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[request] Scouts should share passive scan results with their squad

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SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 548	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:03:00 - [1] - Quote Passive scan is neat, but for most suits it's stupidly small. Except for scouts, except since it isn't shared with the squad, it's not so useful (scouts being squishy etc) If scouts could share scan results with their squad, then 1. it would encourage them to fit range extenders and/or precision amps in some situations (up from 'never') 2. They would find a role separate from 'lolscouts just use active scanner', since they don't let reds know they turned up on scan 3. They would reclaim the equipment slot that may have been an active scanner 4. scout suits actually have a scouting bonus Discuss. "Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)" GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 140	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:05:00 - [2] - Quote Message from Godin: You already know my answer
Draco Cerberus Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 563	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:15:00 - [3] - Quote Scouts can share scans if they do it like everyone else Logi God in the Flesh
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 548	Posted - 2013.12.05 01:23:00 - [4] - Quote Roger Cordill wrote: Message from Godin: You already know my answer Yeah, Godin was quite supportive of this idea on IRC. "Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)" GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
Samantha Hunyz Legions of Infinite Dominion 29	Posted - 2013.12.05 03:16:00 - [5] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Passive scan is neat, but for most suits it's stupidly small. Except for scouts, except since it isn't shared with the squad, it's not so useful (scouts being squishy etc) If scouts could share scan results with their squad, then 1. it would encourage them to fit range extenders and/or precision amps in some situations (up from 'never') 2. They would find a role separate from 'lolscouts just use active scanner', since they don't let reds know they turned up on scan 3. They would reclaim the equipment slot that may have been an active scanner 4. scout suits actually have a scouting bonus Discuss. Add in Intel kill assist points. Also, show the squad those I'm tracking in my sights for the same effect. This is what scouts do, gather Intel and give it to those that need it. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 549	Posted - 2013.12.05 03:36:00 - [6] - Quote Samantha Hunyz wrote: Add in Intel kill assist points. Also, show the squad those I'm tracking in my sights for the same effect. This is what scouts do, gather Intel and give it to those that need it. That is a good idea and you should feel good. (edit: not 100% sure about intel assists just for looking at someone, but definitely intel assists for passive scanning) "Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)" GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 245	Posted - 2013.12.05 06:05:00 - [7] - Quote All suits should share passive scans in my opinion. Scouts would just be better at it.
Draco Cerberus Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 564	Posted - 2013.12.05 06:13:00 - [8] - Quote So I can ditch my active scanner that I dumped SP into and waste a slot on most suits for? No I don't think so, scouts can share scan data if they just do like the rest of us, whip out a scanner and spin in a circle so everyone can see that flashlight bobbing, there should be some risk involved. Logi God in the Flesh
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 549	Posted - 2013.12.05 06:17:00 - [9] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: So I can ditch my active scanner that I dumped SP into and waste a slot on most suits for? No I don't think so, scouts can share scan data if they just do like the rest of us, whip out a scanner and spin in a circle so everyone can see that flashlight bobbing, there should be some risk involved. Yeah I'm not seeing much risk in doing a 360 from 150m away, compared to getting within 35m of the enemy wearing a suit with no HP. "Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)" GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 470	Posted - 2013.12.05 12:18:00 - [10] - Quote Except you coud fit a proto scout with complex precision enhancers/range amplifiers and get 100m passive scan range with 30db scan fidelity, then sit in a tank and act as passive scanner for anyone in the range of your minimap, all the while farming intel assists from kills.

SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 551	Posted - 2013.12.05 13:08:00 - [11] - Quote Not that passive scans would work inside a tank, but that's not actually any worse than an active scanner now. "Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)" GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 245	Posted - 2013.12.05 13:57:00 - [12] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Except you coud fit a proto scout with complex precision enhancers/range amplifiers and get 100m passive scan range with 30db scan fidelity, then sit in a tank and act as passive scanner for anyone in the range of your minimap, all the while farming intel assists from kills. This could be an issue. Just turn off passive scans while in a vehicle though. I'm not sure whether you should get scan assists for passive scanning though. It probably wouldn't be game breaking so it could just be tried out and then turned off/tweaked if it doesn't work right.
Samantha Hunyz Legions of Infinite Dominion 38	Posted - 2013.12.05 21:25:00 - [13] - Quote Garth Mandra wrote: Sana Rayya wrote: Except you coud fit a proto scout with complex precision enhancers/range amplifiers and get 100m passive scan range with 30db scan fidelity, then sit in a tank and act as passive scanner for anyone in the range of your minimap, all the while farming intel assists from kills. This could be an issue. Just turn off passive scans while in a vehicle though. I'm not sure whether you should get scan assists for passive scanning though. It probably wouldn't be game breaking so it could just be tried out and then turned off/tweaked if it doesn't work right. I agree it would have to be watched closely and have a patch on standby to turn off the wps if need be. Being inside of vehicles should not scan as well. @sana: If a gallente scout (the only scout that could fit there suit the way you mentioned) did this, their combat efficiency would be null. I don't see a problem with this. A logistics can be a human vending machine spamming a whole map and have a massive pool of hps. The scout at least has a trade off for doing passive scans extremely well (little hps and little damage). When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Samantha Hunyz Legions of Infinite Dominion 38	Posted - 2013.12.05 21:33:00 - [14] - Quote As far as the down the scope was, I don't see this as an issue. I personally use a sniper rifle , and spotting enemies in my scope should relay that information to my squad. This also reduces my chances of scoring a kill myself. It is better that my squad knows they are being flanked, but a little compensation for the information should be rewarded. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Sargon Akkadi Ordus Trismegistus 20	Posted - 2013.12.05 23:22:00 - [15] - Quote Scouts haring passive scan would certainly give them a very defined role advantage on the field. Sharing target scan would be really useful as well. I even think just sharing target scan would be an interesting compromise: Scouts as Spotters. I think the Intel Assist awards may be a bit much on passive scanning, although (in a hypothetical "target scan sharing" scenario) it could be an "active" WP award if it comes from spotting (target scan sharing). Again, in that scenario giving the award only if the target is currently "spotted" for a "confirmed kill". Just brainstorming, though, still an open mind here.
Ivy Zalinto Bobbit's Hangmen 100	Posted - 2013.12.06 01:15:00 - [16] - Quote Where i love this idea, it would be a bad thing and people would shout nerf again from the hills. My scan range is like...31 or something like that now that I have range amp maxed on my scout. And my precision will detect quite a bit unless your heavily dampened. Combine that with a complex range amp and your never leaving radar from me being a passive hunter. Idk, good idea in theory but in application this could get us nerfed when we really need buffs Dedicated scout. Player bodyguard Pistol supremacy.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 556	Posted - 2013.12.06 01:22:00 - [17] - Quote People would really shout nerf that scouts are OP for scouting? "Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)" GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
Samantha Hunyz Legions of Infinite Dominion 42	Posted - 2013.12.06 01:30:00 - [18] - Quote Ivy Zalinto wrote: Where i love this idea, it would be a bad thing and people would shout nerf again from the hills. My scan range is like...31 or something like that now that I have range amp maxed on my scout. And my precision will detect quite a bit unless your heavily dampened. Combine that with a complex range amp and your never leaving radar from me being a passive hunter. Idk, good idea in theory but in application this could get us nerfed when we really need buffs You must be joking. With your suit layout to achieve what you said, would be like 3 rounds from most weapons. Now squad scan is down, you a death, and easy wps for the person that killed you. How in the frack can than be op? How could any cry about this being op be considered serious? When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Mobius Wyvern Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 3975	Posted - 2013.12.06 02:11:00 - [19] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Passive scan is neat, but for most suits it's stupidly small. Except for scouts, except since it isn't shared with the squad, it's not so useful (scouts being squishy etc) If scouts could share scan results with their squad, then 1. it would encourage them to fit range extenders and/or precision amps in some situations (up from 'never') 2. They would find a role separate from 'lolscouts just use active scanner', since they don't let reds know they turned up on scan 3. They would reclaim the equipment slot that may have been an active scanner 4. scout suits actually have a scouting bonus Discuss. Add to that being able to use the Active Scanner for the entire team. If you do both of those, they'd have a far better defined role. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 556	Posted - 2013.12.06 05:58:00 - [20] - Quote Quote: 15:45[CCP]Wolfman >the scout scan sharing is an interesting idea 15:45[CCP]Wolfman >ill nention it to remnant Fingers crossed. "Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)" GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace

SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 562	Posted - 2013.12.06 06:45:00 - [21] - Quote Samantha Hunyz wrote: As far as the down the scope was, I don't see this as an issue. I personally use a sniper rifle , and spotting enemies in my scope should relay that information to my squad. This also reduces my chances of scoring a kill myself. It is better that my squad knows they are being flanked, but a little compensation for the information should be rewarded. This would encourage scout snipers (most snipers at the moment are logi or heavy just for the HP, so this would be a nice perk for the light frames) "Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)" GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 562	Posted - 2013.12.06 14:28:00 - [22] - Quote In fact, isn't the sniper starter suit a light frame? "Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)" GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 190	Posted - 2013.12.06 23:51:00 - [23] - Quote Ummm...we already discussed this over in the scout registry a while back, and I think the general consensus was concern about our stealth going to **** because there's likely to be a gaggle of mercs closing on your position, and alerting whoever you might be stalking. So, if this was implemented, for the love of scouts, allow us to disable or enable it, or somehow press a button that shares the data when we decide we want to. The last thing I want is one or more non-dampened, non-stealthy, AR-toting team-mates running gung-ho to the target(s) I'm stalking, alerting them and most likely giving away my position.
Cass Caul 447	Posted - 2013.12.07 00:27:00 - [24] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: In fact, isn't the sniper starter suit a light frame? In the earlier releases it was the Recon fitting, and more later the Arbiter. The 4 Archetype roles no longer exist. the Sniper [STARTER FIT] is your race's MLT Medium Frame with a MLT Sniper Rifle. And in Chromosome the Sniper [STARTER FIT] was a MLT Assault suit with a MLT Sniper Rifle +Éß¦ëddGêÇ -çou -Äll+É-çoGö¦ A girl, on the internet?! I roll to disbelieve.
Samantha Hunyz Legions of Infinite Dominion 47	Posted - 2013.12.07 00:39:00 - [25] - Quote IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Ummm...we already discussed this over in the scout registry a while back, and I think the general consensus was concern about our stealth going to **** because there's likely to be a gaggle of mercs closing on your position, and alerting whoever you might be stalking. So, if this was implemented, for the love of scouts, allow us to disable or enable it, or somehow press a button that shares the data when we decide we want to. The last thing I want is one or more non-dampened, non-stealthy, AR-toting team-mates running gung-ho to the target(s) I'm stalking, alerting them and most likely giving away my position. We are discussing squad vision, not team. You choose who you squad with, so I don't see your issue with this as relevant. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 2663	Posted - 2013.12.07 01:39:00 - [26] - Quote If I want to share what I see, I'll paint it with an Active Scanner. Last time we Scouts debated the idea ... which we debated in length ... the majority were opposed unless we could toggle it off/on (on for PC, otherwise Off). Quite a few of us rely on sneak attacks, which tend to involve sneaking up directly behind a target. Timing is everything, and you don't want your target getting jumpy. Teammates (even squaddies) tend to move in the direction of the nearest red and fire without second thought. Bad news for us Assassin types who may be stalking or closing gap when the "help" arrives. Lots of non-Scouts supported this "Scout Buff" last round. Why not, right? We shouldn't be trying to kill things anyway, and its our job to run around and Recon for AR / ScR 1000HP "Slayer" types. LOL
Cass Caul 448	Posted - 2013.12.07 02:40:00 - [27] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: So I can ditch my active scanner that I dumped SP into and waste a slot on most suits for? No I don't think so, scouts can share scan data if they just do like the rest of us, whip out a scanner and spin in a circle so everyone can see that flashlight bobbing, there should be some risk involved. DJINN Jecture has a very god point here. The only exception is that (A) For a Scout to even approach the capacity of an ADV Scanner they would need to dedicate all 5 slots they have. And still it falls short of the ADV scanner. (B) this is only possible on a Scout gk.0 And takes more than double in SP what your Active Scanner costs. Scout gk.0 with Scan Precision V and a single complex Precision Enhancer equipped: 45-10%-20% = 450.90.8= 32.4 So to get your Scan Precision down to 36, the value you would need would be lvl 3 with an enhanced precision enhancer The SP value so far? Active Scanner: Dropsuit Upgrades I(6220), Dropsuit Core Upgrades II (49740), Active Scanner III (205200); 261160 SP Precison Enhancer: Dropsuit Upgrades I (6220), Dropsuit Core Upgrades I (12440), Dropsuit Electronics I (31100), Precision Enhancement III (205200); 254960 SP Alright, so for a Scout suit to be able to get the same precision as the ADV active scanner it cost them 6200 SP less. Now, let's talk about range. The range on all 3 ADV scanners in 100m. The maximum range a Scout gk.0 suit can achieve is 102.88. 16 meter base on Scouts, 50% bonus from Gallente Scout Ops V, 50% bonus from Range Amplification V, +185.78% from 4 complex range amplifiers (these are subject to stacking penalties BTW) So, lets look at the SP values now. Because you need all 4 slots and the full skill bonuses, you need to have a Gallente Scout Operation V, a total skill investment of 2.7 million SP, while the active scanner can be placed on any suit. On top of that it also needs Range Amplification V. SP values ADV Active Scanner, 261160 SP SP Values of scou with 100m range: dropsuit command II, Gallente Light Frame Operations III, Gallente Scout Operations V, Dropsuit Upgrades I, Dropsuit Electronics I, Range Amplification V. It must be hard, being a Canadian stoner, math just happens to be too hard for you. I mean you can't even see the SP disparity between a scout needing over three and a half million skill points, using up all 5 slots on a dropsuit, to be equal to the limited amount of SP necessary for an ADV Active Scanner that only takes up a single equipment slot and can be put on ANY dropsuit. Oh, and you can bring your Active Scanning up to level 5 and have the option for more range (200m) or to have better precision than a Gallente Scout can ever possibly have. 28 compared to 30.2 or 15 compared to 30.2 +Éß¦ëddGêÇ -çou -Äll+É-çoGö¦ A girl, on the internet?! I roll to disbelieve.
Cass Caul 448	Posted - 2013.12.07 02:48:00 - [28] - Quote Garth Mandra wrote: Sana Rayya wrote: Except you coud fit a proto scout with complex precision enhancers/range amplifiers and get 100m passive scan range with 30db scan fidelity, then sit in a tank and act as passive scanner for anyone in the range of your minimap, all the while farming intel assists from kills. This could be an issue. Just turn off passive scans while in a vehicle though. I'm not sure whether you should get scan assists for passive scanning though. It probably wouldn't be game breaking so it could just be tried out and then turned off/tweaked if it doesn't work right. Tested this out myself. My suit's passive scanning did no work from with an LAV, HAV, or Dropship +Éß¦ëddGêÇ -çou -Äll+É-çoGö¦ A girl, on the internet?! I roll to disbelieve.
Samantha Hunyz Legions of Infinite Dominion 47	Posted - 2013.12.07 03:50:00 - [29] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: The last time we Scouts debated the idea ... which we debated at length ... the majority were opposed unless we could toggle it off/on (ON for PC, otherwise OFF). Quite a few of us rely on sneak attacks, which tend to involve sneaking up directly behind a target. Timing is everything, and you don't want your target getting jumpy. Teammates (even squaddies) tend to move in the direction of the nearest red and fire without second thought. Bad news for us Assassin types who may be stalking or closing gap when the "help" arrives. If MedFrames must have this of us, then let them have it. But don't call it a "Scout Buff" ... this is not what we've waited for. Permit us to toggle it off and on; it'll likely do us more harm than good. I expected better from you Shotty. I liked this idea before the black eagle event. I like it even more now. I would run in a squad with a logi throwing up an active scan, my team would engage. During the firefight, I could easily slip behind the reds and go down the-áline with my Shotty getting multiple easy kills in a row. This is exactly how it will help you if we scouts share info with our squad. We would scan the enemy on approach of their rear. Our squad engages from the front holding their attention. As for an on/off button, simply don't squad up. If you must play as an individual and do not wish to contribute, do so like every everyone else does and go solo. Being selfish and trying to be a solo assassin but in squad makes little sense to me. Trying to prevent scouts from being able to contribute in a way that makes sense is selfish. This is not a medium suit buff, it is a teamwork buff. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Samantha Hunyz Legions of Infinite Dominion 50	Posted - 2013.12.07 08:44:00 - [30] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Quote: 15:45[CCP]Wolfman >the scout scan sharing is an interesting idea 15:45[CCP]Wolfman >ill nention it to remnant Fingers crossed. Don't know where this was pulled, but I'm guessing irc. I wish ccp spent as much time here as they do on there. That way we don't get some twisted half assed monstrosity that nobody wants. I feel as though that take a partial idea from the players without actually looking at our input, and hand it of to some coder with just a basic outline. From there it's finger crossed. If they get it wrong, it's just put back at the end of the line to be fixed soon. I don't mean to rant on ccp, as I do enjoy this game and appreciate all of their hard work and support they put into this game. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.



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