DUST Search - [request] Scouts should share passive scan results with their squad

Oswald Rehnquist wrote:

Actually you are the one that is unreasonable

Between the comments, there were these mentioned

1) Scouts often move alone or in very small packs where communication is sufficient, thus utility would be limited (one of my comments)

2) The difference would not be noticeable considering how small scout radius's are and how much weaker it is to the active scanner stat wise, thus instead of making it compete directly with the active scanner keep its separate niche like it does now. (one of my comments)

3) Even if it was made effective that plus the active scanner would be way to much info, we would practically be back to everyone having vision again. (my second post)

4) Could be implemented into an active module (I agreed with this could work too)

5) If scouts are getting a one time look at, focus on things that would actually benefit scouts

6) Only the gallente scout would be able to use this really due to its radius bonus, and the min scout would not

All of them are valid concerns, and it is what they are concerns, which if an idea is not able to hold up to scrutiny then it may be a bad idea or the person arguing the pros is a little sensitive and not open for direct rebuttal.

You could of talked how you wanted to change the active scanner to make the idea fit in better because as I have mentioned MWO has this ability and makes it useful, but you did not and instead pretty much just dismissed everybody without addressing the concerns.

Essentially I don't see how you were planning on turning anybody over with the verbal tactics you were using.


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Samantha Hunyz Legions of Infinite Dominion 29	Posted - 2013.12.05 03:16:00 - [1] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Passive scan is neat, but for most suits it's stupidly small. Except for scouts, except since it isn't shared with the squad, it's not so useful (scouts being squishy etc) If scouts could share scan results with their squad, then 1. it would encourage them to fit range extenders and/or precision amps in some situations (up from 'never') 2. They would find a role separate from 'lolscouts just use active scanner', since they don't let reds know they turned up on scan 3. They would reclaim the equipment slot that may have been an active scanner 4. scout suits actually have a scouting bonus Discuss. Add in Intel kill assist points. Also, show the squad those I'm tracking in my sights for the same effect. This is what scouts do, gather Intel and give it to those that need it. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Samantha Hunyz Legions of Infinite Dominion 38	Posted - 2013.12.05 21:25:00 - [2] - Quote Garth Mandra wrote: Sana Rayya wrote: Except you coud fit a proto scout with complex precision enhancers/range amplifiers and get 100m passive scan range with 30db scan fidelity, then sit in a tank and act as passive scanner for anyone in the range of your minimap, all the while farming intel assists from kills. This could be an issue. Just turn off passive scans while in a vehicle though. I'm not sure whether you should get scan assists for passive scanning though. It probably wouldn't be game breaking so it could just be tried out and then turned off/tweaked if it doesn't work right. I agree it would have to be watched closely and have a patch on standby to turn off the wps if need be. Being inside of vehicles should not scan as well. @sana: If a gallente scout (the only scout that could fit there suit the way you mentioned) did this, their combat efficiency would be null. I don't see a problem with this. A logistics can be a human vending machine spamming a whole map and have a massive pool of hps. The scout at least has a trade off for doing passive scans extremely well (little hps and little damage). When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Samantha Hunyz Legions of Infinite Dominion 38	Posted - 2013.12.05 21:33:00 - [3] - Quote As far as the down the scope was, I don't see this as an issue. I personally use a sniper rifle , and spotting enemies in my scope should relay that information to my squad. This also reduces my chances of scoring a kill myself. It is better that my squad knows they are being flanked, but a little compensation for the information should be rewarded. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Samantha Hunyz Legions of Infinite Dominion 42	Posted - 2013.12.06 01:30:00 - [4] - Quote Ivy Zalinto wrote: Where i love this idea, it would be a bad thing and people would shout nerf again from the hills. My scan range is like...31 or something like that now that I have range amp maxed on my scout. And my precision will detect quite a bit unless your heavily dampened. Combine that with a complex range amp and your never leaving radar from me being a passive hunter. Idk, good idea in theory but in application this could get us nerfed when we really need buffs You must be joking. With your suit layout to achieve what you said, would be like 3 rounds from most weapons. Now squad scan is down, you a death, and easy wps for the person that killed you. How in the frack can than be op? How could any cry about this being op be considered serious? When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Samantha Hunyz Legions of Infinite Dominion 47	Posted - 2013.12.07 00:39:00 - [5] - Quote IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Ummm...we already discussed this over in the scout registry a while back, and I think the general consensus was concern about our stealth going to **** because there's likely to be a gaggle of mercs closing on your position, and alerting whoever you might be stalking. So, if this was implemented, for the love of scouts, allow us to disable or enable it, or somehow press a button that shares the data when we decide we want to. The last thing I want is one or more non-dampened, non-stealthy, AR-toting team-mates running gung-ho to the target(s) I'm stalking, alerting them and most likely giving away my position. We are discussing squad vision, not team. You choose who you squad with, so I don't see your issue with this as relevant. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Samantha Hunyz Legions of Infinite Dominion 47	Posted - 2013.12.07 03:50:00 - [6] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: The last time we Scouts debated the idea ... which we debated at length ... the majority were opposed unless we could toggle it off/on (ON for PC, otherwise OFF). Quite a few of us rely on sneak attacks, which tend to involve sneaking up directly behind a target. Timing is everything, and you don't want your target getting jumpy. Teammates (even squaddies) tend to move in the direction of the nearest red and fire without second thought. Bad news for us Assassin types who may be stalking or closing gap when the "help" arrives. If MedFrames must have this of us, then let them have it. But don't call it a "Scout Buff" ... this is not what we've waited for. Permit us to toggle it off and on; it'll likely do us more harm than good. I expected better from you Shotty. I liked this idea before the black eagle event. I like it even more now. I would run in a squad with a logi throwing up an active scan, my team would engage. During the firefight, I could easily slip behind the reds and go down the-áline with my Shotty getting multiple easy kills in a row. This is exactly how it will help you if we scouts share info with our squad. We would scan the enemy on approach of their rear. Our squad engages from the front holding their attention. As for an on/off button, simply don't squad up. If you must play as an individual and do not wish to contribute, do so like every everyone else does and go solo. Being selfish and trying to be a solo assassin but in squad makes little sense to me. Trying to prevent scouts from being able to contribute in a way that makes sense is selfish. This is not a medium suit buff, it is a teamwork buff. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Samantha Hunyz Legions of Infinite Dominion 50	Posted - 2013.12.07 08:44:00 - [7] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Quote: 15:45[CCP]Wolfman >the scout scan sharing is an interesting idea 15:45[CCP]Wolfman >ill nention it to remnant Fingers crossed. Don't know where this was pulled, but I'm guessing irc. I wish ccp spent as much time here as they do on there. That way we don't get some twisted half assed monstrosity that nobody wants. I feel as though that take a partial idea from the players without actually looking at our input, and hand it of to some coder with just a basic outline. From there it's finger crossed. If they get it wrong, it's just put back at the end of the line to be fixed soon. I don't mean to rant on ccp, as I do enjoy this game and appreciate all of their hard work and support they put into this game. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Samantha Hunyz Legions of Infinite Dominion 55	Posted - 2013.12.07 20:53:00 - [8] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Minmatar scouts say, "what good does this do me?" This would just be another buff to gallente, who are the recon based scouts. Minmatar which are assassins and combat support have zero use for this. As cool as this seems on paper it only benefits one suit type by turning them into a piece of equipment rather than giving them a combat role. * MedFrames want a role for Scouts, so long as its a Support Role. Tsk Tsk Tsk. * Why would MedFrames want you, Moody -- a lowly Scout -- to have a combat role? Scouts aren't supposed to be killing things. Those points are supposed to be for EZ Mode, Moody. The Scout Buff and Role -- we've waited six months -- should involve something that benefits EZ Mode. Its the Scout's job to make EZ Mode easier, Moody. Stop being selfish. There's a 250 page thread somewhere on these Forums with lots of good ideas for fixing Scouts. Yet "Scout Fix" suggestions cooked up by EZ Mode are the ones which catch the Wolfman's eye. :: Mind Blown :: How about instead of blaming this on medium suit players (could have swore I was a scout)and just saying no its no good, you give constructive feedback. Scout is in our name. This implies that we gather Intel and share it with our squad. How does this affect all of you that simple don't want this? How does this prevent players from being solo assassin's? Do you all play with bad players all of the time that you think that defining our role on the battlefield (in a manner that works with our name) is a bad thing? So far all the counter arguments have been selfish in nature and blames others for no reason. I don't mind criticism if it is well thought out. I did notice that minmatar do think this does not help them, but can someone expand on this and give reasons why, as well as possible give an example of how this is bad for them? So far the argument of teammates (though this is squad shared vision idea) would rush up to the scout and screw up what they were doing holds no water. As pointed, most scouts are away from the action to start. If you can not solo the objective after some time but the squad leader realizes through your information that it might be a prime time to move the rest of the squad to take it, how is that bad for you? Arguing that your squad mates would see red dots and rush to your location is not the fault of your suit, but a testament to what type players you have chosen to play with. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Samantha Hunyz Legions of Infinite Dominion 56	Posted - 2013.12.07 21:57:00 - [9] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: Samantha Hunyz wrote: How about instead of blaming this on medium suit players (could have swore I was a scout)and just saying no its no good, you give constructive feedback. I know you're a Scout, Sam. And I've already told you that we debated this at length. How about instead of stomping your feet, you go out and find the thread. The vast majority of Scouts are not in favor of this idea. Most of the folks who favor the idea are not Scouts. These are facts worthy of your consideration. I still have the thread, and all the arguments against this is the same ones here. The facts are that many did oppose this, but the reasoning was minimal. Elaborate as to why this is bad is a better tactic than just stomping you foot and saying "no I don't like this". When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Samantha Hunyz Legions of Infinite Dominion 57	Posted - 2013.12.07 22:34:00 - [10] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: Samantha Hunyz wrote: I still have the thread, and all the arguments against this is the same ones here. The facts are that many did oppose this, but the reasoning was minimal. Elaborate as to why this is bad is a better tactic than just stomping you foot and saying "no I don't like this". You're gonna make for a fine Forum Warrior, Samantha Hunyz. Even when you're dead wrong, you make it look so good :-) You must promise to continue doing this for Scouts, long after I've left. Not gonna argue this one further, other than to say ... We're a low priority. We'll get one tweak a year. When it comes, I hope it'll be something useful. Here are some of the useful tweaks Scouts have proposed: * Add Hi / Lo Slot + PG / CPU * Add EQ Slot + PG / CPU * Backstab Damage Multiplier * Built-in Active Camo / Cloak * Faster Movement / Sprint / Strafe Speed * Better Scan Statistics (Profile, Precision, Range) * Better Racial Bonuses * Improved Mobility (jump, fall, stamina, etc) * Improved Evasives (hit-box adjustment, auto-aim resistance) ^ Find the ones that EZ Mode won't sign off on. Those are the ones we want. I agree with you on all points on this. This topic is just an idea to give scouts a role, which I believe all suits should have. This however does little to nothing towards actually fixing the scout issues. Any of the problems you point out if fixed would be a breath of life back into us scouts. The only reason I am advocating this over the real problems is that the coding for this is already in place in a dormant state. The code can be easily adjusted with minimal work on ccp's part. From there they can take the time to rewrite or create new code that actual makes the suit viable. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.

Samantha Hunyz Legions of Infinite Dominion 63	Posted - 2013.12.08 23:53:00 - [11] - Quote Seriously guys, you are a speedy little scouts, with a second rate scan ability compared to the active scanner. Do you really believe that your squad is going to see the one or two red dots on your radar and drop everything to go get those out of the way, middle of nowhere red dot or two? Let's say that they do., would those red dots even be there by the time they started moving? Those times that your radar is actually full of reds, that is when and where your squad should be. And guess what, I highly doubt you are alive by the time your squad even gets there unless your a part of the 1% elite, because you are wearing a scout little hp suit. IMHO, it seems as though most of you scouts will not be happy until you can be one man armies. You believe you are entitled to have a suit that can slay every others with 1HKs, and take on the whole enemy by yourself. I will no longer continue to help this is or any other scout issues. Even though the scout does deserve to be fixed, your greediness has made me decide to distance myself from the majority. I will continue to be a asset to my team, and live with what little ccp decides to give us. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Samantha Hunyz Legions of Infinite Dominion 65	Posted - 2013.12.09 07:39:00 - [12] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Actually you are the one that is unreasonable Between the comments, there were these mentioned 1) Scouts often move alone or in very small packs where communication is sufficient, thus utility would be limited (one of my comments) 2) The difference would not be noticeable considering how small scout radius's are and how much weaker it is to the active scanner stat wise, thus instead of making it compete directly with the active scanner keep its separate niche like it does now. (one of my comments) 3) Even if it was made effective that plus the active scanner would be way to much info, we would practically be back to everyone having vision again. (my second post) 4) Could be implemented into an active module (I agreed with this could work too) 5) If scouts are getting a one time look at, focus on things that would actually benefit scouts 6) Only the gallente scout would be able to use this really due to its radius bonus, and the min scout would not All of them are valid concerns, and it is what they are concerns, which if an idea is not able to hold up to scrutiny then it may be a bad idea or the person arguing the pros is a little sensitive and not open for direct rebuttal. You could of talked how you wanted to change the active scanner to make the idea fit in better because as I have mentioned MWO has this ability and makes it useful, but you did not and instead pretty much just dismissed everybody without addressing the concerns. Essentially I don't see how you were planning on turning anybody over with the verbal tactics you were using. 1. This is true, but the wp idea helps give scouts other outlets of being useful and valuable. 2. Because the scout vision would be passive, the active scanner should be stronger as is the way of dust. 3. See my answer 2 4. See your answer 3 5. Look back at my post referring to develop time 6. I do agree that the gallente current plays type has to do little to implement and make useful. The mini can rework layouts and sp to take advantage of this as well. In the end it offers both new tools to learn and use to their advantage. The missing suits could bridge the gap, but at the end of the day some suits are better at using things than others. I did not include changes to current active scanners due to forum rules. Plus there already well thought out conversations discussing changes to them. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.