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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
485
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Posted - 2013.12.06 17:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
Two enhanced armor plates and three enhanced ferroscale plates give you more armor (407 HP) than 5x complex shield extenders do shields (363 HP), with almost no movement penalty (-.05 m/s walking and -.08 m/s sprint), and do so at 45% the CPU cost and 60% the PG cost. Add external rep and you are as fast and more quickly repped than a shield tanker. |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
485
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 18:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:Two enhanced armor plates and three enhanced ferroscale plates give you more armor (407 HP) than 5x complex shield extenders do shields (363 HP), with almost no movement penalty (-.05 m/s walking and -.08 m/s sprint), and do so at 45% the CPU cost and 60% the PG cost. Add external rep and you are as fast and more quickly repped than a shield tanker. EXTERNAL rep. My Caldari has a delay of 2 seconds, and then I have a rep as strong as the old rep tools. Also, Ferroscale plates are extremely heavy on CPU/PG. In general that's a **** fit, don't rely on logis too much, they can die and then you're **** for luck. You might also want to consider that Gallente assaults have 4 slots, not 5.
And Cal Assaults have 4 highs, not 5. I was doing it mainly as a comparison for logis since it's relevant to me.
But my point still stands. You're saying the shield suits get a speed advantage over armor suits, because armor slows you down. But I'm showing that you can get more buffer, no movement penalty, and less CPU/PG usage if you use armor in this way. Use Wiyrkomi Triage Hives and you get delay-free self-rep better than any shield suit.
Not to mention if you draw the attention of logis, you can have multiple beams locked onto you and be pretty much invincible to anything but cores, REs, forge guns, or vehicle hit and runs.
Enhanced ferroscales use 7 more CPU and 1 more PG than enhanced armor plates.
You need to get better logis in your squad, or better yet, a squad of only damage/armor logis, each with a repair tool. It's eye-opening how OP that can be. |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
486
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 18:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:
You do understand Logistics suits are the god suit and assaults can't get even close to the same stats?
You also have a built in 5hp/s rep.
Let's compare apples to apples then. What do you use on your Cal Assault suit? I'll build a Gal Assault suit that's more effective.
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
486
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 18:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:Two enhanced armor plates and three enhanced ferroscale plates give you more armor (407 HP) than 5x complex shield extenders do shields (363 HP), with almost no movement penalty (-.05 m/s walking and -.08 m/s sprint), and do so at 45% the CPU cost and 60% the PG cost. Add external rep and you are as fast and more quickly repped than a shield tanker. But outside of a Logi suit, you don't need any extra modules to regenerate shield. It has natural regen, while armor does not.
For you to regen shields, you need to be out of the line of fire, right? If you get hit while your shield is recharging, the delay is reset, and if you're getting hit and eating into armor, the delay is even longer.
So you don't think an armor tanker can duck back into cover, throw down a Wiyrkomi or Allotek triage hive, and get repped faster than it takes for your full shield to recharge?
If he has competent logis behind him, he doesn't even need to duck back into cover. He can stand in the open, soaking up damage and dealing it at the same time.
When shield tankers' shields are down, they have no choice but to hide and wait. Armor tankers don't need to do this. |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
486
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Posted - 2013.12.06 19:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
Here's my build:
Assault gk.0
2x Complex Light Damage Modifiers
1x Basic Sidearm Damage Modifier
2x Enhanced Ferroscale Plates
2x Enhanced Armor Plates
Duvolle Assault Rifle
Syndicate SMG
M1 Locus Grenades
Wiyrkomi Triage Nanohive
Total HP 764 (150 shields 614 armor). Speed is 4.87 m/s walking, 7.16 m/s sprint (-.13 and -.19 vs. the Cal Assault).
Not positive, but I think that repair hives heal once every second (it might be longer though). But for argument's sake, let's say it's 70 HP/sec. The hive will heal me from zero to full in 8.8 seconds, plus maybe a 4 second delay to deploy it and activate it, so 12.8 seconds total. After 16 seconds, my 150 shield is repped as well.
Even with your regulators, going from zero to full shields will take 20.47 seconds, and you have no means self of armor rep.
Once we engage each other again, I have 70 HP/sec at my disposal whenever I duck back into cover, or if I'm just peeking out of cover. This also gets me triage points if teammates happen to be nearby.
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
486
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 19:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kane Fyea wrote:Luk Manag wrote:Kane Fyea wrote:
2. Woohoo repair nanohives oh wait I have flux grenades that easily destroy any piece of equipment within 6.6m. (Even through walls) Also lets mention how nanohives can't even move.
Repair nanohives and core reppers. Well cool for the armor tanker who is 1. Using teamwork (The most OP way to win) 2. Has a logi who is skilled deeply into repair tools 3. Also still doesn't negate the point of flux grenades just after you flux the hives kill the logi (Which should now have little to no shields).
What if the logi is also armor tanking? What if it's two armor/damage tanked Gal Logis, each with proto reppers, trading off being the slayer?
Good luck fluxing that!
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
486
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 19:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kane Fyea wrote:
Oh cool thing I have flux grenades. Plus armor has no natural rep and with nanohives they're immobile and nanohives are very easily destroyed by shooting, fluxing, or mding. Really if you die to an armor tanked guy on nanos more then once then you're pretty stupid.]
Right, and this is why no one uses nanohives in game - because everyone destroys them so easily.
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
487
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Posted - 2013.12.06 20:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
calvin b wrote:
Who has that much CPU/PG to run ferroscales and a Wirykomi hive plus a decent weapon and side arm. An assault suit has S*** for power compared to a logi. That is the biggest problem with a Log vs. Assault. A Logi can tank and equip more than assault. Assault suits need at least 100 more CPU and for an Armor class like Gal they need at least another 50PG.
Get all your cores up, and your explosives/light weapon to a decent level - maybe 4. The Gal Assault also benefits from the light weapon fitting bonus.
Kane, all I have to say to you is, "easier said than done". Seems to me that by your logic, you should be the most OP person in the game because you can always just sneak up behind someone and shoot them in the back. Get real.
You can't always get close enough to flux nanohives or core people (without dying).
You can't always sneak around someone, particularly with the number of scanners in the game.
You can't always MD because explosives need line of sight on the nano to destroy it.
You can't always kill the logi because smart logis move while repping, and chances are that if you have LOS on the logi, the slayer has LOS on you. |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
487
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 20:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
TERMINALANCE wrote:
you forget all the other factors that affect armor tankers, like grenades and mass drivers and flaylocks, armor tankers are very susceptible to grenades and other explosions, logis aside because they are broken. a shield tanker can pop a grenade on a armor tanker and do a ton of dmg that the armor tanker has little hope of escaping from.
Right, and a single basic flux will wipe out any infantry's shields.
Cat, I added the basic sidearm damage mod because there was nothing else to put there and still have a valid fitting (aside from shield stuff). Better than leaving a slot empty. I also wanted to keep the same weapons/grenade that you had. If I dropped the sidearm mod I can put Core Locus in there instead - would you like that better?
The point of that build was to make an armor tanker fit that A) had more EHP than you and B) had equitable speed. It's not a lone wolf fit, and needs team support to work. Logi squad support would be best.
But let's face it - if you're an armor tanker, you're rocking what, 10-15 HP/sec regen? This isn't going to help you much if you don't have a high enough buffer, and logi reps or external reps are far more efficient than sitting and waiting for 40 seconds.
The bottom line is - if you want to be a solo, lone wolf killer, shields are best. If you have squad support, armor is best.
If a full squad of shield suits went up against a full squad of armor suits with reppers, which would win?
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
487
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 21:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:
"If a full squad of shield suits went up against a full squad of armor suits with reppers, which would win?"
If the shield tankers are smart and target the reppers, the battle would be even.
You really think so? REALLY?
Shield merc ducks into cover after shields are down. Can't get back into the fight for another 20 seconds.
Armor merc yells I NEED REPS! and logi puts away his weapon to repair the merc - taking all of what, 10 seconds? The logi can either choose to triage him and another merc, giving them 70 HP/sec constant regen with the Lai Dai Flux, or switch back to his gun.
All the while your squads are exchanging fire, and the armor squad's damage dealt is perhaps 10-15% higher due to their ability to stack damage mods while still maintaining a high buffer.
You're trying to put shields at an equal level with armor, probably as a damage control measure to prevent an armor nerf. But armor is better than shields in the current build. |
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
487
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Posted - 2013.12.06 21:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kane Fyea wrote:
One locus grenade and the armor tanker is either 1. Instakilled (Which if this happens then you cannot be revived) or 2. Pretty much dead.
One flux grenade and the entire shield squad is pissing their pants because they're at 20% of their usual HP.
Fluxes that can go through cover, btw.
And in case you didn't know, brick tanking with shields instead of damage mods can mitigate much of the damage from even Core Locus grenades. It won't be much benefit if you are damage tanking with rep tools on you, so I didn't mention this before. |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
487
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 21:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:
GTFO, if something requires team work, it should be more powerful, that is all.
Armor benefits more from teamwork than does shields. Agree?
Hence, armor is more powerful.
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
487
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 21:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:
Fluxes don't kill you.
I have survived MANY fluxes in my shield suit.
It doesn't mean certain death.
No, fluxes don't kill you when they're tossed willy nilly or just to take out equipment. You can still hide and wait for your shields to regen.
But if someone fluxes you with the intent of rushing your position, then it becomes your 150 HP against my 756 EHP.
Good luck. |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
488
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 21:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
All right. Done trying to reason with you guys - you win. Shields are the best, they are the way to go. Everyone should tank all shields and regulators. Cal Logi is OP, etc. etc.
Guess that explains why so many people are running Cal Logi with high shields/low armor, instead of Gal Logi with low shields/high armor.
It all makes sense now.
Thanks for the clarification. |
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