DUST Search - Official CCP Response on TTK (Time To Kill)

Tyjus Vacca wrote:

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

Dusters Blog wrote:

ur making our argument however, u support low TTK for new players but not for u? is killing them 1shoturdead skill based? all suits should have hp totals reasonably close to other suits of the same class. give adv and proto suits advantages in recharge rate, movement speed [make them lighter] repair rate and have them be more efficient [less cpu/pg cost] the same with weapons. would much rather see them also separated in a subtle manner that focuses on skill rather than 'my higher sp makes me god'

the lack of new players and retention of them is proof the hp gap was a terrible idea. as were the 3 minute bunnyhop sessions.

Tiericide and making SP less of an advantage is good.

Making even everyone die so fast the only factor is who pulled the trigger first is bad.

Making it so EVERYONE - new or not - gets enough time to take hits and at least TRY to react is a good thing. At the moment, that isn't happening, and as long as they keep TTK too short, it never will be.

Short TTK is the norm in quality shooters, remember? MAG, BF, COD all have short TTKs. Fans of the genre are used to it, not the other way around.

I'm a scout and have no problem with short TTK. It makes me more careful and makes combat more realistic imo.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1189	Posted - 2014.01.13 09:23:00 - [31] - Quote I only want one thing in 1.8. Make all the infantry things relevant. Is that too much to ask? Tarn chose peace. Tallen chose war. Where is my Gallente sidearm? SoonGäó514
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4871	Posted - 2014.01.13 10:16:00 - [32] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: I only want one thing in 1.8. Make all the infantry things relevant. Is that too much to ask? That's actually quite a challenge with how many factors you must consider in this game. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Scalesdini BlackWater Liquidations INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 234	Posted - 2014.01.13 11:10:00 - [33] - Quote My opinion? Leave the HMG alone FFS. It's finally in an almost decent place (still needs 5m more range). If they buffed the HMG for 5 weeks just to nerf it back down to where it's still outperformed by CR/RR/SCR at 15m, I'm going to quit. Again.
OZAROW Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 1209	Posted - 2014.01.13 11:23:00 - [34] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: CCP Remnant posting like a boss. I'm blue tagging this thread more for the visibility. :) while we're at it shield regulaters caldari assault base recharge delay caldari assault base recharge rate go I'd be more interested in the Caldari Heavy recharge delay. For a heavy that will focus on shields, it will not get the advantage of the ridiculous repair tool healing rate. I'm thinking the only way for the Caldari heavy to be viable is either to have an extremely small shield delay or perhaps even no shield delay all together. Of course, I'd also need to know the recharge rate. Prototype flux nades and a shotgun= buckets of tears SUPER NOVA KNIFE SAIYAN 4
Agrios Endendros Single Serving Friends 105	Posted - 2014.01.13 12:38:00 - [35] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Tallen Ellecon wrote: I just want a huge devblog so I have something to read while I'm not paying attention in class. school's boring and you learn nothing at some point onwards Go away scammer. PSA: jerrmy12 kahoalii is a lowlife scammer. Link 1 Link 2 Link 3 Agrios Endendros Heavy Haruko Endendros AV Logi ~ Canti Endendros Pilot ~ Zero Endendros Support Logi
Michael-J-Fox Richards molon labe. Public Disorder. 15	Posted - 2014.01.13 12:42:00 - [36] - Quote i remember when i was a kid i saw the trailer for the movie "A Time To Kill" in the theaters and thought it was funny, i was yelling "yes they deserved to die! and i hope they burn in hell!" way before that ******* dave chapelle was on the scene http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3jzMyYgPQs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHapAsmvGEU
Griffter D'nan Seraphim Auxiliaries 5	Posted - 2014.01.13 13:03:00 - [37] - Quote There is one unsettling thing, dear CCP Devs, because this means another AV nerf and sniper rifle nerf to point that only thale and charge would be viable option. Please reconsider that, because we have a AV crisis, and serious problem with full-time redline thale snipers (I still want to counter that by using ishukone SR with 3 dmg mode to kill pesky sniper before he move his tanked dropsuit behind deep-redlined cover. And yes, there is no other way to remove that guys from sniper nests.)
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4287	Posted - 2014.01.13 13:11:00 - [38] - Quote Griffter D'nan wrote: There is one unsettling thing, dear CCP Devs, because this means another AV nerf and sniper rifle nerf to point that only thale and charge would be viable option. Please reconsider that, because we have a AV crisis, and serious problem with full-time redline thale snipers (I still want to counter that by using ishukone SR with 3 dmg mode to kill pesky sniper before he move his tanked dropsuit behind deep-redlined cover. And yes, there is no other way to remove that guys from sniper nests.) Because explicitly stating that there WON'T be a blanket nerf on all weapons means they'll be nerfing everything.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 940	Posted - 2014.01.13 13:24:00 - [39] - Quote It's nice to see CCP have a similar idea to proficiency changes to me, I posted here (among other places) weeks ago that we should change proficiency skills to something other than a blanket damage buff, and they are even doing one of my alternatives and making them only increase the damage for that weapon's strength. Not saying they took the idea from me, just saying it's nice to see an idea I was pushing for be implemented despite having serious doubts it was even possible for them to do. +1 to all CCP Devs for the rest of the day! Buff passive scans & fix TTK! My Closed Beta Alts - Overlord Ulath, Overlord Bosse, Overlord Zero
Griffter D'nan Seraphim Auxiliaries 5	Posted - 2014.01.13 13:26:00 - [40] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Because explicitly stating that there WON'T be a blanket nerf on all weapons means they'll be nerfing everything. Well, new dmg mod (like light dmg boost) and new proficiency means that using swarms and AV granades against shields (+20% damage bonus to armour. -20% damage penalty to shields), forge and sniper rifle against armour (+10% damage bonus to shields. -10% damage penalty to armour) will be much harder. Yes, they can make proficiency different for each weapon, but light dmg boost is one for all of them (except forge and grenades of course)

Dirks Macker Enlightened Infantries Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 112	Posted - 2014.01.13 13:39:00 - [41] - Quote It doesn't make sense to address TTK until the eight new suits are introduced and we see what the TTK's are for the new heavies and commandos. Also, we need to see how fast an uncloaked scout can burn down the various suits. Enlightened Indoctrination Blog
Griffter D'nan Seraphim Auxiliaries 5	Posted - 2014.01.13 13:47:00 - [42] - Quote Dirks Macker wrote: It doesn't make sense to address TTK until the eight new suits are introduced and we see what the TTK's are for the new heavies and commandos. Also, we need to see how fast an uncloaked scout can burn down the various suits. +1. And AFIK winmatar assault suit have crazy dmg potential (Sisi stats). Passive armour rep (devs didnt remove that. right?), bonus to dmg mods(!), and many hi-slots. Possible FOTM?
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1032	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:02:00 - [43] - Quote Looks good. Especially if the the proficiency change is implemented, making weapon profiles and tanking type more relevant. Doesnt matter in Dust 514: PC. FW Standing. Tanking Type. Other mods than DMG or HP. Does matter in Dust 514: Rifles.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 940	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:14:00 - [44] - Quote Griffter D'nan wrote: Dirks Macker wrote: It doesn't make sense to address TTK until the eight new suits are introduced and we see what the TTK's are for the new heavies and commandos. Also, we need to see how fast an uncloaked scout can burn down the various suits. +1. And AFIK winmatar assault suit have crazy dmg potential (Sisi stats). Passive armour rep (devs didnt remove that. right?), bonus to dmg mods(!), and many hi-slots. Possible FOTM? Glass cannon fits are hard to make FOTM, so I don't see our Matari suit ever hitting that point unless we manage to gain better armor tanking capabilities, either through higher PG/CPU or through base suit HP buffs. Neither of which I can really see happening. Now.... depending on the base speed of our Commando's & Heavies.... we may see some interesting movements there.... I certainly hope Minmatar Assault does not become FOTM, I really like being one of the few who use them. I specced to proto Minnie Assault in less than 10 minutes of logging into Uprising 1.0 (started DLing it the moment it was up for download lol) and have been proud to have been one of the few Matari assault players from day 1, I don't want a bunch of FOTM chasers flooding our ranks. I'm happy to see we are finally getting some much needed attention in the upcoming build, but being the next FOTM doesn't sound appealing in the slightest. Buff passive scans & fix TTK! My Closed Beta Alts - Overlord Ulath, Overlord Bosse, Overlord Zero
Dusters Blog Galactic News Network 522	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:23:00 - [45] - Quote this may be unpopular but we hope TTK stays as is as we support tiercide. the biggest hurdle for new players is the health gap that ensures they have virtually no chance to kill high SP players [see their kdrs for proof] the game will always struggle if high sp players have 3 and 4 times the health of beginners. the game should be focused on skill and have better gear & skills provide more subtle advantages. we ahve enjoyed seeing kills with militia weapons and we hope it continues. the days of the 4 minute bunnyhop battle are long gone and lets face it, they should be.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 941	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:59:00 - [46] - Quote Dusters Blog wrote: this may be unpopular but we hope TTK stays as is as we support tiercide. the biggest hurdle for new players is the health gap that ensures they have virtually no chance to kill high SP players [see their kdrs for proof] the game will always struggle if high sp players have 3 and 4 times the health of beginners. the game should be focused on skill and have better gear & skills provide more subtle advantages. we ahve enjoyed seeing kills with militia weapons and we hope it continues. the days of the 4 minute bunnyhop battle are long gone and lets face it, they should be. It increases the importance of smart squadplay and tactical maneuvering. It also makes a gunfight an actual gun fight rather than a DPS fight. Teiricide is unnecessary as long as people are willing to learn to play smart instead of trying to run-and-gun. That is what drew many of us closed beta vet's to this game long ago, and it is what we've waited around this long to see again. Tactical play trumps many things right now, but with increased TTK it will trump everything. As it should. BRING ME MY TTK FIX NAO!!! Buff passive scans & fix TTK! My Closed Beta Alts - Overlord Ulath, Overlord Bosse, Overlord Zero
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4297	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:03:00 - [47] - Quote Dusters Blog wrote: this may be unpopular but we hope TTK stays as is as we support tiercide. the biggest hurdle for new players is the health gap that ensures they have virtually no chance to kill high SP players [see their kdrs for proof] the game will always struggle if high sp players have 3 and 4 times the health of beginners. the game should be focused on skill and have better gear & skills provide more subtle advantages. we ahve enjoyed seeing kills with militia weapons and we hope it continues. the days of the 4 minute bunnyhop battle are long gone and lets face it, they should be. Short TTK for the wrong reasons is as bad as having a broken tier system. Tiericide is a good thing, but this is the wrong approach to achieving it.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4914	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:31:00 - [48] - Quote Guys, the Proficiency change isn't necessarily happen, read what he wrote. Dusters Blog wrote: this may be unpopular but we hope TTK stays as is as we support tiercide. the biggest hurdle for new players is the health gap that ensures they have virtually no chance to kill high SP players [see their kdrs for proof] the game will always struggle if high sp players have 3 and 4 times the health of beginners. the game should be focused on skill and have better gear & skills provide more subtle advantages. we ahve enjoyed seeing kills with militia weapons and we hope it continues. the days of the 4 minute bunnyhop battle are long gone and lets face it, they should be. And killing someone instantly just because you got the jump and looked at them is skillful? Low TTK is bad, this is what we have now High TTK is also bad, as you described CCP needs to find the sweet spot, and that sweet spot is definitely higher than the current TTK. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 127	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:52:00 - [49] - Quote I just think how long it takes already to kill a tanked out suit. Tread lightly on ttk. Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1.
Dusters Blog Galactic News Network 526	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:48:00 - [50] - Quote ur making our argument however, u support low TTK for new players but not for u? is killing them 1shoturdead skill based? all suits should have hp totals reasonably close to other suits of the same class. give adv and proto suits advantages in recharge rate, movement speed [make them lighter] repair rate and have them be more efficient [less cpu/pg cost] the same with weapons. would much rather see them also separated in a subtle manner that focuses on skill rather than 'my higher sp makes me god' the lack of new players and retention of them is proof the hp gap was a terrible idea. as were the 3 minute bunnyhop sessions.

Tolen Rosas Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 285	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:50:00 - [51] - Quote Dusters Blog wrote: ur making our argument however, u support low TTK for new players but not for u? is killing them 1shoturdead skill based? all suits should have hp totals reasonably close to other suits of the same class. give adv and proto suits advantages in recharge rate, movement speed [make them lighter] repair rate and have them be more efficient [less cpu/pg cost] the same with weapons. would much rather see them also separated in a subtle manner that focuses on skill rather than 'my higher sp makes me god' the lack of new players and retention of them is proof the hp gap was a terrible idea. as were the 3 minute bunnyhop sessions. ^ this
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 781	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:52:00 - [52] - Quote Dusters Blog wrote: this may be unpopular but we hope TTK stays as is as we support tiercide. the biggest hurdle for new players is the health gap that ensures they have virtually no chance to kill high SP players [see their kdrs for proof] the game will always struggle if high sp players have 3 and 4 times the health of beginners. the game should be focused on skill and have better gear & skills provide more subtle advantages. we ahve enjoyed seeing kills with militia weapons and we hope it continues. the days of the 4 minute bunnyhop battle are long gone and lets face it, they should be. This is the wrong approach to solving the new players being slaughtered, since it cripples the gameplay for everyone else. Why is this a better approach than having an optional second-tier academy called "cadet match" where new players can fight each other until they hit some SP threshold (like 2-5 mill SP or so)? 1.4-1.5 had a TTK that was pretty close to the sweet-spot (maybe slightly too short). The bunny hopping problem was largely addresses in 1.4. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4302	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:01:00 - [53] - Quote Dusters Blog wrote: ur making our argument however, u support low TTK for new players but not for u? is killing them 1shoturdead skill based? all suits should have hp totals reasonably close to other suits of the same class. give adv and proto suits advantages in recharge rate, movement speed [make them lighter] repair rate and have them be more efficient [less cpu/pg cost] the same with weapons. would much rather see them also separated in a subtle manner that focuses on skill rather than 'my higher sp makes me god' the lack of new players and retention of them is proof the hp gap was a terrible idea. as were the 3 minute bunnyhop sessions. Tiericide and making SP less of an advantage is good. Making even everyone die so fast the only factor is who pulled the trigger first is bad. Making it so EVERYONE - new or not - gets enough time to take hits and at least TRY to react is a good thing. At the moment, that isn't happening, and as long as they keep TTK too short, it never will be.
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 627	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:02:00 - [54] - Quote From a logic standpoint how can proficiency affect a weapon doing more damage to armor / shield? - Do you fire it at a different angle Now if Damage mods did this it makes more sense - You could equip a mod to increase certain damage through (insert your physics or space magic) I would still like to see Proficiency only give an efficacy multiplier to damage mods and have the mods tied to individual weapons. So if you are AR proficient you have mods for that weapon. You dont have to train one skill which gives you mods for all weapons. - It also removes the 15% blanket damage that only gets increased once you start adding damage mods on top of that. - It also removes standard/militia weapons having more damage output than advanced/proto weapons (in another players hands) just because you have skilled up in proficiency. In your blind spot
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 781	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:03:00 - [55] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Dusters Blog wrote: ur making our argument however, u support low TTK for new players but not for u? is killing them 1shoturdead skill based? all suits should have hp totals reasonably close to other suits of the same class. give adv and proto suits advantages in recharge rate, movement speed [make them lighter] repair rate and have them be more efficient [less cpu/pg cost] the same with weapons. would much rather see them also separated in a subtle manner that focuses on skill rather than 'my higher sp makes me god' the lack of new players and retention of them is proof the hp gap was a terrible idea. as were the 3 minute bunnyhop sessions. Tiericide and making SP less of an advantage is good. Making even everyone die so fast the only factor is who pulled the trigger first is bad. Making it so EVERYONE - new or not - gets enough time to take hits and at least TRY to react is a good thing. At the moment, that isn't happening, and as long as they keep TTK too short, it never will be. Not to mention it makes the only viable fits, huge buffer tanks + DMG mods. Very little variety in fittings since 1.6. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
Dusters Blog Galactic News Network 526	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:05:00 - [56] - Quote it may be time to accept the fact that dust may never have a large playerbase. even when its fixed its not the game for everyone. the casuals that have unrestricted access to it because its F2P tend to prefer a different flavor of game. this makes any kind of matchmaking moot because then devs have to focus on filling matches rather than separating players by metalevel. unless ur ok with waiting 10m for a game? the playerbase is tiny and the game struggles to retain new players. those are facts. making decisions based on situations that dont exist and what u hope for, rather than reality defies logic.
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 78	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:07:00 - [57] - Quote If you want to stop newberries from getting slaughtered, just increase battle academy to 6m-8m sp, so they have time to get a decent suit before getting sent to the chopping block. Or create a new game mode that only allows starter fits or basic gear. Unofficial D.A.R.K.L.E.G.I.O.N team mascot.
Tyjus Vacca Valor Coalition 74	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:10:00 - [58] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Dusters Blog wrote: ur making our argument however, u support low TTK for new players but not for u? is killing them 1shoturdead skill based? all suits should have hp totals reasonably close to other suits of the same class. give adv and proto suits advantages in recharge rate, movement speed [make them lighter] repair rate and have them be more efficient [less cpu/pg cost] the same with weapons. would much rather see them also separated in a subtle manner that focuses on skill rather than 'my higher sp makes me god' the lack of new players and retention of them is proof the hp gap was a terrible idea. as were the 3 minute bunnyhop sessions. Tiericide and making SP less of an advantage is good. Making even everyone die so fast the only factor is who pulled the trigger first is bad. Making it so EVERYONE - new or not - gets enough time to take hits and at least TRY to react is a good thing. At the moment, that isn't happening, and as long as they keep TTK too short, it never will be. Short TTK is the norm in quality shooters, remember? MAG, BF, COD all have short TTKs. Fans of the genre are used to it, not the other way around. I'm a scout and have no problem with short TTK. It makes me more careful and makes combat more realistic imo.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4303	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:24:00 - [59] - Quote Tyjus Vacca wrote: Short TTK is the norm in quality shooters, remember? MAG, BF, COD all have short TTKs. Fans of the genre are used to it, not the other way around. I'm a scout and have no problem with short TTK. It makes me more careful and makes combat more realistic imo. To be fair, most allegedly "quality" FIRST PERSON shooters have short TTK, but they're modern-day "realistic" shooters, not Sci-Fi shooters. Most sci-fi shooters are third person, and those tend to have significantly higher TTK than the average modern-world FPS. Add in the fact that most of the playerbase for DUST dislike at least two of your examples, and many of us enjoyed games like Transformers: War for Cybertron and Fall of Cybertron with a longer TTK, or Section 8, which also had comparatively long TTk compared with the games you listed, and people who play on XBox will often be seen citing Halo as an example to follow - again with higher TTK. You're also forgetting this is a class-based game. Heavies in quality class-based FPS games like Team Fortress and the Enemy Territory games can take quite a beating before going down, especially when there's a medic around to help. The Last of Us is considered a quality shooter by many people and also has a rather long TTK. It's not a Sci-Fi shooter, but it's not particuarly invested in pretending to be "realistic" either. And as a Scout, you should understand that short TTK doesn't have any impact on your suit anyway - even if they improve TTK for most suits, we're MEANT to be practically made of paper. We will be dying fast anyway. OTHER suits shouldn't be dying as fast as they do.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4922	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:40:00 - [60] - Quote Tyjus Vacca wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Dusters Blog wrote: ur making our argument however, u support low TTK for new players but not for u? is killing them 1shoturdead skill based? all suits should have hp totals reasonably close to other suits of the same class. give adv and proto suits advantages in recharge rate, movement speed [make them lighter] repair rate and have them be more efficient [less cpu/pg cost] the same with weapons. would much rather see them also separated in a subtle manner that focuses on skill rather than 'my higher sp makes me god' the lack of new players and retention of them is proof the hp gap was a terrible idea. as were the 3 minute bunnyhop sessions. Tiericide and making SP less of an advantage is good. Making even everyone die so fast the only factor is who pulled the trigger first is bad. Making it so EVERYONE - new or not - gets enough time to take hits and at least TRY to react is a good thing. At the moment, that isn't happening, and as long as they keep TTK too short, it never will be. Short TTK is the norm in quality shooters, remember? MAG, BF, COD all have short TTKs. Fans of the genre are used to it, not the other way around. I'm a scout and have no problem with short TTK. It makes me more careful and makes combat more realistic imo. Well of course someone who only played scout would want short TTK since you're going own very quickly anyways so might as well take the enemies down quickly too, but in terms of the overall gameplay it is just not good for a game like Dust with a strong emphasis on classes and customization to have a short TTK. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open



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