DUST Search - AVers, how to kill a tank.

All Channels

General Discussions

AVers, how to kill a tank.

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4244	Posted - 2013.11.24 19:46:00 - [1] - Quote Atiim wrote: That's an obvious lie. My friend has a Gunnlogi with 4k shields and he survived 3 people using STD swarms. (I knew they were STD because the volleys only had 4 rockets). To put a more urban twist on things, "Pics or GTFO!" Its debateable Atiim. There are times when mu HAV seems like its doing its job well.....there are other where It seems weak as hell. As we have discussed before neither one of us is ambivalent enough to actually have a valid opinion since we are by far too biased. And our anecdotal evidence is pretty lack lustre "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4244	Posted - 2013.11.24 20:23:00 - [2] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: That's an obvious lie. My friend has a Gunnlogi with 4k shields and he survived 3 people using STD swarms. (I knew they were STD because the volleys only had 4 rockets). To put a more urban twist on things, "Pics or GTFO!" Its debateable Atiim. There are times when mu HAV seems like its doing its job well.....there are other where It seems weak as hell. As we have discussed before neither one of us is ambivalent enough to actually have a valid opinion since we are by far too biased. And our anecdotal evidence is pretty lack lustre Shh your going to confuse it with all these big words. Atiim and I are foils of one another though he does not know it yet. He is quite capable I assure you....just misguided. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4248	Posted - 2013.11.24 21:28:00 - [3] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote: So make AV obsolete? K. I'll never understand the problem you all have with a tank being its own best counter. Nobody has a problem with a sniper being it's own best counter but a tank oh no the best counter should not be a tank. Then there is no point having tanks on the field..... most modern tanks are designed to deal with other armoured units not infantry, artillery deals with infantry. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4248	Posted - 2013.11.24 21:36:00 - [4] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: True Adamance wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote: So make AV obsolete? K. I'll never understand the problem you all have with a tank being its own best counter. Nobody has a problem with a sniper being it's own best counter but a tank oh no the best counter should not be a tank. Then there is no point having tanks on the field..... most modern tanks are designed to deal with other armoured units not infantry, artillery deals with infantry. I was being sarcastic I totally agree with Tanks being the best counter to other Tanks. I don't pick up on sarcasm well online....unless its really obvious "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4257	Posted - 2013.11.25 00:45:00 - [5] - Quote Atiim wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote: So make AV obsolete? K. I'll never understand the problem you all have with a tank being its own best counter. Why would I use AV if HAVs are 300x better? It encourages escalation game play. Current all AV does is reset the counter back to 0 v 0, Infy vs Infy Why do you not want to see matches with tanks rolling around fighting one another, dropship assault squads, etc? "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4260	Posted - 2013.11.25 00:59:00 - [6] - Quote Atiim wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Atiim wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote: So make AV obsolete? K. I'll never understand the problem you all have with a tank being its own best counter. Why would I use AV if HAVs are 300x better? But you can't destroy a tank using your own poorly fit tank because you're terrible, so of course you don't want a tank to be its own best counter. I think my best tank is pretty good. It can survive multiple people with AV while still being combat effective at the same time. The tank I was using when that ADS ambushed me in was a 400k tank that's good for healing other vehicles but does poorly in combat because it has no hardners or nitrous. Besides, even with Nitrous I would never have been able to evade the ADS, and I couldn't fire at him because he was directly above the turret and out of my tracking range/zone. I don't want HAVs to be the best or only counter because that's not balanced. (On another note, what makes a good HAV fit? Hardners? Nitrous? Active Scanners? Heat sink mods? Dmg control mods? if those make a tank good, then my tank is "awesome".) How is it not balanced. We are firing, primarily, frigate class Rail Guns and Blasters at one another.......... you are firing tiny little pellets and missiles from hand held platforms. Cant we just agree to make tanks more effective at killing one another, and less effective at Anti infantry. Artillery will do our ground trooper killing anyway. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4264	Posted - 2013.11.25 01:14:00 - [7] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote: So make AV obsolete? K. I'll never understand the problem you all have with a tank being its own best counter. Why would I use AV if HAVs are 300x better? It encourages escalation game play. Current all AV does is reset the counter back to 0 v 0, Infy vs Infy Why do you not want to see matches with tanks rolling around fighting one another, dropship assault squads, etc? Escalation gameplay is all well and good, but where do youbgo from tanks, MTAC's, Gunships? What happens when you reach the top? When you reach the top of escalation gameplay it becomes all about who has the most top level stuff at any one time! What you want is Cyclic gameplay, where everything beats everything in the right circumstances! Where it becomes what is deployed where, not how much of itl Examples Escalation Gameplay: Sid Mierer's Civilisation Cyclic Gameplay Tom Clancy's EndWar And where do vehicles get the benefits? Only ever on maps where the other team is too stupid not to field its OP AV, abuse roof tops, or poor tank rendering. I do not want to make infantry unusable they have their uses in entrenched positions, building, and to hack things, they should not be able to dominate in all things on all maps like they do now. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4267	Posted - 2013.11.25 01:44:00 - [8] - Quote Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote: So make AV obsolete? K. I'll never understand the problem you all have with a tank being its own best counter. Why would I use AV if HAVs are 300x better? It encourages escalation game play. Current all AV does is reset the counter back to 0 v 0, Infy vs Infy Why do you not want to see matches with tanks rolling around fighting one another, dropship assault squads, etc? You don't know how much I'd love to see this. Unfortunately, you also don't know how awful it would be if implemented with this game's current "I must stomp at all costs" playerbase rationale. You also don't understand how it wouldn't be fun when people start a battle just to find 7 tanks on the field while thier AV does little to no damage to them (even at PRO tier) and nobody on said player's team being a vehicle pilot. It sounds good on paper, but the actual implementation would be terrible. Just like the Commando class. That's why I have been lobbying to make Tanks ANTI VEHICLE weapons, with anti infantry only a very distant secondary role that requires skill shots like the current rail guns do now. AKA I want the large blaster removed. Give me Main Battle Cannon. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4267	Posted - 2013.11.25 01:45:00 - [9] - Quote Slag Emberforge wrote: Are not clones themselves the key to this whole thing? LAVs are quick cheap transport on flat terrain, DS are for transporting large numbers of troops over any terrain in order to gain strategic positions, are tanks not meant to fit a narrow role such as this? Tanks provide moving cover for infantry, they can provide area denial, act as a slayer, point defense, and destroy fixtures and installations including Enemy CRUs. This is a lot to offer in one package, yet they also do not have the downside of being nearly as easy to destroy as any other vehicle or infantry. Tanks are by no means underpowered, and using terrain and tactics to destroy them is not some sort of "abuse" the word you are looking for is called for tactics. It is an abuse if I know I should be able to see them...yet they remain brave and ******* cocky as hell off in some invisible force field.... "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4267	Posted - 2013.11.25 01:54:00 - [10] - Quote ACE OF JOKERS wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Why must everything be based on such extremes? Because as it is we have 10 Proto Stompers going vs 8 Newberries fresh out from the academy. This is the matchmaking we have. What makes you think that if tanks become FOTM it wont be like Atiim foresees....? The end result is the same, one team still stomps the other, you just have a bigger target to QQ about. There is no difference between the Tank and the Assault Suit at its most basic form of functionality. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"

True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4267	Posted - 2013.11.25 02:08:00 - [11] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote: So make AV obsolete? K. I'll never understand the problem you all have with a tank being its own best counter. Why would I use AV if HAVs are 300x better? It encourages escalation game play. Current all AV does is reset the counter back to 0 v 0, Infy vs Infy Why do you not want to see matches with tanks rolling around fighting one another, dropship assault squads, etc? the solution call a soma cheap and fitted just to be able 2 take a hit not deal one...sit in it ina proto av suit...when all the tankers get greedy and rush you hop out and fire proto swarms at them insta popping them..will not set counter to 0,0 inftry vs infrty because the tankers will be too pissed to go back to infantry..i hada tanker spamm 9 madrugars at me today using this method ..he lost every one...i did not lose the soma.. currently till 1.7 proto swarms greater tank missiles Soma = King of Tanks. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4269	Posted - 2013.11.25 02:30:00 - [12] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: That's an obvious lie. My friend has a Gunnlogi with 4k shields and he survived 3 people using STD swarms. (I knew they were STD because the volleys only had 4 rockets). To put a more urban twist on things, "Pics or GTFO!" Its debatable Atiim. There are times when mu HAV seems like its doing its job well.....there are other where It seems weak as hell. As we have discussed before neither one of us is ambivalent enough to actually have a valid opinion since we are by far too biased. And our anecdotal evidence is pretty lack lustre Everything in both real life and in fictional situations such as video games have times where they are performing perfectly and other instances where they are performing poorly. I'd like to think that I'm unbiased. All I want is for people to stop trying to balance PRO weapons against STD hulls we only have STD, and EVERYONE has pro AV now. CCP is balancing what we have now ok? Gimme dat Proto Tank and we can talk.... but hell I don't even want a proto tanks. I want Marauders, siege breaking units, able to withstand massive enemy fire, barely able to move, and fire gun rounds with impunity, I want black ops units with fast mobile anti infantry cannon but lacking in armour and shields, or perhaps Enforcers with capacity for massive sustained AV fire, but lacking in proper light armaments. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4275	Posted - 2013.11.25 03:18:00 - [13] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote: So make AV obsolete? K. I'll never understand the problem you all have with a tank being its own best counter. Nobody has a problem with a sniper being it's own best counter but a tank oh no the best counter should not be a tank. A sniper is not the best counter to a sniper. That title belongs to scouts with profile dampners If rendering is fixed/improved a top-notch counter to a Sniper will be a Rail Tank. This best-counters logic isn't important unless the question is why item B is not as good as item A at some task. I run in a heavy suit and in no way think the best counter should have to be another heavy. Battlefields should have a myriad of options. One of the worst things that can happen to this game is if it becomes a repetitive Rifleman vs Rifleman and HAV vs HAV. but that's all this game is right now. Vehicles aren't allowed to coexist with infantry because of the current potency of AV vs vehicles. All AV does is reset to status quo infy vs infy.....and means we cannot escalate the fight to the massive battles that made me want to play this game from the 2009 trailer.... battlefield with its arcade mechanics and limited vehicle numbers....is already looking like a better alternative from a vehicle combat stand point. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4275	Posted - 2013.11.25 03:22:00 - [14] - Quote Atiim wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: yea, we only have STD, combined with EVERYONE has pro AV, you need to balance around pro AV Yes, instead of adding ADV and PRO tanks we need to simply need to balance PRO gear around STD gear. While were at it, why not solve our "protostomping" issue by balancing PRO weapons around the [Starter] Medic fit. Nope I want my tanks balanced around your proto level swarms. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4280	Posted - 2013.11.25 03:50:00 - [15] - Quote SgtDoughnut wrote: ] And this is why I lump most tankers in with the kids who have to wear bike helmets to school, you think your only counter should be another tank, and hell be damned if anything else even hurts you. If you want to play world of tanks its =====> that way and its just as free as dust. Fair call but what incentive is there to spec vehicles when....they cost so much and vindictive bastards like Atiim and I are groundside with PRO swarms? Why would you lose upwards of 500K isk a match, for no effin respect, the inevitable loss of phasing SL, or invisible building Forgers? Answer is you wouldn't you can only wait for those inevitable extreme matches and stomp the **** out of the newbies because otherwise you tank is as good a scrap. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4281	Posted - 2013.11.25 03:59:00 - [16] - Quote ACE OF JOKERS wrote: True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: yea, we only have STD, combined with EVERYONE has pro AV, you need to balance around pro AV Yes, instead of adding ADV and PRO tanks we need to simply need to balance PRO gear around STD gear. While were at it, why not solve our "protostomping" issue by balancing PRO weapons around the [Starter] Medic fit. Nope I want my tanks balanced around your proto level swarms. A tank with full modules can take 6+ Proto swarms, id say they can hold their ground pretty well. Dude you want to test that on my tank this evening? I doubt it can take six swarms..... if it can I will not bother QQing again. But I know your fits couple 3x Damage mods as well. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4288	Posted - 2013.11.25 07:02:00 - [17] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: You see you miss the point, that because I don't except the same idea as you I want tanks to be easily stomped. Actually read what I write, I have no problem mwith tanks being powerful, what I have a problem with is when you want Anti-Vehicle weaponry to be useless against them. I don't have a problem with a tank taking down a squad if he networks with his own squad to bring them down. But tanks are niche weapons, just like the dropships, just like the Mass driver, just like the laser rifle. It shouldn't be the answer to every situation. Being the only side to field one shouldn't guarantee victory, being the side to field the most shouldn't either. Instead there should be points where tanks are the best solution to certain problems, not all of them! And if you read what I write you will know that is not what I want. I want balance. You don't get balance when enemies can be doing more damage than large rail guns with more splash, all the while being invisible, same with swarms. That is not balance, The size of the armament we carry we should easily have the same range as you if not more, with better in built visual targeting equipment. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4291	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:17:00 - [18] - Quote Atiim wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: [quote=Atiim] Actually, Rails are not the best counter to Blasters. It depends on a lot of factors, it's like saying a Sniper Rifle is good against a shotgun, Sure, at range, but a Blaster fitted to a speed tank is better at dealing with a Rail, Also depends on the type of tank, a missile tank might be better than a rail for example. But I don't care much for it, the reason I'm replying is to ask a question, should AV be stronger than the turrets? Such as a Forge being stronger than a rail (don't give me BUT FORGES HAVE AMMO, because rails will too) just a question. Also, should AV be so cheap in comparison? I don't disagree that a solo tanker should die to a solo AVer (as a solo AVer can die to a solo tanker) but the cost comparison is ridiculous. If I sit on a hill in the redline, there is no way your blaster is getting there in time without being at full health. I believe that HAVs need a price reduction. Does that answer your question? I believe you should not be able to fire outside of CONCORDs established battlefields. This way you get not redline rails, and we get no redline AV. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4291	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:43:00 - [19] - Quote Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: [quote=Atiim] Actually, Rails are not the best counter to Blasters. It depends on a lot of factors, it's like saying a Sniper Rifle is good against a shotgun, Sure, at range, but a Blaster fitted to a speed tank is better at dealing with a Rail, Also depends on the type of tank, a missile tank might be better than a rail for example. But I don't care much for it, the reason I'm replying is to ask a question, should AV be stronger than the turrets? Such as a Forge being stronger than a rail (don't give me BUT FORGES HAVE AMMO, because rails will too) just a question. Also, should AV be so cheap in comparison? I don't disagree that a solo tanker should die to a solo AVer (as a solo AVer can die to a solo tanker) but the cost comparison is ridiculous. If I sit on a hill in the redline, there is no way your blaster is getting there in time without being at full health. I believe that HAVs need a price reduction. Does that answer your question? I believe you should not be able to fire outside of CONCORDs established battlefields. This way you get not redline rails, and we get no redline AV. Not completely. What if the team gets redlined? You don't deserve to be able to fire with impunity if your team is that bad. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"