÖre pretty much hands off. When youGÇÖre in highsec we have NPC generated battles, so youGÇÖll always be able to find a battle, youGÇÖre able to grind and get money, but without being exposed to the depth building an infrastructure on the surface of planets, things like that. But then as you play through into the lower levels of security it starts to be about: okay, IGÇÖve got the hang of the game, IGÇÖve got a group of friends, weGÇÖve formed a corporation, and weGÇÖve got backing from some EVE members for the corporation, so weGÇÖre going to hire a war barge, weGÇÖre going to load it up with supplies, and weGÇÖre going to try to attack this location. WeGÇÖre going to get our first foothold on a planet. And that is all scheduled and controlled. Those matches are planned, and the defenders are warned in advance so they have the opportunity to defend. Once you get into that kind of game youGÇÖre making a larger commitment in terms of time to be able to defend your things. And so the more you invest, the more commitment you have to have to protect whatGÇÖs yours. But thereGÇÖs always matches rolling in highsec. From 2011
Kira Halycon Science For Death 10	Posted - 2014.01.26 13:39:00 - [55] - Quote Complex plates, even on advanced suits with many low slots means that snipers are little more than an annoyance, unless the high damage riles are available. Better Matchmaking Better Scotty matchmaking would help, more sifting of suit and skills than we are currently seeing. Better Match Start Sync The other thing that would help is syncing the start of the match - both sides should start within 10 seconds of each other, not 1 minute or more apart. Presently, often you enter a match now to find that the other side has established itself for a minute, already got vehicles and uplinks in and its a losing game from there.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1657	Posted - 2014.01.26 13:57:00 - [56] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: 2100 Angel"h wrote: lets all hold hands and play ring around the rosie, then make each other floral necklaces and braid each others hair No, new eden is supposed to be a harsh place. leave the protosuits where they are, no restrictive matches. If i'm happy to have my wallet drain money like a sieve I should be entitled to do so. Public matches are in High Sec, dumbo, the only harshness you get in High Sec is subterfuge. CONCORD makes sure of that. That said maybe we should have low, null sec matches as well, null sec would be unrestricted, no matchamking, EvE sponsored landgrabs! The only way I'd agree to this is high sec players are forced to wait longer for matches than players who opt to fight battles in null sec. This because high sec space is supposed to be more "stable" thanks to the prescence of concord and thus spontaneous planetary warfare shouldn't occur more often than spontaneous space battles do. It would also be more in line with "high risk, high reward" since doing missions, ratting or mining in high sec space in eve has always been more time consuming than it is earning the same amount of isk in low sec or null sec space doing the same things. Players who refuse to accept the dangers of running against proto users should never be able to earn as much isk as players who do in the same amount of time, regardless of how many warpoints they might earn in the matches. Hence it would make sense for them to have to wait longer to find matches. Or getting a serious pay dump. Well as it stands we conduct Pub matches in high security space with no form of matchmaking at all, so what we do is move that exactly asmit is over to null sec. High sec matchmaking won't mean that you won't ever come across proto suits, but the people wearing those suits will have a similar skill level to you. So you will still likely see all tiers of suits but you will be less likely to have tonnes of useless blueberries against full proto l33t squad, instead blueberries will be matched with blueberries. Then just give a pay and sp rise incentive for null sec pubs and voila, proto groups can do what they want in null sec, new players don't get stomped andmif your having a bad daygo back to high sec space for battles. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2441	Posted - 2014.01.26 19:29:00 - [57] - Quote Cool. I Tech do solemnly declare that I shall go back to running pure proto and that my corp mates must do so as well. I will not take mercy on the blue berries, I shall dispense my wrath with my amarr logi, cal assault and min assault, all at proto, so help me dust. Nuff isk. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
Fire of Prometheus Alpha Response Command 3183	Posted - 2014.01.26 19:33:00 - [58] - Quote As much as I agree, I have no other place to use proto commando atm :/ Of course there's FW, but there I have no way of breaking even in no match cause everyone pub stomps against amarr Commando 6 // A.R.C Commander // C.E.O of Alpha Response Command A Balac's and a Thale's.....What's on your commando?
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2441	Posted - 2014.01.26 19:34:00 - [59] - Quote And so it was written, on this day of our pwnage 26/1/2014, engraved on the holy chalice that is the forums. Democratically discussed and with great consideration. Fk those bches and farm that sht. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
Beld Errmon The Southern Legion 1265	Posted - 2014.01.26 19:57:00 - [60] - Quote Its not the gear thats stomping ppl its the squads of players that know what they are doing and multiply each others affect on the battlefield, the best players in std gear are still the best players the difference is a handful of HP and a few extra points of damage per bullet. If you want pub matches to be more fun you need to hit CCP up on their match makers distribution of squads, or look at limiting the squads in pub matches.
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2445	Posted - 2014.01.26 20:03:00 - [61] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: Its not the gear thats stomping ppl its the squads of players that know what they are doing and multiply each others affect on the battlefield, the best players in std gear are still the best players the difference is a handful of HP and a few extra points of damage per bullet. If you want pub matches to be more fun you need to hit CCP up on their match makers distribution of squads, or look at limiting the squads in pub matches. Iv sworn an oath to go back to proto stomping, fk em. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 989	Posted - 2014.01.26 20:28:00 - [62] - Quote Better matchmaking is the answer. Removing Proto from Pubs won't have. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 265	Posted - 2014.01.26 20:31:00 - [63] - Quote you could just take out a basic minmitar scout with a kr-17 breach shotgun, a complex damage mod, and double dampeners, RE's, and reap the tears Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
CYRAX SERVIUS Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 629	Posted - 2014.01.26 20:35:00 - [64] - Quote Rizlax Yazzax wrote: I'm on the line when it comes to proto in pubs. There's only one protosuit I use for pubs and that's so I can swarm effectively but I have plenty of fits that use complex extenders/reps and my logi always uses proto rep tool, even on the cheap fit. So while it is annoying being stomped by full proto squads, where is the cut-off point between stomping and just being more effective? If I use a proto suit and weapon but ADV mods is that stomping? How about an ADV suit and weapon but proto mods? Or a proto weapon on a militia suit? Sure a full proto set-up is the definitive stomp fit, but at what point does it stop being a good fit and become a stomper? And also other points such as matchmaking/lack of game types that make stomping so easy etc etc. When it becomes a problem is the same pricks every day over and over again, that's the problem. CEO Whiskey squad leader Invictus Maneo~"I Remain Unvanquished"~
CYRAX SERVIUS Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 629	Posted - 2014.01.26 20:39:00 - [65] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Although guilty of proto stomping in the past, I have seen the light as it were. Who agrees, who disagrees and why. I think that more sense and impact on gameplay have separating KB/M players from DS3 ones. CCP already took steps(as always) on balancing gameplay on pub matches by introducing LP shop with give players early access to proto stuff. Getting proto gear with lvl3 skills is not the same as true proto with lvl5 skills, core skills make the suit and weapons most effective. CEO Whiskey squad leader Invictus Maneo~"I Remain Unvanquished"~
CELTIC TARON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 19	Posted - 2014.01.26 20:46:00 - [66] - Quote If you don't like getting proto stomped then bring out your own proto we earned our gear so we use it. Why else would we use Proto other than because we can afford to do so. As to those getting stomped we all went through it grit your teeth bare through it and less QQ more Pew Pew. Eventually you'll be able to afford to run non stop proto yourself. For those that think yay i'm in a cheap suit killing proto's just remember depending on the player and corp they belong to, you are not affecting their wallet. I happen to know of a few people who have isk into the BILLIONS as individual players not corps. PC Tanker AND PROUD! Especially When I Shove A Missile Up Your Arse! Yes Militia need adjusted Long Live Tanks :)
Fire of Prometheus Alpha Response Command 3186	Posted - 2014.01.26 20:54:00 - [67] - Quote CELTIC TARON wrote: If you don't like getting proto stomped then bring out your own proto we earned our gear so we use it. Why else would we use Proto other than because we can afford to do so. As to those getting stomped we all went through it grit your teeth bare through it and less QQ more Pew Pew. Eventually you'll be able to afford to run non stop proto yourself. For those that think yay i'm in a cheap suit killing proto's just remember depending on the player and corp they belong to, you are not affecting their wallet. I happen to know of a few people who have isk into the BILLIONS as individual players not corps. Looks at corp Commando 6 // A.R.C Commander // C.E.O of Alpha Response Command A Balac's and a Thale's.....What's on your commando?
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3968	Posted - 2014.01.26 20:57:00 - [68] - Quote As long as my modules and equipment are still allowed, then sure. But my modules aren't Prototype. They're Complex. Next On To-Do List: Particle Cannons To create a vehicle free environment. There can only be one!
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 91	Posted - 2014.01.26 21:06:00 - [69] - Quote Fire of Prometheus wrote: CELTIC TARON wrote: If you don't like getting proto stomped then bring out your own proto we earned our gear so we use it. Why else would we use Proto other than because we can afford to do so. As to those getting stomped we all went through it grit your teeth bare through it and less QQ more Pew Pew. Eventually you'll be able to afford to run non stop proto yourself. For those that think yay i'm in a cheap suit killing proto's just remember depending on the player and corp they belong to, you are not affecting their wallet. I happen to know of a few people who have isk into the BILLIONS as individual players not corps. Looks at corp the same alliance as, that corp that spams everything in ambush, hmm, they also pay people not to attack them...... 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter militia frame, Templar set
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 91	Posted - 2014.01.26 21:08:00 - [70] - Quote Atiim wrote: As long as my modules and equipment are still allowed, then sure. But my modules aren't Prototype. They're Complex. there can only be one! kills with militia railgun brings out blaster tank 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter militia frame, Templar set
CYRAX SERVIUS Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 632	Posted - 2014.01.26 21:27:00 - [71] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: And so it was written, on this day of our pwnage 26/1/2014, engraved on the holy chalice that is the forums. Democratically discussed and with great consideration. Fk those bches and farm that sht. Using your term, Quality. CEO Whiskey squad leader Invictus Maneo~"I Remain Unvanquished"~
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2454	Posted - 2014.01.26 21:33:00 - [72] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Cool. I Tech do solemnly declare that I shall go back to running pure proto and that my corp mates must do so as well. I will not take mercy on the blue berries, I shall dispense my wrath with my amarr logi, cal assault and min assault, all at proto, so help me dust. Nuff isk. For those that missed it lol. No more guilt, no more mercy or compassion, just butt r@pe. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
Azura Sakura Altyr Initiative 575	Posted - 2014.01.26 21:33:00 - [73] - Quote I'm for a better match making system. I am mainly against proto stomping because of the low players base, new players, and 16 v 16 battles. If this game was like 32v32 or 64v64 or w/e. I would care less about the new players because it will require team work to win battles.
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 92	Posted - 2014.01.26 21:38:00 - [74] - Quote an amar logi gets 1 slot from adv to pro and it gets used for a 2nd rep, with 250k isk you can get 4, not much with nyan spam, scanner spam, grenade spam, CR spam, and other crap i say proto is slightly overpriced for competitiveness against decent players 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter militia frame, Templar set
Azura Sakura Altyr Initiative 575	Posted - 2014.01.26 21:40:00 - [75] - Quote NK Scout wrote: an amar logi gets 1 slot from adv to pro and it gets used for a 2nd rep, with 250k isk you can get 4, not much with nyan spam, scanner spam, grenade spam, CR spam, and other crap i say proto is slightly overpriced for competitiveness against decent players It is more as a stats padding suit than anything in pubs lol
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 346	Posted - 2014.01.26 21:40:00 - [76] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Although guilty of proto stomping in the past, I have seen the light as it were. Who agrees, who disagrees and why. You mean Proto suits or Proto/complex stuff ?
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 94	Posted - 2014.01.26 21:45:00 - [77] - Quote Azura Sakura wrote: NK Scout wrote: an amar logi gets 1 slot from adv to pro and it gets used for a 2nd rep, with 250k isk you can get 4, not much with nyan spam, scanner spam, grenade spam, CR spam, and other crap i say proto is slightly overpriced for competitiveness against decent players It is more as a stats padding suit than anything in pubs lol i tried a imperial pro suit, it only has more reps and a 3rd extender, not much difference for the price increase maybe when i get lvl 5 i can use 3 plates? 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter militia frame, Templar set
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2454	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:01:00 - [78] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Although guilty of proto stomping in the past, I have seen the light as it were. Who agrees, who disagrees and why. You mean Proto suits or Proto/complex stuff ? Proto suits with complex mods and proto weapons. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2454	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:03:00 - [79] - Quote NK Scout wrote: an amar logi gets 1 slot from adv to pro and it gets used for a 2nd rep, with 250k isk you can get 4, not much with nyan spam, scanner spam, grenade spam, CR spam, and other crap i say proto is slightly overpriced for competitiveness against decent players Yeah but more CPU and pg to fit better mods, the amarr most definitely doesn't gain that much but its got the sidearm all the way now instead of just getting it at proto like it used to. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 479	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:05:00 - [80] - Quote So what about those of us who don't do FW, PC? we're just supposed to get screwed out of all the SP and isk we sunk into suits? Let me add it's not the gear that's the problem it's the matchmaking. Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2455	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:07:00 - [81] - Quote Azura Sakura wrote: NK Scout wrote: an amar logi gets 1 slot from adv to pro and it gets used for a 2nd rep, with 250k isk you can get 4, not much with nyan spam, scanner spam, grenade spam, CR spam, and other crap i say proto is slightly overpriced for competitiveness against decent players It is more as a stats padding suit than anything in pubs lol Its a beast for heavy hugging. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2455	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:11:00 - [82] - Quote Henchmen21 wrote: So what about those of us who don't do FW, PC? we're just supposed to get screwed out of all the SP and isk we sunk into suits? Let me add it's not the gear that's the problem it's the matchmaking. They are both factors, run a std fit with std mods and a std weapon etc, play like that for a good while and then switch to proto, you will see. We'd not bother with proto if it didn't give an edge. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
CYRAX SERVIUS Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 637	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:12:00 - [83] - Quote So tech, what proto shall we wear tonight? CEO Whiskey squad leader Invictus Maneo~"I Remain Unvanquished"~
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2455	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:17:00 - [84] - Quote CYRAX SERVIUS wrote: So tech, what proto shall we wear tonight? I'll be running my proto amarr logi with some complex damage mods, 1 complex shield extender, complex plates, proto combat rifle of either variant with all adv equipment. Medic logi - stack hp, injector, triarge hives, rep tool Combat logi - 2 complex damage mods, 1 complex shield, adv scanner, quantum hives and cheeks blush a stable uplink hahahaha, can't quite fit a decent uplink without sacrificing my proto cr. Plates. I'll be running medic mostly though. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3975	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:26:00 - [85] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Proto suits with complex mods and proto weapons. So if we can't use Complex Damage Mods, what are we supposed to do against a tank? Next On To-Do List: Particle Cannons To create a vehicle free environment. There can only be one!
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2455	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:30:00 - [86] - Quote Atiim wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Proto suits with complex mods and proto weapons. So if we can't use Complex Damage Mods, what are we supposed to do against a tank? Ignore it and hang about farming the sht out of reds where the tanks can't go. Or get a sica with a railgun. Or get 3 people with av to blow it up, we do it regularly if we feel like it but tanks can easily be ignored in pubs. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
manboar thunder fist SAM-MIK 23	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:32:00 - [87] - Quote NK Scout wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Although guilty of proto stomping in the past, I have seen the light as it were. Who agrees, who disagrees and why. The differnce between the adv and pro amar logi is minimal Halelujahhhhhhhhhhhh somebody agrees. Read this and be educated 1.8 will shoot my amarr logi in the face with an ion pistol then bury it under a caldari heavy. No, not alive thankfully
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 479	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:35:00 - [88] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Henchmen21 wrote: So what about those of us who don't do FW, PC? we're just supposed to get screwed out of all the SP and isk we sunk into suits? Let me add it's not the gear that's the problem it's the matchmaking. They are both factors, run a std fit with std mods and a std weapon etc, play like that for a good while and then switch to proto, you will see. We'd not bother with proto if it didn't give an edge. My average fits are 40-60k and I run solo, I can do just as well or just as bad in proto. The good or bad depends on what side of the rout I am on. lopsided teams are the single biggest determining factor. Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
kiarbanor S.e.V.e.N. General Tso's Alliance 291	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:36:00 - [89] - Quote Tech, I'm still of the mindset that all CCP needs to do is change the reward system in pub matches. What I mean is that if someone is wearing a Starter Fit and kills a proto, he should get more than 50 points. If someone in proto kills a starter fit, he should get way less than 50 points. Those war points turn into ISK and SP. So, you will actually earn more ISK and more SP if you don't wear proto. I don't think we can have a "militia/standard" only game mode any more because we just don't have a player base big enough. I think this reward system can easily be attached to how much a fitting costs ; this can apply to vehicles, too. Let's say you always get 50% of the value of the fitting in war points. So, if I kill a 300k proto suit, I get 150 WPs. And the lowest you can get is like 20 WPs (if I kill a full BPO fitting that costs nothing). It would change the complexity of pub games. This allows people to proto stomp all they want, but those people getting stomped have an incentive to go after those protos and not hide and Sit in the MCC. I'll be interested what faults people find in this; we've talked about it for a long time in Se\7eN.
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2455	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:37:00 - [90] - Quote Henchmen21 wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Henchmen21 wrote: So what about those of us who don't do FW, PC? we're just supposed to get screwed out of all the SP and isk we sunk into suits? Let me add it's not the gear that's the problem it's the matchmaking. They are both factors, run a std fit with std mods and a std weapon etc, play like that for a good while and then switch to proto, you will see. We'd not bother with proto if it didn't give an edge. My average fits are 40-60k and I run solo, I can do just as well or just as bad in proto. The good or bad depends on what side of the rout I am on. lopsided teams are the single biggest determining factor. Yeah most can bashing newbs and agreed. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 481	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:38:00 - [91] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Atiim wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Proto suits with complex mods and proto weapons. So if we can't use Complex Damage Mods, what are we supposed to do against a tank? Ignore it and hang about farming the sht out of reds where the tanks can't go. Or get a sica with a railgun. Or get 3 people with av to blow it up, we do it regularly if we feel like it but tanks can easily be ignored in pubs. It's not very often tanks can't get to the area of the objectives. Your strategy might be to sit back and lose but some of us like to win. Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2460	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:38:00 - [92] - Quote kiarbanor wrote: Tech, I'm still of the mindset that all CCP needs to do is change the reward system in pub matches. What I mean is that if someone is wearing a Starter Fit and kills a proto, he should get more than 50 points. If someone in proto kills a starter fit, he should get way less than 50 points. Those war points turn into ISK and SP. So, you will actually earn more ISK and more SP if you don't wear proto. I don't think we can have a "militia/standard" only game mode any more because we just don't have a player base big enough. I think this reward system can easily be attached to how much a fitting costs ; this can apply to vehicles, too. Let's say you always get 50% of the value of the fitting in war points. So, if I kill a 300k proto suit, I get 150 WPs. And the lowest you can get is like 20 WPs (if I kill a full BPO fitting that costs nothing). It would change the complexity of pub games. This allows people to proto stomp all they want, but those people getting stomped have an incentive to go after those protos and not hide and Sit in the MCC. I'll be interested what faults people find in this; we've talked about it for a long time in Se\7eN. Fair play. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2460	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:39:00 - [93] - Quote Henchmen21 wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Atiim wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Proto suits with complex mods and proto weapons. So if we can't use Complex Damage Mods, what are we supposed to do against a tank? Ignore it and hang about farming the sht out of reds where the tanks can't go. Or get a sica with a railgun. Or get 3 people with av to blow it up, we do it regularly if we feel like it but tanks can easily be ignored in pubs. It's not very often tanks can't get to the area of the objectives. Your strategy might be to sit back and lose but some of use like to win. Swamp is grinding isk for pc, we don't care too much about winning pubs, just farming. And that's on ccp for giving no alternative, our outlook on pubs is that its just a pub match, meh. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
LJG XX Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 15	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:43:00 - [94] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: CYRAX SERVIUS wrote: So tech, what proto shall we wear tonight? I'll be running my proto amarr logi with some complex damage mods, 1 complex shield extender, complex plates, proto combat rifle of either variant with all adv equipment. Medic logi - stack hp, injector, triarge hives, rep tool Combat logi - 2 complex damage mods, 1 complex shield, adv scanner, quantum hives and cheeks blush a stable uplink hahahaha, can't quite fit a decent uplink without sacrificing my proto cr. Plates. I'll be running medic mostly though. I take it you'll be running medic mate? Do you even dust bro? I didn't think so...
Yeeeuuuupppp KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 48	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:44:00 - [95] - Quote Where else would you use proto if you're not in an active corporation? Carving Hearts in People's Backs, One Day At A Time ~ Nova Knives
LJG XX Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 15	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:45:00 - [96] - Quote Atiim wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Proto suits with complex mods and proto weapons. So if we can't use Complex Damage Mods, what are we supposed to do against a tank? Another tank of course!!! Do you even dust bro? I didn't think so...
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2460	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:45:00 - [97] - Quote LJG XX wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: CYRAX SERVIUS wrote: So tech, what proto shall we wear tonight? I'll be running my proto amarr logi with some complex damage mods, 1 complex shield extender, complex plates, proto combat rifle of either variant with all adv equipment. Medic logi - stack hp, injector, triarge hives, rep tool Combat logi - 2 complex damage mods, 1 complex shield, adv scanner, quantum hives and cheeks blush a stable uplink hahahaha, can't quite fit a decent uplink without sacrificing my proto cr. Plates. I'll be running medic mostly though. I take it you'll be running medic mate? Yeah defo. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2460	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:47:00 - [98] - Quote Yeeeuuuupppp wrote: Where else would you use proto if you're not in an active corporation? You just beat dust, here's a like Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
Sgt Buttscratch 1399	Posted - 2014.01.27 02:13:00 - [99] - Quote anyone who has the SP invested, ISK available and want to use proto can do so. FW is a money sink, PC is a boring a poorly thought out part of the game that consists of people who think they have tactics shouting. Pubs are pubs, bring what you want. Try convincing players to put months and moths into making a beast suit, then telling them they can only use it a few times a week/month...aint happening. CCP needs to create a good match making system. I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
Nirwanda Vaughns 286	Posted - 2014.01.27 02:22:00 - [100] - Quote i can't use tanks or plasma cannons or flaylock pistols so lets ban them too, lets just ban everything which can't be used by at leats one person in a pub match.... or simly fix the ps poor matchmaking for new players and have an almost rookie training options for players where its MLT/STD infantry only ambush setting to allow them to get used to the game without the constant vehicle and proto spam. i've spent the past 13months grinding and skilling into my suits and equipment to use them, disallowing proto just because whiney b**es either cant afford to or not skilled into proto, say so. addmitedly i would like to see options that allows you to go into fixed standards liek an STD/MLT mode, ADV mode and proto only mode it'd make for an interesting game if you know everyone is gonna be using ADV gear and its based purely on ingame SP and player skill Proto and proud!!
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 235	Posted - 2014.01.27 02:35:00 - [101] - Quote I say make Security ratings mean something, most obvious it makes certain levels/meta of equipment illegal for use. Players can limit what space they fight in the battle finder same way they do in FW. Next payout High Sec = Lower pay, Low Sec = Higher Pay, payout can be determine by some formula e.g. NormalPayout(2 - SecurityRating) For those bad at math the above gives normal payouts in the Highest Sec (1.0) and double the payout in the lowest Sec (0.0) If that is not enough NormalPayout(2 - SecurityRating)^2 upto four times the monies.
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2101	Posted - 2014.01.27 02:36:00 - [102] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Although guilty of proto stomping in the past, I have seen the light as it were. Who agrees, who disagrees and why. I disagree Teamwork/Squad work and Player skill of both teams are just as if not more important... I remeber a squad of Synergy guys top the board with all PLCs back in 1.4-1.5ish Matchmaking is junk, stuff needs adjusted so that there are more opportunities for proto gear (Corp Battles, high level PvE, etc) A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1143	Posted - 2014.01.27 02:50:00 - [103] - Quote I don't think they should be disallowed. I think they should be so expensive you'd be crazy to use one.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1143	Posted - 2014.01.27 02:51:00 - [104] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: I say make Security ratings mean something, most obvious it makes certain levels/meta of equipment illegal for use. Players can limit what space they fight in the battle finder same way they do in FW. Next payout High Sec = Lower pay, Low Sec = Higher Pay, payout can be determine by some formula e.g. NormalPayout(2 - SecurityRating) For those bad at math the above gives normal payouts in the Highest Sec (1.0) and double the payout in the lowest Sec (0.0) If that is not enough NormalPayout(2 - SecurityRating)^2 upto four times the monies. I would have no problem disallowing prototype gear in high-sec, if other things are introduced that are only available in low-sec.
Scott Knight Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 23	Posted - 2014.01.27 02:53:00 - [105] - Quote Honestly, I've ran into more of a problem with 3 Tanks than being assaulted by a bunch of proto guys.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1712	Posted - 2014.01.27 03:00:00 - [106] - Quote I am anti-proto stomping, and think pubs are high sec and should work like that. That said, I think matchmaking and the economy brokenness are the bigger issues. Restricting gear might be hard to program as well, so perhaps having a no-squad mode is the way to go. Someone had also suggested a FW type mode where everyone was given a standard fitting based on their faction and that's all they got to run. Sounded interesting. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor! Forum Warrior lv.1
True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 6203	Posted - 2014.01.27 03:16:00 - [107] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: I am anti-proto stomping, and think pubs are high sec and should work like that. That said, I think matchmaking and the economy brokenness are the bigger issues. Restricting gear might be hard to program as well, so perhaps having a no-squad mode is the way to go. Someone had also suggested a FW type mode where everyone was given a standard fitting based on their faction and that's all they got to run. Sounded interesting. Admittedly I can still fly any Tech II ship into high sec whenever I want...... "My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1713	Posted - 2014.01.27 03:20:00 - [108] - Quote True Adamance wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: I am anti-proto stomping, and think pubs are high sec and should work like that. That said, I think matchmaking and the economy brokenness are the bigger issues. Restricting gear might be hard to program as well, so perhaps having a no-squad mode is the way to go. Someone had also suggested a FW type mode where everyone was given a standard fitting based on their faction and that's all they got to run. Sounded interesting. Admittedly I can still fly any Tech II ship into high sec whenever I want...... And If you decide to take out some random noob with it? "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor! Forum Warrior lv.1
True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 6205	Posted - 2014.01.27 03:46:00 - [109] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: True Adamance wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: I am anti-proto stomping, and think pubs are high sec and should work like that. That said, I think matchmaking and the economy brokenness are the bigger issues. Restricting gear might be hard to program as well, so perhaps having a no-squad mode is the way to go. Someone had also suggested a FW type mode where everyone was given a standard fitting based on their faction and that's all they got to run. Sounded interesting. Admittedly I can still fly any Tech II ship into high sec whenever I want...... And If you decide to take out some random noob with it? Hmmm doesn't mean I cant be there.... I wonder how many instances of escaping CONCORD justice there are? However I can do all of the same things in high sec a newbro could do, I am not limited except in terms of capacity to agress....however you talk about a game where our job is to fight we have no highsec. "My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
Bormir1r WarRavens League of Infamy 8	Posted - 2014.01.27 03:50:00 - [110] - Quote Honestly matchmaking should be modified to balance out the better players. Or at least there should be a mode for this type of game.
Jake Bloodworth Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 319	Posted - 2014.01.27 04:32:00 - [111] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Although guilty of proto stomping in the past, I have seen the light as it were. Who agrees, who disagrees and why. Disagree. Your playstyle does not equal other peoples play style. Any fun had within the confines of the allowed game mechanics should not be demonized. I proto stomp... Adv stomp... And bpo stomp. I'm not even near the upper echelon of players. The fact is, if you get your way and they remove proto from pubs, you and your ilk will be crying for squads to be removed next.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1713	Posted - 2014.01.27 04:45:00 - [112] - Quote True Adamance wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: True Adamance wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: I am anti-proto stomping, and think pubs are high sec and should work like that. That said, I think matchmaking and the economy brokenness are the bigger issues. Restricting gear might be hard to program as well, so perhaps having a no-squad mode is the way to go. Someone had also suggested a FW type mode where everyone was given a standard fitting based on their faction and that's all they got to run. Sounded interesting. Admittedly I can still fly any Tech II ship into high sec whenever I want...... And If you decide to take out some random noob with it? Hmmm doesn't mean I cant be there.... I wonder how many instances of escaping CONCORD justice there are? However I can do all of the same things in high sec a newbro could do, I am not limited except in terms of capacity to agress....however you talk about a game where our job is to fight we have no highsec. That may be correct, but what's the point of calling it highsec or the comments Wolfman made (quoted earlier) if not to have an "easier" or protected area for lesser skilled players? Either way, let's say its not really highsec, but in a game without PvE I still would be against pub proto stomping solely for the NPE and player retention (which really is the main reason I am in any context). "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor! Forum Warrior lv.1
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2467	Posted - 2014.01.27 11:53:00 - [113] - Quote Jake Bloodworth wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Although guilty of proto stomping in the past, I have seen the light as it were. Who agrees, who disagrees and why. Disagree. Your playstyle does not equal other peoples play style. Any fun had within the confines of the allowed game mechanics should not be demonized. I proto stomp... Adv stomp... And bpo stomp. I'm not even near the upper echelon of players. The fact is, if you get your way and they remove proto from pubs, you and your ilk will be crying for squads to be removed next. Its not 'my way' though is it? Many want this and if you read the whole thread you'd see that I'm going back to using my proto. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 175	Posted - 2014.01.27 11:59:00 - [114] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Although guilty of proto stomping in the past, I have seen the light as it were. Who agrees, who disagrees and why. Just have a very basic system. [Type A] Normal matches = Free for all , everything allowed everything goes. [Type B] Militia / Standard matches = Just that, militia and standard grade suits, gear and weapons only. [Type C] Advanced / Proto matches = Just what you would expect, advanced and proto gear / suits / weapons only. As for vehicles this would have to be decided. Probably similar restrictions, militia stuff in militia mode, everything else in advanced mode. This is while still keeping the original modes we have now where EVERYTHING goes. Just allowing more customisation of match type really.
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2471	Posted - 2014.01.27 21:00:00 - [115] - Quote Thread TLDR. We want to run proto, fk you new players, thats on ccp not us. The difference between proto and std is minimal, that's why we can totally run std in pc and still own. There needs to be isk gain alternatives. This is new Eden htfu. Academy time needs to be longer. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
Spectre-M The Generals General Tso's Alliance 237	Posted - 2014.02.01 20:52:00 - [116] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Go ahead and ban proto stuff in pubs. Then every 1 will truely invincible in their militia tanks. Actually you make a good point. CCP could balance mlt/adv tanks and av / infantry in pubs, and balance proto assets to those values for FW and PC. They could technically make NPE much more bearable immediately while dividing and conquering balance in a more manageable fashion. I see pubs as high-sec, and this would be a great way to make it a lore based decision seeing as though New Eden has these mechanics already for the same reasons. NPE. Needs to change. PC isk fountains need to be brought in line with the planned economy before it's too late. Amarr Factional Warfare Loyalist Minnmatar in Amarr Armor I am a Wolf in Sheeps Clothing
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 334	Posted - 2014.02.01 21:14:00 - [117] - Quote message from Godin: **** tiers, tiercide
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1711	Posted - 2014.02.01 21:15:00 - [118] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Although guilty of proto stomping in the past, I have seen the light as it were. Who agrees, who disagrees and why. Ok. Here's your first problem: You want to introduce barriers in a game that wants to be a sandbox game. No. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
Rei Shepard The Rainbow Effect 1559	Posted - 2014.02.01 21:26:00 - [119] - Quote CrotchGrab 360 wrote: SNIP ADV scrambler rifle makes people in protos 180 and run away. SNIP /Glares at C360, does it now :), i am playing again with it, got bored with the RR and CR Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!" "Accuracy"
Arirana Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 424	Posted - 2014.02.01 21:33:00 - [120] - Quote Playerbase is not big enough for more game modes and segregation. CCP needs to add PVE, and turn academy into PVE. At least this way the people that get slaughtered in pubs have another option that doesn't make every pub match take 10 minutes to form because the of the 100 or so people queuing for pubs at all times are spread out between 12 different game modes. Also PVE will make those new players stick around, won't really take away from pubs too much, so long as we make pubs more worthwhile when grinding sp or isk. I have an ego?! O.O The scales have fallen from my eyes.

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