DUST Search - To The Pilots Fearing The Caldari Sentinels

m twiggz wrote:

Atiim wrote:

If I were you, I'd be even more scared of the Minmatar Commando than the Caldari Sentinel.

Here's a bit of theory crafting:

The Minmatar Commando has a +2% bonus to explosive weapons per level, giving a total of 10% extra damage at level 5 (Which is a free Complex Damage Modifier).

3 Complex Damage Mods will grant a total of 26.38% extra damage, plus the extra 10% from the bonus you receive, and an additional 15% extra damage you receive from Proficiency Level V.

That's a grand total of 51.38% additional damage.

Now keep in mind that Swarm Launchers have a +20% damage increased towards armored vehicles, making it a grand total of 71.38% additional damage.

Along with this, the Swarm Launcher AI almost always targets the weak spot of HAVs, which I assume gives a 20% damage boost as well.

That's a whopping 91.38% damage boost towards armored vehicles, and a 71.38% damage boost towards shielded vehicles.

So from my calculations:

2,526HP of damage per volley towards armored vehicles.

2,262HP of damage per volley towards shielded vehicles.

Why else should you be afraid you ask? A Commando has 2 Light Weapon slots and high base HP, meaning a Minmatar Commando user can (and should) be carrying a Swarm Launcher AT ALL TIMES., while not requiring support from a squad for ammo like the Sentinels, as Commando drop-suits also have an equipment slot; and without sacrificing it's Anti-Infantry abilities.

Thought 1.6 was bad? At least then people actually had to go to a Supply Depot.

((This assumes that the Minmatar Commando will have at least 3 high slots at PRO, and the damage mod's stacking penalties were calculated using this tool here.))

Don't trust CCPs math. They have a lot of hidden numbers in those equations. We figured this out with profile dampening and scanners. The numbers don't always add up properly. Prime example is damage modifiers. Even if you account for the stacking penalty put one round into someone that should do X amount of damage based on CCPs math and it doesn't always end up X amount of damage but sometimes Y or Z.

If your numbers are right (highly doubt they are, not due to your fallacy but to CCP) then that would be an extreme AV suit, even with only two damage modifiers.

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Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3700	Posted - 2014.01.20 05:55:00 - [1] - Quote Atiim wrote: If I were you, I'd be even more scared of the Minmatar Commando than the Caldari Sentinel. Here's a bit of theory crafting: The Minmatar Commando has a +2% bonus to explosive weapons per level, giving a total of 10% extra damage at level 5 (Which is a free Complex Damage Modifier). 3 Complex Damage Mods will grant a total of 26.38% extra damage, plus the extra 10% from the bonus you receive, and an additional 15% extra damage you receive from Proficiency Level V. That's a grand total of 51.38% additional damage. Now keep in mind that Swarm Launchers have a +20% damage increased towards armored vehicles, making it a grand total of 71.38% additional damage. Along with this, the Swarm Launcher AI almost always targets the weak spot of HAVs, which I assume gives a 20% damage boost as well. That's a whopping 91.38% damage boost towards armored vehicles, and a 71.38% damage boost towards shielded vehicles. So from my calculations: 2,526HP of damage per volley towards armored vehicles. 2,262HP of damage per volley towards shielded vehicles. Why else should you be afraid you ask? A Commando has 2 Light Weapon slots and high base HP, meaning a Minmatar Commando user can (and should) be carrying a Swarm Launcher AT ALL TIMES., while not requiring support from a squad for ammo like the Sentinels, as Commando drop-suits also have an equipment slot; and without sacrificing it's Anti-Infantry abilities. Thought 1.6 was bad? At least then people actually had to go to a Supply Depot. ((This assumes that the Minmatar Commando will have at least 3 high slots at PRO, and the damage mod's stacking penalties were calculated using this tool here.)) Kill 1 and 7 more come right back. Makes you wonder if tankers are like zombies. Although, that would explain a lot.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5530	Posted - 2014.01.20 06:01:00 - [2] - Quote Minmatar Commando has only two high slots at proto, but besides that this is a fair concern for pilots. Also I find it ridiculous that the Minmatar Commando is getting a bonus towards a Caldari weapon. They really should rework it so the racial bonus is "2% [race] light weapon damage per level." This would also benefit the Gallente Commando, who currently aren't getting a bonus to the plasma shotgun or plasma cannon. Of course, this would also mean the Caldari Commando would get the bonus towards swarm launchers, and they get 3 high slots at proto. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 631	Posted - 2014.01.20 06:01:00 - [3] - Quote Shield mofo. Dropship Specialist Kills- Incubus: 4; Pythons: 1; Other DS: 28 Gêå1; Tanks: 27 Gêå2 1/1
CRISIS BATTLESUIT The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 22	Posted - 2014.01.20 06:03:00 - [4] - Quote Atiim wrote: Atiim wrote: If I were you, I'd be even more scared of the Minmatar Commando than the Caldari Sentinel. Here's a bit of theory crafting: The Minmatar Commando has a +2% bonus to explosive weapons per level, giving a total of 10% extra damage at level 5 (Which is a free Complex Damage Modifier). 3 Complex Damage Mods will grant a total of 26.38% extra damage, plus the extra 10% from the bonus you receive, and an additional 15% extra damage you receive from Proficiency Level V. That's a grand total of 51.38% additional damage. Now keep in mind that Swarm Launchers have a +20% damage increased towards armored vehicles, making it a grand total of 71.38% additional damage. Along with this, the Swarm Launcher AI almost always targets the weak spot of HAVs, which I assume gives a 20% damage boost as well. That's a whopping 91.38% damage boost towards armored vehicles, and a 71.38% damage boost towards shielded vehicles. So from my calculations: 2,526HP of damage per volley towards armored vehicles. 2,262HP of damage per volley towards shielded vehicles. Why else should you be afraid you ask? A Commando has 2 Light Weapon slots and high base HP, meaning a Minmatar Commando user can (and should) be carrying a Swarm Launcher AT ALL TIMES., while not requiring support from a squad for ammo like the Sentinels, as Commando drop-suits also have an equipment slot; and without sacrificing it's Anti-Infantry abilities. Thought 1.6 was bad? At least then people actually had to go to a Supply Depot. ((This assumes that the Minmatar Commando will have at least 3 high slots at PRO, and the damage mod's stacking penalties were calculated using this tool here.)) Nice number crunching though I think you have one fatal flaw in you're idea, the swarms are Caldari so for you're plan to work you will need to use a Caldari suit. Though perhaps you are right because its explosive damage...
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5530	Posted - 2014.01.20 06:05:00 - [5] - Quote CRISIS BATTLESUIT wrote: Nice number crunching though I think you have one fatal flaw in you're idea, the swarms are Caldari so for you're plan to work you will need to use a Caldari suit. Though perhaps you are right because its explosive damage... While the swarm launchers are indeed Caldari, they are classified as explosives and Minmatar commandos get the bonus to explosives. That is why I stated the racial bonuses need to be changed to "2% [race] light weapon damage per level" ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1618	Posted - 2014.01.20 06:11:00 - [6] - Quote As a vehicle guy, I fully support this. I would rather see the Heavy Frame and all of its variants become the king of AV, rather than nerf vehicles back down to where mere medium and light frames terrorize us constantly 1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 2203	Posted - 2014.01.20 06:30:00 - [7] - Quote Dual Swarm Launchers with mods and proficiency. Still worse than Forge Guns. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 4363	Posted - 2014.01.20 09:58:00 - [8] - Quote you calculated your percentages wrong, you haven't accounted for the fact that you have to subtract the previous percentage from 100%before adding the new percentage. so your probably capping out around a 50-60% damage boost, not 90%. Lv 4 forum warrior Bringer of Bacon Knight of AMV's
steadyhand amarr Bragian Order Amarr Empire 2168	Posted - 2014.01.20 10:34:00 - [9] - Quote Failed to account for stacking penalties i would say a 50% if not less as everyone agrees damage mods need looking at "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day 740	Posted - 2014.01.20 10:39:00 - [10] - Quote I hate swarm launchers.. and mass drivers Yet I love the idea of a mincommando "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"

Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1053	Posted - 2014.01.20 10:56:00 - [11] - Quote I dont get why minmatar gets a bonus to missiles, but caldari dont. :( I want a caldari commando with swarms and RR.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 480	Posted - 2014.01.20 11:04:00 - [12] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: I dont get why minmatar gets a bonus to missiles, but caldari dont. :( I want a caldari commando with swarms and RR. They don't get a bonus to missiles but to explosives (and swarms are rated as explosives). They get this bonus becasue of the MD wich is an explosive weapon as well. (I wonder if this will count to grenades and RE's as well)
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5556	Posted - 2014.01.20 11:09:00 - [13] - Quote Oh, did anyone already mention that this fails to account that complex damage mods will no longer be 10% bonuses? ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 131	Posted - 2014.01.20 11:26:00 - [14] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Oh, did anyone already mention that this fails to account that complex damage mods will no longer be 10% bonuses? Who is hitting the pipe hard? Seriously.. I see them talking about it but I always though there is no way they could be serious. Then again.. the nerfed the living bejezus out of the Forge gun without even saying a CCP sponsored word about it. Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1. Original ROF needs to return!
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 536	Posted - 2014.01.20 11:37:00 - [15] - Quote Swarms hitting a weak spot is not common place, you're lucky if even 1 hits a weakspot so it's probably best to remove that from any calculations. I'd still fear the Caldari Heavy more, forge guns can reliably hit weak spots so you can add that to the calculations for their damage.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 4369	Posted - 2014.01.20 11:39:00 - [16] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: Swarms hitting a weak spot is not common place, you're lucky if even 1 hits a weakspot so it's probably best to remove that from any calculations. I'd still fear the Caldari Heavy more, forge guns can reliably hit weak spots so you can add that to the calculations for their damage. unless your a drop ship, where its rarer for something to not hit a weakspot. Lv 4 forum warrior Bringer of Bacon Knight of AMV's
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1616	Posted - 2014.01.20 11:45:00 - [17] - Quote Atiim wrote: Atiim wrote: If I were you, I'd be even more scared of the Minmatar Commando than the Caldari Sentinel. Here's a bit of theory crafting: The Minmatar Commando has a +2% bonus to explosive weapons per level, giving a total of 10% extra damage at level 5 (Which is a free Complex Damage Modifier). 3 Complex Damage Mods will grant a total of 26.38% extra damage, plus the extra 10% from the bonus you receive, and an additional 15% extra damage you receive from Proficiency Level V. That's a grand total of 51.38% additional damage. Now keep in mind that Swarm Launchers have a +20% damage increased towards armored vehicles, making it a grand total of 71.38% additional damage. Along with this, the Swarm Launcher AI almost always targets the weak spot of HAVs, which I assume gives a 20% damage boost as well. That's a whopping 91.38% damage boost towards armored vehicles, and a 71.38% damage boost towards shielded vehicles. So from my calculations: 2,526HP of damage per volley towards armored vehicles. 2,262HP of damage per volley towards shielded vehicles. Why else should you be afraid you ask? A Commando has 2 Light Weapon slots and high base HP, meaning a Minmatar Commando user can (and should) be carrying a Swarm Launcher AT ALL TIMES., while not requiring support from a squad for ammo like the Sentinels, as Commando drop-suits also have an equipment slot; and without sacrificing it's Anti-Infantry abilities. Thought 1.6 was bad? At least then people actually had to go to a Supply Depot. ((This assumes that the Minmatar Commando will have at least 3 high slots at PRO, and the damage mod's stacking penalties were calculated using this tool here.)) I'll squad up with you in gallante commando and a plasma cannon. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
m twiggz Pradox One Proficiency V. 243	Posted - 2014.01.20 11:52:00 - [18] - Quote Atiim wrote: Atiim wrote: If I were you, I'd be even more scared of the Minmatar Commando than the Caldari Sentinel. Here's a bit of theory crafting: The Minmatar Commando has a +2% bonus to explosive weapons per level, giving a total of 10% extra damage at level 5 (Which is a free Complex Damage Modifier). 3 Complex Damage Mods will grant a total of 26.38% extra damage, plus the extra 10% from the bonus you receive, and an additional 15% extra damage you receive from Proficiency Level V. That's a grand total of 51.38% additional damage. Now keep in mind that Swarm Launchers have a +20% damage increased towards armored vehicles, making it a grand total of 71.38% additional damage. Along with this, the Swarm Launcher AI almost always targets the weak spot of HAVs, which I assume gives a 20% damage boost as well. That's a whopping 91.38% damage boost towards armored vehicles, and a 71.38% damage boost towards shielded vehicles. So from my calculations: 2,526HP of damage per volley towards armored vehicles. 2,262HP of damage per volley towards shielded vehicles. Why else should you be afraid you ask? A Commando has 2 Light Weapon slots and high base HP, meaning a Minmatar Commando user can (and should) be carrying a Swarm Launcher AT ALL TIMES., while not requiring support from a squad for ammo like the Sentinels, as Commando drop-suits also have an equipment slot; and without sacrificing it's Anti-Infantry abilities. Thought 1.6 was bad? At least then people actually had to go to a Supply Depot. ((This assumes that the Minmatar Commando will have at least 3 high slots at PRO, and the damage mod's stacking penalties were calculated using this tool here.)) Don't trust CCPs math. They have a lot of hidden numbers in those equations. We figured this out with profile dampening and scanners. The numbers don't always add up properly. Prime example is damage modifiers. Even if you account for the stacking penalty put one round into someone that should do X amount of damage based on CCPs math and it doesn't always end up X amount of damage but sometimes Y or Z. If your numbers are right (highly doubt they are, not due to your fallacy but to CCP) then that would be an extreme AV suit, even with only two damage modifiers.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 2096	Posted - 2014.01.20 11:52:00 - [19] - Quote Dropships have other resistance profiles then regular vehicles. Swarm launchers deal only 59% of their damage vs dropships regardless if it is shield or armor. Get your facts right or dont even bother trying to make stuff up. And the swarms never target weakspots, they travel the shortest distance between you and the target and thats it. Or why do you think why pilots cry about forgeguns? Cause they can tank a proto swarmer forever but a forgegun applies 100% of its damage to it. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 4369	Posted - 2014.01.20 11:59:00 - [20] - Quote m twiggz wrote: Atiim wrote: Atiim wrote: If I were you, I'd be even more scared of the Minmatar Commando than the Caldari Sentinel. Here's a bit of theory crafting: The Minmatar Commando has a +2% bonus to explosive weapons per level, giving a total of 10% extra damage at level 5 (Which is a free Complex Damage Modifier). 3 Complex Damage Mods will grant a total of 26.38% extra damage, plus the extra 10% from the bonus you receive, and an additional 15% extra damage you receive from Proficiency Level V. That's a grand total of 51.38% additional damage. Now keep in mind that Swarm Launchers have a +20% damage increased towards armored vehicles, making it a grand total of 71.38% additional damage. Along with this, the Swarm Launcher AI almost always targets the weak spot of HAVs, which I assume gives a 20% damage boost as well. That's a whopping 91.38% damage boost towards armored vehicles, and a 71.38% damage boost towards shielded vehicles. So from my calculations: 2,526HP of damage per volley towards armored vehicles. 2,262HP of damage per volley towards shielded vehicles. Why else should you be afraid you ask? A Commando has 2 Light Weapon slots and high base HP, meaning a Minmatar Commando user can (and should) be carrying a Swarm Launcher AT ALL TIMES., while not requiring support from a squad for ammo like the Sentinels, as Commando drop-suits also have an equipment slot; and without sacrificing it's Anti-Infantry abilities. Thought 1.6 was bad? At least then people actually had to go to a Supply Depot. ((This assumes that the Minmatar Commando will have at least 3 high slots at PRO, and the damage mod's stacking penalties were calculated using this tool here.)) Don't trust CCPs math. They have a lot of hidden numbers in those equations. We figured this out with profile dampening and scanners. The numbers don't always add up properly. Prime example is damage modifiers. Even if you account for the stacking penalty put one round into someone that should do X amount of damage based on CCPs math and it doesn't always end up X amount of damage but sometimes Y or Z. If your numbers are right (highly doubt they are, not due to your fallacy but to CCP) then that would be an extreme AV suit, even with only two damage modifiers. atiim's biggest mistake is that he just added the percentages together, rather than subtracting the previous total from 100% then calculating the percentage of that and adding that to the total, don't know about any others in there though as far as i know those are the only two things you have to take into account. Lv 4 forum warrior Bringer of Bacon Knight of AMV's

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3712	Posted - 2014.01.20 16:50:00 - [21] - Quote CRISIS BATTLESUIT wrote: Nice number crunching though I think you have one fatal flaw in you're idea, the swarms are Caldari so for you're plan to work you will need to use a Caldari suit. Though perhaps you are right because its explosive damage... Nah, Swarm Launchers are classified as an Explosive weapon, which would align into the Minmatar Commando's bonus. Though my math is slightly flawed because the MinCommando has 2 High Slots at PRO, not 3. I'll redo my calculations... Be afraid pilots... Be very afraid. Your time is running out.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12367	Posted - 2014.01.20 16:59:00 - [22] - Quote I am shure when if ever they get around adding a minmatar rocket launcher the caldari one will go back to a kinetic killer. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3712	Posted - 2014.01.20 17:02:00 - [23] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Failed to account for stacking penalties i would say a 50% if not less as everyone agrees damage mods need looking at Nope, I used this tool to account for stacking penalties. Also, keep in mind that there is also the 20% bonus towards armor, and the 20% bonus given for hitting a tanks weak spot, which is where the Swarm Launcher AI targets. Be afraid pilots... Be very afraid. Your time is running out.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3712	Posted - 2014.01.20 17:04:00 - [24] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Shield mofo. I still have an additional 64.56% extra damage towards them. Be afraid pilots... Be very afraid. Your time is running out.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1506	Posted - 2014.01.20 17:07:00 - [25] - Quote Math is still wrong though. Base damage * 1.1 (suit bonus) * 1.15 (proficiency) * approx 1.196 (two damage mods) * 1.2 (damage to armor) = around 81.5% more damage to armor. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers!
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 4375	Posted - 2014.01.20 19:53:00 - [26] - Quote actually i think both of you are calculating your maths wrong because i ended up with a 50.24% increase against Armour. you guys are remembering that you have to subtract the previous total percentage from 100% then take the percentage off that, so if you add a 15% modifier onto a 10% modifier you get a total of 23.5% because you subtract 10% off 100% then add 15% of 90%. this would mean a proto swarm is doing 1983 damage to armour per volley. Lv 4 forum warrior Bringer of Bacon Knight of AMV's
Aizen Intiki Hell's Gate Inc League of Infamy 716	Posted - 2014.01.20 19:55:00 - [27] - Quote lolo, Atiim, swarms never hit the weak spot. Done the math, and they never hit it. "Hello, world!" lol, sounds like something a whore lover would say Alt of the great Godin I like chocolate ^___^
Aizen Intiki Hell's Gate Inc League of Infamy 716	Posted - 2014.01.20 19:57:00 - [28] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am shure when if ever they get around adding a minmatar rocket launcher the caldari one will go back to a kinetic killer. No, ** rocket launchers. I want a flak cannon to deal with DS's, and future air vehicles. "Hello, world!" lol, sounds like something a whore lover would say Alt of the great Godin I like chocolate ^___**^
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3717	Posted - 2014.01.20 19:57:00 - [29] - Quote Aizen Intiki wrote: lolo, Atiim, swarms never hit the weak spot. Done the math, and they never hit it. Really, because every time I fire at a tank they always hit the back of the tank That is the weak-spot right? What Would Larry Do? He'd probably drink some Quafe... Goes To Refrigerator
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3717	Posted - 2014.01.20 19:58:00 - [30] - Quote Aizen Intiki wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am shure when if ever they get around adding a minmatar rocket launcher the caldari one will go back to a kinetic killer. No, **** rocket launchers. I want a flak cannon to deal with DS's, and future air vehicles. Couldn't we have both? Choices are always best. What Would Larry Do? He'd probably drink some Quafe... Goes To Refrigerator



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