DUST Search - change to swarm launchers good and bad

Foundation Seldon wrote:

Vulpes Dolosus wrote:

Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:

I am pretty sure as far dropships go the forge will be as broken in 1.7 as it is now. Even with the DS speed increase that 300m range and the fact they can pop out of any uplink, and corner or from any supply depot, makes protecting oneself, by correct and intelligent use of active modules almost impossible.

There is no warning, no locating it and extreme difficulty in killing it. All we can do is collect the evidence of the imbalance and submit this to CCP. Politely. Accurately and with maturity. At the same time, I will also report to CCP if swarms seem to weak. Dropship pilots want balance and fun. Not carte blanche freedom to freely roam.

I am speced deeply into both swarms and forge guns. So i will be trying both sides.

I'm less worried about forges than I am about rail tanks.

Rail are more powerful with longer range and accuracy. On top of that, they are impossible to kill due to their high health and tendency to camp the redline. On top of that, our one advantage against them (their low vertical aiming), can easily be mitigated by a small hill tilting the tank upwards.

Rails need a nerf, a counter, or anything viable to threaten them. Currently, the best option is to suicide a squad of AV grenade packed troops, but that's a farfetched tactic anyway.

Don't forget about the 1.7 buff to Large Rails on top of all that you mentioned. Now they do Compressed Railgun damage at Normal Railgun rate of fire and heat gain ... and THEN they added 30% active vehicle damage mods to the game. Redline railing will be far more potent than it is now as a result and Dropships, with their increased reliance on active resist mods in order to tank any sort of significant damage, will be the easiest targets to tag.

Stick to Ambush, guys.

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Pvt Numnutz Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 354	Posted - 2013.11.28 17:02:00 - [1] - Quote The change to swarm launchers is good, finally bringing them into balance. I'm very happy that this change is taking place. However I keep seeing threads of swarm launcher useres saying that they are going to be specing into the forge gun because they don't believe swarms will be useful or have an intended role. This is bad for any pilot or tanker as we all know one forge gun on the field makes vehicles useless. If they were in abundance, like swarm launchers are in abundance, then vehicle pilots face their most serious threat yet. If two people get annoyed by a tank or dropship they can just switch out to a forge gun 3 shot whatever vehicle was on the field and switch back. Why do swarm launcher useres want forge guns now? Because swarms aren't going to be nearly as easy to use in 1.7 as they are now. So they want av that is easy to use with as little skill and effort as possible. Prove me wrong.
Cody Sietz Unkn0wn Killers Renegade Alliance 1619	Posted - 2013.11.28 17:06:00 - [2] - Quote I'm staying with swarms, but only cause it was the one option for dealing with armour tanks at range as a medium/light. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 790	Posted - 2013.11.28 17:13:00 - [3] - Quote I am pretty sure as far dropships go the forge will be as broken in 1.7 as it is now. Even with the DS speed increase that 300m range and the fact they can pop out of any uplink, and corner or from any supply depot, makes protecting oneself, by correct and intelligent use of active modules almost impossible. There is no warning, no locating it and extreme difficulty in killing it. All we can do is collect the evidence of the imbalance and submit this to CCP. Politely. Accurately and with maturity. At the same time, I will also report to CCP if swarms seem to weak. Dropship pilots want balance and fun. Not carte blanche freedom to freely roam. I am speced deeply into both swarms and forge guns. So i will be trying both sides. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Syeven Reed RETR0 PR0 GAMERS 194	Posted - 2013.11.28 17:48:00 - [4] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I am pretty sure as far dropships go the forge will be as broken in 1.7 as it is now. Even with the DS speed increase that 300m range and the fact they can pop out of any uplink, and corner or from any supply depot, makes protecting oneself, by correct and intelligent use of active modules almost impossible. There is no warning, no locating it and extreme difficulty in killing it. All we can do is collect the evidence of the imbalance and submit this to CCP. Politely. Accurately and with maturity. At the same time, I will also report to CCP if swarms seem to weak. Dropship pilots want balance and fun. Not carte blanche freedom to freely roam. I am speced deeply into both swarms and forge guns. So i will be trying both sides. Very well said, have a like! Gÿé Syeven 514
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 342	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:06:00 - [5] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I am pretty sure as far dropships go the forge will be as broken in 1.7 as it is now. Even with the DS speed increase that 300m range and the fact they can pop out of any uplink, and corner or from any supply depot, makes protecting oneself, by correct and intelligent use of active modules almost impossible. There is no warning, no locating it and extreme difficulty in killing it. All we can do is collect the evidence of the imbalance and submit this to CCP. Politely. Accurately and with maturity. At the same time, I will also report to CCP if swarms seem to weak. Dropship pilots want balance and fun. Not carte blanche freedom to freely roam. I am speced deeply into both swarms and forge guns. So i will be trying both sides. I'm less worried about forges than I am about rail tanks. Rail are more powerful with longer range and accuracy. On top of that, they are impossible to kill due to their high health and tendency to camp the redline. On top of that, our one advantage against them (their low vertical aiming), can easily be mitigated by a small hill tilting the tank upwards. Rails need a nerf, a counter, or anything viable to threaten them. Currently, the best option is to suicide a squad of AV grenade packed troops, but that's a farfetched tactic anyway. Dropship Specialist: AKA Clinically Insane Kills- Incubus: 2; Pythons: 0; Logistics: 0; Militia: 13; Tanks: 2
Pvt Numnutz Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 356	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:16:00 - [6] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I am pretty sure as far dropships go the forge will be as broken in 1.7 as it is now. Even with the DS speed increase that 300m range and the fact they can pop out of any uplink, and corner or from any supply depot, makes protecting oneself, by correct and intelligent use of active modules almost impossible. There is no warning, no locating it and extreme difficulty in killing it. All we can do is collect the evidence of the imbalance and submit this to CCP. Politely. Accurately and with maturity. At the same time, I will also report to CCP if swarms seem to weak. Dropship pilots want balance and fun. Not carte blanche freedom to freely roam. I am speced deeply into both swarms and forge guns. So i will be trying both sides. Indeed. I don't ever want my dropship to become overpowered. I am much more interested in good fights and entertaining engagements. I am a littke nervous of the spash damage missiles are getting and will be experimenting with gunners and my xt fragmented missiles, if i find them to be too strong i will post it here. I believe swarms will be more interesting after 1.7 You accurately stated what I feel is wrong with forge guns and I do hope some action is taken in the interest of balance. though ill probably make a separate thread about that.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 145	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:21:00 - [7] - Quote change forge damage BF3 style forge guns: 40% damage vs. dropships=550-600 dmg, not too high not low 100 dmg nerf all tiers maybe, nerf AFG damage by 500 mass drivers: 70% damage vs dropships recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1794	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:25:00 - [8] - Quote Come on OP they wont swap from the SL to the FG, that requires aim and they dont have any
Foundation Seldon Gespenster Kompanie Villore Accords 231	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:27:00 - [9] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I am pretty sure as far dropships go the forge will be as broken in 1.7 as it is now. Even with the DS speed increase that 300m range and the fact they can pop out of any uplink, and corner or from any supply depot, makes protecting oneself, by correct and intelligent use of active modules almost impossible. There is no warning, no locating it and extreme difficulty in killing it. All we can do is collect the evidence of the imbalance and submit this to CCP. Politely. Accurately and with maturity. At the same time, I will also report to CCP if swarms seem to weak. Dropship pilots want balance and fun. Not carte blanche freedom to freely roam. I am speced deeply into both swarms and forge guns. So i will be trying both sides. I'm less worried about forges than I am about rail tanks. Rail are more powerful with longer range and accuracy. On top of that, they are impossible to kill due to their high health and tendency to camp the redline. On top of that, our one advantage against them (their low vertical aiming), can easily be mitigated by a small hill tilting the tank upwards. Rails need a nerf, a counter, or anything viable to threaten them. Currently, the best option is to suicide a squad of AV grenade packed troops, but that's a farfetched tactic anyway. Don't forget about the 1.7 buff to Large Rails on top of all that you mentioned. Now they do Compressed Railgun damage at Normal Railgun rate of fire and heat gain ... and THEN they added 30% active vehicle damage mods to the game. Redline railing will be far more potent than it is now as a result and Dropships, with their increased reliance on active resist mods in order to tank any sort of significant damage, will be the easiest targets to tag. Stick to Ambush, guys. 1.7 LAVs - Thoughts and Discussion
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 145	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:28:00 - [10] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Come on OP they wont swap from the SL to the FG, that requires slight hipfire aim against big targets with basically hitscan and they dont have any if not abusing high places fixed recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit

Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 931	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:29:00 - [11] - Quote A former HAV user, and today I fielded my cheap BPO std without dmg mod swarm fit and killed two madrugars easily... Damn that was easy kills.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 145	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:30:00 - [12] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: Don't forget about the 1.7 buff to Large Rails on top of all that you mentioned. Now they do Compressed Railgun damage at Normal Railgun rate of fire and heat gain ... and THEN they added 30% active vehicle damage mods to the game. Redline railing will be far more potent than it is now as a result and Dropships, with their increased reliance on active resist mods in order to tank any sort of significant damage, will be the easiest targets to tag. Stick to Ambush, guys. railguns: 40% damage vs dropships, as a start of balance recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Fox Gaden Bojo's School of the Trades 1641	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:31:00 - [13] - Quote As the guy who wrote the Swarm Launcher guide, I am taking a wait and see approach. I think the range nerf is reasonable, although it is going to make swarms less effective against dropships. As for the rest of it, I will have to try it in 1.7 and see how it balances against the vehicle changes. Renier Gaden: CEO of Immortal Guides Fox Gaden: TCO & TMO for BSotT Crash Gaden: Operations Director, Immortal Guide
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 145	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:33:00 - [14] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: A former HAV user, and today I fielded my cheap BPO std without dmg mod swarm fit and killed two madrugars easily... Damn that was easy kills. my std av nades & swarms eat tanks: +150 o's for breakfast recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 145	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:34:00 - [15] - Quote change forge damage BF3 style forge guns: 40% damage vs. dropships=550-600 dmg, not too high not low 100 dmg nerf all tiers maybe, nerf AFG damage by 500 mass drivers: 70% damage vs dropships railguns: 40% damage vs dropships, as a start of balance recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 719	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:45:00 - [16] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Foundation Seldon wrote: Don't forget about the 1.7 buff to Large Rails on top of all that you mentioned. Now they do Compressed Railgun damage at Normal Railgun rate of fire and heat gain ... and THEN they added 30% active vehicle damage mods to the game. Redline railing will be far more potent than it is now as a result and Dropships, with their increased reliance on active resist mods in order to tank any sort of significant damage, will be the easiest targets to tag. Stick to Ambush, guys. railguns: 40% damage vs dropships, as a start of balance yes, because your non combat craft should be immune to fire, unlike everything else on the field. Guess what? I have to deal with AV fire and I'm a ****-ton slower than you, since I'm a tank. Nut up and deal with the flak if you want to fly in the warzone, wuss. If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
Pvt Numnutz Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 357	Posted - 2013.11.28 19:19:00 - [17] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Foundation Seldon wrote: Don't forget about the 1.7 buff to Large Rails on top of all that you mentioned. Now they do Compressed Railgun damage at Normal Railgun rate of fire and heat gain ... and THEN they added 30% active vehicle damage mods to the game. Redline railing will be far more potent than it is now as a result and Dropships, with their increased reliance on active resist mods in order to tank any sort of significant damage, will be the easiest targets to tag. Stick to Ambush, guys. railguns: 40% damage vs dropships, as a start of balance yes, because your non combat craft should be immune to fire, unlike everything else on the field. Guess what? I have to deal with AV fire and I'm a ****-ton slower than you, since I'm a tank. Nut up and deal with the flak if you want to fly in the warzone, wuss. Non combat craft? Okaaay..... Yes you do have to deal with av as well, yes you are slower but you have quite a bit more HP than dropships. I have sucked it up for months, however the forge gun is far too easy and beats my months of training because lol 2 shot. Forge guns pose a serious threat to dropships, I don't want them to not pose a serious threat either. I just want the forge gun to be a little more balanced so I'm not banging my head against a wall everytime I lose a very expensive dropship (that I worked hard on the ground to buy) in 5 seconds. I'm going to post another thread about forge guns with all of this information. I'm not looking for a hand out, just a hand.
Pvt Numnutz Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 357	Posted - 2013.11.28 19:22:00 - [18] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Come on OP they wont swap from the SL to the FG, that requires aim and they dont have any They have to get a lock which is almost aiming, and two guys with forge guns only have to get lucky once. I'm afraid that because one av weapon is being balanced we will see a lot more use of the overpowered one. Forge guns really aren't that hard to use, even a swarm launcher guy could figure it out in a couple days.
EternalRMG KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 639	Posted - 2013.11.28 20:14:00 - [19] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I am pretty sure as far dropships go the forge will be as broken in 1.7 as it is now. Even with the DS speed increase that 300m range and the fact they can pop out of any uplink, and corner or from any supply depot, makes protecting oneself, by correct and intelligent use of active modules almost impossible. There is no warning, no locating it and extreme difficulty in killing it. All we can do is collect the evidence of the imbalance and submit this to CCP. Politely. Accurately and with maturity. At the same time, I will also report to CCP if swarms seem to weak. Dropship pilots want balance and fun. Not carte blanche freedom to freely roam. I am speced deeply into both swarms and forge guns. So i will be trying both sides. I'm less worried about forges than I am about rail tanks. Rail are more powerful with longer range and accuracy. On top of that, they are impossible to kill due to their high health and tendency to camp the redline. On top of that, our one advantage against them (their low vertical aiming), can easily be mitigated by a small hill tilting the tank upwards. Rails need a nerf, a counter, or anything viable to threaten them. Currently, the best option is to suicide a squad of AV grenade packed troops, but that's a farfetched tactic anyway. Don't forget about the 1.7 buff to Large Rails on top of all that you mentioned. Now they do Compressed Railgun damage at Normal Railgun rate of fire and heat gain ... and THEN they added 30% active vehicle damage mods to the game. Redline railing will be far more potent than it is now as a result and Dropships, with their increased reliance on active resist mods in order to tank any sort of significant damage, will be the easiest targets to tag. Stick to Ambush, guys. Because of that DropShips will be the ones who must take care of those tanks, they can fly over them, away from the line of fire, and hit them hard Because redline tanks aren meant to be engaged, they wont have much HP, what will make them easier to kill with a derpship "Fight Togheter; Win Together" Duster Since: July 2012 Best DropShip Pilot; Soon To be best Jet Fighter Pilot
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 584	Posted - 2013.11.28 20:24:00 - [20] - Quote swarms will be just fine in my hands my AV fit scout g-I advanced swarms advanced AV grenades standard scanner I engage tanks within throwing range of my grenades (30-40 meters) I sneak up on them throw 3 AV grenades then I swarm until hes evacuated or dead there is no reason to cry over the AV nerf (these items have been OP for way too long) SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5374	Posted - 2013.11.28 20:27:00 - [21] - Quote I'll leave this right here... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3au9H-NcgSw CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5374	Posted - 2013.11.28 20:30:00 - [22] - Quote PS: I invested enough SP to use advanced swarm launchers and I'm ok with this new change. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Reign Omega BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 48	Posted - 2013.11.28 20:42:00 - [23] - Quote As someone with Proto-AV, I welcome the change. I faceroll 90% of tankers by myself, and I can now definitely see when there is a good tanker on the field because I have to coordinate my attack with a squad/teammate or I have to devote quite a bit of time to a stalk and kill, setting a somewhat elaborate trap that usually costs me some suits in the face of infantry. I'm ok with it. I do miss the days of the sit up high and maul every vehicle that I see, but I can also agree it was lazy SP. I look forward to seeing what 1.7 has in store for me on the Vehicle and AV side, as I have a character dedicated to both.
Reign Omega BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 48	Posted - 2013.11.28 20:43:00 - [24] - Quote Side note, I hope CCP fixes the lock on issue, where my Swarm will lock on to something I can't even hit at the range I am.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1412	Posted - 2013.11.28 20:54:00 - [25] - Quote Aww man. I wanted the big boys like Charlotte, Void, and Spkr to come out. Heck even 'Ol Ben would suffice. Why did the LOLTank Brigade send you of all people? Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1412	Posted - 2013.11.28 21:16:00 - [26] - Quote To answer the OP, We are changing to FGs in 1.7 because we don't think that our PRO weapons should do minimal damage to a vehicle We also are switching to FGs because it will take multiple people to destroy one vehicle. Which is disgustingly sick considering how it only takes one person to operate what is quite literally the easiest role in the game, as well as one that doesn't require even teamwork. I on the other hand, find it quite impossible to switch considering how I use both FGs and SLs. "Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me" -such is the motto of vehicle pilots Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
Blaze Ashra Ametat Security Amarr Empire 31	Posted - 2013.11.28 21:17:00 - [27] - Quote Atiim wrote: Aww man. I wanted the big boys like Charlotte, Void, and Spkr to come out. Heck even 'Ol Ben would suffice. Why did the LOLTank Brigade send you of all people? This is more of a dropship user issue if you haven't noticed. We just happen to coincide in that we use vehicles and vehicle modules. See the quote below ant tell me if you think he cares one iota. Dropships should be balanced with forges and large rail turrets, Tanks should be balanced with swarms, large blaster and missile turrets and AV grenades. Heathen Bastard wrote: yes, because your non combat craft should be immune to fire, unlike everything else on the field. Guess what? I have to deal with AV fire and I'm a ****-ton slower than you, since I'm a tank. Nut up and deal with the flak if you want to fly in the warzone, wuss. Though he does have a fair point about trying to make invincible dropships.
Blaze Ashra Ametat Security Amarr Empire 32	Posted - 2013.11.28 21:24:00 - [28] - Quote Atiim wrote: To answer the OP, We are changing to FGs in 1.7 because we don't think that our PRO weapons should do minimal damage to a vehicle We also are switching to FGs because it will take multiple people to destroy one vehicle. Which is disgustingly sick considering how it only takes one person to operate what is quite literally the easiest role in the game, as well as one that doesn't require even teamwork. I on the other hand, find it quite impossible to switch considering how I use both FGs and SLs. "Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me" -such is the motto of vehicle pilots Really Atilm? Dropships are the easiest role in the game? Go take your vehicle hate to a tanker thread please.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1415	Posted - 2013.11.28 21:29:00 - [29] - Quote Blaze Ashra wrote: Really Atim? Dropships are the easiest role in the game? Go take your vehicle hate to a tanker thread please. Well this was directed towards HAVs. You know, considering how the OP mentions HAVs. And why do you believe that I hate vehicles? Because I don't want them becoming a FoTM? Also, that doesn't make what I said any less true. Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
Pvt Numnutz Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 357	Posted - 2013.11.28 21:40:00 - [30] - Quote Atiim wrote: To answer the OP, We are changing to FGs in 1.7 because we don't think that our PRO weapons should do minimal damage to a vehicle We also are switching to FGs because it will take multiple people to destroy one vehicle. Which is disgustingly sick considering how it only takes one person to operate what is quite literally the easiest role in the game, as well as one that doesn't require even teamwork. I on the other hand, find it quite impossible to switch considering how I use both FGs and SLs. "Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me" -such is the motto of vehicle pilots Vehicles are also loosing some HP too. The whole concept of a dropship is teamwork. A dropship is nothing without gunners or mercs to drop. Saying that a dropship doesn't require teamwork is wrong, just wrong. I believe that quote came from a vehicle pilot making a point about how av mercs think av should work. Atiim wrote: We also are switching to FGs because it will take multiple people to destroy one vehicle. Which is disgustingly sick Thank you for proving his point.



Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page