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Pvt Numnutz Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 354	Posted - 2013.11.28 17:02:00 - [1] - Quote The change to swarm launchers is good, finally bringing them into balance. I'm very happy that this change is taking place. However I keep seeing threads of swarm launcher useres saying that they are going to be specing into the forge gun because they don't believe swarms will be useful or have an intended role. This is bad for any pilot or tanker as we all know one forge gun on the field makes vehicles useless. If they were in abundance, like swarm launchers are in abundance, then vehicle pilots face their most serious threat yet. If two people get annoyed by a tank or dropship they can just switch out to a forge gun 3 shot whatever vehicle was on the field and switch back. Why do swarm launcher useres want forge guns now? Because swarms aren't going to be nearly as easy to use in 1.7 as they are now. So they want av that is easy to use with as little skill and effort as possible. Prove me wrong.
Cody Sietz Unkn0wn Killers Renegade Alliance 1619	Posted - 2013.11.28 17:06:00 - [2] - Quote I'm staying with swarms, but only cause it was the one option for dealing with armour tanks at range as a medium/light. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 790	Posted - 2013.11.28 17:13:00 - [3] - Quote I am pretty sure as far dropships go the forge will be as broken in 1.7 as it is now. Even with the DS speed increase that 300m range and the fact they can pop out of any uplink, and corner or from any supply depot, makes protecting oneself, by correct and intelligent use of active modules almost impossible. There is no warning, no locating it and extreme difficulty in killing it. All we can do is collect the evidence of the imbalance and submit this to CCP. Politely. Accurately and with maturity. At the same time, I will also report to CCP if swarms seem to weak. Dropship pilots want balance and fun. Not carte blanche freedom to freely roam. I am speced deeply into both swarms and forge guns. So i will be trying both sides. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Syeven Reed RETR0 PR0 GAMERS 194	Posted - 2013.11.28 17:48:00 - [4] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I am pretty sure as far dropships go the forge will be as broken in 1.7 as it is now. Even with the DS speed increase that 300m range and the fact they can pop out of any uplink, and corner or from any supply depot, makes protecting oneself, by correct and intelligent use of active modules almost impossible. There is no warning, no locating it and extreme difficulty in killing it. All we can do is collect the evidence of the imbalance and submit this to CCP. Politely. Accurately and with maturity. At the same time, I will also report to CCP if swarms seem to weak. Dropship pilots want balance and fun. Not carte blanche freedom to freely roam. I am speced deeply into both swarms and forge guns. So i will be trying both sides. Very well said, have a like! Gÿé Syeven 514
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 342	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:06:00 - [5] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I am pretty sure as far dropships go the forge will be as broken in 1.7 as it is now. Even with the DS speed increase that 300m range and the fact they can pop out of any uplink, and corner or from any supply depot, makes protecting oneself, by correct and intelligent use of active modules almost impossible. There is no warning, no locating it and extreme difficulty in killing it. All we can do is collect the evidence of the imbalance and submit this to CCP. Politely. Accurately and with maturity. At the same time, I will also report to CCP if swarms seem to weak. Dropship pilots want balance and fun. Not carte blanche freedom to freely roam. I am speced deeply into both swarms and forge guns. So i will be trying both sides. I'm less worried about forges than I am about rail tanks. Rail are more powerful with longer range and accuracy. On top of that, they are impossible to kill due to their high health and tendency to camp the redline. On top of that, our one advantage against them (their low vertical aiming), can easily be mitigated by a small hill tilting the tank upwards. Rails need a nerf, a counter, or anything viable to threaten them. Currently, the best option is to suicide a squad of AV grenade packed troops, but that's a farfetched tactic anyway. Dropship Specialist: AKA Clinically Insane Kills- Incubus: 2; Pythons: 0; Logistics: 0; Militia: 13; Tanks: 2
Pvt Numnutz Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 356	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:16:00 - [6] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I am pretty sure as far dropships go the forge will be as broken in 1.7 as it is now. Even with the DS speed increase that 300m range and the fact they can pop out of any uplink, and corner or from any supply depot, makes protecting oneself, by correct and intelligent use of active modules almost impossible. There is no warning, no locating it and extreme difficulty in killing it. All we can do is collect the evidence of the imbalance and submit this to CCP. Politely. Accurately and with maturity. At the same time, I will also report to CCP if swarms seem to weak. Dropship pilots want balance and fun. Not carte blanche freedom to freely roam. I am speced deeply into both swarms and forge guns. So i will be trying both sides. Indeed. I don't ever want my dropship to become overpowered. I am much more interested in good fights and entertaining engagements. I am a littke nervous of the spash damage missiles are getting and will be experimenting with gunners and my xt fragmented missiles, if i find them to be too strong i will post it here. I believe swarms will be more interesting after 1.7 You accurately stated what I feel is wrong with forge guns and I do hope some action is taken in the interest of balance. though ill probably make a separate thread about that.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 145	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:21:00 - [7] - Quote change forge damage BF3 style forge guns: 40% damage vs. dropships=550-600 dmg, not too high not low 100 dmg nerf all tiers maybe, nerf AFG damage by 500 mass drivers: 70% damage vs dropships recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1794	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:25:00 - [8] - Quote Come on OP they wont swap from the SL to the FG, that requires aim and they dont have any
Foundation Seldon Gespenster Kompanie Villore Accords 231	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:27:00 - [9] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I am pretty sure as far dropships go the forge will be as broken in 1.7 as it is now. Even with the DS speed increase that 300m range and the fact they can pop out of any uplink, and corner or from any supply depot, makes protecting oneself, by correct and intelligent use of active modules almost impossible. There is no warning, no locating it and extreme difficulty in killing it. All we can do is collect the evidence of the imbalance and submit this to CCP. Politely. Accurately and with maturity. At the same time, I will also report to CCP if swarms seem to weak. Dropship pilots want balance and fun. Not carte blanche freedom to freely roam. I am speced deeply into both swarms and forge guns. So i will be trying both sides. I'm less worried about forges than I am about rail tanks. Rail are more powerful with longer range and accuracy. On top of that, they are impossible to kill due to their high health and tendency to camp the redline. On top of that, our one advantage against them (their low vertical aiming), can easily be mitigated by a small hill tilting the tank upwards. Rails need a nerf, a counter, or anything viable to threaten them. Currently, the best option is to suicide a squad of AV grenade packed troops, but that's a farfetched tactic anyway. Don't forget about the 1.7 buff to Large Rails on top of all that you mentioned. Now they do Compressed Railgun damage at Normal Railgun rate of fire and heat gain ... and THEN they added 30% active vehicle damage mods to the game. Redline railing will be far more potent than it is now as a result and Dropships, with their increased reliance on active resist mods in order to tank any sort of significant damage, will be the easiest targets to tag. Stick to Ambush, guys. 1.7 LAVs - Thoughts and Discussion
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 145	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:28:00 - [10] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Come on OP they wont swap from the SL to the FG, that requires slight hipfire aim against big targets with basically hitscan and they dont have any if not abusing high places fixed recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit

Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 931	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:29:00 - [11] - Quote A former HAV user, and today I fielded my cheap BPO std without dmg mod swarm fit and killed two madrugars easily... Damn that was easy kills.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 145	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:30:00 - [12] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: Don't forget about the 1.7 buff to Large Rails on top of all that you mentioned. Now they do Compressed Railgun damage at Normal Railgun rate of fire and heat gain ... and THEN they added 30% active vehicle damage mods to the game. Redline railing will be far more potent than it is now as a result and Dropships, with their increased reliance on active resist mods in order to tank any sort of significant damage, will be the easiest targets to tag. Stick to Ambush, guys. railguns: 40% damage vs dropships, as a start of balance recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Fox Gaden Bojo's School of the Trades 1641	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:31:00 - [13] - Quote As the guy who wrote the Swarm Launcher guide, I am taking a wait and see approach. I think the range nerf is reasonable, although it is going to make swarms less effective against dropships. As for the rest of it, I will have to try it in 1.7 and see how it balances against the vehicle changes. Renier Gaden: CEO of Immortal Guides Fox Gaden: TCO & TMO for BSotT Crash Gaden: Operations Director, Immortal Guide
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 145	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:33:00 - [14] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: A former HAV user, and today I fielded my cheap BPO std without dmg mod swarm fit and killed two madrugars easily... Damn that was easy kills. my std av nades & swarms eat tanks: +150 o's for breakfast recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 145	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:34:00 - [15] - Quote change forge damage BF3 style forge guns: 40% damage vs. dropships=550-600 dmg, not too high not low 100 dmg nerf all tiers maybe, nerf AFG damage by 500 mass drivers: 70% damage vs dropships railguns: 40% damage vs dropships, as a start of balance recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 719	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:45:00 - [16] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Foundation Seldon wrote: Don't forget about the 1.7 buff to Large Rails on top of all that you mentioned. Now they do Compressed Railgun damage at Normal Railgun rate of fire and heat gain ... and THEN they added 30% active vehicle damage mods to the game. Redline railing will be far more potent than it is now as a result and Dropships, with their increased reliance on active resist mods in order to tank any sort of significant damage, will be the easiest targets to tag. Stick to Ambush, guys. railguns: 40% damage vs dropships, as a start of balance yes, because your non combat craft should be immune to fire, unlike everything else on the field. Guess what? I have to deal with AV fire and I'm a ****-ton slower than you, since I'm a tank. Nut up and deal with the flak if you want to fly in the warzone, wuss. If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
Pvt Numnutz Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 357	Posted - 2013.11.28 19:19:00 - [17] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Foundation Seldon wrote: Don't forget about the 1.7 buff to Large Rails on top of all that you mentioned. Now they do Compressed Railgun damage at Normal Railgun rate of fire and heat gain ... and THEN they added 30% active vehicle damage mods to the game. Redline railing will be far more potent than it is now as a result and Dropships, with their increased reliance on active resist mods in order to tank any sort of significant damage, will be the easiest targets to tag. Stick to Ambush, guys. railguns: 40% damage vs dropships, as a start of balance yes, because your non combat craft should be immune to fire, unlike everything else on the field. Guess what? I have to deal with AV fire and I'm a ****-ton slower than you, since I'm a tank. Nut up and deal with the flak if you want to fly in the warzone, wuss. Non combat craft? Okaaay..... Yes you do have to deal with av as well, yes you are slower but you have quite a bit more HP than dropships. I have sucked it up for months, however the forge gun is far too easy and beats my months of training because lol 2 shot. Forge guns pose a serious threat to dropships, I don't want them to not pose a serious threat either. I just want the forge gun to be a little more balanced so I'm not banging my head against a wall everytime I lose a very expensive dropship (that I worked hard on the ground to buy) in 5 seconds. I'm going to post another thread about forge guns with all of this information. I'm not looking for a hand out, just a hand.
Pvt Numnutz Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 357	Posted - 2013.11.28 19:22:00 - [18] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Come on OP they wont swap from the SL to the FG, that requires aim and they dont have any They have to get a lock which is almost aiming, and two guys with forge guns only have to get lucky once. I'm afraid that because one av weapon is being balanced we will see a lot more use of the overpowered one. Forge guns really aren't that hard to use, even a swarm launcher guy could figure it out in a couple days.
EternalRMG KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 639	Posted - 2013.11.28 20:14:00 - [19] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I am pretty sure as far dropships go the forge will be as broken in 1.7 as it is now. Even with the DS speed increase that 300m range and the fact they can pop out of any uplink, and corner or from any supply depot, makes protecting oneself, by correct and intelligent use of active modules almost impossible. There is no warning, no locating it and extreme difficulty in killing it. All we can do is collect the evidence of the imbalance and submit this to CCP. Politely. Accurately and with maturity. At the same time, I will also report to CCP if swarms seem to weak. Dropship pilots want balance and fun. Not carte blanche freedom to freely roam. I am speced deeply into both swarms and forge guns. So i will be trying both sides. I'm less worried about forges than I am about rail tanks. Rail are more powerful with longer range and accuracy. On top of that, they are impossible to kill due to their high health and tendency to camp the redline. On top of that, our one advantage against them (their low vertical aiming), can easily be mitigated by a small hill tilting the tank upwards. Rails need a nerf, a counter, or anything viable to threaten them. Currently, the best option is to suicide a squad of AV grenade packed troops, but that's a farfetched tactic anyway. Don't forget about the 1.7 buff to Large Rails on top of all that you mentioned. Now they do Compressed Railgun damage at Normal Railgun rate of fire and heat gain ... and THEN they added 30% active vehicle damage mods to the game. Redline railing will be far more potent than it is now as a result and Dropships, with their increased reliance on active resist mods in order to tank any sort of significant damage, will be the easiest targets to tag. Stick to Ambush, guys. Because of that DropShips will be the ones who must take care of those tanks, they can fly over them, away from the line of fire, and hit them hard Because redline tanks aren meant to be engaged, they wont have much HP, what will make them easier to kill with a derpship "Fight Togheter; Win Together" Duster Since: July 2012 Best DropShip Pilot; Soon To be best Jet Fighter Pilot
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 584	Posted - 2013.11.28 20:24:00 - [20] - Quote swarms will be just fine in my hands my AV fit scout g-I advanced swarms advanced AV grenades standard scanner I engage tanks within throwing range of my grenades (30-40 meters) I sneak up on them throw 3 AV grenades then I swarm until hes evacuated or dead there is no reason to cry over the AV nerf (these items have been OP for way too long) SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5374	Posted - 2013.11.28 20:27:00 - [21] - Quote I'll leave this right here... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3au9H-NcgSw CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5374	Posted - 2013.11.28 20:30:00 - [22] - Quote PS: I invested enough SP to use advanced swarm launchers and I'm ok with this new change. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Reign Omega BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 48	Posted - 2013.11.28 20:42:00 - [23] - Quote As someone with Proto-AV, I welcome the change. I faceroll 90% of tankers by myself, and I can now definitely see when there is a good tanker on the field because I have to coordinate my attack with a squad/teammate or I have to devote quite a bit of time to a stalk and kill, setting a somewhat elaborate trap that usually costs me some suits in the face of infantry. I'm ok with it. I do miss the days of the sit up high and maul every vehicle that I see, but I can also agree it was lazy SP. I look forward to seeing what 1.7 has in store for me on the Vehicle and AV side, as I have a character dedicated to both.
Reign Omega BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 48	Posted - 2013.11.28 20:43:00 - [24] - Quote Side note, I hope CCP fixes the lock on issue, where my Swarm will lock on to something I can't even hit at the range I am.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1412	Posted - 2013.11.28 20:54:00 - [25] - Quote Aww man. I wanted the big boys like Charlotte, Void, and Spkr to come out. Heck even 'Ol Ben would suffice. Why did the LOLTank Brigade send you of all people? Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1412	Posted - 2013.11.28 21:16:00 - [26] - Quote To answer the OP, We are changing to FGs in 1.7 because we don't think that our PRO weapons should do minimal damage to a vehicle We also are switching to FGs because it will take multiple people to destroy one vehicle. Which is disgustingly sick considering how it only takes one person to operate what is quite literally the easiest role in the game, as well as one that doesn't require even teamwork. I on the other hand, find it quite impossible to switch considering how I use both FGs and SLs. "Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me" -such is the motto of vehicle pilots Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
Blaze Ashra Ametat Security Amarr Empire 31	Posted - 2013.11.28 21:17:00 - [27] - Quote Atiim wrote: Aww man. I wanted the big boys like Charlotte, Void, and Spkr to come out. Heck even 'Ol Ben would suffice. Why did the LOLTank Brigade send you of all people? This is more of a dropship user issue if you haven't noticed. We just happen to coincide in that we use vehicles and vehicle modules. See the quote below ant tell me if you think he cares one iota. Dropships should be balanced with forges and large rail turrets, Tanks should be balanced with swarms, large blaster and missile turrets and AV grenades. Heathen Bastard wrote: yes, because your non combat craft should be immune to fire, unlike everything else on the field. Guess what? I have to deal with AV fire and I'm a ****-ton slower than you, since I'm a tank. Nut up and deal with the flak if you want to fly in the warzone, wuss. Though he does have a fair point about trying to make invincible dropships.
Blaze Ashra Ametat Security Amarr Empire 32	Posted - 2013.11.28 21:24:00 - [28] - Quote Atiim wrote: To answer the OP, We are changing to FGs in 1.7 because we don't think that our PRO weapons should do minimal damage to a vehicle We also are switching to FGs because it will take multiple people to destroy one vehicle. Which is disgustingly sick considering how it only takes one person to operate what is quite literally the easiest role in the game, as well as one that doesn't require even teamwork. I on the other hand, find it quite impossible to switch considering how I use both FGs and SLs. "Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me" -such is the motto of vehicle pilots Really Atilm? Dropships are the easiest role in the game? Go take your vehicle hate to a tanker thread please.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1415	Posted - 2013.11.28 21:29:00 - [29] - Quote Blaze Ashra wrote: Really Atim? Dropships are the easiest role in the game? Go take your vehicle hate to a tanker thread please. Well this was directed towards HAVs. You know, considering how the OP mentions HAVs. And why do you believe that I hate vehicles? Because I don't want them becoming a FoTM? Also, that doesn't make what I said any less true. Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
Pvt Numnutz Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 357	Posted - 2013.11.28 21:40:00 - [30] - Quote Atiim wrote: To answer the OP, We are changing to FGs in 1.7 because we don't think that our PRO weapons should do minimal damage to a vehicle We also are switching to FGs because it will take multiple people to destroy one vehicle. Which is disgustingly sick considering how it only takes one person to operate what is quite literally the easiest role in the game, as well as one that doesn't require even teamwork. I on the other hand, find it quite impossible to switch considering how I use both FGs and SLs. "Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me" -such is the motto of vehicle pilots Vehicles are also loosing some HP too. The whole concept of a dropship is teamwork. A dropship is nothing without gunners or mercs to drop. Saying that a dropship doesn't require teamwork is wrong, just wrong. I believe that quote came from a vehicle pilot making a point about how av mercs think av should work. Atiim wrote: We also are switching to FGs because it will take multiple people to destroy one vehicle. Which is disgustingly sick Thank you for proving his point.

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1415	Posted - 2013.11.28 21:50:00 - [31] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Atiim wrote: To answer the OP, We are changing to FGs in 1.7 because we don't think that our PRO weapons should do minimal damage to a vehicle We also are switching to FGs because it will take multiple people to destroy one vehicle. Which is disgustingly sick considering how it only takes one person to operate what is quite literally the easiest role in the game, as well as one that doesn't require even teamwork. I on the other hand, find it quite impossible to switch considering how I use both FGs and SLs. "Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me" -such is the motto of vehicle pilots Vehicles are also loosing some HP too. The whole concept of a dropship is teamwork. A dropship is nothing without gunners or mercs to drop. Saying that a dropship doesn't require teamwork is wrong, just wrong. I believe that quote came from a vehicle pilot making a point about how av mercs think av should work. Atiim wrote: We also are switching to FGs because it will take multiple people to destroy one vehicle. Which is disgustingly sick considering how it only takes one person to operate what is quite literally the easiest role in the game, as well as one that doesn't require even teamwork. Thank you for proving his point. This statement was directed towards HAVs. Not Dropships. You can't tell me that with my 6+ months of piloting an HAV that they require teamwork. I'd love to see you try though. Also, if your going to quote someone; then use the full quote. Don't cut or edit the quote to make your argument seem "better" or the other(s) "worser". That's called Libel. Do you work for Fox News by any chance? Oh so I was correct in my statement: Atiim wrote: "Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me" -such is the motto of vehicle pilots Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
Blaze Ashra Ametat Security Amarr Empire 32	Posted - 2013.11.28 21:54:00 - [32] - Quote Atiim wrote: And why do you believe that I hate vehicles? Because I don't want them becoming a FoTM? Atiim wrote: Aww man. I wanted the big boys like Charlotte, Void, and Spkr to come out. Heck even 'Ol Ben would suffice. This made me think that you just wanted to argue, so sorry if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that you were intentionally calling out people, needlessly, just to get in an argument with 3 established, primary tankers. Atiim wrote: Well this was directed towards HAVs. You know, considering how the OP mentions HAVs. It affects LAV, HAV, DS, ADS, forge and swarm users. The sad truth is that HAV are the most viable vehicles and he's trying to get some support from the largest and most vocal vehicle population. Atiim wrote: Also, that doesn't make what I said any less true. True.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 348	Posted - 2013.11.28 22:13:00 - [33] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I am pretty sure as far dropships go the forge will be as broken in 1.7 as it is now. Even with the DS speed increase that 300m range and the fact they can pop out of any uplink, and corner or from any supply depot, makes protecting oneself, by correct and intelligent use of active modules almost impossible. There is no warning, no locating it and extreme difficulty in killing it. All we can do is collect the evidence of the imbalance and submit this to CCP. Politely. Accurately and with maturity. At the same time, I will also report to CCP if swarms seem to weak. Dropship pilots want balance and fun. Not carte blanche freedom to freely roam. I am speced deeply into both swarms and forge guns. So i will be trying both sides. Mature and logical position, Judge. +1 I'm actually ok with updates to swarms, forges, and vehicles...they must all be looked at collectively and not as individual pieces. Tanks will be weaker and particularly vulnerable to ambush tactics and the shorter swarm range means you have to work in close or use terrain...sounds ok to me. The major exception to this is the how the swarm range nerf will impact their ability to deal with dropships. To be frank, a solid pilot who's actually invested in his dropship can be pretty hard to take down for AV players...even for a couple guys synching swarms. Dropships can eat the initial swarms and accelerate out of their range now...best practice is to begin engaging at max range with a good angle to place the max number of missiles on them. This is going to be near impossible with both the range and damage nerfs.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 146	Posted - 2013.11.28 22:23:00 - [34] - Quote Atiim wrote: Aww man. I wanted the big boys like Charlotte, Void, and Spkr to come out. Heck even 'Ol Ben would suffice. Why did the LOLTank Brigade send you of all people? why did the LOL Av brigade send you? recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Pvt Numnutz Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 357	Posted - 2013.11.28 22:24:00 - [35] - Quote Atiim wrote: This statement was directed towards HAVs. Not Dropships. You can't tell me that with my 6+ months of piloting an HAV that they require teamwork. I'd love to see you try though. Also, if your going to quote someone; then use the full quote. Don't cut or edit the quote to make your argument seem "better" or the other(s) "worser". That's called Libel. Do you work for Fox News by any chance? Oh so I was correct in my statement: Atiim wrote: "Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me" -such is the motto of vehicle pilots I believe that quote originally ended with, such is the motto of av players. Sorry I didn't clarify that. I was not quoting you there to make my argument better. Its simply what you said, and illustrates how av players believe av should be. The reason why people will be switching to using forgeguns is because they want to be able to destroy vehicles easily without much skill or effort. Or are you trying to say something else? I don't work for fox, I wouldn't sell my soul like that.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 146	Posted - 2013.11.28 22:27:00 - [36] - Quote Atiim wrote: To answer the OP, We are changing to FGs in 1.7 because we don't think that our PRO weapons should do minimal damage to a vehicle We also are switching to FGs because it will take multiple people to destroy one vehicle. Which is disgustingly sick considering how it only takes one person to operate what is quite literally the easiest role in the game, as well as one that doesn't require even teamwork. I on the other hand, find it quite impossible to switch considering how I use both FGs and SLs. "Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me" -such is the motto of AV infantry i pwn tanks with my std av nades and std swarms quite often, it's actually easier than using a tank or dropship. btw 1. tanks use a form of teamwork. 2. tank characters in games take multiple people to take down recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 308	Posted - 2013.11.28 22:49:00 - [37] - Quote I'm quietly hoping that CCP will introduce new varieties of launchers in the future. The current three (single target, dual target and slower-but-less-CPU/PG-intensive) versions simply don't provide for variety in gameplay. Here's what I'd like to see: 1. Default swarm launcher, featuring lock on ability. Damage to land and air vehicles would be the same. 2. An SL that fires higher rate-of-speed rockets--and over a greater distance--than the standard version. Would be weaker than the standard variety. 3. A direct-fire launcher that loses lock-on capability in return for greater damage. Similar to a forge gun in operation, this version could even be fired in semi-automatic fashion (instead of launching an entire swarm at once, you could shoot the six rockets of each swarm on an individual basis.) Launching an entire swarm would result in a loss of focused accuracy but could make up for that by providing a larger area of damage. Hypothetical damage: 1. Standard variety could do 200 damage per rocket x 6. 2. Seeking rockets could do 150 x 6. 3. Direct-fire could be 300 per rocket, with a charge-up time (similar to the forge gun/charge SR) determining how many rockets you fire out of the possible six. Honestly, the biggest problem is trying to find a middle ground where you can be a threat to tanks without being overpowered against dropships. Life is killing me.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1415	Posted - 2013.11.29 00:40:00 - [38] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Atiim wrote: This statement was directed towards HAVs. Not Dropships. You can't tell me that with my 6+ months of piloting an HAV that they require teamwork. I'd love to see you try though. Also, if your going to quote someone; then use the full quote. Don't cut or edit the quote to make your argument seem "better" or the other(s) "worser". That's called Libel. Do you work for Fox News by any chance? Oh so I was correct in my statement: Atiim wrote: "Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me" -such is the motto of vehicle pilots I believe that quote originally ended with, such is the motto of av players. Sorry I didn't clarify that. I was not quoting you there to make my argument better. Its simply what you said, and illustrates how av players believe av should be. The reason why people will be switching to using forgeguns is because they want to be able to destroy vehicles easily without much skill or effort. Or are you trying to say something else? I don't work for fox, I wouldn't sell my soul like that. The statement did originally end with that, but I use it in it's modified form to reflect what most vehicle pilots want, and have even openly said in multiple threads. But don't worry, I pay the creator (Spkr4TheDead), a total of 1 ISK in royalties every time I use that word. Yes, I was trying to say something else. What I'm trying to say is we are switching to FGs because there is literally no point or reason to use the Swarm Launcher anymore. It's new model is going to defy the logic of all weapons. Long range weapons are supposed have lower damage, but with the advantage of long range (with a few exceptions of course); and Short range weapons are supposed to deal huge amounts of damage with the drawbacks of short range. Why would anyone use a weapon with both short range and lower amounts of damage? You can't give me a good reason as to why I should use the Swarm Launcher over the Forge Gun. I already know that the FG will also be nerfed into uselessness, so I'm going to finish skilling into my Large Railguns. It will clearly be the only viable AV weapon if we continue down this road, so why not get a head start? To make things clearer, it's one of the same reasons why barely anyone uses a PLC. Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1415	Posted - 2013.11.29 00:53:00 - [39] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Atiim wrote: To answer the OP, We are changing to FGs in 1.7 because we don't think that our PRO weapons should do minimal damage to a vehicle We also are switching to FGs because it will take multiple people to destroy one vehicle. Which is disgustingly sick considering how it only takes one person to operate what is quite literally the easiest role in the game, as well as one that doesn't require even teamwork. I on the other hand, find it quite impossible to switch considering how I use both FGs and SLs. "Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me" -such is the motto of AV infantry i pwn tanks with my std av nades and std swarms quite often, it's actually easier than using a tank or dropship. btw 1. tanks use a form of teamwork. 2. tank characters in games take multiple people to take down If you can easily solo a vehicle with STD AV, then it was a poorly fit vehicle. There is no getting around that and if you are quickly taken down by one guy running STD AV you need to start using hardners and (while I hate to use this) "GET GOOD". 1.) Tanks and all vehicles (besides DSs) are self sustainable. They only require one person to operate and you are not required to use teamwork in any condition, shape, fashion, or form to be successful. 2.) I care why? In FPS games like COD vehicles don't even exist. Should we just remove vehicles to be like "other games"? Should we remove all diversity in this game to make it like other games? This isn't your average run-of-the-mill shooter. And I couldn't care about how many people you think it should take to destroy a vehicle. Why should any unit, class, suit, or weapon require teamwork and multiple people to take down when they themselves require no teamwork or multipule units to be successful whatsoever? Because I paid more? Alright, then give me a bundle that costs 500k AUR and Includes an Officer Swarm Launcher, 4 Complex Damage Mods, and Hacked AV grenades, and make it a BPO. Make the SL do 660 damage per swarm and have it launch 9 missiles per volley. It would be perfectly balanced right? After all I did pay more. Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2261	Posted - 2013.11.29 00:56:00 - [40] - Quote I will continue using my swarms against tanks and lavs but dropships will be impossible to kill with an 175m lock on range.

Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 169	Posted - 2013.11.29 01:07:00 - [41] - Quote I really think it is the mechanics of the swarm launcher that needed changing more than anything else. As for redlining rail tanks, they may be a large dropship threat but the are super easy to take out with AV, two or three hits tops. I would say the biggest problem with dropships is the level of power elevation can afford standard infantry. If it is not destroyed en route it is absolutely painful to uproot the uplinks and infantry from that roof. Edit; tl;dr if dropships can take too much damage EVERY match will be a dropship race.
KING CHECKMATE AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 2505	Posted - 2013.11.29 01:20:00 - [42] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: The change to swarm launchers is good, finally bringing them into balance. I'm very happy that this change is taking place. However I keep seeing threads of swarm launcher useres saying that they are going to be specing into the forge gun because they don't believe swarms will be useful or have an intended role. This is bad for any pilot or tanker as we all know one forge gun on the field makes vehicles useless. If they were in abundance, like swarm launchers are in abundance, then vehicle pilots face their most serious threat yet. If two people get annoyed by a tank or dropship they can just switch out to a forge gun 3 shot whatever vehicle was on the field and switch back. Why do swarm launcher useres want forge guns now? Because swarms aren't going to be nearly as easy to use in 1.7 as they are now. So they want av that is easy to use with as little skill and effort as possible. Prove me wrong. Ok vehicle (L)User let me enlighten you and drop some knowledge.... AV specialists like myself know the High Firepower Vehicles have: Tanks can 2 HKo any dropsuit except heavies...and this only the Blaster turret. LAV can run you over and even if not killing you, severely damaging your suit so the driver usually just gets off and finishes you off. Dropships are Hit and run specialists having all the space to maneuver around.Both horizontal & vertically .And enough speed. Depending on the Map, a Dropship can be a terrible menace if left unattended. AV users want to be AS FAR AWAY AS POSSIBLE from the threat to be able to neutralize it effectivley. WIth 175 mts range and a Damage nerf, the Swarm will be able to land only 2 volleys on a DS before it leaves its lock on range. Being at 175 Mts of a Tank is NOT very wise either,since they can activate modules / get close / finish your a off A full speeding LAV will only eat 1 swarm launcher before you can get a lock on it and by then it runs you over. So what did we learn? RANGE > ALL ..while speaking of AV weaponry that is. IMO the RAnge Nerf is a LOT worse than the DAMAGE nerf. Overall, i think CCP is making a GREAT mistake here, Swarms being a CALDARI weapon. Caldaris being LONG Ranged specialists.... The Best Damage Mod, its a Headshot....**
Pvt Numnutz Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 358	Posted - 2013.11.29 01:40:00 - [43] - Quote Atiim wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Atiim wrote: This statement was directed towards HAVs. Not Dropships. You can't tell me that with my 6+ months of piloting an HAV that they require teamwork. I'd love to see you try though. Also, if your going to quote someone; then use the full quote. Don't cut or edit the quote to make your argument seem "better" or the other(s) "worser". That's called Libel. Do you work for Fox News by any chance? Oh so I was correct in my statement: Atiim wrote: "Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me" -such is the motto of vehicle pilots I believe that quote originally ended with, such is the motto of av players. Sorry I didn't clarify that. I was not quoting you there to make my argument better. Its simply what you said, and illustrates how av players believe av should be. The reason why people will be switching to using forgeguns is because they want to be able to destroy vehicles easily without much skill or effort. Or are you trying to say something else? I don't work for fox, I wouldn't sell my soul like that. The statement did originally end with that, but I use it in it's modified form to reflect what most vehicle pilots want, and have even openly said in multiple threads. But don't worry, I pay the creator (Spkr4TheDead), a total of 1 ISK in royalties every time I use that word. Yes, I was trying to say something else. What I'm trying to say is we are switching to FGs because there is literally no point or reason to use the Swarm Launcher anymore. It's new model is going to defy the logic of all weapons. Long range weapons are supposed have lower damage, but with the advantage of long range (with a few exceptions of course); and Short range weapons are supposed to deal huge amounts of damage with the drawbacks of short range. Why would anyone use a weapon with both short range and lower amounts of damage? You can't give me a good reason as to why I should use the Swarm Launcher over the Forge Gun. I already know that the FG will also be nerfed into uselessness, so I'm going to finish skilling into my Large Railguns. It will clearly be the only viable AV weapon if we continue down this road, so why not get a head start? To make things clearer, it's one of the same reasons why barely anyone uses a PLC. Yeah this change breaks the rule that long range weapons have low damage, like the sniper rifle, forge gun, and large rail gun...... The swarm launcher isn't a short range weapon, what other weapon (aside from those mentioned above) can hit effectively at 175m? The swarm launcher is meant to be used with another swarm launcher, hence the name swarm launcher. You're right about one thing, why use a swarm launcher when you could use a forge gun? Clearly the forge gun is out of balance, and its super easy to get kills. Only those that enjoy hunting vehicles will use swarms, or those who want to deny an area to vehicles. I hope the forge isn't nerfed to uselessness, it should be an effective av weapon, however it shouldn't be overpowered either. Stop running Away from having to use your brain, its not healthy
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1417	Posted - 2013.11.29 01:55:00 - [44] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Atiim wrote: The statement did originally end with that, but I use it in it's modified form to reflect what most vehicle pilots want, and have even openly said in multiple threads. But don't worry, I pay the creator (Spkr4TheDead), a total of 1 ISK in royalties every time I use that word. Yes, I was trying to say something else. What I'm trying to say is we are switching to FGs because there is literally no point or reason to use the Swarm Launcher anymore. It's new model is going to defy the logic of all weapons. Long range weapons are supposed have lower damage, but with the advantage of long range (with a few exceptions of course); and Short range weapons are supposed to deal huge amounts of damage with the drawbacks of short range. Why would anyone use a weapon with both short range and lower amounts of damage? You can't give me a good reason as to why I should use the Swarm Launcher over the Forge Gun. I already know that the FG will also be nerfed into uselessness, so I'm going to finish skilling into my Large Railguns. It will clearly be the only viable AV weapon if we continue down this road, so why not get a head start? To make things clearer, it's one of the same reasons why barely anyone uses a PLC. Yeah this change breaks the rule that long range weapons have low damage, like the sniper rifle, forge gun, and large rail gun...... The swarm launcher isn't a short range weapon, what other weapon (aside from those mentioned above) can hit effectively at 175m? The swarm launcher is meant to be used with another swarm launcher, hence the name swarm launcher. You're right about one thing, why use a swarm launcher when you could use a forge gun? Clearly the forge gun is out of balance, and its super easy to get kills. Only those that enjoy hunting vehicles will use swarms, or those who want to deny an area to vehicles. I hope the forge isn't nerfed to uselessness, it should be an effective av weapon, however it shouldn't be overpowered either. Stop running Away from having to use your brain, its not healthy That's why I said with the exception of a few weapons. No it's not. You can not show me a single quote or description from CCP saying that the SL is supposed to be as you just said. That's like me saying HAVs should be slow bricks that are completely dependent on LLAVs to survive and are destroyed easily without one. I don't have an exact quote or description from CCP, but I'm going to assume that it's called "Swarm Launcher" because it fires a *swarm* of rockets at it's targets. Tell me, how can you deny a vehicle of anything when the swarms do minimal damage and the vehicle can easily evade the attack with minimal harm and escape easily? I'd love to see someone try to destroy a dropship with Swarms in 1.7. And the small missile turrets will have 300HP of splash damage? Sounds like Assault Dropships will be the next FoTM to me. I could easily see them firing at infantry while staying above SL lock range. That creates semi-invincibility. I do believe that 400m was way too long, but at 175m they will be a joke weapon. Right next to PLCs. Heck, I want to see you or anyone attempt to give me a good reason as to why I should keep using SLs. To give pilots easy kills? Heck no. Infact, I'm gonna finish skilling into Large Railguns. It's already what most pilots want. HAVs being the best and/or only counter to themselves. Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
Pvt Numnutz Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 359	Posted - 2013.11.29 02:20:00 - [45] - Quote Atiim wrote: That's why I said with the exception of a few weapons. No it's not. You can not show me a single quote or description from CCP saying that the SL is supposed to be as you just said. That's like me saying HAVs should be slow bricks that are completely dependent on LLAVs to survive and are destroyed easily without one. I don't have an exact quote or description from CCP, but I'm going to assume that it's called "Swarm Launcher" because it fires a *swarm* of rockets at it's targets. Tell me, how can you deny a vehicle of anything when the swarms do minimal damage and the vehicle can easily evade the attack with minimal harm and escape easily? I'd love to see someone try to destroy a dropship with Swarms in 1.7. And the small missile turrets will have 300HP of splash damage? Sounds like Assault Dropships will be the next FoTM to me. I could easily see them firing at infantry while staying above SL lock range. That creates semi-invincibility. I do believe that 400m was way too long, but at 175m they will be a joke weapon. Right next to PLCs. Heck, I want to see you or anyone attempt to give me a good reason as to why I should keep using SLs. To give pilots easy kills? Heck no. Infact, I'm gonna finish skilling into Large Railguns. It's already what most pilots want. HAVs being the best and/or only counter to themselves. I don't have a quote from ccp but I'm pretty sure that's what they had in mind. I already said that if I felt the added splash was too much I'd post about it here. I never want dropships to be a flavor of the month. Clearly you don't use dropships, we can't hit, or even see anything at 175m we have to come into your lock on range to hit anything. You're speculating on the new range, but I'm glad you agree 400 was too much. That gives me hope.
Tectonic Fusion 629	Posted - 2013.11.29 03:08:00 - [46] - Quote Yeah yeah... I've never been good at AV anyway. Might as well respec out of it... Solo Player Squad status: Locked
Vitharr Foebane Blood Money Mercenaries 275	Posted - 2013.11.29 03:46:00 - [47] - Quote Just remember guys, FG range = 300m. Large Rail range = 600m b*tch less about FG and more bout the return of redline railing How to make a Heavy Laser: 1.Take laser 2.Make it REALLY BIG 3.Give it to the heavy sobbing quietly in the corner.
Pvt Numnutz Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 359	Posted - 2013.11.29 04:16:00 - [48] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Just remember guys, FG range = 300m. Large Rail range = 600m b*tch less about FG and more bout the return of redline railing All vehicles should not be able to shoot in redline.
Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 193	Posted - 2013.11.29 04:20:00 - [49] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Just remember guys, FG range = 300m. Large Rail range = 600m b*tch less about FG and more bout the return of redline railing All vehicles should not be able to shoot in redline. Even Sniper tanks should exit it to shoot. Names of playstyles
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1424	Posted - 2013.11.29 06:19:00 - [50] - Quote Luna Angelo wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Just remember guys, FG range = 300m. Large Rail range = 600m b*tch less about FG and more bout the return of redline railing All vehicles should not be able to shoot in redline. Even Sniper tanks should exit it to shoot. So you think redline AV is a problem, yet redline tanking is perfectly fine? Another double standard. And I though I heard all of the pilot ones. What a shame Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND

Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 208	Posted - 2013.11.29 06:35:00 - [51] - Quote Atiim wrote: Luna Angelo wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Just remember guys, FG range = 300m. Large Rail range = 600m b*tch less about FG and more bout the return of redline railing All vehicles should not be able to shoot in redline. Even Sniper tanks should exit it to shoot. So you think redline AV is a problem, yet redline tanking is perfectly fine? Another double standard. And I though I heard all of the pilot ones. What a shame ....Where did I say that? Redline tanking is a problem. I said they need to exit to shoot, Atiim. lol Names of playstyles
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1424	Posted - 2013.11.29 06:40:00 - [52] - Quote Luna Angelo wrote: Atiim wrote: Luna Angelo wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Just remember guys, FG range = 300m. Large Rail range = 600m b*tch less about FG and more bout the return of redline railing All vehicles should not be able to shoot in redline. Even Sniper tanks should exit it to shoot. So you think redline AV is a problem, yet redline tanking is perfectly fine? Another double standard. And I though I heard all of the pilot ones. What a shame ....Where did I say that? Redline tanking is a problem. I said they need to exit to shoot, Atiim. lol OMG. I thought that said exist. Man I really gotta stop playing DUST Forums at 1am. Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 146	Posted - 2013.11.29 08:43:00 - [53] - Quote Atim wrote: If you can easily solo a vehicle with STD AV, then it was a poorly fit vehicle. There is no getting around that and if you are quickly taken down by one guy running STD AV you need to start using hardners and (while I hate to use this) "GET GOOD". 1.) Tanks and all vehicles (besides DSs) are self sustainable. They only require one person to operate and you are not required to use teamwork in any condition, shape, fashion, or form to be successful. 1. my infantry doesn't need teamwork so thats invalid 2. i use teamwork with tanks so HTFU 3. the rest disregarded as thats just sily and a poor example 4. in BF3 it takes teamwork to destroy vehicles, in bf3&4 it takes teamwork to destroy a scout heli with engineers, tanks are a team asset, besides you can easily hide from tanks. 5. i destroy tanks solo but not in 1 second, 6k hp tanks i get the drop on or i spam AV from hives. 6. i and they use hardeners so saying "get good" is invalid as AV is in such a OP state that it's going to kill recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 146	Posted - 2013.11.29 08:48:00 - [54] - Quote Atim wrote: Why should any unit, class, suit, or weapon require teamwork and multiple people to take down nerf the repair tool nerf the revive needle nerf nerf heavy's nerf infantry with squads nerf tanks with squads, oh wait, they already are if you want "getWhy should any unit, class, suit, or weapon require teamwork and multiple people to take down" then nerf all the above recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 146	Posted - 2013.11.29 08:53:00 - [55] - Quote Atim wrote: Tell me, how can you deny a vehicle of anything when the swarms do minimal damage and the vehicle can easily evade the attack with minimal harm and escape easily? thats denying an area then lol, damm you av "special"ists cant think for crap recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 170	Posted - 2013.11.29 13:33:00 - [56] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Atim wrote: Tell me, how can you deny a vehicle of anything when the swarms do minimal damage and the vehicle can easily evade the attack with minimal harm and escape easily? thats denying an area then lol, damm you av "special"ists cant think for crap And there we go, the problem with vehicle mentality, you should be able to roll in and kill infantry, LAVs, and Dropships, but you should only be "denied" rather than destroyed. Absolutely idiotic. I drive tanks therefor I should **** faces and get monies. And yes you have A 300m range with the FG, have you ever tried to hit anything at that range? Better hope its stationary and you don't have infantry trying to chew you up.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 146	Posted - 2013.11.29 14:22:00 - [57] - Quote Slag Emberforge wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Atim wrote: Tell me, how can you deny a vehicle of anything when the swarms do minimal damage and the vehicle can easily evade the attack with minimal harm and escape easily? thats denying an area And there we go, the problem with vehicle mentality, you should be able to roll in and kill infantry, LAVs, and Dropships, but you should only be "denied" rather than destroyed. Absolutely idiotic. And yes you have A 300m range with the FG, have you ever tried to hit anything at that range? Better hope its stationary and you don't have infantry trying to chew you up. 1. thier assets and CCP wants av to be area denial 2. i dont want to "pwn" everything, just have a chance of survival, and av should get 35 wp for damaging vehicles, 100 for destroying LAV's 3. yes and it's very easy, i hit lav's too, and i've used a rail installatn at my base on that huge open map on domination killed a dropship by the objective, lets just say it was "falling" recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Foxhound Elite Valor Coalition Proficiency V. 445	Posted - 2013.11.29 15:46:00 - [58] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I am pretty sure as far dropships go the forge will be as broken in 1.7 as it is now. Even with the DS speed increase that 300m range and the fact they can pop out of any uplink, and corner or from any supply depot, makes protecting oneself, by correct and intelligent use of active modules almost impossible. There is no warning, no locating it and extreme difficulty in killing it. All we can do is collect the evidence of the imbalance and submit this to CCP. Politely. Accurately and with maturity. At the same time, I will also report to CCP if swarms seem to weak. Dropship pilots want balance and fun. Not carte blanche freedom to freely roam. I am speced deeply into both swarms and forge guns. So i will be trying both sides. Again Judge, you get the point across of most pilots opinions without rage and frustration (which I am especially guilty of). Judge for vehicle CPM ! Python pilot, troop-transport specialist and an all-round ballbag.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1427	Posted - 2013.11.29 16:13:00 - [59] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Atim wrote: If you can easily solo a vehicle with STD AV, then it was a poorly fit vehicle. There is no getting around that and if you are quickly taken down by one guy running STD AV you need to start using hardners and (while I hate to use this) "GET GOOD". 1.) Tanks and all vehicles (besides DSs) are self sustainable. They only require one person to operate and you are not required to use teamwork in any condition, shape, fashion, or form to be successful. 1. my infantry doesn't need teamwork so thats invalid 2. i use teamwork with tanks so HTFU 3. the rest disregarded as thats just sily and a poor example 4. in BF3 it takes teamwork to destroy vehicles, in bf3&4 it takes teamwork to destroy a scout heli with engineers, tanks are a team asset, besides you can easily hide from tanks. 5. i destroy tanks solo but not in 1 second, 6k hp tanks i get the drop on or i spam AV from hives. 6. i and they use hardeners so saying "get good" is invalid as AV is in such a OP state that it's going to kill 1.) It doesn't need teamwork, but you will be utterly destroyed unless you use teamwork 2.) Are you required to? No. And while we're at it, why don't you HTFU and stop QQIng. I can only fill so many buckets at a time. 3.) Disregard it if you like, but that still doesn't make my statement any less true. 4.) In BF3? Oh yes we should make this like other games! That's perfect. Let's make DUST 514 like other FPS titles! We should also make this like COD and lower the TTK even further! In other words, your an idiot. 5.) Anyone can solo anything. Just like I could start using melee attacks against a heavy and kill him that way. But how long do you think it would take? And AV grenades require you to get right in front of the vehicle, so 9/10 times, it's the driver's fault. 6.) I use hardners too. And because of this I don't get insta-killed or near insta-killed by PRO AV. If you use hardners,AV is a joke weapon. So yeah tankers are either not running hardners, they have poorly fit vehicles, or they are lying. (I already know that in most cases, all three are true. But the latter applies to almost everyone). Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
Ivy Zalinto Bobbit's Hangmen 44	Posted - 2013.11.29 17:25:00 - [60] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: [quote=Judge Rhadamanthus] Rails need a nerf, a counter, or anything viable to threaten them. Currently, the best option is to suicide a squad of AV grenade packed troops, but that's a farfetched tactic anyway. They do have a counter. With the rail cannon requiring usually a direct hit unless the person is seasoned with it, getting in close can be a death sentence to the tank. Otherwise you need multiple shots within three meters of your target. But a good shield tank wont let you get close enough to do that. That's the tanks tactic vs your own. You have to outmaneuver the one that has a mindset of outmaneuvering you Dedicated scout. Because the suit is underpowered. Imagine the good ones when we get buffed people ;)

Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 172	Posted - 2013.11.29 17:47:00 - [61] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Slag Emberforge wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Atim wrote: Tell me, how can you deny a vehicle of anything when the swarms do minimal damage and the vehicle can easily evade the attack with minimal harm and escape easily? thats denying an area And there we go, the problem with vehicle mentality, you should be able to roll in and kill infantry, LAVs, and Dropships, but you should only be "denied" rather than destroyed. Absolutely idiotic. And yes you have A 300m range with the FG, have you ever tried to hit anything at that range? Better hope its stationary and you don't have infantry trying to chew you up. 1. thier assets and CCP wants av to be area denial 2. i dont want to "pwn" everything, just have a chance of survival, and av should get 35 wp for damaging vehicles, 100 for destroying LAV's 3. yes and it's very easy, i hit lav's too, and i've used a rail installatn at my base on that huge open map on domination killed a dropship by the objective, lets just say it was "falling" 1. CCP stated AV should be able to deny vehicles, they did not say AV should not be able to destroy them. 2. I don't know if I buy this, if you aren't able to be destroyed only denied, and you have the firepower that turrets already have, there would be no way you wouldn't faceroll everything. 3. Rail installation and forge gun are not the same, method and rate of fire, ammunition, reload mechanic, among reticle, and max range are different on both weapons, not to mention when you are done using the installation toucan simply leave and resume whatever role your drop suit was configured for. Unlike AV players that make a trade off AI killing ability or support to protect their team against vehicles. Rail installation: 1.5 second charge up 3 consecutive shots with tiny delay 600m range Unlimited ammunition No reload - heat mechanic to prevent endless spamming Independent of drop suit Better aiming mechanics Can survive 2-3 direct FG shots, swarms, av nades Forge Gun With skills takes between 1.75 - 2 seconds per shot 300m range Limited ammunition Reload after 4 shots Require heavy suit Requires removal of primary AI Can be killed by any means other than av, unless in a lav -> kill able by any means.
Pvt Numnutz Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 364	Posted - 2013.11.29 18:15:00 - [62] - Quote Foxhound Elite wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I am pretty sure as far dropships go the forge will be as broken in 1.7 as it is now. Even with the DS speed increase that 300m range and the fact they can pop out of any uplink, and corner or from any supply depot, makes protecting oneself, by correct and intelligent use of active modules almost impossible. There is no warning, no locating it and extreme difficulty in killing it. All we can do is collect the evidence of the imbalance and submit this to CCP. Politely. Accurately and with maturity. At the same time, I will also report to CCP if swarms seem to weak. Dropship pilots want balance and fun. Not carte blanche freedom to freely roam. I am speced deeply into both swarms and forge guns. So i will be trying both sides. Again Judge, you get the point across of most pilots opinions without rage and frustration (which I am especially guilty of). Judge for vehicle CPM ! He already has my vote!
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 146	Posted - 2013.11.29 18:38:00 - [63] - Quote Atim wrote: 6.) I use hardners too. And because of this I don't get insta-killed or near insta-killed by PRO AV. If you use hardners,AV is a joke weapon. So yeah tankers are either not running hardners, they have poorly fit vehicles, or they are lying. (I already know that in most cases, all three are true. But the latter applies to almost everyone). And AV grenades require you to get right in front of the vehicle, so 9/10 times, it's the driver's fault. 4.) In BF3? Oh yes we should make this like other games! That's perfect. Let's make DUST 514 like other FPS titles! We should also make this like COD and lower the TTK even further! In other words, your an idiot. atim, your an idiot 1. you are lying tanks get destroyed even with dual hardeners, or at least when 1 is on cooldown 2. another lie, i can throw av nades around 20M if you aim higher 3. you just went full ******, i stated any game with vehicles it takes multiple people to take down, dont give me that bullshit "lets make this like every game recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 146	Posted - 2013.11.29 18:41:00 - [64] - Quote Atim wrote: insert retardation here 1.) It doesn't need teamwork, but you will be utterly destroyed unless you use teamwork" i destroy people solo, i only get destroyed against proto squads so HTFU just admit you want to insta kill vehicles with 3 shots already recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 172	Posted - 2013.11.29 18:47:00 - [65] - Quote A hardener and a report or hardener and nitrous has allowed dozens of tanks get away in the matches I've been in . The tanks that I get to blow up fall into the following divisions: 1. **** Fit 2. Lol god- mode I don't need to pay attention to my health 3. Unwilling to take cover when under assault. 4. Hot drop tanks into active combat zones (asking for it) 5. Glass cannons focused on maximum slaughter. And I give Atiim credit, I've seen him tank, I've got the drop and blown up his tank before, that said he has a knack for pulling the cockroach maneuver and scurrying under cover BEFORE his tank is in critical condition. Which is how you extend the life of a tank in the first place.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 146	Posted - 2013.11.29 18:54:00 - [66] - Quote Slag Emberforge wrote: A hardener and a report or hardener and nitrous has allowed dozens of tanks get away in the matches I've been in . The tanks that I get to blow up fall into the following divisions: 1. **** Fit 2. Lol god- mode I don't need to pay attention to my health 3. Unwilling to take cover when under assault. 4. Hot drop tanks into active combat zones (asking for it) 5. Glass cannons focused on maximum slaughter. And I give Atiim credit, I've seen him tank, I've got the drop and blown up his tank before, that said he has a knack for pulling the cockroach maneuver and scurrying under cover BEFORE his tank is in critical condition. Which is how you extend the life of a tank in the first place. yeah, then get killed on cooldown as armor tanks rely on actives, only way to survive is GTFO halfway in your rep or kill him, assuming he has at least ADV av, the point is you have to flee from 1 guy alot, but sometimes i dont, oh and adv or pro AV nades are pure bullshit, spam 3 in 1 second recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 173	Posted - 2013.11.29 19:21:00 - [67] - Quote I use standard nades, I have to be self sufficient against infantry to stick around long enough to be useful for AV, I have heard that sentiment quite a bit though. This may change a bit with 1.7, but is not CCP pushing this "waves of opportunity" concept? Sounds exactly like coming in, blowing cool downs and gtfo. If you think having to hit and run is bullshit this might not be the game for you.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 146	Posted - 2013.11.30 03:36:00 - [68] - Quote Slag Emberforge wrote: I use standard nades, I have to be self sufficient against infantry to stick around long enough to be useful for AV, I have heard that sentiment quite a bit though. This may change a bit with 1.7, but is not CCP pushing this "waves of opportunity" concept? Sounds exactly like coming in, blowing cool downs and gtfo. If you think having to hit and run is bullshit this might not be the game for you. current tanks are: ... run, i can hit and run if the speed wasn't crap recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit


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