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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4449
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Posted - 2013.12.06 17:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
I just went to play my Caldari Assault to see what's all the buzz is about.
Besides going 28/1 when I'm half asleep, I also noticed something I never noticed before.
How much armor slows me down!
It might seem on paper tiny, but I definitely feel a pretty huge difference.
It just feels more mobile, I can do better maneuvering and toy with the enemy better (like I like to do).
And I'm not even using complex plates, only two enhanced.
I also didn't have the problem of "oh they are hacking an objective 200m from here... Do I really need to run that? My team will probably get that by the time I'm there".
Especially a problem in PC when points flip flop a lot. (Went 2/0 because I couldn't get to points fast enough to battle)
I suggest you guys go in a full armor suit with two enhanced plates at least, play 10 matches, and then get back to your shield tank suit.
Trust me, you will feel the difference.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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Ivy Zalinto
Bobbit's Hangmen
106
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 17:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
I actually try and stay away from anything that gives my scout a speed penalty. Its either ferroscale plating or reactive armor for the addition of the armor repper on my low slot. Generally the reactive.
Dedicated scout.
Player bodyguard
Pistol supremacy.
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calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F
Public Disorder.
1434
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 17:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
shields have always been about mobility and armor and defensively posting up.
theirs raelly no problem with the speed of caldari shield fits, but without that ability to dodge, it's hard to be useful.
the speed is why i usually snipe in my caldari fit, I like to be mobile and move to where i'm needed, heavy fits are far to stationary for my liking.
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Cyrius Li-Moody
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
1991
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Posted - 2013.12.06 17:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
I notice a difference between one plate on my Min Assault and a ferroscale. The movement speed is more troublesome than the sprint in my opinion. When you have low HP you need to channel you're inner Fred Astaire and dance your way to victory. With added plates you greatly hinder your ability to neo dodge bullets.
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4449
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Posted - 2013.12.06 17:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:I notice a difference between one plate on my Min Assault and a ferroscale. The movement speed is more troublesome than the sprint in my opinion. When you have low HP you need to channel you're inner Fred Astaire and dance your way to victory. With added plates you greatly hinder your ability to neo dodge bullets.
Pfft, I just call in an LAV and GTFO 
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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dent 308
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2044
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 17:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ferroscale or getout
mass driver haiku
blam blam blam blam blam blam load
ahhahahahah
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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
1489
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 17:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
I usually deploy in a Scout and end up using anything/everything up to a Plated Heavy during a match.
Turn speed is the worst part of the Armor gimp.
It's like playing with 4 or 5 different sensitivity settings over the course of 10 minutes.
I understand the reasoning, but it really sucks.
(Yes, I should probably just use one Frame type per game. But, I also shouldnt feel like I have to cover every role and objective, because of slow transitioning, camping, useless bluetards.)
Cheeseburgers.
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
485
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Posted - 2013.12.06 17:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Two enhanced armor plates and three enhanced ferroscale plates give you more armor (407 HP) than 5x complex shield extenders do shields (363 HP), with almost no movement penalty (-.05 m/s walking and -.08 m/s sprint), and do so at 45% the CPU cost and 60% the PG cost. Add external rep and you are as fast and more quickly repped than a shield tanker. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4450
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 17:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Two enhanced armor plates and three enhanced ferroscale plates give you more armor (407 HP) than 5x complex shield extenders do shields (363 HP), with almost no movement penalty (-.05 m/s walking and -.08 m/s sprint), and do so at 45% the CPU cost and 60% the PG cost. Add external rep and you are as fast and more quickly repped than a shield tanker.
EXTERNAL rep.
My Caldari has a delay of 2 seconds, and then I have a rep as strong as the old rep tools.
Also, Ferroscale plates are extremely heavy on CPU/PG.
In general that's a **** fit, don't rely on logis too much, they can die and then you're **** for luck.
You might also want to consider that Gallente assaults have 4 slots, not 5.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
485
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 18:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:Two enhanced armor plates and three enhanced ferroscale plates give you more armor (407 HP) than 5x complex shield extenders do shields (363 HP), with almost no movement penalty (-.05 m/s walking and -.08 m/s sprint), and do so at 45% the CPU cost and 60% the PG cost. Add external rep and you are as fast and more quickly repped than a shield tanker. EXTERNAL rep. My Caldari has a delay of 2 seconds, and then I have a rep as strong as the old rep tools. Also, Ferroscale plates are extremely heavy on CPU/PG. In general that's a **** fit, don't rely on logis too much, they can die and then you're **** for luck. You might also want to consider that Gallente assaults have 4 slots, not 5.
And Cal Assaults have 4 highs, not 5. I was doing it mainly as a comparison for logis since it's relevant to me.
But my point still stands. You're saying the shield suits get a speed advantage over armor suits, because armor slows you down. But I'm showing that you can get more buffer, no movement penalty, and less CPU/PG usage if you use armor in this way. Use Wiyrkomi Triage Hives and you get delay-free self-rep better than any shield suit.
Not to mention if you draw the attention of logis, you can have multiple beams locked onto you and be pretty much invincible to anything but cores, REs, forge guns, or vehicle hit and runs.
Enhanced ferroscales use 7 more CPU and 1 more PG than enhanced armor plates.
You need to get better logis in your squad, or better yet, a squad of only damage/armor logis, each with a repair tool. It's eye-opening how OP that can be. |
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4454
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Posted - 2013.12.06 18:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:Two enhanced armor plates and three enhanced ferroscale plates give you more armor (407 HP) than 5x complex shield extenders do shields (363 HP), with almost no movement penalty (-.05 m/s walking and -.08 m/s sprint), and do so at 45% the CPU cost and 60% the PG cost. Add external rep and you are as fast and more quickly repped than a shield tanker. EXTERNAL rep. My Caldari has a delay of 2 seconds, and then I have a rep as strong as the old rep tools. Also, Ferroscale plates are extremely heavy on CPU/PG. In general that's a **** fit, don't rely on logis too much, they can die and then you're **** for luck. You might also want to consider that Gallente assaults have 4 slots, not 5. And Cal Assaults have 4 highs, not 5. I was doing it mainly as a comparison for logis since it's relevant to me. But my point still stands. You're saying the shield suits get a speed advantage over armor suits, because armor slows you down. But I'm showing that you can get more buffer, no movement penalty, and less CPU/PG usage if you use armor in this way. Use Wiyrkomi Triage Hives and you get delay-free self-rep better than any shield suit. Not to mention if you draw the attention of logis, you can have multiple beams locked onto you and be pretty much invincible to anything but cores, REs, forge guns, or vehicle hit and runs. Enhanced ferroscales use 7 more CPU and 1 more PG than enhanced armor plates. You need to get better logis in your squad, or better yet, a squad of only damage/armor logis, each with a repair tool. It's eye-opening how OP that can be.
You do understand Logistics suits are the god suit and assaults can't get even close to the same stats?
You also have a built in 5hp/s rep.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1184
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 18:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Now try stacking complex plates on a proto ak.0, I get happy if I even break 7 meters/sec and i'd have to use a kin cat to do that:-)
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
2843
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Posted - 2013.12.06 18:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
Problem is with improved AA/HD how fast you can strafe don't matter much anymore.
sucks.
Sinboto - The True Blood Minja
Forum Warrior level 2
STB-Infantry (Demolition)
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4455
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 18:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sinboto Simmons wrote:Problem is with improved AA/HD how fast you can strafe don't matter much anymore.
sucks.
It's not even about strafing.
It's about toying with the enemy.
Going to cover for a split second, making them expect you to stay there, and then INSTANTLY get back and pound them.
Or jumping out of cover right into their face.
Small things like that, that my Gallente assault does poorly.
The Caldari also gets from place to place better, so there's that.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
486
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 18:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:
You do understand Logistics suits are the god suit and assaults can't get even close to the same stats?
You also have a built in 5hp/s rep.
Let's compare apples to apples then. What do you use on your Cal Assault suit? I'll build a Gal Assault suit that's more effective.
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1437
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Posted - 2013.12.06 18:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Two enhanced armor plates and three enhanced ferroscale plates give you more armor (407 HP) than 5x complex shield extenders do shields (363 HP), with almost no movement penalty (-.05 m/s walking and -.08 m/s sprint), and do so at 45% the CPU cost and 60% the PG cost. Add external rep and you are as fast and more quickly repped than a shield tanker.
But outside of a Logi suit, you don't need any extra modules to regenerate shield. It has natural regen, while armor does not.
Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
486
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Posted - 2013.12.06 18:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:Two enhanced armor plates and three enhanced ferroscale plates give you more armor (407 HP) than 5x complex shield extenders do shields (363 HP), with almost no movement penalty (-.05 m/s walking and -.08 m/s sprint), and do so at 45% the CPU cost and 60% the PG cost. Add external rep and you are as fast and more quickly repped than a shield tanker. But outside of a Logi suit, you don't need any extra modules to regenerate shield. It has natural regen, while armor does not.
For you to regen shields, you need to be out of the line of fire, right? If you get hit while your shield is recharging, the delay is reset, and if you're getting hit and eating into armor, the delay is even longer.
So you don't think an armor tanker can duck back into cover, throw down a Wiyrkomi or Allotek triage hive, and get repped faster than it takes for your full shield to recharge?
If he has competent logis behind him, he doesn't even need to duck back into cover. He can stand in the open, soaking up damage and dealing it at the same time.
When shield tankers' shields are down, they have no choice but to hide and wait. Armor tankers don't need to do this. |
Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
Top Men.
350
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Posted - 2013.12.06 19:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Cat Merc wrote:
You do understand Logistics suits are the god suit and assaults can't get even close to the same stats?
You also have a built in 5hp/s rep.
Let's compare apples to apples then. What do you use on your Cal Assault suit? I'll build a Gal Assault suit that's more effective.
You can't. Trust me the Cal Assault bests the Gal Assault for 1 reason...CPU/PG enhancers. The Gal might have slightly more HP (and it's slight because of the bonus to extenders Cal Assaults get) but usually must run lesser tier mods.
As a Gal you either take the hit in your plates or in your dmg mods or weapon or nades or equipment but you will run lesser tier. Or you run a CPU enhancer and screw yourself out of a plate.
The tanking mods are unbalanced yes but for the Assault there is more restraints.
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4456
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 19:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Cat Merc wrote:
You do understand Logistics suits are the god suit and assaults can't get even close to the same stats?
You also have a built in 5hp/s rep.
Let's compare apples to apples then. What do you use on your Cal Assault suit? I'll build a Gal Assault suit that's more effective.
1 complex damage mod
3x complex shield extenders
A duvolle
Syndicate SMG
M1 locus
2x complex shield regs
1x complex CPU extender
Gauged nanohive
Around 500 shields, 150 armor, and full speed.
Regens at 31hp/s and has a delay of 2 seconds.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4456
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 19:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:Two enhanced armor plates and three enhanced ferroscale plates give you more armor (407 HP) than 5x complex shield extenders do shields (363 HP), with almost no movement penalty (-.05 m/s walking and -.08 m/s sprint), and do so at 45% the CPU cost and 60% the PG cost. Add external rep and you are as fast and more quickly repped than a shield tanker. But outside of a Logi suit, you don't need any extra modules to regenerate shield. It has natural regen, while armor does not. For you to regen shields, you need to be out of the line of fire, right? If you get hit while your shield is recharging, the delay is reset, and if you're getting hit and eating into armor, the delay is even longer. So you don't think an armor tanker can duck back into cover, throw down a Wiyrkomi or Allotek triage hive, and get repped faster than it takes for your full shield to recharge? If he has competent logis behind him, he doesn't even need to duck back into cover. He can stand in the open, soaking up damage and dealing it at the same time. When shield tankers' shields are down, they have no choice but to hide and wait. Armor tankers don't need to do this.
"For you to regen shields, you need to be out of the line of fire, right? If you get hit while your shield is recharging, the delay is reset, and if you're getting hit and eating into armor, the delay is even longer."
False, they count from the last time you got hit.
"If he has competent logis behind him, he doesn't even need to duck back into cover. He can stand in the open, soaking up damage and dealing it at the same time."
Armor tankers are supposed to do that.
Moving slowly, standing their ground and dealing damage.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1437
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Posted - 2013.12.06 19:06:00 -
[21] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:Two enhanced armor plates and three enhanced ferroscale plates give you more armor (407 HP) than 5x complex shield extenders do shields (363 HP), with almost no movement penalty (-.05 m/s walking and -.08 m/s sprint), and do so at 45% the CPU cost and 60% the PG cost. Add external rep and you are as fast and more quickly repped than a shield tanker. But outside of a Logi suit, you don't need any extra modules to regenerate shield. It has natural regen, while armor does not. For you to regen shields, you need to be out of the line of fire, right? If you get hit while your shield is recharging, the delay is reset, and if you're getting hit and eating into armor, the delay is even longer. So you don't think an armor tanker can duck back into cover, throw down a Wiyrkomi or Allotek triage hive, and get repped faster than it takes for your full shield to recharge? If he has competent logis behind him, he doesn't even need to duck back into cover. He can stand in the open, soaking up damage and dealing it at the same time. When shield tankers' shields are down, they have no choice but to hide and wait. Armor tankers don't need to do this.
So you're basing this while under constant fire? You must only play ambush. I'm sorry to hear that.
Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4456
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 19:06:00 -
[22] - Quote
Galvan Nized wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:Cat Merc wrote:
You do understand Logistics suits are the god suit and assaults can't get even close to the same stats?
You also have a built in 5hp/s rep.
Let's compare apples to apples then. What do you use on your Cal Assault suit? I'll build a Gal Assault suit that's more effective. You can't. Trust me the Cal Assault bests the Gal Assault for 1 reason...CPU/PG enhancers. The Gal might have slightly more HP (and it's slight because of the bonus to extenders Cal Assaults get) but usually must run lesser tier mods. As a Gal you either take the hit in your plates or in your dmg mods or weapon or nades or equipment but you will run lesser tier. Or you run a CPU enhancer and screw yourself out of a plate. The tanking mods are unbalanced yes but for the Assault there is more restraints.
Exactly.
And I swear if one more person makes a Gal Assault fit with a compact hive I will punch someone.
These are terrible, don't even bother showing me your fit if that's what you use.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
816
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 19:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
Shield regulators has a stacking penalty, it is not worth to use more than one I think.
KDR > ALL
ME > KDR
ME > ALL
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
117
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Posted - 2013.12.06 19:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
Its probably fair to say you didn't run into a good SCR user when you went 28-1, or I suspect you would have died a few more times.
Then again, I've played against you before, and you're pretty damn good, so who knows. |
Kane Fyea
2330
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Posted - 2013.12.06 19:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:Two enhanced armor plates and three enhanced ferroscale plates give you more armor (407 HP) than 5x complex shield extenders do shields (363 HP), with almost no movement penalty (-.05 m/s walking and -.08 m/s sprint), and do so at 45% the CPU cost and 60% the PG cost. Add external rep and you are as fast and more quickly repped than a shield tanker. But outside of a Logi suit, you don't need any extra modules to regenerate shield. It has natural regen, while armor does not. For you to regen shields, you need to be out of the line of fire, right? If you get hit while your shield is recharging, the delay is reset, and if you're getting hit and eating into armor, the delay is even longer. So you don't think an armor tanker can duck back into cover, throw down a Wiyrkomi or Allotek triage hive, and get repped faster than it takes for your full shield to recharge? If he has competent logis behind him, he doesn't even need to duck back into cover. He can stand in the open, soaking up damage and dealing it at the same time. When shield tankers' shields are down, they have no choice but to hide and wait. Armor tankers don't need to do this.
1. Shield tankers are hit and run while armor is stand there and hold your ground so of course that's how armor tankers are going to play
2. Woohoo repair nanohives oh wait I have flux grenades that easily destroy any piece of equipment within 6.6m (Even through walls)
3. Any competent assault would never face an armor tanked suit with a logi head on. Iff they do that's their own fault. (Always go from behind and/or destroy logi first then go onto assault or heavy for easy kill)
4. Again you say you need to "hide and wait" but that is the point of shield tanking. Low hp higher speed, get in damage some guys then get out and start regenerating then go in and repeat (Armor tankers are supposed to stand there and take the damage which is why they have plenty of armor but rep slowly. They are also the best and point defense). It's not our fault you can't see that. |
Luk Manag
of Terror
TRE GAFFEL
193
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Posted - 2013.12.06 19:19:00 -
[26] - Quote
Kane Fyea wrote:
2. Woohoo repair nanohives oh wait I have flux grenades that easily destroy any piece of equipment within 6.6m. (Even through walls) Also lets mention how nanohives can't even move.
Repair nanohives and core reppers.
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
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Kane Fyea
2330
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 19:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
Luk Manag wrote:Kane Fyea wrote:
2. Woohoo repair nanohives oh wait I have flux grenades that easily destroy any piece of equipment within 6.6m. (Even through walls) Also lets mention how nanohives can't even move.
Repair nanohives and core reppers.
Well cool for the armor tanker who is
1. Using teamwork (The most OP way to win)
2. Has a logi who is skilled deeply into repair tools
3. Also still doesn't negate the point of flux grenades just after you flux the hives kill the logi (Which should now have little to no shields). |
Vin Mora
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
258
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Posted - 2013.12.06 19:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:I just went to play my Caldari Assault to see what's all the buzz is about.
Besides going 28/1 when I'm half asleep, I also noticed something I never noticed before.
How much armor slows me down!
It might seem on paper tiny, but I definitely feel a pretty huge difference.
It just feels more mobile, I can do better maneuvering and toy with the enemy better (like I like to do).
And I'm not even using complex plates, only two enhanced.
I also didn't have the problem of "oh they are hacking an objective 200m from here... Do I really need to run that? My team will probably get that by the time I'm there".
Especially a problem in PC when points flip flop a lot. (Went 2/0 because I couldn't get to points fast enough to battle)
I suggest you guys go in a full armor suit with two enhanced plates at least, play 10 matches, and then get back to your shield tank suit.
Trust me, you will feel the difference.
I love how I argued this very fact, when we were discussing Logis, and you totally disregarded the difference in speed as a non-existent factor.
Sanguis Defense Syndicate: Recruitment now open for players of all skill levels
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
486
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Posted - 2013.12.06 19:42:00 -
[29] - Quote
Here's my build:
Assault gk.0
2x Complex Light Damage Modifiers
1x Basic Sidearm Damage Modifier
2x Enhanced Ferroscale Plates
2x Enhanced Armor Plates
Duvolle Assault Rifle
Syndicate SMG
M1 Locus Grenades
Wiyrkomi Triage Nanohive
Total HP 764 (150 shields 614 armor). Speed is 4.87 m/s walking, 7.16 m/s sprint (-.13 and -.19 vs. the Cal Assault).
Not positive, but I think that repair hives heal once every second (it might be longer though). But for argument's sake, let's say it's 70 HP/sec. The hive will heal me from zero to full in 8.8 seconds, plus maybe a 4 second delay to deploy it and activate it, so 12.8 seconds total. After 16 seconds, my 150 shield is repped as well.
Even with your regulators, going from zero to full shields will take 20.47 seconds, and you have no means self of armor rep.
Once we engage each other again, I have 70 HP/sec at my disposal whenever I duck back into cover, or if I'm just peeking out of cover. This also gets me triage points if teammates happen to be nearby.
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Aisha Ctarl
0uter.Heaven
Proficiency V.
1993
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Posted - 2013.12.06 19:44:00 -
[30] - Quote
Honestly you just get used to it being an armor tanker.
I chose to tank armor even before the Amarr suits were available, and you just get used to moving slowly - it doesn't even bother me at all.
"The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited."
-The Code of Demeanor
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Kane Fyea
2330
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Posted - 2013.12.06 19:47:00 -
[31] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Here's my build:
Assault gk.0
2x Complex Light Damage Modifiers
1x Basic Sidearm Damage Modifier
2x Enhanced Ferroscale Plates
2x Enhanced Armor Plates
Duvolle Assault Rifle
Syndicate SMG
M1 Locus Grenades
Wiyrkomi Triage Nanohive
Total HP 764 (150 shields 614 armor). Speed is 4.87 m/s walking, 7.16 m/s sprint (-.13 and -.19 vs. the Cal Assault).
Not positive, but I think that repair hives heal once every second (it might be longer though). But for argument's sake, let's say it's 70 HP/sec. The hive will heal me from zero to full in 8.8 seconds, plus maybe a 4 second delay to deploy it and activate it, so 12.8 seconds total. After 16 seconds, my 150 shield is repped as well.
Even with your regulators, going from zero to full shields will take 20.47 seconds, and you have no means self of armor rep.
Once we engage each other again, I have 70 HP/sec at my disposal whenever I duck back into cover, or if I'm just peeking out of cover. This also gets me triage points if teammates happen to be nearby.
Oh cool thing I have flux grenades. Plus armor has no natural rep and with nanohives they're immobile and nanohives are very easily destroyed by shooting, fluxing, or mding. Really if you die to an armor tanked guy on nanos more then once then you're pretty stupid. |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
486
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Posted - 2013.12.06 19:48:00 -
[32] - Quote
Kane Fyea wrote:Luk Manag wrote:Kane Fyea wrote:
2. Woohoo repair nanohives oh wait I have flux grenades that easily destroy any piece of equipment within 6.6m. (Even through walls) Also lets mention how nanohives can't even move.
Repair nanohives and core reppers. Well cool for the armor tanker who is 1. Using teamwork (The most OP way to win) 2. Has a logi who is skilled deeply into repair tools 3. Also still doesn't negate the point of flux grenades just after you flux the hives kill the logi (Which should now have little to no shields).
What if the logi is also armor tanking? What if it's two armor/damage tanked Gal Logis, each with proto reppers, trading off being the slayer?
Good luck fluxing that!
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Kane Fyea
2330
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Posted - 2013.12.06 19:50:00 -
[33] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Kane Fyea wrote:Luk Manag wrote:Kane Fyea wrote:
2. Woohoo repair nanohives oh wait I have flux grenades that easily destroy any piece of equipment within 6.6m. (Even through walls) Also lets mention how nanohives can't even move.
Repair nanohives and core reppers. Well cool for the armor tanker who is 1. Using teamwork (The most OP way to win) 2. Has a logi who is skilled deeply into repair tools 3. Also still doesn't negate the point of flux grenades just after you flux the hives kill the logi (Which should now have little to no shields). What if the logi is also armor tanking? What if it's two armor/damage tanked Gal Logis, each with proto reppers, trading off being the slayer? Good luck fluxing that!
Then use an MD or locus grenades or get them from behind. Really do I have to walk you through this. |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
486
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 19:51:00 -
[34] - Quote
Kane Fyea wrote:
Oh cool thing I have flux grenades. Plus armor has no natural rep and with nanohives they're immobile and nanohives are very easily destroyed by shooting, fluxing, or mding. Really if you die to an armor tanked guy on nanos more then once then you're pretty stupid.]
Right, and this is why no one uses nanohives in game - because everyone destroys them so easily.
|
Kane Fyea
2330
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 19:52:00 -
[35] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Kane Fyea wrote:
Oh cool thing I have flux grenades. Plus armor has no natural rep and with nanohives they're immobile and nanohives are very easily destroyed by shooting, fluxing, or mding. Really if you die to an armor tanked guy on nanos more then once then you're pretty stupid.]
Right, and this is why no one uses nanohives in game - because everyone destroys them so easily.
You can destroy them easily but will you? Well thats for you to decide (but seriously if you don't destroy enemy rep nanos then you are stupid since they give quite an advantage to the enemy) |
calvin b
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
1092
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 19:54:00 -
[36] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:Two enhanced armor plates and three enhanced ferroscale plates give you more armor (407 HP) than 5x complex shield extenders do shields (363 HP), with almost no movement penalty (-.05 m/s walking and -.08 m/s sprint), and do so at 45% the CPU cost and 60% the PG cost. Add external rep and you are as fast and more quickly repped than a shield tanker. EXTERNAL rep. My Caldari has a delay of 2 seconds, and then I have a rep as strong as the old rep tools. Also, Ferroscale plates are extremely heavy on CPU/PG. In general that's a **** fit, don't rely on logis too much, they can die and then you're **** for luck. You might also want to consider that Gallente assaults have 4 slots, not 5. And Cal Assaults have 4 highs, not 5. I was doing it mainly as a comparison for logis since it's relevant to me. But my point still stands. You're saying the shield suits get a speed advantage over armor suits, because armor slows you down. But I'm showing that you can get more buffer, no movement penalty, and less CPU/PG usage if you use armor in this way. Use Wiyrkomi Triage Hives and you get delay-free self-rep better than any shield suit. Not to mention if you draw the attention of logis, you can have multiple beams locked onto you and be pretty much invincible to anything but cores, REs, forge guns, or vehicle hit and runs. Enhanced ferroscales use 7 more CPU and 1 more PG than enhanced armor plates. You need to get better logis in your squad, or better yet, a squad of only damage/armor logis, each with a repair tool. It's eye-opening how OP that can be.
Who has that much CPU/PG to run ferroscales and a Wirykomi hive plus a decent weapon and side arm. An assault suit has S*** for power compared to a logi. That is the biggest problem with a Log vs. Assault. A Logi can tank and equip more than assault. Assault suits need at least 100 more CPU and for an Armor class like Gal they need at least another 50PG.
F* the Snowflake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgKd3cdKdak
|
calvin b
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
1092
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 19:59:00 -
[37] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Galvan Nized wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:Cat Merc wrote:
You do understand Logistics suits are the god suit and assaults can't get even close to the same stats?
You also have a built in 5hp/s rep.
Let's compare apples to apples then. What do you use on your Cal Assault suit? I'll build a Gal Assault suit that's more effective. You can't. Trust me the Cal Assault bests the Gal Assault for 1 reason...CPU/PG enhancers. The Gal might have slightly more HP (and it's slight because of the bonus to extenders Cal Assaults get) but usually must run lesser tier mods. As a Gal you either take the hit in your plates or in your dmg mods or weapon or nades or equipment but you will run lesser tier. Or you run a CPU enhancer and screw yourself out of a plate. The tanking mods are unbalanced yes but for the Assault there is more restraints. Exactly. And I swear if one more person makes a Gal Assault fit with a compact hive I will punch someone. These are terrible, don't even bother showing me your fit if that's what you use.
Hey I use a compact hive and they are very useful. Because my suit is gimped in power and Logi's are to busy being slayers I have to use what ever I can to make sure I can survive.
F* the Snowflake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgKd3cdKdak
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2196
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 20:04:00 -
[38] - Quote
Cat isn't interested in balance in regards to shields. He could literally have every single other person in Dust tell him that shields need work and he'd still argue about it.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
487
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 20:04:00 -
[39] - Quote
calvin b wrote:
Who has that much CPU/PG to run ferroscales and a Wirykomi hive plus a decent weapon and side arm. An assault suit has S*** for power compared to a logi. That is the biggest problem with a Log vs. Assault. A Logi can tank and equip more than assault. Assault suits need at least 100 more CPU and for an Armor class like Gal they need at least another 50PG.
Get all your cores up, and your explosives/light weapon to a decent level - maybe 4. The Gal Assault also benefits from the light weapon fitting bonus.
Kane, all I have to say to you is, "easier said than done". Seems to me that by your logic, you should be the most OP person in the game because you can always just sneak up behind someone and shoot them in the back. Get real.
You can't always get close enough to flux nanohives or core people (without dying).
You can't always sneak around someone, particularly with the number of scanners in the game.
You can't always MD because explosives need line of sight on the nano to destroy it.
You can't always kill the logi because smart logis move while repping, and chances are that if you have LOS on the logi, the slayer has LOS on you. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2196
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 20:06:00 -
[40] - Quote
calvin b wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:Two enhanced armor plates and three enhanced ferroscale plates give you more armor (407 HP) than 5x complex shield extenders do shields (363 HP), with almost no movement penalty (-.05 m/s walking and -.08 m/s sprint), and do so at 45% the CPU cost and 60% the PG cost. Add external rep and you are as fast and more quickly repped than a shield tanker. EXTERNAL rep. My Caldari has a delay of 2 seconds, and then I have a rep as strong as the old rep tools. Also, Ferroscale plates are extremely heavy on CPU/PG. In general that's a **** fit, don't rely on logis too much, they can die and then you're **** for luck. You might also want to consider that Gallente assaults have 4 slots, not 5. And Cal Assaults have 4 highs, not 5. I was doing it mainly as a comparison for logis since it's relevant to me. But my point still stands. You're saying the shield suits get a speed advantage over armor suits, because armor slows you down. But I'm showing that you can get more buffer, no movement penalty, and less CPU/PG usage if you use armor in this way. Use Wiyrkomi Triage Hives and you get delay-free self-rep better than any shield suit. Not to mention if you draw the attention of logis, you can have multiple beams locked onto you and be pretty much invincible to anything but cores, REs, forge guns, or vehicle hit and runs. Enhanced ferroscales use 7 more CPU and 1 more PG than enhanced armor plates. You need to get better logis in your squad, or better yet, a squad of only damage/armor logis, each with a repair tool. It's eye-opening how OP that can be. Who has that much CPU/PG to run ferroscales and a Wirykomi hive plus a decent weapon and side arm. An assault suit has S*** for power compared to a logi. That is the biggest problem with a Log vs. Assault. A Logi can tank and equip more than assault. Assault suits need at least 100 more CPU and for an Armor class like Gal they need at least another 50PG.
I'd love to hear CCP's logic in making it nearly impossible to fit a viable assault suit. I don't get it.
Just adjusting the fitting ability and balancing logi bonuses and it would end so much QQ
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
|
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Kane Fyea
2331
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 20:06:00 -
[41] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:calvin b wrote:
Who has that much CPU/PG to run ferroscales and a Wirykomi hive plus a decent weapon and side arm. An assault suit has S*** for power compared to a logi. That is the biggest problem with a Log vs. Assault. A Logi can tank and equip more than assault. Assault suits need at least 100 more CPU and for an Armor class like Gal they need at least another 50PG.
Get all your cores up, and your explosives/light weapon to a decent level - maybe 4. The Gal Assault also benefits from the light weapon fitting bonus. Kane, all I have to say to you is, "easier said than done". Seems to me that by your logic, you should be the most OP person in the game because you can always just sneak up behind someone and shoot them in the back. Get real. You can't always get close enough to flux nanohives or core people (without dying). You can't always sneak around someone, particularly with the number of scanners in the game. You can't always MD because explosives need line of sight on the nano to destroy it. You can't always kill the logi because smart logis move while repping, and chances are that if you have LOS on the logi, the slayer has LOS on you.
Have you never heard of an active scanner? Try using one (Tells you where they are and where they are facing. If they have one use profile dampeners). And yes I do sneak up on my enemies a lot since I use a scout shotty a lot. Also you do know you have team mates too right? Have them help you. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2197
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 20:08:00 -
[42] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:calvin b wrote:
Who has that much CPU/PG to run ferroscales and a Wirykomi hive plus a decent weapon and side arm. An assault suit has S*** for power compared to a logi. That is the biggest problem with a Log vs. Assault. A Logi can tank and equip more than assault. Assault suits need at least 100 more CPU and for an Armor class like Gal they need at least another 50PG.
Get all your cores up, and your explosives/light weapon to a decent level - maybe 4. The Gal Assault also benefits from the light weapon fitting bonus. Kane, all I have to say to you is, "easier said than done". Seems to me that by your logic, you should be the most OP person in the game because you can always just sneak up behind someone and shoot them in the back. Get real. You can't always get close enough to flux nanohives or core people (without dying). You can't always sneak around someone, particularly with the number of scanners in the game. You can't always MD because explosives need line of sight on the nano to destroy it. You can't always kill the logi because smart logis move while repping, and chances are that if you have LOS on the logi, the slayer has LOS on you.
You should drop the regulator and put on a dampener then, come on man.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2197
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 20:09:00 -
[43] - Quote
Kane Fyea wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:calvin b wrote:
Who has that much CPU/PG to run ferroscales and a Wirykomi hive plus a decent weapon and side arm. An assault suit has S*** for power compared to a logi. That is the biggest problem with a Log vs. Assault. A Logi can tank and equip more than assault. Assault suits need at least 100 more CPU and for an Armor class like Gal they need at least another 50PG.
Get all your cores up, and your explosives/light weapon to a decent level - maybe 4. The Gal Assault also benefits from the light weapon fitting bonus. Kane, all I have to say to you is, "easier said than done". Seems to me that by your logic, you should be the most OP person in the game because you can always just sneak up behind someone and shoot them in the back. Get real. You can't always get close enough to flux nanohives or core people (without dying). You can't always sneak around someone, particularly with the number of scanners in the game. You can't always MD because explosives need line of sight on the nano to destroy it. You can't always kill the logi because smart logis move while repping, and chances are that if you have LOS on the logi, the slayer has LOS on you. Have you never heard of an active scanner? Try using one (Tells you where they are and where they are facing. If they have one use profile dampeners). And yes I do sneak up on my enemies a lot since I use a scout shotty a lot.
If he's running a shield fit he likely is short on CPU/PG to run an ADV scanner. Again better off throw two basic plates on instead of properly setting up a shield fit.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
Kane Fyea
2331
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 20:13:00 -
[44] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Kane Fyea wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:calvin b wrote:
Who has that much CPU/PG to run ferroscales and a Wirykomi hive plus a decent weapon and side arm. An assault suit has S*** for power compared to a logi. That is the biggest problem with a Log vs. Assault. A Logi can tank and equip more than assault. Assault suits need at least 100 more CPU and for an Armor class like Gal they need at least another 50PG.
Get all your cores up, and your explosives/light weapon to a decent level - maybe 4. The Gal Assault also benefits from the light weapon fitting bonus. Kane, all I have to say to you is, "easier said than done". Seems to me that by your logic, you should be the most OP person in the game because you can always just sneak up behind someone and shoot them in the back. Get real. You can't always get close enough to flux nanohives or core people (without dying). You can't always sneak around someone, particularly with the number of scanners in the game. You can't always MD because explosives need line of sight on the nano to destroy it. You can't always kill the logi because smart logis move while repping, and chances are that if you have LOS on the logi, the slayer has LOS on you. Have you never heard of an active scanner? Try using one (Tells you where they are and where they are facing. If they have one use profile dampeners). And yes I do sneak up on my enemies a lot since I use a scout shotty a lot. If he's running a shield fit he likely is short on CPU/PG to run an ADV scanner. Again better off throw two basic plates on instead of properly setting up a shield fit.
Well if he wants to kill people using teamwork to their advantage efficiently then he needs to use some teamwork too (For one get a logi to help) |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4457
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 20:14:00 -
[45] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:Cat,
Its probably fair to say you didn't run into a good SCR user when you went 28-1, or I suspect you would have died a few more times.
Then again, I've played against you before, and you're pretty damn good, so who knows.
Have fun....Leadfoot
If I did meet a good SCR user then I shouldn't have got that good of a score.
Because, ya know, it's an anti shield weapon?
Just like there are two anti armor weapons coming soon(not TM)?
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4457
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 20:16:00 -
[46] - Quote
Vin Mora wrote:Cat Merc wrote:I just went to play my Caldari Assault to see what's all the buzz is about.
Besides going 28/1 when I'm half asleep, I also noticed something I never noticed before.
How much armor slows me down!
It might seem on paper tiny, but I definitely feel a pretty huge difference.
It just feels more mobile, I can do better maneuvering and toy with the enemy better (like I like to do).
And I'm not even using complex plates, only two enhanced.
I also didn't have the problem of "oh they are hacking an objective 200m from here... Do I really need to run that? My team will probably get that by the time I'm there".
Especially a problem in PC when points flip flop a lot. (Went 2/0 because I couldn't get to points fast enough to battle)
I suggest you guys go in a full armor suit with two enhanced plates at least, play 10 matches, and then get back to your shield tank suit.
Trust me, you will feel the difference. I love how I argued this very fact, when we were discussing Logis, and you totally disregarded the difference in speed as a non-existent factor.
Honestly between my Gallente Assault and Gallente Logi I feel the difference, but my performance isn't degraded because of that, since Logis are that good.
If the speed wasn't there Logis would be even more god like.
Which isn't to say they aren't god like now.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4457
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 20:18:00 -
[47] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Here's my build:
Assault gk.0
2x Complex Light Damage Modifiers
1x Basic Sidearm Damage Modifier
2x Enhanced Ferroscale Plates
2x Enhanced Armor Plates
Duvolle Assault Rifle
Syndicate SMG
M1 Locus Grenades
Wiyrkomi Triage Nanohive
Total HP 764 (150 shields 614 armor). Speed is 4.87 m/s walking, 7.16 m/s sprint (-.13 and -.19 vs. the Cal Assault).
Not positive, but I think that repair hives heal once every second (it might be longer though). But for argument's sake, let's say it's 70 HP/sec. The hive will heal me from zero to full in 8.8 seconds, plus maybe a 4 second delay to deploy it and activate it, so 12.8 seconds total. After 16 seconds, my 150 shield is repped as well.
Even with your regulators, going from zero to full shields will take 20.47 seconds, and you have no means self of armor rep.
Once we engage each other again, I have 70 HP/sec at my disposal whenever I duck back into cover, or if I'm just peeking out of cover. This also gets me triage points if teammates happen to be nearby.
Basic sidearm damage mod?
wut?
That's 3%, that's worthless.
In addition, Wiyrkomi triage hives are:
1. Limited
2. You can't have ammo with them
3. Can get destroyed
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
|
Kane Fyea
2332
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 20:19:00 -
[48] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:Here's my build:
Assault gk.0
2x Complex Light Damage Modifiers
1x Basic Sidearm Damage Modifier
2x Enhanced Ferroscale Plates
2x Enhanced Armor Plates
Duvolle Assault Rifle
Syndicate SMG
M1 Locus Grenades
Wiyrkomi Triage Nanohive
Total HP 764 (150 shields 614 armor). Speed is 4.87 m/s walking, 7.16 m/s sprint (-.13 and -.19 vs. the Cal Assault).
Not positive, but I think that repair hives heal once every second (it might be longer though). But for argument's sake, let's say it's 70 HP/sec. The hive will heal me from zero to full in 8.8 seconds, plus maybe a 4 second delay to deploy it and activate it, so 12.8 seconds total. After 16 seconds, my 150 shield is repped as well.
Even with your regulators, going from zero to full shields will take 20.47 seconds, and you have no means self of armor rep.
Once we engage each other again, I have 70 HP/sec at my disposal whenever I duck back into cover, or if I'm just peeking out of cover. This also gets me triage points if teammates happen to be nearby.
Basic sidearm damage mod? wut? That's 3%, that's worthless. In addition, Wiyrkomi triage hives are: 1. Limited 2. You can't have ammo with them 3. Can get destroyed
and since he has no reppers on there he pretty much immobilizes himself since the only reps he'll get is from his nanos (Or logi if you have one on your team). |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4457
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 20:20:00 -
[49] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Cat isn't interested in balance in regards to shields. He could literally have every single other person in Dust tell him that shields need work and he'd still argue about it.
I want proof.
Everyone is screaming off the top of their lungs bullshit.
Literally the only valid argument to be ever made is "nanohives".
Which honestly I think are too powerful, but even then I counter them easily when I go up against them.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4457
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 20:21:00 -
[50] - Quote
Kane Fyea wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:Here's my build:
Assault gk.0
2x Complex Light Damage Modifiers
1x Basic Sidearm Damage Modifier
2x Enhanced Ferroscale Plates
2x Enhanced Armor Plates
Duvolle Assault Rifle
Syndicate SMG
M1 Locus Grenades
Wiyrkomi Triage Nanohive
Total HP 764 (150 shields 614 armor). Speed is 4.87 m/s walking, 7.16 m/s sprint (-.13 and -.19 vs. the Cal Assault).
Not positive, but I think that repair hives heal once every second (it might be longer though). But for argument's sake, let's say it's 70 HP/sec. The hive will heal me from zero to full in 8.8 seconds, plus maybe a 4 second delay to deploy it and activate it, so 12.8 seconds total. After 16 seconds, my 150 shield is repped as well.
Even with your regulators, going from zero to full shields will take 20.47 seconds, and you have no means self of armor rep.
Once we engage each other again, I have 70 HP/sec at my disposal whenever I duck back into cover, or if I'm just peeking out of cover. This also gets me triage points if teammates happen to be nearby.
Basic sidearm damage mod? wut? That's 3%, that's worthless. In addition, Wiyrkomi triage hives are: 1. Limited 2. You can't have ammo with them 3. Can get destroyed and since he has no reppers on there he pretty much immobilizes himself since the only reps he'll get is from his nanos (Or logi if you have one on your team).
Yup.
This is one of many "sounds good on paper" fits that simply don't work in combat.
I TRIED, I literally tried everything on my Gallente suit.
Speed tanking, stealth, 4x complex armor plates, 4x complex armor repairers.
EVERYTHING.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
|
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4457
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 20:23:00 -
[51] - Quote
Shield users teaching me how to armor tank in a nutshell:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=729245
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
|
Kane Fyea
2332
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 20:25:00 -
[52] - Quote
That link is broken. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4457
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 20:28:00 -
[53] - Quote
Odd, when I click it, it doesn't work.
But when I copy pasta it to the browser it works.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
|
Kane Fyea
2332
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 20:30:00 -
[54] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Odd, when I click it, it doesn't work. But when I copy pasta it to the browser it works.
That is weird. |
TERMINALANCE
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
234
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 20:36:00 -
[55] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:Two enhanced armor plates and three enhanced ferroscale plates give you more armor (407 HP) than 5x complex shield extenders do shields (363 HP), with almost no movement penalty (-.05 m/s walking and -.08 m/s sprint), and do so at 45% the CPU cost and 60% the PG cost. Add external rep and you are as fast and more quickly repped than a shield tanker. But outside of a Logi suit, you don't need any extra modules to regenerate shield. It has natural regen, while armor does not. For you to regen shields, you need to be out of the line of fire, right? If you get hit while your shield is recharging, the delay is reset, and if you're getting hit and eating into armor, the delay is even longer. So you don't think an armor tanker can duck back into cover, throw down a Wiyrkomi or Allotek triage hive, and get repped faster than it takes for your full shield to recharge? If he has competent logis behind him, he doesn't even need to duck back into cover. He can stand in the open, soaking up damage and dealing it at the same time. When shield tankers' shields are down, they have no choice but to hide and wait. Armor tankers don't need to do this.
you forget all the other factors that affect armor tankers, like grenades and mass drivers and flaylocks, armor tankers are very susceptible to grenades and other explosions, logis aside because they are broken. a shield tanker can pop a grenade on a armor tanker and do a ton of dmg that the armor tanker has little hope of escaping from. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4459
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 20:38:00 -
[56] - Quote
TERMINALANCE wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:Two enhanced armor plates and three enhanced ferroscale plates give you more armor (407 HP) than 5x complex shield extenders do shields (363 HP), with almost no movement penalty (-.05 m/s walking and -.08 m/s sprint), and do so at 45% the CPU cost and 60% the PG cost. Add external rep and you are as fast and more quickly repped than a shield tanker. But outside of a Logi suit, you don't need any extra modules to regenerate shield. It has natural regen, while armor does not. For you to regen shields, you need to be out of the line of fire, right? If you get hit while your shield is recharging, the delay is reset, and if you're getting hit and eating into armor, the delay is even longer. So you don't think an armor tanker can duck back into cover, throw down a Wiyrkomi or Allotek triage hive, and get repped faster than it takes for your full shield to recharge? If he has competent logis behind him, he doesn't even need to duck back into cover. He can stand in the open, soaking up damage and dealing it at the same time. When shield tankers' shields are down, they have no choice but to hide and wait. Armor tankers don't need to do this. you forget all the other factors that affect armor tankers, like grenades and mass drivers and flaylocks, armor tankers are very susceptible to grenades and other explosions, logis aside because they are broken. a shield tanker can pop a grenade on a armor tanker and do a ton of dmg that the armor tanker has little hope of escaping from.
Can't tell you how many times I was with my shield tanker squad and I was the only one killed from a nade because I was too slow to get away in time.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
|
Boot Booter
Omega Elite Mercs INC.
217
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 20:46:00 -
[57] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:Cat Merc wrote:
You do understand Logistics suits are the god suit and assaults can't get even close to the same stats?
You also have a built in 5hp/s rep.
Let's compare apples to apples then. What do you use on your Cal Assault suit? I'll build a Gal Assault suit that's more effective. 1 complex damage mod 3x complex shield extenders A duvolle Syndicate SMG M1 locus 2x complex shield regs 1x complex CPU extender Gauged nanohive Around 500 shields, 150 armor, and full speed. Regens at 31hp/s and has a delay of 2 seconds.
Min assault.
4 complex shield extenders
1 complex enigizer
1 CPU upgrade
1 complex refulator
Proto weapons
450 shield 150 armor (or something), recharge slightly better (33 hp/s) and a delay of 4 seconds or something. Absolutely no damage mod unless you want to take the rest of the game to get shields back up. But we are slightly faster and have 1 hp/s armor regen! Woooooo
Fck this game...  |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
487
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 20:46:00 -
[58] - Quote
TERMINALANCE wrote:
you forget all the other factors that affect armor tankers, like grenades and mass drivers and flaylocks, armor tankers are very susceptible to grenades and other explosions, logis aside because they are broken. a shield tanker can pop a grenade on a armor tanker and do a ton of dmg that the armor tanker has little hope of escaping from.
Right, and a single basic flux will wipe out any infantry's shields.
Cat, I added the basic sidearm damage mod because there was nothing else to put there and still have a valid fitting (aside from shield stuff). Better than leaving a slot empty. I also wanted to keep the same weapons/grenade that you had. If I dropped the sidearm mod I can put Core Locus in there instead - would you like that better?
The point of that build was to make an armor tanker fit that A) had more EHP than you and B) had equitable speed. It's not a lone wolf fit, and needs team support to work. Logi squad support would be best.
But let's face it - if you're an armor tanker, you're rocking what, 10-15 HP/sec regen? This isn't going to help you much if you don't have a high enough buffer, and logi reps or external reps are far more efficient than sitting and waiting for 40 seconds.
The bottom line is - if you want to be a solo, lone wolf killer, shields are best. If you have squad support, armor is best.
If a full squad of shield suits went up against a full squad of armor suits with reppers, which would win?
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4462
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 20:54:00 -
[59] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:TERMINALANCE wrote:
you forget all the other factors that affect armor tankers, like grenades and mass drivers and flaylocks, armor tankers are very susceptible to grenades and other explosions, logis aside because they are broken. a shield tanker can pop a grenade on a armor tanker and do a ton of dmg that the armor tanker has little hope of escaping from.
Right, and a single basic flux will wipe out any infantry's shields. Cat, I added the basic sidearm damage mod because there was nothing else to put there and still have a valid fitting (aside from shield stuff). Better than leaving a slot empty. I also wanted to keep the same weapons/grenade that you had. If I dropped the sidearm mod I can put Core Locus in there instead - would you like that better? The point of that build was to make an armor tanker fit that A) had more EHP than you and B) had equitable speed. It's not a lone wolf fit, and needs team support to work. Logi squad support would be best. But let's face it - if you're an armor tanker, you're rocking what, 10-15 HP/sec regen? This isn't going to help you much if you don't have a high enough buffer, and logi reps or external reps are far more efficient than sitting and waiting for 40 seconds. The bottom line is - if you want to be a solo, lone wolf killer, shields are best. If you have squad support, armor is best. If a full squad of shield suits went up against a full squad of armor suits with reppers, which would win?
On my Gallente Assault I have 502 armor, 217 shields, 10hp/s armor regen, two complex damage mods.
I however run a GEK and a X-3 Nanohive to fit all of that.
"The bottom line is - if you want to be a solo, lone wolf killer, shields are best. If you have squad support, armor is best."
There's nothing wrong with that, at all really.
"If a full squad of shield suits went up against a full squad of armor suits with reppers, which would win?"
If the shield tankers are smart and target the reppers, the battle would be even.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
|
Kane Fyea
2332
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 21:03:00 -
[60] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:TERMINALANCE wrote:
you forget all the other factors that affect armor tankers, like grenades and mass drivers and flaylocks, armor tankers are very susceptible to grenades and other explosions, logis aside because they are broken. a shield tanker can pop a grenade on a armor tanker and do a ton of dmg that the armor tanker has little hope of escaping from.
Right, and a single basic flux will wipe out any infantry's shields. Cat, I added the basic sidearm damage mod because there was nothing else to put there and still have a valid fitting (aside from shield stuff). Better than leaving a slot empty. I also wanted to keep the same weapons/grenade that you had. If I dropped the sidearm mod I can put Core Locus in there instead - would you like that better? The point of that build was to make an armor tanker fit that A) had more EHP than you and B) had equitable speed. It's not a lone wolf fit, and needs team support to work. Logi squad support would be best. But let's face it - if you're an armor tanker, you're rocking what, 10-15 HP/sec regen? This isn't going to help you much if you don't have a high enough buffer, and logi reps or external reps are far more efficient than sitting and waiting for 40 seconds. The bottom line is - if you want to be a solo, lone wolf killer, shields are best. If you have squad support, armor is best. If a full squad of shield suits went up against a full squad of armor suits with reppers, which would win?
One locus grenade and the armor tanker is either 1. Instakilled (Which if this happens then you cannot be revived) or 2. Pretty much dead. |
|
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
487
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 21:10:00 -
[61] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:
"If a full squad of shield suits went up against a full squad of armor suits with reppers, which would win?"
If the shield tankers are smart and target the reppers, the battle would be even.
You really think so? REALLY?
Shield merc ducks into cover after shields are down. Can't get back into the fight for another 20 seconds.
Armor merc yells I NEED REPS! and logi puts away his weapon to repair the merc - taking all of what, 10 seconds? The logi can either choose to triage him and another merc, giving them 70 HP/sec constant regen with the Lai Dai Flux, or switch back to his gun.
All the while your squads are exchanging fire, and the armor squad's damage dealt is perhaps 10-15% higher due to their ability to stack damage mods while still maintaining a high buffer.
You're trying to put shields at an equal level with armor, probably as a damage control measure to prevent an armor nerf. But armor is better than shields in the current build. |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
487
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 21:13:00 -
[62] - Quote
Kane Fyea wrote:
One locus grenade and the armor tanker is either 1. Instakilled (Which if this happens then you cannot be revived) or 2. Pretty much dead.
One flux grenade and the entire shield squad is pissing their pants because they're at 20% of their usual HP.
Fluxes that can go through cover, btw.
And in case you didn't know, brick tanking with shields instead of damage mods can mitigate much of the damage from even Core Locus grenades. It won't be much benefit if you are damage tanking with rep tools on you, so I didn't mention this before. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4462
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 21:17:00 -
[63] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Cat Merc wrote:
"If a full squad of shield suits went up against a full squad of armor suits with reppers, which would win?"
If the shield tankers are smart and target the reppers, the battle would be even.
You really think so? REALLY? Shield merc ducks into cover after shields are down. Can't get back into the fight for another 20 seconds. Armor merc yells I NEED REPS! and logi puts away his weapon to repair the merc - taking all of what, 10 seconds? The logi can either choose to triage him and another merc, giving them 70 HP/sec constant regen with the Lai Dai Flux, or switch back to his gun. All the while your squads are exchanging fire, and the armor squad's damage dealt is perhaps 10-15% higher due to their ability to stack damage mods while still maintaining a high buffer. You're trying to put shields at an equal level with armor, probably as a damage control measure to prevent an armor nerf. But armor is better than shields in the current build.
huhuh.
The difference between my Gallente and Caldari assault is 5% damage, and in exchange it has more speed, better regen (70hp/s from another player, or 31hp/s from your butt that only takes 2 seconds to start working again), better equipment because it doesn't lack CPU/PG.
The dual rep beam is OP, but the rest are fine.
GTFO, if something requires team work, it should be more powerful, that is all.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
|
Kane Fyea
2332
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 21:17:00 -
[64] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Kane Fyea wrote:
One locus grenade and the armor tanker is either 1. Instakilled (Which if this happens then you cannot be revived) or 2. Pretty much dead.
One flux grenade and the entire shield squad is pissing their pants because they're at 20% of their usual HP. Fluxes that can go through cover, btw. And in case you didn't know, brick tanking with shields instead of damage mods can mitigate much of the damage from even Core Locus grenades. It won't be much benefit if you are damage tanking with rep tools on you, so I didn't mention this before.
Yep its called exploiting your disadvantages which is a 100% valid tactic :). |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4462
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 21:18:00 -
[65] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Kane Fyea wrote:
One locus grenade and the armor tanker is either 1. Instakilled (Which if this happens then you cannot be revived) or 2. Pretty much dead.
One flux grenade and the entire shield squad is pissing their pants because they're at 20% of their usual HP. Fluxes that can go through cover, btw. And in case you didn't know, brick tanking with shields instead of damage mods can mitigate much of the damage from even Core Locus grenades. It won't be much benefit if you are damage tanking with rep tools on you, so I didn't mention this before.
Fluxes don't kill you.
I have survived MANY fluxes in my shield suit.
It doesn't mean certain death.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
|
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
487
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 21:19:00 -
[66] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:
GTFO, if something requires team work, it should be more powerful, that is all.
Armor benefits more from teamwork than does shields. Agree?
Hence, armor is more powerful.
|
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
487
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 21:21:00 -
[67] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:
Fluxes don't kill you.
I have survived MANY fluxes in my shield suit.
It doesn't mean certain death.
No, fluxes don't kill you when they're tossed willy nilly or just to take out equipment. You can still hide and wait for your shields to regen.
But if someone fluxes you with the intent of rushing your position, then it becomes your 150 HP against my 756 EHP.
Good luck. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4462
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 21:21:00 -
[68] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Cat Merc wrote:
GTFO, if something requires team work, it should be more powerful, that is all.
Armor benefits more from teamwork than does shields. Agree? Hence, armor is more powerful.
No, hence armor is more powerful in a slow moving group that can be easily cut off from their main source of regen by targeting the logi.
No matter how much HP they have, when you have 6 people firing at someone, that someone is dead.
So in short:
Shields - Fast moving hunter packs
Armor - Slow moving blob
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4462
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 21:22:00 -
[69] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Cat Merc wrote:
Fluxes don't kill you.
I have survived MANY fluxes in my shield suit.
It doesn't mean certain death.
No, fluxes don't kill you when they're tossed willy nilly or just to take out equipment. You can still hide and wait for your shields to regen. But if someone fluxes you with the intent of rushing your position, then it becomes your 150 HP against my 756 EHP. Good luck.
Then I fall back, wait two seconds for my regen to kick in, wait a few more seconds, increasing the distance gap between us because of speed, and then come back and rush you.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
|
Kane Fyea
2332
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 21:24:00 -
[70] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Cat Merc wrote:
"If a full squad of shield suits went up against a full squad of armor suits with reppers, which would win?"
If the shield tankers are smart and target the reppers, the battle would be even.
You really think so? REALLY? Shield merc ducks into cover after shields are down. Can't get back into the fight for another 20 seconds. Armor merc yells I NEED REPS! and logi puts away his weapon to repair the merc - taking all of what, 10 seconds? The logi can either choose to triage him and another merc, giving them 70 HP/sec constant regen with the Lai Dai Flux, or switch back to his gun. All the while your squads are exchanging fire, and the armor squad's damage dealt is perhaps 10-15% higher due to their ability to stack damage mods while still maintaining a high buffer. You're trying to put shields at an equal level with armor, probably as a damage control measure to prevent an armor nerf. But armor is better than shields in the current build.
How does this make armor OP? If anything you're saying logi reps are OP. Also can't get back in for 20 seconds? You do know that you don't need 100% HP to re enter a fight right (I would know since I only have a 5 reps/sec)? Also damage mods have the highest CPU and PG requirements out of all the modules in this game I believe. |
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4462
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 21:28:00 -
[71] - Quote
My flow after getting hit in a shield suit:
1. Wait 2 seconds for my shields to start recharging in a small corner
2. Get out of that corner and start circle strafing and looking for baddies trying to rush you
3. When shields at half capacity (usually within 6 seconds) start rushing towards your enemy
Since there is a short travel time, your shields are usually nearly topped off at that point.
In an armor suit alone I can't wait, I just have to hope the enemy sucks at aiming or my team mates come quickly to back me up.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
|
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
488
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 21:35:00 -
[72] - Quote
All right. Done trying to reason with you guys - you win. Shields are the best, they are the way to go. Everyone should tank all shields and regulators. Cal Logi is OP, etc. etc.
Guess that explains why so many people are running Cal Logi with high shields/low armor, instead of Gal Logi with low shields/high armor.
It all makes sense now.
Thanks for the clarification. |
Kane Fyea
2332
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 21:36:00 -
[73] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:All right. Done trying to reason with you guys - you win. Shields are the best, they are the way to go. Everyone should tank all shields and regulators. Cal Logi is OP, etc. etc.
Guess that explains why so many people are running Cal Logi with high shields/low armor, instead of Gal Logi with low shields/high armor.
It all makes sense now.
Thanks for the clarification.
I'm glad I could enlighten you. Have a nice day. |
Assert Dominance
0bamacare
564
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 21:41:00 -
[74] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:I just went to play my Caldari Assault to see what's all the buzz is about.
Besides going 28/1 when I'm half asleep, I also noticed something I never noticed before.
How much armor slows me down!
It might seem on paper tiny, but I definitely feel a pretty huge difference.
It just feels more mobile, I can do better maneuvering and toy with the enemy better (like I like to do).
And I'm not even using complex plates, only two enhanced.
I also didn't have the problem of "oh they are hacking an objective 200m from here... Do I really need to run that? My team will probably get that by the time I'm there".
Especially a problem in PC when points flip flop a lot. (Went 2/0 because I couldn't get to points fast enough to battle)
I suggest you guys go in a full armor suit with two enhanced plates at least, play 10 matches, and then get back to your shield tank suit.
Trust me, you will feel the difference.
you think cal assault is fast? lol. my sprint is never under 9 on my scout gk.0
LOGIC! NO! IT BURRRRNNNSSS!!!!!!
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4463
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 21:54:00 -
[75] - Quote
Assert Dominance wrote:Cat Merc wrote:I just went to play my Caldari Assault to see what's all the buzz is about.
Besides going 28/1 when I'm half asleep, I also noticed something I never noticed before.
How much armor slows me down!
It might seem on paper tiny, but I definitely feel a pretty huge difference.
It just feels more mobile, I can do better maneuvering and toy with the enemy better (like I like to do).
And I'm not even using complex plates, only two enhanced.
I also didn't have the problem of "oh they are hacking an objective 200m from here... Do I really need to run that? My team will probably get that by the time I'm there".
Especially a problem in PC when points flip flop a lot. (Went 2/0 because I couldn't get to points fast enough to battle)
I suggest you guys go in a full armor suit with two enhanced plates at least, play 10 matches, and then get back to your shield tank suit.
Trust me, you will feel the difference. you think cal assault is fast? lol. my sprint is never under 9 on my scout gk.0
Yes but I'm not made of paper tissue :P
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4463
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 21:55:00 -
[76] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:All right. Done trying to reason with you guys - you win. Shields are the best, they are the way to go. Everyone should tank all shields and regulators. Cal Logi is OP, etc. etc.
Guess that explains why so many people are running Cal Logi with high shields/low armor, instead of Gal Logi with low shields/high armor.
It all makes sense now.
Thanks for the clarification.
wut?
I was saying that they're equal, not one is better than the other.
Logis are OP, and the Gal Logi is just the most OP, because it's an armor tanker, so the 5hp/s is the most beneficial to it.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
|
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
119
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 21:58:00 -
[77] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:Cat,
Its probably fair to say you didn't run into a good SCR user when you went 28-1, or I suspect you would have died a few more times.
Then again, I've played against you before, and you're pretty damn good, so who knows.
Have fun....Leadfoot If I did meet a good SCR user then I shouldn't have got that good of a score. Because, ya know, it's an anti shield weapon? Just like there are two anti armor weapons coming soon(not TM)?
Yup, you got it. :) |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4463
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 21:59:00 -
[78] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:Cat,
Its probably fair to say you didn't run into a good SCR user when you went 28-1, or I suspect you would have died a few more times.
Then again, I've played against you before, and you're pretty damn good, so who knows.
Have fun....Leadfoot If I did meet a good SCR user then I shouldn't have got that good of a score. Because, ya know, it's an anti shield weapon? Just like there are two anti armor weapons coming soon(not TM)? Yup, you got it. :)
meow
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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godhands9
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
130
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 22:06:00 -
[79] - Quote
cardio % helps dude level 5 it |
Spaceman-Rob
Resheph Interstellar Strategy
Gallente Federation
243
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 22:06:00 -
[80] - Quote
Great topic, very interesting and entertaining clash of heads. |
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Ranger SnakeBlood
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
233
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 22:16:00 -
[81] - Quote
If you want to see the trade off between armor and shied assualt try the minmatar assualt that one is fast but is even weaker than the caldari suit and cant even do hit and run due to fairly slow shield regen. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4463
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 22:20:00 -
[82] - Quote
godhands9 wrote:cardio % helps dude level 5 it
I did.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4463
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 22:21:00 -
[83] - Quote
Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:If you want to see the trade off between armor and shied assualt try the minmatar assualt that one is fast but is even weaker than the caldari suit and cant even do hit and run due to fairly slow shield regen.
Yeah well it needs help.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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