I expected better from you Shotty. I liked this idea before the black eagle event. I like it even more now. I would run in a squad with a logi throwing up an active scan, my team would engage. During the firefight, I could easily slip behind the reds and go down the-áline with my Shotty getting multiple easy kills in a row. This is exactly how it will help you if we scouts share info with our squad. We would scan the enemy on approach of their rear. Our squad engages from the front holding their attention.

As for an on/off button, simply don't squad up. If you must play as an individual and do not wish to contribute, do so like every everyone else does and go solo. Being selfish and trying to be a solo assassin but in squad makes little sense to me. Trying to prevent scouts from being able to contribute in a way that makes sense is selfish. This is not a medium suit buff, it is a teamwork buff.

Passive scan is neat, but for most suits it's stupidly small.

Except for scouts, except since it isn't shared with the squad, it's not so useful (scouts being squishy etc)

If scouts could share scan results with their squad, then

1. it would encourage them to fit range extenders and/or precision amps in some situations (up from 'never')
2. They would find a role separate from 'lolscouts just use active scanner', since they don't let reds know they turned up on scan
3. They would reclaim the equipment slot that may have been an active scanner
4. scout suits actually have a scouting bonus

Discuss.

You can call it want you want but this would limit several play styles and random squading, if I want to broadcast a location I use verbal communication which is sufficient for those who are close enough to understand it and provides it when I want it (or I use an active scanner, which is one of the cheapest equipment items out there). But having a red revealed, teammates automatically and non tactfully start assaulting it, which may alert the general hoard of enemies nearby stirring up the hornets nest when I am next to it and I am the one that gets stung vs being able to take out the peripherals before anybody is notified and verbally have teammates approach.

Also most scouts are not with the pack per say, but are off with A) other scouts or B) another person, which none of these scenarios needs the feature you suggest.

Also I may just be having fun joining random squads and may not want to communicate that kind of information which may in fact hurt me.

I'd rather have the passive scanner have strengths that differ from the active scanner, not a mirror which then literally makes the active scanner a "scout in a pocket"

You so can throw me in that group of naysayers.

As cool as this seems on paper it only benefits one suit type by turning them into a piece of equipment rather than giving them a combat role.

*** MedFrames want a role for Scouts, so long as its a Support Role. Tsk Tsk Tsk. ***

Why would MedFrames want Moody -- a lowly Scout -- to have a combat role?
Scouts aren't supposed to be killing things. Those points are supposed to be for EZ Mode, Moody.
As a Scout, its our job to make EZ Mode easier.
So "buff" we've waited six months for should involve something that benefits EZ Mode.



There's a 250 page thread somewhere on these Forums with lots of good ideas for fixing Scouts.
Yet somehow "Scout Fix" suggestions cooked up by EZ Mode are what catches Wolfman's eye.
Blows my mind.

Minmatar scouts say, "what good does this do me?"

This would just be another buff to gallente, who are the recon based scouts. Minmatar which are assassins and combat support have zero use for this.

As cool as this seems on paper it only benefits one suit type by turning them into a piece of equipment rather than giving them a combat role.

I don't believe the OP meant this as a scout fix, but more of an idea, but yeah as far as scout utility the gal scout would be the only one really to provide any great utility with the suggested feature. Also non combat areas are a great way to expand scouts, but it should be passive aggressive support via ewar. Our current flanking abilities plus debuffing would be a great way to take the scout as the anti logi.

Noncombat areas.

I whole heartedly disagree with tailoring this class to spend more time out of action and hiding than we already do. This sort of thing is a job for equipment not a person.

How if implemented this would be used tactically::

1. Send in scout ahead of assaults and logis.
2. Make scout hide to ensure he doesn't die so you have vision throughout engagement.
3. That's it.

Yeah that's it. Nope. Don't think so. Myself and many people didn't waste months of their lives to be eventually used by their team like a piece of equipment because that is what would happen. It's nice on paper but it is not what the class needs. Tacnet is OP as it is. Scanners are OP as it is. We DO NOT need another mechanic to make stealth and flanking even more difficult. We do not need another bonus in areas that will make a scout not at all fun to play.

While many might see this as an "added bonus" for scouts it isn't. It's condemning them to a life of hiding in corners and on roofs.

*** MedFrames want a role for Scouts, so long as its a Support Role. Tsk Tsk Tsk. ***

Why would MedFrames want you, Moody -- a lowly Scout -- to have a combat role?
Scouts aren't supposed to be killing things. Those points are supposed to be for EZ Mode, Moody.
The Scout Buff and Role -- we've waited six months -- should involve something that benefits EZ Mode.

Its the Scout's job to make EZ Mode easier, Moody. Stop being selfish.

---

There's a 250 page thread somewhere on these Forums with lots of good ideas for fixing Scouts.
Yet "Scout Fix" suggestions cooked up by EZ Mode are the ones which catch the Wolfman's eye.
:: Mind Blown ::

How about instead of blaming this on medium suit players (could have swore I was a scout)and just saying no its no good, you give constructive feedback.

I know you're a Scout, Sam.
And I've already told you that we debated this at length.
How about instead of stomping your feet, you go out and find the thread.

The vast majority of Scouts are not in favor of this idea.
Most of the folks who favor the idea are not Scouts.
These are facts worthy of your consideration.

I still have the thread, and all the arguments against this is the same ones here. The facts are that many did oppose this, but the reasoning was minimal. Elaborate as to why this is bad is a better tactic than just stomping you foot and saying "no I don't like this".

You're gonna make for a fine Forum Warrior, Samantha Hunyz.
Even when you're dead wrong, you make it look so good :-)
You must promise to continue doing this for Scouts, long after I've left.

Not gonna argue this one further, other than to say ...
We're a low priority. We'll get one tweak a year.
When it comes, I hope it'll be something useful.
Here are some of the useful tweaks Scouts have proposed:

* Add Hi / Lo Slot + PG / CPU
* Add EQ Slot + PG / CPU
* Backstab Damage Multiplier
* Built-in Active Camo / Cloak
* Faster Movement / Sprint / Strafe Speed
* Better Scan Statistics (Profile, Precision, Range)
* Better Racial Bonuses
* Improved Mobility (jump, fall, stamina, etc)
* Improved Evasives (hit-box adjustment, auto-aim resistance)

^ Find the ones that EZ Mode won't sign off on. Those are the ones we want.

I agree with you on all points on this. This topic is just an idea to give scouts a role, which I believe all suits should have. This however does little to nothing towards actually fixing the scout issues. Any of the problems you point out if fixed would be a breath of life back into us scouts. The only reason I am advocating this over the real problems is that the coding for this is already in place in a dormant state. The code can be easily adjusted with minimal work on ccp's part. From there they can take the time to rewrite or create new code that actual makes the suit viable.

We are discussing squad vision, not team. You choose who you squad with, so I don't see your issue with this as relevant.

So far all the counter arguments have been selfish in nature and blames others for no reason. I don't mind criticism if it is well thought out.

We are discussing squad vision, not team. You choose who you squad with, so I don't see your issue with this as relevant.

A scout runs into a taken objective area and finds targets so your team can see them, then begins to take them out from the back.

Your squad moves in from the front while they are occupied by trying to find the scout.

Boom, scouts have a viable role.

Seriously guys, you are a speedy little scouts, with a second rate scan ability compared to the active scanner. Do you really believe that your squad is going to see the one or two red dots on your radar and drop everything to go get those out of the way, middle of nowhere red dot or two? Let's say that they do., would those red dots even be there by the time they started moving? Those times that your radar is actually full of reds, that is when and where your squad should be. And guess what, I highly doubt you are alive by the time your squad even gets there unless your a part of the 1% elite, because you are wearing a scout little hp suit.

IMHO, it seems as though most of you scouts will not be happy until you can be one man armies. You believe you are entitled to have a suit that can slay every others with 1HKs, and take on the whole enemy by yourself. I will no longer continue to help this is or any other scout issues. Even though the scout does deserve to be fixed, your greediness has made me decide to distance myself from the majority. I will continue to be a asset to my team, and live with what little ccp decides to give us.

Actually you are the one that is unreasonable

Between the comments, there were these mentioned

1) Scouts often move alone or in very small packs where communication is sufficient, thus utility would be limited (one of my comments)

2) The difference would not be noticeable considering how small scout radius's are and how much weaker it is to the active scanner stat wise, thus instead of making it compete directly with the active scanner keep its separate niche like it does now. (one of my comments)

3) Even if it was made effective that plus the active scanner would be way to much info, we would practically be back to everyone having vision again. (my second post)

4) Could be implemented into an active module (I agreed with this could work too)

5) If scouts are getting a one time look at, focus on things that would actually benefit scouts

6) Only the gallente scout would be able to use this really due to its radius bonus, and the min scout would not

All of them are valid concerns, and it is what they are concerns, which if an idea is not able to hold up to scrutiny then it may be a bad idea or the person arguing the pros is a little sensitive and not open for direct rebuttal.

You could of talked how you wanted to change the active scanner to make the idea fit in better because as I have mentioned MWO has this ability and makes it useful, but you did not and instead pretty much just dismissed everybody without addressing the concerns.

Essentially I don't see how you were planning on turning anybody over with the verbal tactics you were using.

I did not include changes to current active scanners due to forum rules. Plus there already well thought out conversations discussing changes to them.

Passive scan is neat, but for most suits it's stupidly small.

Except for scouts, except since it isn't shared with the squad, it's not so useful (scouts being squishy etc)

If scouts could share scan results with their squad, then

1. it would encourage them to fit range extenders and/or precision amps in some situations (up from 'never')
2. They would find a role separate from 'lolscouts just use active scanner', since they don't let reds know they turned up on scan
3. They would reclaim the equipment slot that may have been an active scanner
4. scout suits actually have a scouting bonus

Discuss.

That is a good idea and you should feel good.

(edit: not 100% sure about intel assists just for looking at someone, but definitely intel assists for passive scanning)