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Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
191
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Posted - 2013.11.21 07:29:00 -
[121] - Quote
its just too bad none of these people realise that CCP diddnt actually sell you anything...
its sony that sells AUR
that would be like sueing walmart for something you bought at zellers.... |
Silas Swakhammer
GamersForChrist
Orion Empire
262
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Posted - 2013.11.21 07:35:00 -
[122] - Quote
lol
Pineapples on pizza.
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Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
737
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Posted - 2013.11.21 07:37:00 -
[123] - Quote
I'd love to sue the pants off CCP for a lot of things. However, EULA aside, this is what you get if you buy virtual, digital based content. I'm just waiting for Apple to take back my movies I bought off of Apple TV or the shows I bought from Sony. They cover their asses on their digital content.
Remember, we are buying the right to use stuff, not buying the stuff. We paid to rent it.
If the pen is mightier than the sword, in a duel I'll let you have the pen!
-Steven Wright
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Chibi Andy
Forsaken Immortals
Top Men.
658
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Posted - 2013.11.21 08:15:00 -
[124] - Quote
so the British Government will be spending tax payers money YOUR money to help you win back 5 dollars?
and how much in taxes will be spent on that now? lol
YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED!!!
sç+a¦át¢èa¦á)sç+
(pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
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Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
Top Men.
306
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Posted - 2013.11.21 08:16:00 -
[125] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:I'd love to sue the pants off CCP for a lot of things. However, EULA aside, this is what you get if you buy virtual, digital based content. I'm just waiting for Apple to take back my movies I bought off of Apple TV or the shows I bought from Sony. They cover their asses on their digital content.
Remember, we are buying the right to use stuff, not buying the stuff. We paid to rent it.
This guy is right. With any digital content the company retains ownership (in the EULA) and we the consumer are just GÇ£leasing" it. No matter the length of the "lease" at any time they can remove the item. They don't even have to refund you as the consumer because you merely paid to "rent."
Be happy they are refunding anything because legally don't have to.
Call it underhanded, shady, whatever but it's still legal. Companies rarely act harshly and refuse reimbursement because of how that affects PR, not because of some legal obligation.
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Brokerib
Sebiestor Field Sappers
Minmatar Republic
34
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Posted - 2013.11.21 09:39:00 -
[126] - Quote
Galvan Nized wrote:
This guy is right. With any digital content the company retains ownership (in the EULA) and we the consumer are just GÇ£leasing" it. No matter the length of the "lease" at any time they can remove the item. They don't even have to refund you as the consumer because you merely paid to "rent."
Be happy they are refunding anything because legally don't have to.
Call it underhanded, shady, whatever but it's still legal. Companies rarely act harshly and refuse reimbursement because of how that affects PR, not because of some legal obligation.
I wouldn't be too sure about that. Legally, ownership rights of digital content is very much a grey area, and I doubt that either Sony or CCP are interested in the possibility of setting a precedent that could apply across the EU for the sake of a couple of dollars.
And just on a side note, the EULA doesn't trump local law or consumer rights, regardless of what they put in it. Portions of EULA that seek to remove or limit consumer rights have been struck out before, when tested in court.
Not saying that it's necessarily going to be the case here, but for those who are claiming 'you signed the EULA and that's it' are straight up wrong.
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steadyhand amarr
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1947
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Posted - 2013.11.21 10:02:00 -
[127] - Quote
I would like to remind people that an agreement or contract. Does NOT override the law in the UK. This is to prevent companies tricking people though wall of txts and why most student landlords back down pdq when u get lawyers involved.
Ccp could be in real trouble of false advertising of which they have clearly broken on which I will be discussing with Sony
"my faith is my shield, the empress's light my guide and my fury my sword"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
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Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
1807
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Posted - 2013.11.21 10:12:00 -
[128] - Quote
Well, this apparently one ups the guy who's mommy was a lawyer... what a maroon. |
Protected Void
Endless Hatred
183
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Posted - 2013.11.21 10:14:00 -
[129] - Quote
Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:EternalRMG wrote:Marston VC wrote:Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:I've sent a complaint to the Office of Fair Trading (UK equivalent of America's national consumer rights government body) regarding the removal of in-game content (vehicle BPO) that I have purchased from Sony, which is now being removed by a third party who was not party to the purchase agreement, and who is infringing on my consumer rights. I have made a complaint under the following circumstances, failure to comply with Sales of Goods Act 1979, as well as a complaint regarding underhand business tactics and poor customer service.
I would also like you all to note a little extract taken from moneysavingexpert.com
Understanding the law
If you've got a dispute going on, it's important not just to know your rights, but to understand how and why they work.
Every time you buy something, be it a mobile phone from a mate or a week in Cuba from a travel agent, you make a contract with the seller.
What does this contract really mean?
Both you and the other party agree to terms and conditions. The seller has agreed to provide your 'statutory rights'.
*Note the phrase the seller has agreed to provide your statutory rights, not a third party developer, producer, manufacturer, burger van owner or car salesman.
I encourage everyone to exercise their consumer rights and seek legal advice against CCP, and do not be afraid to take action If you get the go-ahead From your legal advisor or consumer rights group, as I certainly will be. Part of the agreement you make when purchasing stuff from CCP says that CCP has rights to change and reimburse you, the consumer, with any item(s) of (what they deem as) equivalent value. Your getting reimbursed anyway, so I don't see the problem here...... Let it he a stupie guy who wants to sue a big company who has way better lawyer that he could ever think of getting only cause he hasnt got a bpo that is getting refunded anyways and wasnt part of any promotion I don't need to pay for an expensive lawyer, as I'm a UK and EU citizen. You see thacts the great tthing about not being an American, it's that my government actually protects my rights and the Office of Fair Trading can fight my claim for me for free, because after all, the British Government works for the people.
Yes...and the resources that the Office of Fair Trading spends on handling your petty squabble are of course magically created out of thin air. It's not like it's coming out of the government's tax income or anything. Taxes that you and all other citizens pay. /sarcasm
You're abusing an excellent system for consumer protection and wasting resources that could be better spent on...well, anything, really. |
David Spd
Caldari State
94
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Posted - 2013.11.21 10:19:00 -
[130] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:ACE OF JOKERS wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:ACE OF JOKERS wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Don't you have to sue Sony first?
Since its 'their money' you spent? Just give me a SP Respec and you can take back your Smelly BPOs... XD Different topic in discussion with CCP now over that one at the moment and even as an Anti-respec person myself I am willing to conceded based on the measures taken to prevent abuses but still be appealing to players to use. On that if we have respecs I am totally against SP penalties now. Well i dont consider it a DIFFERENT topic. Im just thinking:
WHAT else might i consider buying with my Money? now converted into AUR?
And thats pretty much the only thing CCP can offer me that make me stay playing this game.The equation is easy: costumers + satisfied = Constant playerbaseCostumers + unsatisfied = Tranquility server with 100 Dust players Well... there is a new thing you can buy with aurum coming up but blog isn't out yet.
Unless it's a permanent cosmetic I don't think anybody will care, but since you're obviously stepping on the NDA line I imagine you find it to be a big deal.
Now whether or not the community will give two ***** about it... different story entirely.
--> I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often <--
"Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake
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Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
1807
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Posted - 2013.11.21 10:24:00 -
[131] - Quote
One thing that strikes me is that CCP is building out the game, adding new things, working towards something better that will draw more people and perhaps keep it alive in the long term.
So, instead of allowing any progress, we'd rather attempt to discourage CCP from making changes.
Fine, I guess instead they could launch Dust 2 and have people optionally choose to migrate over. Then, you can stay behind with your precious gear in a game nobody plays anymore -- but at least upholding regulations to your own interpretations and preferences.
Don't get me wrong... I'd be pissed to be losing BPOs myself, but this is dumb. |
Hin Raven
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.11.21 10:35:00 -
[132] - Quote
Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:Jakar Umbra wrote:Rowdy Railgunner wrote:Disturbingly Bored wrote:
... except the BPOs in question were not, and never have been, part of a promotional offer. All BPOs that were part of a promotional offer are still in the game.
So what leg are you standing on?
This post here where CCP is telling you to "HURRY UP AND BUY" https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1420895#post1420895The fact that they made a dev post encouraging you to buy items that not a couple of months later they were going to remove. It is misleading to the customer and basically a swindle perpetrated by CCP to create a massive influx of money that had people known then that this would happen would probably not have made a purchase of AUR to buy said items. BAD BUSINESS CCP! I hope his suit has a leg and actually goes somewhere. Would you buy a new fridge simply because you saw a Whirlpool ad, even though it would add absolutely nothing to your life? Probably not. It was your decision to buy, not CCP's. That's like saying it's the stove's fault you stuck your hand in the fire. Being a victim of false advertisement doesn't make you an idiot, it just makes the corporation and idiot for trying to pull the wool over your eyes, fleece you for your money and exploit you as a consumer and expect to get away with it without facing any repercussions.
**** off you **** your not a ******* victim. If you want to know about real atrocities do some research and see what your precious ******* government is doing to children and other innocents in the middle east. To recap you are not a victim you are just a ******* sad pathethic entitled ****. **** OFF!!!!!!!!!! |
Hecarim Van Hohen
Knights of Eternal Darkness
253
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Posted - 2013.11.21 10:39:00 -
[133] - Quote
Well this was amusing to read so thanks are in order.
-Never forget 2013.11.21 02:46-
D-í¦¦¦¦i-󦦦+¦¿¦ºv-ë-£i-ë¦ó¦¦d¦ò-Ǧíe¦¦-ë-í¦ò-ó ¦ò¦+-üw¦¿¦¦e-ü -ë¦òs¦¢¦+t-Ŧ+-£a¦¢-án-¥¦¢-ƒ¦¢d-ü-í-ó¦ó-ó ¦¦u-ÿ-󦦦+n-ÿ-í¦¦-ü-ëi¦ó-ó-Pt-Å-Åe¦º-Å-Çd-Å-ó -ü-ÿ-ü-íw¦¿-¥-£¦í-ëe¦¦-ÿ-ü -í-ü¦óf-ía¦¢¦+-P¦í-ól-ƒ¦ó
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Tech De Ra
Electronic Sports League
179
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Posted - 2013.11.21 11:38:00 -
[134] - Quote
"plz sue these people for refunding something in full, how dare they do that"
Tech De Ra // Electronic Sports League Games Co-ordinator
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TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines
Kleenex Inc.
1465
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 11:45:00 -
[135] - Quote
Your getting a refund in aurum for the vehicle mods being taken out the games.
Level 1 forum warrior.
Minmatar and Gallente fw.
Fix PC lag please CCP.
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
847
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Posted - 2013.11.21 11:53:00 -
[136] - Quote
Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:I've sent a complaint to the Office of Fair Trading (UK equivalent of America's national consumer rights government body) regarding the removal of in-game content (vehicle BPO) that I have purchased from Sony, which is now being removed by a third party who was not party to the purchase agreement, and who is infringing on my consumer rights. I have made a complaint under the following circumstances, failure to comply with Sales of Goods Act 1979, as well as a complaint regarding underhand business tactics and poor customer service.
I would also like you all to note a little extract taken from moneysavingexpert.com
Understanding the law
If you've got a dispute going on, it's important not just to know your rights, but to understand how and why they work.
Every time you buy something, be it a mobile phone from a mate or a week in Cuba from a travel agent, you make a contract with the seller.
What does this contract really mean?
Both you and the other party agree to terms and conditions. The seller has agreed to provide your 'statutory rights'.
*Note the phrase the seller has agreed to provide your statutory rights, not a third party developer, producer, manufacturer, burger van owner or car salesman.
I encourage everyone to exercise their consumer rights and seek legal advice against CCP, and do not be afraid to take action If you get the go-ahead From your legal advisor or consumer rights group, as I certainly will be.
You know all those BPOs you bought? You didn't buy them, you rented them. CCP has DRM on all items in the game, and owns all of your BPOs. That's the magic of DRM.
[+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]
Burner of faces.
The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
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CommanderBolt
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
Renegade Alliance
417
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Posted - 2013.11.21 11:57:00 -
[137] - Quote
Haha! Good luck. [S]-[H]-[I]-[T] - 514. Seriously this game is dead, move along. CCP devs go and make something nice for Eve. |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
1790
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Posted - 2013.11.21 12:31:00 -
[138] - Quote
Smots Ju-Kyu wrote:OP you are an idiot. Go back to this Thread and read very carefully. They list all the modules/turrets/vehicles and nowhere on that list are LAV BPO's that you are crying about. Whoever gets your complaint is gonna **** their pants laughing at you.
No this is the problem with having your legal aid done by someone that you aren't personally paying. They will probably put in a dozen or so hours billable to your taxpayers to find out that this lawsuit can't possible go anywhere, then it would be YOU who has irresponsibly cost your country money. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe PC
RISE of LEGION
1970
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Posted - 2013.11.21 12:44:00 -
[139] - Quote
Jakar Umbra wrote:I love how people are complaining about the removal of four militia vehicle module blueprints. I'm beginning to think that some of the people on these forums don't know how to read without being blinded by some strange all consuming rage at nothing. By the way, for these particular items you bought the Aurum from Sony and then used the Aurum as credits for these items so... good luck 
If the dude really took the time to file a complaint with his government about 4 crappy BPOs then he's certifiable
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
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Sleepy Shadow
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
82
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Posted - 2013.11.21 12:48:00 -
[140] - Quote
OKGǪ CCP created revenue by advertising permanent in game items (note that it doesnGÇÖt matter when you purchased these items, they were always advertised as permanent), they confirmed that our BPOGÇÖs will remain with our characters and even urged us to buy them before they are no longer available. By removing these items they have breached the contract and are liable to compensate.
Now, a seller can cancel the contract (purchase) but both the seller and buyer must agree on the terms. The seller cannot mandate what compensation suits the buyer. They can offer store credit (AUR in this case) but if the buyer does not accept the terms, they must refund cash or offer a similar product. Seeing as similar product is not available, then cash it is.
EULA will never surpass this and to be honest, this is not about the EULA anyway. A product was advertised, confirmed to be permanent and then removed. If 3000 people purchased $5 worth of BPOGÇÖs, CCP made $15,000.00. AUR is not a fair trade, as players are out of money and it is replaced by in game currency that is not valid currency outside the game. Giving AUR costs CCP nothing.
IGÇÖm upset that they are removing the 4 BPOGÇÖs, not because IGÇÖm financially ruined or because the items were brilliant but because it goes against what they said to us. They said they will not be removing BPOGÇÖs but what do you call this then? I can let this slide but if CCP starts eyeballing any other BPOGÇÖs I have, they will have to refund me PSN credit. I have too much AUR already, thereGÇÖs nothing on the market that I want to spend it on. Sure, I can get some boosters but I have over 23 mil SP on my character so it seems a little pointless plus I still have, I think, 2 passive boosters and 1 active waiting to be used.
.ߦóߦî+ÿ+ÿߦÿߦŠߦó+ê+æߦåߦÅߦë - -Æߦ£ß¦îߦîß+¦ Qߦ+ߦÇߦîߦë-ô-ù-+ߦå ߦáߦÉߦÜ+½ß¦â.
...
-¦ ߦíߦÇ-ò -òߦäߦÇ+¦+¦ß¦çߦà ߦÅ+¦ß¦äߦç... -òߦ¢-¦-ƒ-ƒ -ôߦçߦç-ƒ ß¦Ç -ƒ-¦ß¦¢ß¦¢-ƒß¦ç ߦá-¦ß¦Å-ƒß¦Çߦ¢ß¦çߦà
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Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
3845
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Posted - 2013.11.21 12:49:00 -
[141] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:MERC PACK REFUND DEBATE ROUND TWO!
IT JUST WON'T ******* END.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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4447
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
829
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Posted - 2013.11.21 12:50:00 -
[142] - Quote
Chibi Andy wrote:so the British Government will be spending tax payers money YOUR money to help you win back 5 dollars?
and how much in taxes will be spent on that now? lol
It would be small claims court , if he wins they should give comp.
Creep, Radiohead.
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
Renegade Alliance
3837
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Posted - 2013.11.21 13:03:00 -
[143] - Quote
Almost all User Agreements/Terms of Service/EULA have an article which addresses the developers right to modify and/or remove game content at any time.
You did, by the way, agree to all of these just by playing the game.
CCP is not entitled or required to do anything.
ANON Diplomat -//- I Support SP Rollover ^_^
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Justicar Karnellia
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement
Caldari State
137
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Posted - 2013.11.21 13:15:00 -
[144] - Quote
I think this thread has become a bit toxic, but regardless of people's opinions on this, remember an EULA does not supersede statutory rights. How these relate to digital content in the UK is another matter. Keep in mind cases like this are not new, and just show the difficulty of the digital economy.
The UK advertising standards Agency received complaints regarding the ending of Mass Effect 3 and investigated it to it's conclusion (it was not upheld, meaning EA were in the clear)
What is going to happen:
1) Will the complainant win or lose? Impossible to say
2) Will the complaint be taken seriously? Of course. They will investigate until they have reached an appropriate conclusion, whatever that may be.
I do feel this doesn't need to be on the forums though, and could've been done by petition.
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Vin Mora
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
254
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Posted - 2013.11.21 13:20:00 -
[145] - Quote
@OP: It sounds like CCP could not win in this situation. For balance purposes they completely removed those BPOs and related STD/ADV/PRO modules, and they are nice enough to refund the AUR from those modules.
So instead of removing the module BPOs from your inventory (because they will be completely unusable) you sound like you'd be happy if they left them in, but made them unusable. But wait you wouldn't be happy with that, and try to 'sue' them over that as well.
Look, game balance dictates that these items have to go, be happy that they are refunding your AUR.
However, I agree (a little bit) that the removal of BPOs from other packs (that don't have a current known AUR value) would anger me.
Sanguis Defense Syndicate: Recruitment now open for players of all skill levels
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Dust Junky 4Life
Shitstorm Inc
166
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Posted - 2013.11.21 13:24:00 -
[146] - Quote
You people are ignorant. I put in over 100 bucks for bpo's. I have 30mill sp. I have NO USE for aur.
A Shitstorm is coming...........
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R F Gyro
Clones 4u
654
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Posted - 2013.11.21 13:46:00 -
[147] - Quote
It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
If I had to guess I'd say that the view would be that Aurum should be treated like a gift voucher.
If you buy something in a shop with the voucher, then there is a problem with what you buy, the shop can refund you with vouchers. I don't think it matters whether you bought the vouchers with the specific intent to get the product with it or not, they won't be obligated to refund in cash.
Having said that, I wonder if it matters if the shop only sells the product for vouchers, not cash. In that case you would have been forced to spend cash to buy the vouchers to buy the product, and that might have an impact.
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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Sgt Buttscratch
R 0 N 1 N
1008
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Posted - 2013.11.21 13:48:00 -
[148] - Quote
Dey tuk ur juuuurbs
I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas
Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
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Vin Mora
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
255
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Posted - 2013.11.21 13:55:00 -
[149] - Quote
Dust Junky 4Life wrote:You people are ignorant. I put in over 100 bucks for bpo's. I have 30mill sp. I have NO USE for aur.
So you have every skill in the game to 5?
If not, then you have a use for boosters.
Sanguis Defense Syndicate: Recruitment now open for players of all skill levels
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe PC
RISE of LEGION
979
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Posted - 2013.11.21 13:56:00 -
[150] - Quote
Dust Junky 4Life wrote:You people are ignorant. I put in over 100 bucks for bpo's. I have 30mill sp. I have NO USE for aur.
Only an ignorant player would say that.
1) If you have 30 mil sp then you have no need of running BPO fits. You can easily make money with paid fits every match. I do this with about a third of your SP.
2) Using the AUR for boosters will mean that you get access to the full skill tree faster which will increase your versitility on the playfield thus making it easier for you to make isk/be succsssful in any given situation.
Stop your bitching, take your AUR, and enjoy the game. 
Fun > Realism
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