DUST Search - Official CCP Response on TTK (Time To Kill)

Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:

Aero Yassavi wrote:

Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:

Good news, although I'm not sure about a damage mod nerf. On one hand, it reduces TTK. On the other, if it was less effective people would just brick tank even more than they do now.

We'll see. I'd say clearly right now people are finding 10% damage buff to be more valuable than 72.6 shield (66 from the complex then 10% extra from the skill). A reduction to damage mods is long overdue. Let's just hope they don't take it too far.

A reduction to what, though?

In a straight fight with most weapons shield extenders outperform damage mods. People prefer damage mods because not only does it help them a bit in a straight fight, it also offers a tactical advantage as you become able to gank people quickly.

But if that is reduced significantly then shield extenders become more valuable as the effective protection they can provide, especially with an increased TTK, begins to far outweigh damage mods in a straight fight and the tactical advantage of damage mods disappears against such hardened targets.

Presently, they may seem over the top because of the low TTK. But I am afraid they'll shortly get a massive nerf and the only viable highslot module will be shield extenders.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4837	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:12:00 - [1] - Quote CCP has a bad habit of releasing valuable information that the community would love to hear and provide feedback for, but hiding it within random threads. So I am here to bring it more closely to everyone's attention. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1714234#post1714234 CCP Remnant wrote: Yeah, TTK is definitely something we're looking at improving. The reason we've not hot-fixed a blanket 10% nerf is simply because of the knock -on effects it has (e.g. reducing the damage output of an ammo guzzler like the ACR means it gets a bigger nerf than simply reduced DPS; though some might argue that's not a bad thing). For 1.8 you should see re-adjustment of damage mods, a reduction to weapon damage and possibly alteration of the weapon proficiency skills to only buff damage against shield or armor (in keeping with that weapon's profile) instead of a blanket 3% per level to both shields and armor. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 345	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:15:00 - [2] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: CCP has a bad habit of releasing valuable information that the community would love to hear and provide feedback for, but hiding it within random threads. So I am here to bring it more closely to everyone's attention. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1714234#post1714234 CCP Remnant wrote: Yeah, TTK is definitely something we're looking at improving. The reason we've not hot-fixed a blanket 10% nerf is simply because of the knock -on effects it has (e.g. reducing the damage output of an ammo guzzler like the ACR means it gets a bigger nerf than simply reduced DPS; though some might argue that's not a bad thing). For 1.8 you should see re-adjustment of damage mods, a reduction to weapon damage and possibly alteration of the weapon proficiency skills to only buff damage against shield or armor (in keeping with that weapon's profile) instead of a blanket 3% per level to both shields and armor. mmmmmm, more armor tears...........im both so its a win win I use a tablet so beware of typos

CCP Saberwing C C P C C P Alliance 846	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:17:00 - [3] - Quote CCP Remnant posting like a boss. I'm blue tagging this thread more for the visibility. :) CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian

Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3139	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:17:00 - [4] - Quote In the same thread, he mentions stuff like the "blast damage" resist on Sentinels being any kind of splash damage, and some bits about scouts (an interesting proposal for a Caldari scout EWAR ability). The TTK bit was easily the biggest and most direct information we've had on that point though. Join my cult.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4837	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:18:00 - [5] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: CCP Remnant posting like a boss. I'm blue tagging this thread more for the visibility. :) Love you long time Saberwing ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 345	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:18:00 - [6] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: CCP Remnant posting like a boss. I'm blue tagging this thread more for the visibility. :) while we're at it shield regulaters caldari assault base recharge delay caldari assault base recharge rate go I use a tablet so beware of typos
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 345	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:20:00 - [7] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: CCP Remnant posting like a boss. I'm blue tagging this thread more for the visibility. :) Love you long time Saberwing hey i think that was a stop sign that speed limit was 40 not 50 I use a tablet so beware of typos
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4838	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:22:00 - [8] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: CCP Remnant posting like a boss. I'm blue tagging this thread more for the visibility. :) while we're at it shield regulaters caldari assault base recharge delay caldari assault base recharge rate go I'd be more interested in the Caldari Heavy recharge delay. For a heavy that will focus on shields, it will not get the advantage of the ridiculous repair tool healing rate. I'm thinking the only way for the Caldari heavy to be viable is either to have an extremely small shield delay or perhaps even no shield delay all together. Of course, I'd also need to know the recharge rate. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 345	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:23:00 - [9] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: CCP Remnant posting like a boss. I'm blue tagging this thread more for the visibility. :) while we're at it shield regulaters caldari assault base recharge delay caldari assault base recharge rate go I'd be more interested in the Caldari Heavy recharge delay. For a heavy that will focus on shields, it will not get the advantage of the ridiculous repair tool healing rate. I'm thinking the only way for the Caldari heavy to be viable is either to have an extremely small shield delay or perhaps even no shield delay all together. Of course, I'd also need to know the recharge rate. more interested in existing unbalanced suits/modules as i know caldari heavy will be awsome I use a tablet so beware of typos
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8014	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:24:00 - [10] - Quote Was hoping he'd reply to this before leaving KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I very much appreciate the replies CCP Remnant. I tried to edit my post to add this, but didn't do so fast enough: In regards to scouts. I am also worried about the effects of the new Gallente logi active scanner precision bonus on the scout's ability to be stealthy. I would recommend changing it to a range bonus, or nerfing the base precision of active scanners to compensate. Active scanners are already so prevalent as it is right now, and there is no active counter; passive scan is countered by passive dampening, but active scanner equipment has no equipment to counter it. There are prototype scanner variants that require 4 complex dampeners on a maxed out scout to evade (according to some calculations), and this is without the help of a precision bonus. I fear active scanners may severely hurt the stealth niche. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+

R F Gyro Clones 4u 1040	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:25:00 - [11] - Quote yay! RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1188	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:26:00 - [12] - Quote I just want a huge devblog so I have something to read while I'm not paying attention in class. Tarn chose peace. Tallen chose war. Where is my Gallente sidearm? SoonGäó514
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4838	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:27:00 - [13] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Was hoping he'd reply to this before leaving KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I very much appreciate the replies CCP Remnant. I tried to edit my post to add this, but didn't do so fast enough: In regards to scouts. I am also worried about the effects of the new Gallente logi active scanner precision bonus on the scout's ability to be stealthy. I would recommend changing it to a range bonus, or nerfing the base precision of active scanners to compensate. Active scanners are already so prevalent as it is right now, and there is no active counter; passive scan is countered by passive dampening, but active scanner equipment has no equipment to counter it. There are prototype scanner variants that require 4 complex dampeners on a maxed out scout to evade (according to some calculations), and this is without the help of a precision bonus. I fear active scanners may severely hurt the stealth niche. I agree, but to be fair CCP may have already reduced active scanner precision to compensate, they seem to be changing a lot of other things. That's one of the problems with the Sisi information, we're all basing it on current stats instead of their reworked stats, but again to be fair to us what else are we suppose to base it on? ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 345	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:28:00 - [14] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: I just want a huge devblog so I have something to read while I'm not paying attention in class. school's boring and you learn nothing at some point onwards I use a tablet so beware of typos
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 1507	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:29:00 - [15] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: I agree, but to be fair CCP may have already reduced active scanner precision to compensate, they seem to be changing a lot of other things. That's one of the problems with the Sisi information, we're all basing it on current stats instead of their reworked stats, but again to be fair to us what else are we suppose to base it on? according to the Devs, stats come out this week. We'll see if they follow through.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 7833	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:29:00 - [16] - Quote Good news, although I'm not sure about a damage mod nerf. On one hand, it reduces TTK. On the other, if it was less effective people would just brick tank even more than they do now. Level 7 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution

CCP Saberwing C C P C C P Alliance 846	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:33:00 - [17] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: I agree, but to be fair CCP may have already reduced active scanner precision to compensate, they seem to be changing a lot of other things. That's one of the problems with the Sisi information, we're all basing it on current stats instead of their reworked stats, but again to be fair to us what else are we suppose to base it on? according to the Devs, stats come out this week. We'll see if they follow through. Erm - where was that stated? I'll have to follow up - I'm not sure the stats are anywhere near final yet. The CPM are having a meeting with Remnant / Wolfman tomorrow to discuss. CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian

Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4840	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:34:00 - [18] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Good news, although I'm not sure about a damage mod nerf. On one hand, it reduces TTK. On the other, if it was less effective people would just brick tank even more than they do now. We'll see. I'd say clearly right now people are finding 10% damage buff to be more valuable than 72.6 shield (66 from the complex then 10% extra from the skill). A reduction to damage mods is long overdue. Let's just hope they don't take it too far. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Lucrezia LeGrand 204	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:36:00 - [19] - Quote how come it's so hard to find this information? T-T Anyways, thanks for the heads up. Changes for TTK are going to feel weird, I've just now got used to current settings. o_O ya- hoi hoi
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4840	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:36:00 - [20] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: I agree, but to be fair CCP may have already reduced active scanner precision to compensate, they seem to be changing a lot of other things. That's one of the problems with the Sisi information, we're all basing it on current stats instead of their reworked stats, but again to be fair to us what else are we suppose to base it on? according to the Devs, stats come out this week. We'll see if they follow through. Erm - where was that stated? I'll have to follow up - I'm not sure the stats are anywhere near final yet. The CPM are having a meeting with Remnant / Wolfman tomorrow to discuss. I believe he is referring to this, which does make it seem like we could be getting a dev blog this week. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1699530#post1699530 CCP Remnant wrote: Yeah... gotta love those BSD updates. We were planning to release the bundled up stats for 1.8 changes next week (2nd sprint ends next week) so that we had plenty of time to get feedback from everyone and implement any necessary changes. Too many specific issues to address (otherwise I'd be posting all day and not getting any actual authoring work done) but please keep in mind that everything on SiSi is not final. That doesn't mean that they will change, only that they can. There's plenty of time to provide constructive criticism and for us to act on that feedback. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open

steadyhand amarr Bragian Order Amarr Empire 2138	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:41:00 - [21] - Quote Finally just finally why didnt they post that months ago or last month all we wanted to here looking forword to 1.8 "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1188	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:41:00 - [22] - Quote From what I hear 1.8 is definitely going to be a step in the right direction. Maybe some steps back but more steps forward like 1.7. The only thing I'd like is if they made dual tanking impractical. Having different types of damage mods that worked on low slots. Rate of fire and clip increase mods in the low slots might make shield tanking more practical. Tarn chose peace. Tallen chose war. Where is my Gallente sidearm? SoonGäó514
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1569	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:42:00 - [23] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: CCP has a bad habit of releasing valuable information that the community would love to hear and provide feedback for, but hiding it within random threads. So I am here to bring it more closely to everyone's attention. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1714234#post1714234 CCP Remnant wrote: Yeah, TTK is definitely something we're looking at improving. The reason we've not hot-fixed a blanket 10% nerf is simply because of the knock -on effects it has (e.g. reducing the damage output of an ammo guzzler like the ACR means it gets a bigger nerf than simply reduced DPS; though some might argue that's not a bad thing). For 1.8 you should see re-adjustment of damage mods, a reduction to weapon damage and possibly alteration of the weapon proficiency skills to only buff damage against shield or armor (in keeping with that weapon's profile) instead of a blanket 3% per level to both shields and armor. Hmm that could potentially be an inspired move, potentially. Good spot Yassavi Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 7833	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:45:00 - [24] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Good news, although I'm not sure about a damage mod nerf. On one hand, it reduces TTK. On the other, if it was less effective people would just brick tank even more than they do now. We'll see. I'd say clearly right now people are finding 10% damage buff to be more valuable than 72.6 shield (66 from the complex then 10% extra from the skill). A reduction to damage mods is long overdue. Let's just hope they don't take it too far. A reduction to what, though? In a straight fight with most weapons shield extenders outperform damage mods. People prefer damage mods because not only does it help them a bit in a straight fight, it also offers a tactical advantage as you become able to gank people quickly. But if that is reduced significantly then shield extenders become more valuable as the effective protection they can provide, especially with an increased TTK, begins to far outweigh damage mods in a straight fight and the tactical advantage of damage mods disappears against such hardened targets. Presently, they may seem over the top because of the low TTK. But I am afraid they'll shortly get a massive nerf and the only viable highslot module will be shield extenders. Level 7 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution

CCP Saberwing C C P C C P Alliance 849	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:45:00 - [25] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: I believe he is referring to this, which does make it seem like we could be getting a dev blog this week. Ah, I see! Just to gauge expectations realistically I'd say that this is something more likely to come over the next couple of weeks. We'd like to hold some discussions with the CPM and do some additional tinkering. Also - more work goes in to actually creating and signing off on Dev Blogs than you'd expect! :) CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 1507	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:55:00 - [26] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: I believe he is referring to this, which does make it seem like we could be getting a dev blog this week. Ah, I see! Just to gauge expectations realistically I'd say that this is something more likely to come over the next couple of weeks. We'd like to hold some discussions with the CPM and do some additional tinkering. Also - more work goes in to actually creating and signing off on Dev Blogs than you'd expect! :) A bit more communication would go a long way to reduce the idiotic levels of speculation.
Piraten Hovnoret molon labe. Public Disorder. 225	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:56:00 - [27] - Quote I am just happy that you are doing something about the TTK. I am for once looking forward to the changes. Have one question to the devs (CCP) Are you guys looking into the AR burst and tac? As I understand they got nerfed to damage/clip/range back in the days. That nerf feels kind of out of date with the CR and the RR as it is now! Regards War never changes
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3139	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:57:00 - [28] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Good news, although I'm not sure about a damage mod nerf. On one hand, it reduces TTK. On the other, if it was less effective people would just brick tank even more than they do now. We'll see. I'd say clearly right now people are finding 10% damage buff to be more valuable than 72.6 shield (66 from the complex then 10% extra from the skill). A reduction to damage mods is long overdue. Let's just hope they don't take it too far. A reduction to what, though? In a straight fight with most weapons shield extenders outperform damage mods. People prefer damage mods because not only does it help them a bit in a straight fight, it also offers a tactical advantage as you become able to gank people quickly. But if that is reduced significantly then shield extenders become more valuable as the effective protection they can provide, especially with an increased TTK, begins to far outweigh damage mods in a straight fight and the tactical advantage of damage mods disappears against such hardened targets. Presently, they may seem over the top because of the low TTK. But I am afraid they'll shortly get a massive nerf and the only viable highslot module will be shield extenders. Shields do have great tactical advantages, but they're less evident with TTK so short - that's quite true. We've been under the short TTK hammer since.... 1.4 though? If they're only adjusting damage, and aim magnetism, etc. are staying the same - this could work. I've kinda assumed as they work around these things that measures like the larger nerf to Scout speed since Chromosome, or the AA being added are to help compensate for latency and engine issues. It was observed that even without damage mods, something like a MLT AR (any auto gun really) could tear someone apart quite quickly. The effect was greater on the high end with mod stacking. So, I guess this attempts to address both points while leaving AA in place for network issues? I'm happy to see TTK addressed in any fashion, but this is possibly a tripartite hit: Weapon Damage Reduced Damage Mods Adjusted Proficiency Limited to Shields/Armor (possible) That's a fair number of things to be adjusting at the same time. They might want to hold off on modifying profiency, though I like the idea of making the relative weapon strengths more useful. Join my cult.
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 781	Posted - 2014.01.13 09:13:00 - [29] - Quote Best news I've read in a long time. Let's hope they focus primarily on nerfing damage to the racial assault rifles and the SMG that got the huge TTK buff with the hit detection changes in 1.6. I expect further refinement will be necessary over the coming months, but it's great to hear CCP has listened to our feedback and is planning on addressing the problem. I also like the idea of emphasizing the damage to either shields or armor. That makes for more interesting tactics. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4849	Posted - 2014.01.13 09:16:00 - [30] - Quote Also CCP Remnant stated the following just awhile ago https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1714401#post1714401 CCP Remnant wrote: I like the idea of a 5% reduction of CPU/PG of all light weapons and sidearms per level a lot. So even further TTK reduction, though this skill swap would be much better than the 5% ROF bonus that not many people seem to like. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open



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