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Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1328	Posted - 2013.11.25 01:52:00 - [91] - Quote ACE OF JOKERS wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Why must everything be based on such extremes? Because as it is we have 10 Proto Stompers going vs 8 Newberries fresh out from the academy. This is the matchmaking we have. What makes you think that if tanks become FOTM it wont be like Atiim foresees....? Something can't be FOTM if only 7 of it can be on the map at any time. Easily have 16 Cal Logis with PRO scrambler rifles per team, but only 7 vehicles are allowed per team. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4267	Posted - 2013.11.25 01:54:00 - [92] - Quote ACE OF JOKERS wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Why must everything be based on such extremes? Because as it is we have 10 Proto Stompers going vs 8 Newberries fresh out from the academy. This is the matchmaking we have. What makes you think that if tanks become FOTM it wont be like Atiim foresees....? The end result is the same, one team still stomps the other, you just have a bigger target to QQ about. There is no difference between the Tank and the Assault Suit at its most basic form of functionality. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 221	Posted - 2013.11.25 01:56:00 - [93] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: ACE OF JOKERS wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Why must everything be based on such extremes? Because as it is we have 10 Proto Stompers going vs 8 Newberries fresh out from the academy. This is the matchmaking we have. What makes you think that if tanks become FOTM it wont be like Atiim foresees....? Something can't be FOTM if only 7 of it can be on the map at any time. Easily have 16 Cal Logis with PRO scrambler rifles per team, but only 7 vehicles are allowed per team. 7 tanks as you call them: ''UNDERPOWERED'' Totally wreck the game balance AS IT IS. Depending on the map, ateam with 2-3 tanks can completely control the battlefield. now imagine With Nerfed AV weapons... Tanks can be Fotm, everybody using tanks, the 7 ones to call them in first can play at their fullest. Of course in the case a Tank is the best Tank counter could be Viable, if Matchmaking put say: 2 tankers in each side. But with the Matchmaking as it is, it would be 4+ tanks in one side, Infantry only on the other side, and for balance sake, Infantry will need a way to deal with said tanks. Its not too hard.
Mortedeamor WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL 845	Posted - 2013.11.25 01:58:00 - [94] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote: So make AV obsolete? K. I'll never understand the problem you all have with a tank being its own best counter. Why would I use AV if HAVs are 300x better? It encourages escalation game play. Current all AV does is reset the counter back to 0 v 0, Infy vs Infy Why do you not want to see matches with tanks rolling around fighting one another, dropship assault squads, etc? the solution call a soma cheap and fitted just to be able 2 take a hit not deal one...sit in it ina proto av suit...when all the tankers get greedy and rush you hop out and fire proto swarms at them insta popping them..will not set counter to 0,0 inftry vs infrty because the tankers will be too pissed to go back to infantry..i hada tanker spamm 9 madrugars at me today using this method ..he lost every one...i did not lose the soma.. currently till 1.7 proto swarms greater tank missiles
wayrow1 The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 20	Posted - 2013.11.25 02:06:00 - [95] - Quote locate tank stalk with level 5 wiyrkomi swarm launcher 3 damage mods 3000hp problem solved lol
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4267	Posted - 2013.11.25 02:08:00 - [96] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote: So make AV obsolete? K. I'll never understand the problem you all have with a tank being its own best counter. Why would I use AV if HAVs are 300x better? It encourages escalation game play. Current all AV does is reset the counter back to 0 v 0, Infy vs Infy Why do you not want to see matches with tanks rolling around fighting one another, dropship assault squads, etc? the solution call a soma cheap and fitted just to be able 2 take a hit not deal one...sit in it ina proto av suit...when all the tankers get greedy and rush you hop out and fire proto swarms at them insta popping them..will not set counter to 0,0 inftry vs infrty because the tankers will be too pissed to go back to infantry..i hada tanker spamm 9 madrugars at me today using this method ..he lost every one...i did not lose the soma.. currently till 1.7 proto swarms greater tank missiles Soma = King of Tanks. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 137	Posted - 2013.11.25 02:09:00 - [97] - Quote Atiim wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Atiim wrote: Not sure if trolling or being a legitimate dumbfluck Obviously lets the whole of the forums know you're terrible at tanking. Ooh, I haven't been on here for a while, I like your sig :D The funny part is how it's an exact opposite of the truth. Replace anti-vehicle infantry with pilots and you can summarize about 95% of their "balancing" threads.[/quote] i just solo'd a good 5000 shield gunlogi with STD swarms and STD av nades, so easy, he destroyed a scatered ion cannon but had full hp so suck on that newb, he used his booster when he took cover.[/quote] That's an obvious lie. My friend has a Gunnlogi with 4k shields and he survived 3 people using STD swarms. [/quote] dont need em, and i meant 5 mins earlier, i had him near D near a bridge so he couldn't escape, i had a hive too, love AV. but it took 2 swarm clips and 3 nades to kill, or 4 idk but he was screwed because his missiles barely hurt. recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 137	Posted - 2013.11.25 02:12:00 - [98] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote: So make AV obsolete? K. I'll never understand the problem you all have with a tank being its own best counter. Nobody has a problem with a sniper being it's own best counter but a tank oh no the best counter should not be a tank. IDR! people counter snipe but don't counter tank recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 137	Posted - 2013.11.25 02:15:00 - [99] - Quote Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: That's an obvious lie. My friend has a Gunnlogi with 4k shields and he survived 3 people using STD swarms. (I knew they were STD because the volleys only had 4 rockets). To put a more urban twist on things, "Pics or GTFO!" Its debatable Atiim. There are times when mu HAV seems like its doing its job well.....there are other where It seems weak as hell. As we have discussed before neither one of us is ambivalent enough to actually have a valid opinion since we are by far too biased. And our anecdotal evidence is pretty lack lustre Everything in both real life and in fictional situations such as video games have times where they are performing perfectly and other instances where they are performing poorly. I'd like to think that I'm unbiased. All I want is for people to stop trying to balance PRO weapons against STD hulls we only have STD, and EVERYONE has pro AV now. CCP is balancing what we have now ok? recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1329	Posted - 2013.11.25 02:27:00 - [100] - Quote wayrow1 wrote: locate tank stalk with level 5 wiyrkomi swarm launcher 3 damage mods 3000hp problem solved lol Easy mode Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.

True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4269	Posted - 2013.11.25 02:30:00 - [101] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: That's an obvious lie. My friend has a Gunnlogi with 4k shields and he survived 3 people using STD swarms. (I knew they were STD because the volleys only had 4 rockets). To put a more urban twist on things, "Pics or GTFO!" Its debatable Atiim. There are times when mu HAV seems like its doing its job well.....there are other where It seems weak as hell. As we have discussed before neither one of us is ambivalent enough to actually have a valid opinion since we are by far too biased. And our anecdotal evidence is pretty lack lustre Everything in both real life and in fictional situations such as video games have times where they are performing perfectly and other instances where they are performing poorly. I'd like to think that I'm unbiased. All I want is for people to stop trying to balance PRO weapons against STD hulls we only have STD, and EVERYONE has pro AV now. CCP is balancing what we have now ok? Gimme dat Proto Tank and we can talk.... but hell I don't even want a proto tanks. I want Marauders, siege breaking units, able to withstand massive enemy fire, barely able to move, and fire gun rounds with impunity, I want black ops units with fast mobile anti infantry cannon but lacking in armour and shields, or perhaps Enforcers with capacity for massive sustained AV fire, but lacking in proper light armaments. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 138	Posted - 2013.11.25 02:33:00 - [102] - Quote yea, we only have STD, combined with EVERYONE has pro AV, you need to balance around pro AV recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
4447 Resolution XIII 841	Posted - 2013.11.25 02:37:00 - [103] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Atiim wrote: Not sure if trolling or being a legitimate dumbfluck I have more likes than you, shut up :) lul "most of them from my alts", Quote. Creep, Radiohead.
Rusty Shallows 542	Posted - 2013.11.25 03:15:00 - [104] - Quote Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote: So make AV obsolete? K. I'll never understand the problem you all have with a tank being its own best counter. Nobody has a problem with a sniper being it's own best counter but a tank oh no the best counter should not be a tank. A sniper is not the best counter to a sniper. That title belongs to scouts with profile dampners If rendering is fixed/improved a top-notch counter to a Sniper will be a Rail Tank. This best-counters logic isn't important unless the question is why item B is not as good as item A at some task. I run in a heavy suit and in no way think the best counter should have to be another heavy. Battlefields should have a myriad of options. One of the worst things that can happen to this game is if it becomes a repetitive Rifleman vs Rifleman and HAV vs HAV. "She may not be Miss Right but she'll do right now." SR-71 310k+ SP for +0.05m/s (>2in) on a Heavy. Totally worth it.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1353	Posted - 2013.11.25 03:17:00 - [105] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: A brain makes a tank good. How is it not balanced? Explain yourself. LOLNO. ISK and SP makes a tank good. Tactics aren't even required. Tell me, and I want your honest answer. Do you think people will use AV when it would be easier to use an HAV. Why should I be forced to use an HAV to be good at taking out HAVs? Not quite sure you realize how that Idea would work out if implemented. Tanks would become the biggest FoTM this game has ever seen. You think Flaylocks and ARs are bad? Think Contact grenades deserved a spot in hell? Wait until you create a FoTM so big and powerful that the only way to combat it would be to use the FoTM. Making the FoTM even bigger! Oh wait, that's exactly what you want. Infantry to hit "leave battle" so tanks can do nothing but scratch themselves up and spin their wheels (technically treads, but still). Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4275	Posted - 2013.11.25 03:18:00 - [106] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote: So make AV obsolete? K. I'll never understand the problem you all have with a tank being its own best counter. Nobody has a problem with a sniper being it's own best counter but a tank oh no the best counter should not be a tank. A sniper is not the best counter to a sniper. That title belongs to scouts with profile dampners If rendering is fixed/improved a top-notch counter to a Sniper will be a Rail Tank. This best-counters logic isn't important unless the question is why item B is not as good as item A at some task. I run in a heavy suit and in no way think the best counter should have to be another heavy. Battlefields should have a myriad of options. One of the worst things that can happen to this game is if it becomes a repetitive Rifleman vs Rifleman and HAV vs HAV. but that's all this game is right now. Vehicles aren't allowed to coexist with infantry because of the current potency of AV vs vehicles. All AV does is reset to status quo infy vs infy.....and means we cannot escalate the fight to the massive battles that made me want to play this game from the 2009 trailer.... battlefield with its arcade mechanics and limited vehicle numbers....is already looking like a better alternative from a vehicle combat stand point. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1353	Posted - 2013.11.25 03:20:00 - [107] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: yea, we only have STD, combined with EVERYONE has pro AV, you need to balance around pro AV Yes, instead of adding ADV and PRO tanks we need to simply need to balance PRO gear around STD gear. While were at it, why not solve our "protostomping" issue by balancing PRO weapons around the [Starter] Medic fit. Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4275	Posted - 2013.11.25 03:22:00 - [108] - Quote Atiim wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: yea, we only have STD, combined with EVERYONE has pro AV, you need to balance around pro AV Yes, instead of adding ADV and PRO tanks we need to simply need to balance PRO gear around STD gear. While were at it, why not solve our "protostomping" issue by balancing PRO weapons around the [Starter] Medic fit. Nope I want my tanks balanced around your proto level swarms. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
SgtDoughnut Red Star Jr. EoN. 415	Posted - 2013.11.25 03:24:00 - [109] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: ACE OF JOKERS wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote: So make AV obsolete? K. I'll never understand the problem you all have with a tank being its own best counter. Nobody has a problem with a sniper being it's own best counter but a tank oh no the best counter should not be a tank. The sniper is not its best counter. EVERY SINGLE anti Infantry weapon kills them same as everybody else. There are LOTS of ways to kill a sniper, at the end of the day, hes just another merc in a suit.SMg,AR,PC,Mass driver,Locus G,etc... what makes it FEEL this way is Broken RED LINE mechanics. Tanks are already imprevious to most weapons except 4, and one of them being crappy as hell. What, you want automatic rifles to do more damage against tanks? And this is why I lump most tankers in with the kids who have to wear bike helmets to school, you think your only counter should be another tank, and hell be damned if anything else even hurts you. If you want to play world of tanks its =====> that way and its just as free as dust.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1356	Posted - 2013.11.25 03:45:00 - [110] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Why must everything be based on such extremes? Throw two in a squad and 14 randoms against 3 squads, but must balance the game on a hypothetical such as what if one team has 3 tankers and the other has none? Oh, I know, make AV work better than a tank. You want to balance on hypotheticals and BS. I want to balance based on each team's tanks taking each other out. Chromosome railguns were perfect at that, but it's not fair that a tank was its own best counter, so infantry had them nerfed again. Why must everything be based on such extremes you may ask? Because currently all I ever see in matches is extremes where "Que-synced" full squads of corps like Nyain San are placed in a match of nothing but randoms and going 40-0. Because this game's playerbase has the "Must stomp at all costs" mentality. Because if it can happen, it's going to happen. Lets take the logistics class for example. It was designed to be a versatile support class. But it also had the ability to tank better than assaults and most heavies, stack 3-4 complex damage mods, and a built in repair of 5HP/s. I'm sure that CCP didn't design the logistics class to be the best assault suit in the game with more eHP than the average heavy did they? But why did it become this way? What led to this extreme problem we have now? It's because it was designed to allow this to happen. It wasn't meant to be this way, but since the possibility was there and the "Must stomp at all costs mentality" was present as well, we have the 1000hp Medium Frames running PRO weapons with 3-4 stacked complex damage mods. Who needs a sidearm when your 4 complex damage mods can melt everything on sight? And the 1000hp doesn't do much in terms of penalties when they already have more stamina than a heavy and did you forget about the PRO Scanners? You know, the ones with godlike range and the ability to scan 99% of all scouts? Should a Medium Frame be the best counter to a Medium Frame? Should Light Frames be the best counter to Light Frames? Should Heavy Frames be the only counter to a Heavy Frame? If a game has a class so powerful that the only efficient and effective way to counter them is with the same class, it is a game that I and many people will agree is broken Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND

True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4280	Posted - 2013.11.25 03:50:00 - [111] - Quote SgtDoughnut wrote: ] And this is why I lump most tankers in with the kids who have to wear bike helmets to school, you think your only counter should be another tank, and hell be damned if anything else even hurts you. If you want to play world of tanks its =====> that way and its just as free as dust. Fair call but what incentive is there to spec vehicles when....they cost so much and vindictive bastards like Atiim and I are groundside with PRO swarms? Why would you lose upwards of 500K isk a match, for no effin respect, the inevitable loss of phasing SL, or invisible building Forgers? Answer is you wouldn't you can only wait for those inevitable extreme matches and stomp the **** out of the newbies because otherwise you tank is as good a scrap. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Our Deepest Regret The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 336	Posted - 2013.11.25 03:57:00 - [112] - Quote Atiim wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: A brain makes a tank good. How is it not balanced? Explain yourself. LOLNO. ISK and SP makes a tank good. Tactics aren't even required. . No, Isk and SP increases a tank's opportunity to survive. You can lose an expensive ride just as quickly as a cheap one.
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 227	Posted - 2013.11.25 03:58:00 - [113] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: yea, we only have STD, combined with EVERYONE has pro AV, you need to balance around pro AV Yes, instead of adding ADV and PRO tanks we need to simply need to balance PRO gear around STD gear. While were at it, why not solve our "protostomping" issue by balancing PRO weapons around the [Starter] Medic fit. Nope I want my tanks balanced around your proto level swarms. A tank with full modules can take 6+ Proto swarms, id say they can hold their ground pretty well.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4281	Posted - 2013.11.25 03:59:00 - [114] - Quote ACE OF JOKERS wrote: True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: yea, we only have STD, combined with EVERYONE has pro AV, you need to balance around pro AV Yes, instead of adding ADV and PRO tanks we need to simply need to balance PRO gear around STD gear. While were at it, why not solve our "protostomping" issue by balancing PRO weapons around the [Starter] Medic fit. Nope I want my tanks balanced around your proto level swarms. A tank with full modules can take 6+ Proto swarms, id say they can hold their ground pretty well. Dude you want to test that on my tank this evening? I doubt it can take six swarms..... if it can I will not bother QQing again. But I know your fits couple 3x Damage mods as well. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 138	Posted - 2013.11.25 04:01:00 - [115] - Quote Atiim wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: yea, we only have STD, combined with EVERYONE has pro AV, you need to balance around pro AV Yes, instead of adding ADV and PRO tanks we need to simply need to balance PRO gear around STD gear. While were at it, why not solve our "protostomping" issue by balancing PRO weapons around the [Starter] Medic fit. you know what? im done arguing with people like you, thats infantry, not a vehicle, and i've killed a sentinel AK.0 on my armor HAV alt with a starter fit in 1 clip, and we have both pro suits and pro weapons, so bye, get vehicles removed/vulnerable to ar's like you want. recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
SgtDoughnut Red Star Jr. EoN. 417	Posted - 2013.11.25 04:04:00 - [116] - Quote True Adamance wrote: SgtDoughnut wrote: ] And this is why I lump most tankers in with the kids who have to wear bike helmets to school, you think your only counter should be another tank, and hell be damned if anything else even hurts you. If you want to play world of tanks its =====> that way and its just as free as dust. Fair call but what incentive is there to spec vehicles when....they cost so much and vindictive bastards like Atiim and I are groundside with PRO swarms? Why would you lose upwards of 500K isk a match, for no effin respect, the inevitable loss of phasing SL, or invisible building Forgers? Answer is you wouldn't you can only wait for those inevitable extreme matches and stomp the **** out of the newbies because otherwise you tank is as good a scrap. Hey I want tanks to be powerful but most of these people don't want tanks to be even touched by infantry. Many of them are of the mind set that if its small enough to be carried by a single person it cannot hurt a tank. And this is just wrong, there are many weapons out there from the simple hand held grenade to our personal anti tank weaponry such as the RPG, that can easily disable a tank, they are so dangerous a tank commander will not send tanks into an area he knows there are RPG's being used in. Now you might say this is a game, and you are right, these tanks have projected shields, and much thicker armor than our current generation of tanks. However the weaponry we use is also much more powerful. In a 1 on 1 encounter an AV user if he is smart should be able to easily do enough damage to a tank to make a single manned tank retreat . However what these tankers want is the ability to totally ignore AV unless the entire other team is using them in a coordinated strike.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 138	Posted - 2013.11.25 04:04:00 - [117] - Quote ACE OF JOKERS wrote: True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: yea, we only have STD, combined with EVERYONE has pro AV, you need to balance around pro AV Yes, instead of adding ADV and PRO tanks we need to simply need to balance PRO gear around STD gear. While were at it, why not solve our "protostomping" issue by balancing PRO weapons around the [Starter] Medic fit. Nope I want my tanks balanced around your proto level swarms. A tank with full modules can take 6+ Proto swarms, id say they can hold their ground pretty well. thats 2 clips, thats barely anything, and if they survive more than you think they probably have a heavy efficient armor repearer going recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Our Deepest Regret The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 337	Posted - 2013.11.25 04:07:00 - [118] - Quote ACE OF JOKERS wrote: A tank with full modules can take 6+ Proto swarms, id say they can hold their ground pretty well. So you're idea of a strong tank is one that requires you to reload once before it pops?
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 227	Posted - 2013.11.25 04:20:00 - [119] - Quote Our Deepest Regret wrote: ACE OF JOKERS wrote: A tank with full modules can take 6+ Proto swarms, id say they can hold their ground pretty well. So you're idea of a strong tank is one that requires you to reload once before it pops? So your idea is for a tank to be able to take MORE than 6 Missile volleys in a row. PROTO MISSILES designed to DESTROY vehicles? I mean ,if after the first volley the tank hasn't gotten the f away,he deserves to die , of course... Even at PROTO level,Infatry does not just STAND taking damage...you move, take cover.Why should it be different for tanks?
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1333	Posted - 2013.11.25 04:24:00 - [120] - Quote ACE OF JOKERS wrote: Our Deepest Regret wrote: ACE OF JOKERS wrote: A tank with full modules can take 6+ Proto swarms, id say they can hold their ground pretty well. So you're idea of a strong tank is one that requires you to reload once before it pops? So your idea is for a tank to be able to take MORE than 6 Missile volleys in a row. PROTO MISSILES designed to DESTROY vehicles? I mean ,if after the first volley the tank hasn't gotten the f away,he deserves to die , of course... Even at PROTO level,Infatry does not just STAND taking damage...you move, take cover.Why should it be different for tanks? How many times do we have to tell you how to destroy us? Stop trying to solo tanks. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.



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