DUST Search - Aim Assist

Slag Emberforge wrote:

Well guys I've hit a turning point. I've turned aim assist off just to see how much it really means. (This week)
And actually it makes such a difference I was quite honestly shocked.

With aim assist:
Weapons automatically track at their predefined ranges
Initial accuracy is the most important, to get a lock.
Firing weapons down range in burst makes them terrifyingly accurate (I'm looking at you AR/SCR)
Scouts go down easy mode as the SMG chews them up no problem
KBM rapid strafers are almost unkillable
KDR 7-10 very common up to high teens on good matches.

Without aim assist:
Weapons seem to still snap onto targets initially
As targets strafe it is very difficult (maybe heavy specific) to turn at a fast enough rate to keep up
Scout dancing makes them easily do at least 1/3 more damage before I kill them.
Hip fire AR in CQC is significantly less effective
KBM rapid strafers are almost unkillable
KDR 2-3 good games up to 5-7

Tl;dr
You realize that you were setting up the gun to do most of the work!
Literally aim-assist trains users to get their reticle on the enemy player and dodge around while AA does the brunt of the aiming.

Use of AA encourages bad gun game

With that said, I am curious, how many people out there have the balls to admit that they use aim assist, and what is a way we can fix this problem to make aim assist help keep you on target without enforcing poor gun skill level?

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Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 198	Posted - 2013.12.06 14:31:00 - [1] - Quote Well guys I've hit a turning point. I've turned aim assist off just to see how much it really means. (This week) And actually it makes such a difference I was quite honestly shocked. With aim assist: Weapons automatically track at their predefined ranges Initial accuracy is the most important, to get a lock. Firing weapons down range in burst makes them terrifyingly accurate (I'm looking at you AR/SCR) Scouts go down easy mode as the SMG chews them up no problem KBM rapid strafers are almost unkillable KDR 7-10 very common up to high teens on good matches. Without aim assist: Weapons seem to still snap onto targets initially As targets strafe it is very difficult (maybe heavy specific) to turn at a fast enough rate to keep up Scout dancing makes them easily do at least 1/3 more damage before I kill them. Hip fire AR in CQC is significantly less effective KBM rapid strafers are almost unkillable KDR 2-3 good games up to 5-7 Tl;dr You realize that you were setting up the gun to do most of the work! Literally aim-assist trains users to get their reticle on the enemy player and dodge around while AA does the brunt of the aiming. Use of AA encourages bad gun game With that said, I am curious, how many people out there have the balls to admit that they use aim assist, and what is a way we can fix this problem to make aim assist help keep you on target without enforcing poor gun skill level?
Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 198	Posted - 2013.12.06 14:33:00 - [2] - Quote Reserved
4447 Resolution XIII 909	Posted - 2013.12.06 14:36:00 - [3] - Quote If you care so much, turn it off. Troll, For lifeGÇª But maybe a dragon, uh a bigger dragon.
Rahl Draak Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2013.12.06 14:38:00 - [4] - Quote Welcome to post-Chromosome. Went from a big boy shooter to the same non competitive garbage like CoD and BF. CCP pretty much sold out to attract the 11 year olds.
Keri Starlight 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 1771	Posted - 2013.12.06 14:42:00 - [5] - Quote I've always said I use aim assist and I support aim assist. The gun game feels smoother and less frustrating with it. Aim assist is NOT the problem with AR, they are ridiculous because they have NO recoil! This is a total joke and kills the purpose of more ranged weapons such as burst and tactical rifles. And Laser Rifles. 100% Achura "I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
4447 Resolution XIII 909	Posted - 2013.12.06 14:45:00 - [6] - Quote I don't know how PC gamers can enjoy a FPS sitting up right. Troll, For lifeGÇª But maybe a dragon, uh a bigger dragon.
Rahl Draak Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2013.12.06 14:46:00 - [7] - Quote Without aim assist, there is an actual separation of player skill. If you're good, you're good. If you're bad, you're bad. Aim assist, as in every other console FPS, is there to keep and hold bad players, and the young players. More $$. Devs could give two $hits about how fluid their game plays.
Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 198	Posted - 2013.12.06 15:04:00 - [8] - Quote To be fair is it that linear? Just good and bad? I understand why AA was added -- the discrepancy between FPS Pros or Vets is so disparate that no one would ever stand a chance. I'm lead to the conclusion that we need aim assist, but not in it's current form, it should help you adhere to your targets, but not do all of the work for you.
Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 198	Posted - 2013.12.06 15:06:00 - [9] - Quote Also for all of you people who like making the video demonstrations, I really think there is an increase in turning speed with AA on. I don't think this effects scouts, and maybe only medium frames to a very small degree, but for heavies it definitely feels as if on max acceleration I am turning FAR slower than with AA on. It seems as if AA is forcing my character to turn some speed in addition to my max turn speed when the stick is full tilt. Can anyone confirm this ?
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 644	Posted - 2013.12.06 15:16:00 - [10] - Quote Rahl Draak wrote: Without aim assist, there is an actual separation of player skill. If you're good, you're good. If you're bad, you're bad. Aim assist, as in every other console FPS, is there to keep and hold bad players, and the young players. More $$. Devs could give two $hits about how fluid their game plays. I could kiss you! AA is just a handicap. If you're good you won't need it. Hip fire is equally deadly. I had to get used to it but it didn't take much. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus

Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 200	Posted - 2013.12.06 15:22:00 - [11] - Quote I wracked up 5k kills before I even played without AA, it's really a whole different game. The bit that gets me is AA is so powerful that you never actually get "gun game" with it on. Which leads me to the conclusion that the only way you get good is to turn it off and prepare to die. Also out of curiosity is gun game truly the only thing that matters? Not wining, teamwork, loadouts, or tactics? If aim assist makes the difference between winning and losing, what incentive do I have to Not use it?
Rahl Draak Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 20	Posted - 2013.12.06 15:26:00 - [12] - Quote The irony lies in the fact that between Chromosome and now, the player count has gone down. As per the previous post about "gun game"......that is the only true CORE aspect of a First....Person....Shooter. If you can't get that right, the rest is moot. Hence, what Dust is in its current state. Poo. http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust
Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 200	Posted - 2013.12.06 15:28:00 - [13] - Quote But this is not just a FPS, it is a MMOFPS and I think that makes an important differentiation. The playerbase is naturally far more varied than your typical standard "pick this role and spawn" shooter.
Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 200	Posted - 2013.12.06 15:30:00 - [14] - Quote How about this -- what mechanism would allow us to draw in new players and train them (hand holding or call it what you will) without letting that mechanism do all the work for them?
Rahl Draak Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 20	Posted - 2013.12.06 15:37:00 - [15] - Quote It's not an "MMO" yet. That would require a meaningful connection to Eve, which it is not even remotely close to right now. That won't happen as long as Dust continues to morph itself into a typical console shooter that, as previously stated, caters to kids and casuals. Eve's playerbase is a hardcore playerbase, with the exception of a few high-sec carebears who won't even venture into border null-sec for fear of getting ganked. If Dust were to ever have a real impact in Eve, said Eve playerbase would burn Iceland to the ground the moment they found out that any part of system sov was being determined by a 6th grader. The underlying point of this rant is this: Remove aim assist = removing "Johnny"
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 389	Posted - 2013.12.06 15:39:00 - [16] - Quote Welcome to a big reason why CCP went from over 12k Active player count's in Chromosome to barely over 3.4k players. No one wanted another CoD and just threw up their hand's and left after going through this argument with AA problems in closed beta.. where they removed it there too. In a twitch casual FPS game like CoD, where 1 shot headshot deaths are common... And a death is nothing more then a mark on your "epeen" it kinda makes sense to have an AA . Opposed to DUST where you loose real asset's every time you die and For some Aurum items which cost RL cash... And to have a computer track and do a majority of the aiming for people then make everyone pay for their losses... its such a broken concept that would pisss anyone off. And for the people telling someone to turn it off? That's the same argument people make about using the FOTM. No player in DUST want's a singular build that beats 95% of all others. But if you want to stay competitive and with the times, you HAVE too... Same thing goes for AA, There are a lot more things tied to AA then just a computer tracking system.. It also blow's up hitboxes so your hitting target's that are no where near the sights. CCP designed a huge portion of their Hit Detection fixes completely around AA and with it off... the HD is still kinda abysmal. AA has fundamentally changed DUST 514 for the worse and has caused such a Mass exodus of people after CCP just had two prior. Edit* Worse still is the man hour's that has been spent on Aim assist, With very big problems in DUST that needed more attention. and it's been nothing but a controversial topic from the start you couldn't even get a close to consensus on. There isn't a feature in DUST 514 that has wasted more time then Aim Assist. and really... for what?
IraqiFriendshipExplosive Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 12	Posted - 2013.12.06 15:45:00 - [17] - Quote Slag Emberforge wrote: Well guys I've hit a turning point. I've turned aim assist off just to see how much it really means. (This week) And actually it makes such a difference I was quite honestly shocked. With aim assist: Weapons automatically track at their predefined ranges Initial accuracy is the most important, to get a lock. Firing weapons down range in burst makes them terrifyingly accurate (I'm looking at you AR/SCR) Scouts go down easy mode as the SMG chews them up no problem KBM rapid strafers are almost unkillable KDR 7-10 very common up to high teens on good matches. Without aim assist: Weapons seem to still snap onto targets initially As targets strafe it is very difficult (maybe heavy specific) to turn at a fast enough rate to keep up Scout dancing makes them easily do at least 1/3 more damage before I kill them. Hip fire AR in CQC is significantly less effective KBM rapid strafers are almost unkillable KDR 2-3 good games up to 5-7 Tl;dr You realize that you were setting up the gun to do most of the work! Literally aim-assist trains users to get their reticle on the enemy player and dodge around while AA does the brunt of the aiming. Use of AA encourages bad gun game With that said, I am curious, how many people out there have the balls to admit that they use aim assist, and what is a way we can fix this problem to make aim assist help keep you on target without enforcing poor gun skill level? As a KB/M player I have no aim assist and would not even use it anyway as AA to me is just an aimbot and I wont see it any other way. Aside from that the AA changes killed the game for a lot of scouts... and others I'm sure. Its nice of you to be so frank about it.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1183	Posted - 2013.12.06 15:47:00 - [18] - Quote Hmm I'll switch mines off once I get back on. "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
IraqiFriendshipExplosive Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 12	Posted - 2013.12.06 15:51:00 - [19] - Quote 4447 wrote: I don't know how PC gamers can enjoy a FPS sitting up right. You mean sitting at a desk? Or have I missed your point? I have tried to use a controller to play fps`s and I suck horribly. Granted in a tank or vehicle the control works nice (Apart from mouse aiming tank turrets that's always preferable) I guess that's what 10-15 years of gaming with a mouse since being a kid does to you. I mean would you use a controller on a windows pc to control the mouse? That's what it feels like for me at least. Having said that the KB/M controls in dust are still way off , another thing that pissed people off I know.
Rahl Draak Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 24	Posted - 2013.12.06 15:52:00 - [20] - Quote The Shanghai office has to be a pretty crappy place to work right now. Aim assist is the one major gameplay feature that got overhauled from the ground up after Chromosome, player count takes keeps trailing off like the plane ran out of fuel, and the one giant, pink elephant in the room that no one wants to bring up at meetings.......awwwwwkwaaaaaard

IraqiFriendshipExplosive Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 12	Posted - 2013.12.06 15:52:00 - [21] - Quote Rahl Draak wrote: Welcome to post-Chromosome. Went from a big boy shooter to the same non competitive garbage like CoD and BF. CCP pretty much sold out to attract the 11 year olds. And, in all honesty, failed.
DootDoot Da Short Buss 113	Posted - 2013.12.06 15:56:00 - [22] - Quote Aim Assist ruins what made this game addictive in gameplay *The gungame....* That's what everyone loved about DUST 514 gameplay. *The Gungame* After that the persistent skill system would hook you and other games where pointless to play.. Because playing DUST and improving your character had meaning and other games fell flatt after that. Now there is no gungame and only a persistent skill system. It's why people get bored extremely quick with DUST right now.
Jammeh McJam Robbing The Hood Public Disorder. 49	Posted - 2013.12.06 16:04:00 - [23] - Quote If aim assist was off then caldari and minmatar would stop with the dual tanking because strafing would work and speed would be useful "We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna rape you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
Rahl Draak Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 24	Posted - 2013.12.06 16:07:00 - [24] - Quote Jammeh McJam wrote: If aim assist was off then caldari and minmatar would stop with the dual tanking because strafing would work and speed would be useful The fact that "dual tanking" is encouraged in Dust should make even a novice Eve player facepalm. So much for "same universe".
Jammeh McJam Robbing The Hood Public Disorder. 50	Posted - 2013.12.06 16:18:00 - [25] - Quote Rahl Draak wrote: Jammeh McJam wrote: If aim assist was off then caldari and minmatar would stop with the dual tanking because strafing would work and speed would be useful The fact that "dual tanking" is encouraged in Dust should make even a novice Eve player facepalm. So much for "same universe". If aim assist were to go then ppl could play like their race, not just spamming suits with hp "We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna rape you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
Rahl Draak Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 24	Posted - 2013.12.06 16:28:00 - [26] - Quote .....nevermind.
4447 Resolution XIII 911	Posted - 2013.12.06 16:36:00 - [27] - Quote Jammeh McJam wrote: Rahl Draak wrote: Jammeh McJam wrote: If aim assist was off then caldari and minmatar would stop with the dual tanking because strafing would work and speed would be useful The fact that "dual tanking" is encouraged in Dust should make even a novice Eve player facepalm. So much for "same universe". If aim assist were to go then ppl could play like their race, not just spamming suits with hp People have always spammed suits with shield and armour, i mean shield. Troll, For lifeGÇª But maybe a dragon, uh a bigger dragon.
Soldiersaint Deepspace Digital 608	Posted - 2013.12.06 16:40:00 - [28] - Quote Slag Emberforge wrote: Well guys I've hit a turning point. I've turned aim assist off just to see how much it really means. (This week) And actually it makes such a difference I was quite honestly shocked. With aim assist: Weapons automatically track at their predefined ranges Initial accuracy is the most important, to get a lock. Firing weapons down range in burst makes them terrifyingly accurate (I'm looking at you AR/SCR) Scouts go down easy mode as the SMG chews them up no problem KBM rapid strafers are almost unkillable KDR 7-10 very common up to high teens on good matches. Without aim assist: Weapons seem to still snap onto targets initially As targets strafe it is very difficult (maybe heavy specific) to turn at a fast enough rate to keep up Scout dancing makes them easily do at least 1/3 more damage before I kill them. Hip fire AR in CQC is significantly less effective KBM rapid strafers are almost unkillable KDR 2-3 good games up to 5-7 Tl;dr You realize that you were setting up the gun to do most of the work! Literally aim-assist trains users to get their reticle on the enemy player and dodge around while AA does the brunt of the aiming. Use of AA encourages bad gun game With that said, I am curious, how many people out there have the balls to admit that they use aim assist, and what is a way we can fix this problem to make aim assist help keep you on target without enforcing poor gun skill level? its a video game stop caring about stuff that doesnt even matter. Gun game? how about you just play the game and stop attacking how other people play. I have never in my life seen so much concern for something that has no importance or value.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1580	Posted - 2013.12.06 16:43:00 - [29] - Quote Slag Emberforge wrote: Well guys I've hit a turning point. I've turned aim assist off just to see how much it really means. (This week) And actually it makes such a difference I was quite honestly shocked. With aim assist: Weapons automatically track at their predefined ranges Initial accuracy is the most important, to get a lock. Firing weapons down range in burst makes them terrifyingly accurate (I'm looking at you AR/SCR) Scouts go down easy mode as the SMG chews them up no problem KBM rapid strafers are almost unkillable KDR 7-10 very common up to high teens on good matches. Without aim assist: Weapons seem to still snap onto targets initially As targets strafe it is very difficult (maybe heavy specific) to turn at a fast enough rate to keep up Scout dancing makes them easily do at least 1/3 more damage before I kill them. Hip fire AR in CQC is significantly less effective KBM rapid strafers are almost unkillable KDR 2-3 good games up to 5-7 Tl;dr You realize that you were setting up the gun to do most of the work! Literally aim-assist trains users to get their reticle on the enemy player and dodge around while AA does the brunt of the aiming. Use of AA encourages bad gun game With that said, I am curious, how many people out there have the balls to admit that they use aim assist, and what is a way we can fix this problem to make aim assist help keep you on target without enforcing poor gun skill level? I never used aa in beta but now I do, after getting my a$$ handed to me by sub par scrubs who turned pro over night, I knew I had to. Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. Fix PC lag please CCP.
Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 202	Posted - 2013.12.06 16:44:00 - [30] - Quote I understand the KBM was added to appeal to pc gamers/eve players, but without doubt if KBM works properly it is many times easier to use than a DS. With KBM a very large portion of the playerbase needs AA to be competitive. It sounds like two problems could be eliminated at once, but I'm sure that would garner just as much rage. For now I will try leaving it off for another week or so to see how it pans out, but I play pubs, I can't imagine gimping myself in FW by leaving it off. Empirically it would be the equivalent of throwing suits away.



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