DUST Search - Aim Assist

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

Rahl Draak wrote:

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

Get over it already AA-whiners. Dust is a console shooter, console shooters have aim assist. The AA in Dust is very subtle compared to that on most mainstream shooters despite having controllers competing with M&KB.

Perhaps you should reference page 1 with the playercount looking like the 1929 market crash. Oh, fine, here:

http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust

Out of dozens of factors in the game that change or don't change that might make players leave, absolutely nothing suggests player-count dropped because of specifically AA. Correlation does not imply causation, that's a logical fallacy. The big aim assist changes came 3 months ago with 1.4, and player counts did not start going down faster than usual on 6 month graph, it kept declining at about the same rate.

This is pure BS.

Also your other comment asking for the removal of KB&M is just crazy, its a big part of why a lot of people started playing the game, you would just make player counts go even lower.

EDIT: you clearly don't know what you're doing in a debate if you thought that graph proved anything, so I'm just done with this argument. Bye.


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Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 389	Posted - 2013.12.06 15:39:00 - [1] - Quote Welcome to a big reason why CCP went from over 12k Active player count's in Chromosome to barely over 3.4k players. No one wanted another CoD and just threw up their hand's and left after going through this argument with AA problems in closed beta.. where they removed it there too. In a twitch casual FPS game like CoD, where 1 shot headshot deaths are common... And a death is nothing more then a mark on your "epeen" it kinda makes sense to have an AA . Opposed to DUST where you loose real asset's every time you die and For some Aurum items which cost RL cash... And to have a computer track and do a majority of the aiming for people then make everyone pay for their losses... its such a broken concept that would pisss anyone off. And for the people telling someone to turn it off? That's the same argument people make about using the FOTM. No player in DUST want's a singular build that beats 95% of all others. But if you want to stay competitive and with the times, you HAVE too... Same thing goes for AA, There are a lot more things tied to AA then just a computer tracking system.. It also blow's up hitboxes so your hitting target's that are no where near the sights. CCP designed a huge portion of their Hit Detection fixes completely around AA and with it off... the HD is still kinda abysmal. AA has fundamentally changed DUST 514 for the worse and has caused such a Mass exodus of people after CCP just had two prior. Edit* Worse still is the man hour's that has been spent on Aim assist, With very big problems in DUST that needed more attention. and it's been nothing but a controversial topic from the start you couldn't even get a close to consensus on. There isn't a feature in DUST 514 that has wasted more time then Aim Assist. and really... for what?
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 390	Posted - 2013.12.06 17:55:00 - [2] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: DootDoot wrote: Dexter307 wrote: You can remove AA when you remove KB/M You don't think having a bunch of Aim assisted people barely aiming to kill you... not even having to try to aim better when you move at all.. And that's better for you? and someone with their own ability and Mouse is worse for you? At some point you gotta look at this objectively. Without AA you are FORCED to by a KB/M to be competitive. Not only that but dust has weak aim assist compared to most console shooters. I use DS3 and I notice very little difference between it on and off unless my target is far away (100M+) Your serious right? because i think i could max out the characters in a forum post naming off players that where DS3 are DS3 was always DS3 and still kicked the **** out of KBM players like it was a joke in Chromosome. These players couldn't even tell you the difference between KBM and DS3... it didn't matter.. I'll bet many of the players you think are KBM are and have always been DS3 users. It wasn't like this in chromosome in corporation battles, It wasn't like this in Uprising 1.0 with PC 1.1,1.2,1.3.... So i don't get where you think the only way you could compete was with a KBM because this isn't even remotely true 90% of the players where DS3 and 89% of them couldn't guess 50% accurately what control interface a Merc uses... Straight up propaganda for a feature that has ruined DUST.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 390	Posted - 2013.12.06 18:00:00 - [3] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Get over it already AA-whiners. Dust is a console shooter, console shooters have aim assist. The AA in Dust is very subtle compared to that on most mainstream shooters despite having controllers competing with M&KB. I don't get your obsessions in being being super-1337-hardc0re-no-aim-assist, this isn't MLG. Some console shooters have aim-assist. Subtle Clueless much sigh....
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 390	Posted - 2013.12.06 18:10:00 - [4] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Rahl Draak wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Get over it already AA-whiners. Dust is a console shooter, console shooters have aim assist. The AA in Dust is very subtle compared to that on most mainstream shooters despite having controllers competing with M&KB. Perhaps you should reference page 1 with the playercount looking like the 1929 market crash. Oh, fine, here: http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust Out of dozens of factors in the game that change or don't change that might make players leave, absolutely nothing suggests player-count dropped because of specifically AA. Correlation does not imply causation, that's a logical fallacy. The big aim assist changes came 3 months ago with 1.4, and player counts did not start going down faster than usual on 6 month graph, it kept declining at about the same rate. This is pure BS. Also your other comment asking for the removal of KB&M is just crazy, its a big part of why a lot of people started playing the game, you would just make player counts go even lower. EDIT: you clearly don't know what you're doing in a debate if you thought that graph proved anything, so I'm just done with this argument. Bye. I miss alot of my friends that will never get back on DUST because of that specific factor. there has been hundread's of posts and/or mentions conveying people leaving specifically for that issue... And those are the VERY VERY small percentge that would bother say or get on and post anything at all without just leaving. The amount of old account's that where active dropped significantly in 1.4, Though the amount of new account's increased we haven't been able to retain many of those new players coming into the DUST market. We even have incentives for old inactive account's to log back on that are pretty significant with very little people biteing. People went through much worse issues in Uprising 1.0 launch witht he game state... 1.4 was a really good patch.. it went smooth.. wasn't to big not to ambitious.. But the combo of AA and complete ruination of the Scout class started to hurt player count's signifcantly right there.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 391	Posted - 2013.12.06 19:19:00 - [5] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: DootDoot wrote: Dexter307 wrote: You can remove AA when you remove KB/M Dexter307 wrote: Without AA you are FORCED to by a KB/M to be competitive. Not only that but dust has weak aim assist compared to most console shooters. I use DS3 and I notice very little difference between it on and off unless my target is far away (100M+) Dexter307 wrote: If you don't like it then leave. No one likes people who whine about things that don't need to change. Sad thing is DUST has existed longer without Aim Assist then it has with it. And has out performed the active players DUST has had with aim assist. And general Common Sense would think everyone aiming for themselfs would be more fun then everyone having super aim. (Even GTA CREW battles is Free Aim only) Sadly this is the response even respected Forum posters like Dexter have with it. When did it not have Aim assist? I've only been here since early chromosome. Aim assist was completely turned off through the beginnings of uprising if i wasn't so lazy i could find actual quotes from CCP staff saying this. Chromosome everything but LDS centering was off. (AA got taken off after excessive forum rant's.) Aim Assist never got re-introduced until Uprising 1.4 which was September? DUST 514 officially launched Uprising March 14th.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 392	Posted - 2013.12.06 19:42:00 - [6] - Quote Rahl Draak wrote: It's important to note, that before KAGEHOSHI took his ball and went home, he mentioned that there were an entire host of other issues that could possibly be tied to a declining playerbase and the current build's woes. I'm merely saying that aim assist by itself, because it is a CORE mechanic of a FPS, has rendered the game incompatible with respect to merging with eve someday. Whiiiiiiiiiiiiiich......was the whole point of Dust 514 in the first place. You simply cannot have kids and casuals dictating even the smallest of nullsec sov. It is going to require players with the same engagement level as eve. Dust is catering to a crowd that will never offer that. He can say that. Regardless of the billions factors that could happen in the world. September saw one of the biggest declines in player base since uprising launch. You could blame summer vacations ending like everyone did at the time. But hindsight and months later in the midst of another major holiday season.. the player base now? makes the average person that's been here since closed beta almost tear up a little. There is a massive problem right now with any sense of achievement in killing someone... And no matter how someone want's to argue with me(not saying you Rahl) *It isn't because bullet's are actually going where people are shooting them.*
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 403	Posted - 2013.12.07 16:54:00 - [7] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Because, if you take a looky at both many "Ima leaving!" threads pre 1.4, and the critics, you what they all HATED? The Aiming. If have ANY other ideas to make aiming simple enough so everybody who wants to play could, then please, let me know. Like I've said. Dust has existed a lot longer without aim assist then it has with it. And been a lot more successful without it. Throughout uprising launch all Control interfaces had massive issues, mainly due to the acceleration curve CCP installed onto DS3's that would speed up joystick response inconsistently, It hurt Both M/KB and DS3. The input's have been tweaked so they are tolerable now, and further more we just got a massive Hit Detection buff we have been asking for since Uprising 1.0. In the beginning's of Uprising all control interfaces where extremely hard to use in DUST 514, coupled with bullets rarely going where they where shot or rarely registering on target. Now we have decent control interfaces(with more improvement's ahead) and Bullets that register and hit targets your actually shooting. Aim Assist was a good band aid from September To November but it's now doing more harm then good.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 409	Posted - 2013.12.08 01:28:00 - [8] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: KA24DERT wrote: A slight tangent, but it must be said: KB/M DOES NOT TURN A SCRUB INTO A GOD. And there are plenty of scrubs playing PC shooters to prove that. If KB/M made the huge difference everyone claims, then everyone would flock to it, just like they do to every other FOTM. Auto Aim is a terrible idea, and KB/M being present in this game has no bearing on it. Just like in any other game, you balance around the maximum potential of something, be it fully skilled suits/ships, or input methods. It is undeniable that mouse and keyboard are a superior control method to joysticks on the DS3 for FPSes. So how do you balance it? How do you balance a precision controller (mouse/keyboard) versus an acceleration based one? You either give the DS3 aim assist or you set acceleration limits on the mouse/kb. You guys whined your arses off about the turn limits, so no we have aim assist. EDIT: Just to make it clear I REALLY do not like aim assist EDIT 2: Upon further thinking, I could get down on removing aim assist for all hipfire. At least there is somewhat of a consensus there is an issue with the "Aim Assist" feature in it's current state.