Vehicles are also loosing some HP too.

The whole concept of a dropship is teamwork. A dropship is nothing without gunners or mercs to drop. Saying that a dropship doesn't require teamwork is wrong, just wrong.

I believe that quote came from a vehicle pilot making a point about how av mercs think av should work.

Thank you for proving his point.

"Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me" -such is the motto of vehicle pilots

And why do you believe that I hate vehicles? Because I don't want them becoming a FoTM?

Aww man. I wanted the big boys like Charlotte, Void, and Spkr to come out. Heck even 'Ol Ben would suffice.

Well this was directed towards HAVs.

You know, considering how the OP mentions HAVs.

Also, that doesn't make what I said any less true.

I am pretty sure as far dropships go the forge will be as broken in 1.7 as it is now. Even with the DS speed increase that 300m range and the fact they can pop out of any uplink, and corner or from any supply depot, makes protecting oneself, by correct and intelligent use of active modules almost impossible.

There is no warning, no locating it and extreme difficulty in killing it. All we can do is collect the evidence of the imbalance and submit this to CCP. Politely. Accurately and with maturity. At the same time, I will also report to CCP if swarms seem to weak. Dropship pilots want balance and fun. Not carte blanche freedom to freely roam.

I am speced deeply into both swarms and forge guns. So i will be trying both sides.

Aww man. I wanted the big boys like Charlotte, Void, and Spkr to come out. Heck even 'Ol Ben would suffice.

Why did the LOLTank Brigade send you of all people?

This statement was directed towards HAVs. Not Dropships. You can't tell me that with my 6+ months of piloting an HAV that they require teamwork. I'd love to see you try though.

Also, if your going to quote someone; then use the full quote. Don't cut or edit the quote to make your argument seem "better" or the other(s) "worser". That's called Libel. Do you work for Fox News by any chance?

Oh so I was correct in my statement:

To answer the OP,

We are changing to FGs in 1.7 because we don't think that our PRO weapons should do minimal damage to a vehicle

We also are switching to FGs because it will take multiple people to destroy one vehicle. Which is disgustingly sick considering how it only takes one person to operate what is quite literally the easiest role in the game, as well as one that doesn't require even teamwork.

I on the other hand, find it quite impossible to switch considering how I use both FGs and SLs.

"Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me" -such is the motto of AV infantry

I believe that quote originally ended with, such is the motto of av players. Sorry I didn't clarify that.

I was not quoting you there to make my argument better. Its simply what you said, and illustrates how av players believe av should be. The reason why people will be switching to using forgeguns is because they want to be able to destroy vehicles easily without much skill or effort. Or are you trying to say something else?
I don't work for fox, I wouldn't sell my soul like that.

i pwn tanks with my std av nades and std swarms quite often, it's actually easier than using a tank or dropship.
btw 1. tanks use a form of teamwork.
2. tank characters in games take multiple people to take down

The change to swarm launchers is good, finally bringing them into balance. I'm very happy that this change is taking place. However I keep seeing threads of swarm launcher useres saying that they are going to be specing into the forge gun because they don't believe swarms will be useful or have an intended role.

This is bad for any pilot or tanker as we all know one forge gun on the field makes vehicles useless. If they were in abundance, like swarm launchers are in abundance, then vehicle pilots face their most serious threat yet. If two people get annoyed by a tank or dropship they can just switch out to a forge gun 3 shot whatever vehicle was on the field and switch back.
Why do swarm launcher useres want forge guns now? Because swarms aren't going to be nearly as easy to use in 1.7 as they are now. So they want av that is easy to use with as little skill and effort as possible.
Prove me wrong.

The statement did originally end with that, but I use it in it's modified form to reflect what most vehicle pilots want, and have even openly said in multiple threads. But don't worry, I pay the creator (Spkr4TheDead), a total of 1 ISK in royalties every time I use that word.

Yes, I was trying to say something else. What I'm trying to say is we are switching to FGs because there is literally no point or reason to use the Swarm Launcher anymore. It's new model is going to defy the logic of all weapons.

Long range weapons are supposed have lower damage, but with the advantage of long range (with a few exceptions of course); and Short range weapons are supposed to deal huge amounts of damage with the drawbacks of short range.

Why would anyone use a weapon with both short range and lower amounts of damage? You can't give me a good reason as to why I should use the Swarm Launcher over the Forge Gun. I already know that the FG will also be nerfed into uselessness, so I'm going to finish skilling into my Large Railguns. It will clearly be the only viable AV weapon if we continue down this road, so why not get a head start?

To make things clearer, it's one of the same reasons why barely anyone uses a PLC.

Yeah this change breaks the rule that long range weapons have low damage, like the sniper rifle, forge gun, and large rail gun......
The swarm launcher isn't a short range weapon, what other weapon (aside from those mentioned above) can hit effectively at 175m?
The swarm launcher is meant to be used with another swarm launcher, hence the name swarm launcher. You're right about one thing, why use a swarm launcher when you could use a forge gun? Clearly the forge gun is out of balance, and its super easy to get kills. Only those that enjoy hunting vehicles will use swarms, or those who want to deny an area to vehicles.
I hope the forge isn't nerfed to uselessness, it should be an effective av weapon, however it shouldn't be overpowered either.
Stop running Away from having to use your brain, its not healthy

That's why I said with the exception of a few weapons.

No it's not. You can not show me a single quote or description from CCP saying that the SL is supposed to be as you just said. That's like me saying HAVs should be slow bricks that are completely dependent on LLAVs to survive and are destroyed easily without one. I don't have an exact quote or description from CCP, but I'm going to assume that it's called "Swarm Launcher" because it fires a swarm of rockets at it's targets.

Tell me, how can you deny a vehicle of anything when the swarms do minimal damage and the vehicle can easily evade the attack with minimal harm and escape easily? I'd love to see someone try to destroy a dropship with Swarms in 1.7.

And the small missile turrets will have 300HP of splash damage? Sounds like Assault Dropships will be the next FoTM to me. I could easily see them firing at infantry while staying above SL lock range. That creates semi-invincibility.

I do believe that 400m was way too long, but at 175m they will be a joke weapon. Right next to PLCs.

Heck, I want to see you or anyone attempt to give me a good reason as to why I should keep using SLs. To give pilots easy kills? Heck no. Infact, I'm gonna finish skilling into Large Railguns. It's already what most pilots want. HAVs being the best and/or only counter to themselves.

Just remember guys, FG range = 300m. Large Rail range = 600m b*tch less about FG and more bout the return of redline railing

All vehicles should not be able to shoot in redline.

Even Sniper tanks should exit it to shoot.

So you think redline AV is a problem, yet redline tanking is perfectly fine?

Another double standard. And I though I heard all of the pilot ones.

What a shame

....Where did I say that? Redline tanking is a problem. I said they need to exit to shoot, Atiim. lol

If you can easily solo a vehicle with STD AV, then it was a poorly fit vehicle. There is no getting around that and if you are quickly taken down by one guy running STD AV you need to start using hardners and (while I hate to use this) "GET GOOD".

1.) Tanks and all vehicles (besides DSs) are self sustainable. They only require one person to operate and you are not required to use teamwork in any condition, shape, fashion, or form to be successful.

Why should any unit, class, suit, or weapon require teamwork and multiple people to take down

Tell me, how can you deny a vehicle of anything when the swarms do minimal damage and the vehicle can easily evade the attack with minimal harm and escape easily?

thats denying an area then lol, damm you av "special"ists cant think for crap

And there we go, the problem with vehicle mentality, you should be able to roll in and kill infantry, LAVs, and Dropships, but you should only be "denied" rather than destroyed. Absolutely idiotic.


And yes you have A 300m range with the FG, have you ever tried to hit anything at that range? Better hope its stationary and you don't have infantry trying to chew you up.

I am pretty sure as far dropships go the forge will be as broken in 1.7 as it is now. Even with the DS speed increase that 300m range and the fact they can pop out of any uplink, and corner or from any supply depot, makes protecting oneself, by correct and intelligent use of active modules almost impossible.

There is no warning, no locating it and extreme difficulty in killing it. All we can do is collect the evidence of the imbalance and submit this to CCP. Politely. Accurately and with maturity. At the same time, I will also report to CCP if swarms seem to weak. Dropship pilots want balance and fun. Not carte blanche freedom to freely roam.

I am speced deeply into both swarms and forge guns. So i will be trying both sides.

1. my infantry doesn't need teamwork so thats invalid
2. i use teamwork with tanks so HTFU
3. the rest disregarded as thats just sily and a poor example
4. in BF3 it takes teamwork to destroy vehicles, in bf3&4 it takes teamwork to destroy a scout heli with engineers, tanks are a team asset, besides you can easily hide from tanks.
5. i destroy tanks solo but not in 1 second, 6k hp tanks i get the drop on or i spam AV from hives.
6. i and they use hardeners so saying "get good" is invalid as AV is in such a OP state that it's going to kill

[quote=Judge Rhadamanthus]
Rails need a nerf, a counter, or anything viable to threaten them. Currently, the best option is to suicide a squad of AV grenade packed troops, but that's a farfetched tactic anyway.