DUST Search - Disallowing proto in pubs?

kiarbanor wrote:

Tech, I'm still of the mindset that all CCP needs to do is change the reward system in pub matches. What I mean is that if someone is wearing a Starter Fit and kills a proto, he should get more than 50 points. If someone in proto kills a starter fit, he should get way less than 50 points.

Those war points turn into ISK and SP. So, you will actually earn more ISK and more SP if you don't wear proto.

I don't think we can have a "militia/standard" only game mode any more because we just don't have a player base big enough.

I think this reward system can easily be attached to how much a fitting costs ; this can apply to vehicles, too. Let's say you always get 50% of the value of the fitting in war points. So, if I kill a 300k proto suit, I get 150 WPs. And the lowest you can get is like 20 WPs (if I kill a full BPO fitting that costs nothing). It would change the complexity of pub games.

This allows people to proto stomp all they want, but those people getting stomped have an incentive to go after those protos and not hide and Sit in the MCC.

I'll be interested what faults people find in this; we've talked about it for a long time in Se\7eN.

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Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 481	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:38:00 - [91] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Atiim wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Proto suits with complex mods and proto weapons. So if we can't use Complex Damage Mods, what are we supposed to do against a tank? Ignore it and hang about farming the sht out of reds where the tanks can't go. Or get a sica with a railgun. Or get 3 people with av to blow it up, we do it regularly if we feel like it but tanks can easily be ignored in pubs. It's not very often tanks can't get to the area of the objectives. Your strategy might be to sit back and lose but some of us like to win. Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2460	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:38:00 - [92] - Quote kiarbanor wrote: Tech, I'm still of the mindset that all CCP needs to do is change the reward system in pub matches. What I mean is that if someone is wearing a Starter Fit and kills a proto, he should get more than 50 points. If someone in proto kills a starter fit, he should get way less than 50 points. Those war points turn into ISK and SP. So, you will actually earn more ISK and more SP if you don't wear proto. I don't think we can have a "militia/standard" only game mode any more because we just don't have a player base big enough. I think this reward system can easily be attached to how much a fitting costs ; this can apply to vehicles, too. Let's say you always get 50% of the value of the fitting in war points. So, if I kill a 300k proto suit, I get 150 WPs. And the lowest you can get is like 20 WPs (if I kill a full BPO fitting that costs nothing). It would change the complexity of pub games. This allows people to proto stomp all they want, but those people getting stomped have an incentive to go after those protos and not hide and Sit in the MCC. I'll be interested what faults people find in this; we've talked about it for a long time in Se\7eN. Fair play. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2460	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:39:00 - [93] - Quote Henchmen21 wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Atiim wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Proto suits with complex mods and proto weapons. So if we can't use Complex Damage Mods, what are we supposed to do against a tank? Ignore it and hang about farming the sht out of reds where the tanks can't go. Or get a sica with a railgun. Or get 3 people with av to blow it up, we do it regularly if we feel like it but tanks can easily be ignored in pubs. It's not very often tanks can't get to the area of the objectives. Your strategy might be to sit back and lose but some of use like to win. Swamp is grinding isk for pc, we don't care too much about winning pubs, just farming. And that's on ccp for giving no alternative, our outlook on pubs is that its just a pub match, meh. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
LJG XX Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 15	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:43:00 - [94] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: CYRAX SERVIUS wrote: So tech, what proto shall we wear tonight? I'll be running my proto amarr logi with some complex damage mods, 1 complex shield extender, complex plates, proto combat rifle of either variant with all adv equipment. Medic logi - stack hp, injector, triarge hives, rep tool Combat logi - 2 complex damage mods, 1 complex shield, adv scanner, quantum hives and cheeks blush a stable uplink hahahaha, can't quite fit a decent uplink without sacrificing my proto cr. Plates. I'll be running medic mostly though. I take it you'll be running medic mate? Do you even dust bro? I didn't think so...
Yeeeuuuupppp KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 48	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:44:00 - [95] - Quote Where else would you use proto if you're not in an active corporation? Carving Hearts in People's Backs, One Day At A Time ~ Nova Knives
LJG XX Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 15	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:45:00 - [96] - Quote Atiim wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Proto suits with complex mods and proto weapons. So if we can't use Complex Damage Mods, what are we supposed to do against a tank? Another tank of course!!! Do you even dust bro? I didn't think so...
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2460	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:45:00 - [97] - Quote LJG XX wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: CYRAX SERVIUS wrote: So tech, what proto shall we wear tonight? I'll be running my proto amarr logi with some complex damage mods, 1 complex shield extender, complex plates, proto combat rifle of either variant with all adv equipment. Medic logi - stack hp, injector, triarge hives, rep tool Combat logi - 2 complex damage mods, 1 complex shield, adv scanner, quantum hives and cheeks blush a stable uplink hahahaha, can't quite fit a decent uplink without sacrificing my proto cr. Plates. I'll be running medic mostly though. I take it you'll be running medic mate? Yeah defo. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2460	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:47:00 - [98] - Quote Yeeeuuuupppp wrote: Where else would you use proto if you're not in an active corporation? You just beat dust, here's a like Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
Sgt Buttscratch 1399	Posted - 2014.01.27 02:13:00 - [99] - Quote anyone who has the SP invested, ISK available and want to use proto can do so. FW is a money sink, PC is a boring a poorly thought out part of the game that consists of people who think they have tactics shouting. Pubs are pubs, bring what you want. Try convincing players to put months and moths into making a beast suit, then telling them they can only use it a few times a week/month...aint happening. CCP needs to create a good match making system. I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
Nirwanda Vaughns 286	Posted - 2014.01.27 02:22:00 - [100] - Quote i can't use tanks or plasma cannons or flaylock pistols so lets ban them too, lets just ban everything which can't be used by at leats one person in a pub match.... or simly fix the ps poor matchmaking for new players and have an almost rookie training options for players where its MLT/STD infantry only ambush setting to allow them to get used to the game without the constant vehicle and proto spam. i've spent the past 13months grinding and skilling into my suits and equipment to use them, disallowing proto just because whiney b**es either cant afford to or not skilled into proto, say so. addmitedly i would like to see options that allows you to go into fixed standards liek an STD/MLT mode, ADV mode and proto only mode it'd make for an interesting game if you know everyone is gonna be using ADV gear and its based purely on ingame SP and player skill Proto and proud!!

Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 235	Posted - 2014.01.27 02:35:00 - [101] - Quote I say make Security ratings mean something, most obvious it makes certain levels/meta of equipment illegal for use. Players can limit what space they fight in the battle finder same way they do in FW. Next payout High Sec = Lower pay, Low Sec = Higher Pay, payout can be determine by some formula e.g. NormalPayout(2 - SecurityRating) For those bad at math the above gives normal payouts in the Highest Sec (1.0) and double the payout in the lowest Sec (0.0) If that is not enough NormalPayout(2 - SecurityRating)^2 upto four times the monies.
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2101	Posted - 2014.01.27 02:36:00 - [102] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Although guilty of proto stomping in the past, I have seen the light as it were. Who agrees, who disagrees and why. I disagree Teamwork/Squad work and Player skill of both teams are just as if not more important... I remeber a squad of Synergy guys top the board with all PLCs back in 1.4-1.5ish Matchmaking is junk, stuff needs adjusted so that there are more opportunities for proto gear (Corp Battles, high level PvE, etc) A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1143	Posted - 2014.01.27 02:50:00 - [103] - Quote I don't think they should be disallowed. I think they should be so expensive you'd be crazy to use one.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1143	Posted - 2014.01.27 02:51:00 - [104] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: I say make Security ratings mean something, most obvious it makes certain levels/meta of equipment illegal for use. Players can limit what space they fight in the battle finder same way they do in FW. Next payout High Sec = Lower pay, Low Sec = Higher Pay, payout can be determine by some formula e.g. NormalPayout(2 - SecurityRating) For those bad at math the above gives normal payouts in the Highest Sec (1.0) and double the payout in the lowest Sec (0.0) If that is not enough NormalPayout(2 - SecurityRating)^2 upto four times the monies. I would have no problem disallowing prototype gear in high-sec, if other things are introduced that are only available in low-sec.
Scott Knight Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 23	Posted - 2014.01.27 02:53:00 - [105] - Quote Honestly, I've ran into more of a problem with 3 Tanks than being assaulted by a bunch of proto guys.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1712	Posted - 2014.01.27 03:00:00 - [106] - Quote I am anti-proto stomping, and think pubs are high sec and should work like that. That said, I think matchmaking and the economy brokenness are the bigger issues. Restricting gear might be hard to program as well, so perhaps having a no-squad mode is the way to go. Someone had also suggested a FW type mode where everyone was given a standard fitting based on their faction and that's all they got to run. Sounded interesting. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor! Forum Warrior lv.1
True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 6203	Posted - 2014.01.27 03:16:00 - [107] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: I am anti-proto stomping, and think pubs are high sec and should work like that. That said, I think matchmaking and the economy brokenness are the bigger issues. Restricting gear might be hard to program as well, so perhaps having a no-squad mode is the way to go. Someone had also suggested a FW type mode where everyone was given a standard fitting based on their faction and that's all they got to run. Sounded interesting. Admittedly I can still fly any Tech II ship into high sec whenever I want...... "My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1713	Posted - 2014.01.27 03:20:00 - [108] - Quote True Adamance wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: I am anti-proto stomping, and think pubs are high sec and should work like that. That said, I think matchmaking and the economy brokenness are the bigger issues. Restricting gear might be hard to program as well, so perhaps having a no-squad mode is the way to go. Someone had also suggested a FW type mode where everyone was given a standard fitting based on their faction and that's all they got to run. Sounded interesting. Admittedly I can still fly any Tech II ship into high sec whenever I want...... And If you decide to take out some random noob with it? "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor! Forum Warrior lv.1
True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 6205	Posted - 2014.01.27 03:46:00 - [109] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: True Adamance wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: I am anti-proto stomping, and think pubs are high sec and should work like that. That said, I think matchmaking and the economy brokenness are the bigger issues. Restricting gear might be hard to program as well, so perhaps having a no-squad mode is the way to go. Someone had also suggested a FW type mode where everyone was given a standard fitting based on their faction and that's all they got to run. Sounded interesting. Admittedly I can still fly any Tech II ship into high sec whenever I want...... And If you decide to take out some random noob with it? Hmmm doesn't mean I cant be there.... I wonder how many instances of escaping CONCORD justice there are? However I can do all of the same things in high sec a newbro could do, I am not limited except in terms of capacity to agress....however you talk about a game where our job is to fight we have no highsec. "My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
Bormir1r WarRavens League of Infamy 8	Posted - 2014.01.27 03:50:00 - [110] - Quote Honestly matchmaking should be modified to balance out the better players. Or at least there should be a mode for this type of game.

Jake Bloodworth Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 319	Posted - 2014.01.27 04:32:00 - [111] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Although guilty of proto stomping in the past, I have seen the light as it were. Who agrees, who disagrees and why. Disagree. Your playstyle does not equal other peoples play style. Any fun had within the confines of the allowed game mechanics should not be demonized. I proto stomp... Adv stomp... And bpo stomp. I'm not even near the upper echelon of players. The fact is, if you get your way and they remove proto from pubs, you and your ilk will be crying for squads to be removed next.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1713	Posted - 2014.01.27 04:45:00 - [112] - Quote True Adamance wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: True Adamance wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: I am anti-proto stomping, and think pubs are high sec and should work like that. That said, I think matchmaking and the economy brokenness are the bigger issues. Restricting gear might be hard to program as well, so perhaps having a no-squad mode is the way to go. Someone had also suggested a FW type mode where everyone was given a standard fitting based on their faction and that's all they got to run. Sounded interesting. Admittedly I can still fly any Tech II ship into high sec whenever I want...... And If you decide to take out some random noob with it? Hmmm doesn't mean I cant be there.... I wonder how many instances of escaping CONCORD justice there are? However I can do all of the same things in high sec a newbro could do, I am not limited except in terms of capacity to agress....however you talk about a game where our job is to fight we have no highsec. That may be correct, but what's the point of calling it highsec or the comments Wolfman made (quoted earlier) if not to have an "easier" or protected area for lesser skilled players? Either way, let's say its not really highsec, but in a game without PvE I still would be against pub proto stomping solely for the NPE and player retention (which really is the main reason I am in any context). "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor! Forum Warrior lv.1
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2467	Posted - 2014.01.27 11:53:00 - [113] - Quote Jake Bloodworth wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Although guilty of proto stomping in the past, I have seen the light as it were. Who agrees, who disagrees and why. Disagree. Your playstyle does not equal other peoples play style. Any fun had within the confines of the allowed game mechanics should not be demonized. I proto stomp... Adv stomp... And bpo stomp. I'm not even near the upper echelon of players. The fact is, if you get your way and they remove proto from pubs, you and your ilk will be crying for squads to be removed next. Its not 'my way' though is it? Many want this and if you read the whole thread you'd see that I'm going back to using my proto. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 175	Posted - 2014.01.27 11:59:00 - [114] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Although guilty of proto stomping in the past, I have seen the light as it were. Who agrees, who disagrees and why. Just have a very basic system. [Type A] Normal matches = Free for all , everything allowed everything goes. [Type B] Militia / Standard matches = Just that, militia and standard grade suits, gear and weapons only. [Type C] Advanced / Proto matches = Just what you would expect, advanced and proto gear / suits / weapons only. As for vehicles this would have to be decided. Probably similar restrictions, militia stuff in militia mode, everything else in advanced mode. This is while still keeping the original modes we have now where EVERYTHING goes. Just allowing more customisation of match type really.
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2471	Posted - 2014.01.27 21:00:00 - [115] - Quote Thread TLDR. We want to run proto, fk you new players, thats on ccp not us. The difference between proto and std is minimal, that's why we can totally run std in pc and still own. There needs to be isk gain alternatives. This is new Eden htfu. Academy time needs to be longer. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
Spectre-M The Generals General Tso's Alliance 237	Posted - 2014.02.01 20:52:00 - [116] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Go ahead and ban proto stuff in pubs. Then every 1 will truely invincible in their militia tanks. Actually you make a good point. CCP could balance mlt/adv tanks and av / infantry in pubs, and balance proto assets to those values for FW and PC. They could technically make NPE much more bearable immediately while dividing and conquering balance in a more manageable fashion. I see pubs as high-sec, and this would be a great way to make it a lore based decision seeing as though New Eden has these mechanics already for the same reasons. NPE. Needs to change. PC isk fountains need to be brought in line with the planned economy before it's too late. Amarr Factional Warfare Loyalist Minnmatar in Amarr Armor I am a Wolf in Sheeps Clothing
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 334	Posted - 2014.02.01 21:14:00 - [117] - Quote message from Godin: **** tiers, tiercide
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1711	Posted - 2014.02.01 21:15:00 - [118] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Although guilty of proto stomping in the past, I have seen the light as it were. Who agrees, who disagrees and why. Ok. Here's your first problem: You want to introduce barriers in a game that wants to be a sandbox game. No. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
Rei Shepard The Rainbow Effect 1559	Posted - 2014.02.01 21:26:00 - [119] - Quote CrotchGrab 360 wrote: SNIP ADV scrambler rifle makes people in protos 180 and run away. SNIP /Glares at C360, does it now :), i am playing again with it, got bored with the RR and CR Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!" "Accuracy"
Arirana Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 424	Posted - 2014.02.01 21:33:00 - [120] - Quote Playerbase is not big enough for more game modes and segregation. CCP needs to add PVE, and turn academy into PVE. At least this way the people that get slaughtered in pubs have another option that doesn't make every pub match take 10 minutes to form because the of the 100 or so people queuing for pubs at all times are spread out between 12 different game modes. Also PVE will make those new players stick around, won't really take away from pubs too much, so long as we make pubs more worthwhile when grinding sp or isk. I have an ego?! O.O The scales have fallen from my eyes.



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