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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Garrett Blacknova
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Posted - 2014.01.13 13:11:00 -
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Griffter D'nan wrote:There is one unsettling thing, dear CCP Devs, because this means *another* AV nerf and sniper rifle nerf to point that only thale and charge would be viable option. Please reconsider that, because we have a AV crisis, and serious problem with full-time redline thale snipers (I still want to counter that by using ishukone SR with 3 dmg mode to kill pesky sniper before he move his tanked dropsuit behind deep-redlined cover. And yes, there is no other way to remove that guys from sniper nests.) Because explicitly stating that there WON'T be a blanket nerf on all weapons means they'll be nerfing everything. |
Garrett Blacknova
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Posted - 2014.01.13 15:03:00 -
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Dusters Blog wrote:this may be unpopular but we hope TTK stays as is as we support tiercide. the biggest hurdle for new players is the health gap that ensures they have virtually no chance to kill high SP players [see their kdrs for proof]
the game will always struggle if high sp players have 3 and 4 times the health of beginners. the game should be focused on skill and have better gear & skills provide more subtle advantages. we ahve enjoyed seeing kills with militia weapons and we hope it continues. the days of the 4 minute bunnyhop battle are long gone and lets face it, they should be. Short TTK for the wrong reasons is as bad as having a broken tier system.
Tiericide is a good thing, but this is the wrong approach to achieving it. |
Garrett Blacknova
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Posted - 2014.01.13 17:01:00 -
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Dusters Blog wrote:ur making our argument however, u support low TTK for new players but not for u? is killing them 1shoturdead skill based? all suits should have hp totals reasonably close to other suits of the same class. give adv and proto suits advantages in recharge rate, movement speed [make them lighter] repair rate and have them be more efficient [less cpu/pg cost] the same with weapons. would much rather see them also separated in a subtle manner that focuses on skill rather than 'my higher sp makes me god'
the lack of new players and retention of them is proof the hp gap was a terrible idea. as were the 3 minute bunnyhop sessions. Tiericide and making SP less of an advantage is good.
Making even everyone die so fast the only factor is who pulled the trigger first is bad.
Making it so EVERYONE - new or not - gets enough time to take hits and at least TRY to react is a good thing. At the moment, that isn't happening, and as long as they keep TTK too short, it never will be. |
Garrett Blacknova
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Posted - 2014.01.13 17:24:00 -
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Tyjus Vacca wrote:Short TTK is the norm in quality shooters, remember? MAG, BF, COD all have short TTKs. Fans of the genre are used to it, not the other way around.
I'm a scout and have no problem with short TTK. It makes me more careful and makes combat more realistic imo. To be fair, most allegedly "quality" FIRST PERSON shooters have short TTK, but they're modern-day "realistic" shooters, not Sci-Fi shooters. Most sci-fi shooters are third person, and those tend to have significantly higher TTK than the average modern-world FPS.
Add in the fact that most of the playerbase for DUST dislike at least two of your examples, and many of us enjoyed games like Transformers: War for Cybertron and Fall of Cybertron with a longer TTK, or Section 8, which also had comparatively long TTk compared with the games you listed, and people who play on XBox will often be seen citing Halo as an example to follow - again with higher TTK.
You're also forgetting this is a class-based game. Heavies in quality class-based FPS games like Team Fortress and the Enemy Territory games can take quite a beating before going down, especially when there's a medic around to help.
The Last of Us is considered a quality shooter by many people and also has a rather long TTK. It's not a Sci-Fi shooter, but it's not particuarly invested in pretending to be "realistic" either.
And as a Scout, you should understand that short TTK doesn't have any impact on your suit anyway - even if they improve TTK for most suits, we're MEANT to be practically made of paper. We will be dying fast anyway. OTHER suits shouldn't be dying as fast as they do. |
Garrett Blacknova
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Posted - 2014.01.13 22:39:00 -
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Cosgar wrote:Can someone articulately explain why longer TTK is supposedly bad without trying to drag new players into the argument for leverage? Core gameplay and new player experience may be the most neglected things in Dust, but they're two completely different things and should be treated as such. Saying that the current TTK is better for new players is pretty ignorant when everything other than extenders plates (and arguably repair modules) are pretty much a waste of SP. That -10% recharge delay on a militia shield regulator is pretty useless and barely noticeable when you have max skill on a complex. Damage profiles don't matter when you can just stack damage mods on a ScR to deal with a Gallente suit like you had a combat or rail rifle. These are game balancing issues that indirectly affect NPE but shouldn't be brought up in the same sentence. Having TTK too short - like it is now - is bad because of several factors:
1. It reduces suit variety because stacking tanking mods doesn't provide realistic benefits because even with them, you die faster than you can turn around when flanked or caught from behind.
2. It makes the game too heavily luck and/or twitch based rather than being tactical and skill-based as it has been in many previous builds.
3. It reduces the importance of teamwork because a single AR mag can take out half a team, and having 2 people shoot a target makes so little difference you may as well find your own fight somewhere else.
On the other hand, long TTK like we used to have in DUST can also be bad for many reasons:
1. Part of the reason DUST's long TTK was a problem was - as acknowledged by the devs - a matter of poor hit detection. People weren't dying fast, but it wasn't because they were durable, it was because shots which SHOULD be hitting were passing through their victims or bouncing off their shields for no damage.
2. If TTK is too long, then mistakes aren't punished severely enough, because giving a player too much time to recover when flanked is just as bad as not giving them enough time to react. Getting the drop on an opponent - even if it's a matter of luck - should give you an edge.
3. Even with all the fancy sci-fi tech we're playing with to make ourselves invulnerable, the weapons are highly advanced too, and should be dealing significant damage even to our ultra-futuristic armour and shields. With TTK too long, it will feel like we're firing modern weapons at sci-fi soldiers, or peashooters at guys in kevlar armour. It's just not fun when you don't see any evidence that you're hurting the target.
4. The longer the TTK, the more likely it is that another player will turn the corner, see a nearly dead enemy, and shoot twice to steal your kill.
I know you said not to address this point, but if there are significant differences in health levels as you progress from Militia to Prototype, longer TTK will mean that this difference is more pronounced. Shortening TTK is a way to reduce the impact of these advantages. Really, though, the best method of tiericide is to actually reduce the advantage instead of using short TTK to simulate a reduced advantage. As I said previously, tiericide is good. Using overly-short TTK as a form of tiericide is the wrong approach. |
Garrett Blacknova
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Posted - 2014.01.14 13:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:[quote=Garrett Blacknova]Add damage multipliers when you attack someone's flank and rear. Problem solved. Basing TTK on builds before 1.4-1.5 only clutters up the issue because broken game mechanics, in this case hit detection complicate things. Hit detection is (arguably) fixed so you need to reevaluate from the point it was fixed. I'm not saying pre-1.4 TTK was good.
I'm saying it was higher than we have now but in a bad way (long TTK for wrong reasons is bad, remember?).
I'm also saying that the current TTK is too short and should be lengthened.
Current TTK is based on pre-hit detection fix stats, that's the problem. Weapons need to be re-evaluated and so far, that hasn't really happened. CCP have acknowledged that TTK isn't where they want it, and said they plan to work on that. I just hope they do it right. |
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