The problem with active scanners is that they allow their user to scan too frequently. When both teams have a constant feed of each others locations (because the best counter to the active scanner is... the active scanner), tactics goes out the window. Anything other than a full frontal assault becomes doomed for failure because as soon as you try another tactic, the enemy will know what you are doing and be able to handily counter it

Saying people need to use dampeners to counter the spam is ridiculous. Stealth is a specialization. It should not be a requirement for using tactics.

The problem isn't that dampeners are too weak, that people aren't using dampeners, or that we lack active dampeners, its that the scanner allows people to scan far too often.

You can gain the benefits of signature tanking + moderate brick tanking or you can purely brick tank.

Its that people aren't willing to signature tank at all, which is more the fault of the medium frames not wanting to give up anything, it takes two low costing modules to beat all but one active scanner, and for the suits with the most slots in the game to complain of using a module or two is amusing.

The cost to beat an active scanner is fine. The scanner still should not provide a constant feed of enemy locations though. It should give a limited snapshot of their locations so you can discover their numbers, relative distribution, and see any weaknesses in their formation.

Think of any other multiplayer FPS. Has any of them ever allowed you to constantly know the location of your enemies? I haven't seen any at least. There is a reason for this. Because it kills tactical gameplay.

Which is why I've been saying the active scanner first and foremost needs a sizeable nerf to its cooldown. That way you can scan before you breach an area or search for ambushes.

They are so wise spread now that there might as well be a UAV overhead at all times. Once again CCP has added something to the game without adding a proper countermeasure to it (short of changing your entire play-style to compensate for filling your low slots with dampeners). Not saying they should be removed, but something should be adjusted with them (probably cutting down the scan angles and ranges, especially for the proto variants) to compensate until a countermeasure is added.

Definitely this. Also get rid of scanner twirl, that is so dumb that you can spin and see everything with no loss in fidelity.

Buff Passive scanning to be 360-¦ and then it can actually compete as a good alternative albeit with much more limited range.

If we get rid of the spinning mechanic and make it more directional, maybe even reduce the angel even more, this would severely limit the active scanner's utility, I have a feeling that we are just going to compile a huge list of debuffs for the scanner and apply them all at once when only a couple were needed.

Active cloaks are not active dampeners, scanning in all forms will counter cloaks, cloaks make you physically invisible, it has nothing to due with detection outside of physically seeing someone.

Active scanners could use ADSing while scanning to give a point for having certain scanning angles and they will be fine for the most part, perhaps increase fitting costs

I'm starting to see people claim the Active scanners are OP or that they need some type of nerf. I just want to point out that its not the scanners that need a nerf. Its the fact that Active dampeners aren't in the game right now. How can someone expect to counter active scanners without some sort of active dampening device??? (stealth module). Frankly its amazing that its possible to counter active scanners with passive scanners at all! So really im just saying...... give it time people. Many of us are quick to scream "OP" but the real problem here is that not everything has an effective answer/counter to it yet. So give it time, and eventually, at least in this specific case, I think scanners will get balanced out.

As long as the nerfs were just

* Remove or decrease effectiveness of spinning/sweeping
* Increase cooldown time
* Remove margin of error messages

the scanner shouldn't become UP. You couldn't use it as often, but you could hang back from the battle a bit (if the two teams are that close) and still get nearly a full view of enemy locations.

If necessary, the range could be increased to compensate.

I didn't say active cloaks...... I said active dampeners......

I'm then going to have to asked why use scouts if you can literally replicate every positive scout trait with a fraction of the sp investment with a piece of equipment. If you want dampening give us a slot or two, which literally nullifies all but one active scanner

Ehhhh CCP has said many many times that people can make any suit into anything the user wants it to be within limitations. You people get FARRRRRRRR to hung up on the names of these damn things. "OMG its a scout suit so it should be the only suit that can fulfill this this and this role/trait"........ NO. This isn't BF3 dude...... I want a stealthy assault suit, I should be allowed to have it. And with the proper SP investment, I CAN. If I want a speed heavy suit I should be allowed to have it. And with the proper SP investment I CAN. If you want a super ninja suit, then just run Active scanner ontop of your scouts passive dampening ability. You'll literally never be spotted again.

This game is a sandbox man, and the whole fitting system encourages people to do whatever they want to whatever they want. Stop getting hung up on the fact that your suit is called a "scout suit" and actually think about what you can do to make your suit more fun to play with.

But you can make a stealth assault. You just have to give up two lows.

If we get rid of the spinning mechanic and make it more directional, maybe even reduce the angel even more, this would severely limit the active scanner's utility, I have a feeling that we are just going to compile a huge list of debuffs for the scanner and apply them all at once when only a couple were needed.

Alright? So? What does that mean for the assault then? Hes giving up either PG/CPU upgrades, or two armor plates (which is a tremendous amount of HP), or some combination of repper/plate/biotic mod. You have to realize that by taking those two spaces the assault may be impervious to most scanners, but its much more flimsy as a suit in general, and the survivability of that suit is totally dependent on the fact that most people wont see him pop up on radar. But its not like those modules stop him from being seen in person. Which is what im trying to say man. Its simple cause and effect. Sure he might have the stealth of a scout suit, but he trades HP away for it, and isn't nearly as mobile either.

deployable active dampeners would be a solid inclusion to the game

Provide stationary dampening over an area? Yes, it would. Be a great tool for defense. As a setback, the dampener itself should appear on enemy radars though.

But you can make a stealth assault. You just have to give up two lows.

I'm starting to see people claim the Active scanners are OP or that they need some type of nerf. I just want to point out that its not the scanners that need a nerf. Its the fact that Active dampeners aren't in the game right now. How can someone expect to counter active scanners without some sort of active dampening device??? (stealth module). Frankly its amazing that its possible to counter active scanners with passive scanners at all! So really im just saying...... give it time people. Many of us are quick to scream "OP" but the real problem here is that not everything has an effective answer/counter to it yet. So give it time, and eventually, at least in this specific case, I think scanners will get balanced out.

EDIT: Tsk tsk. Some of you guys disappoint me. Its as if a lot of you just want your suits to be undetectable without putting any sort of investment into counter measures. Im telling you people the problem isn't in the scanner, its that there isn't a proper counter measure for it. But a lot of you say "nerf the scanner anyway" well what is that going to solve??? It makes them balanced this month, but then next patch whenever active dampening is added, active Scanners will be UP and have to get buffed again later. Rather then nerfing/buffing things so that it servers the present, why don't we work towards things that build a future for the game huh? Im not even a supporter in active scanning. I only have lvl 1 into the damn thing and it really wouldn't bother me one way or the other if it gets nerfed simply because I would switch it out with proto nanite injectors. But that's my whole point though, it doesn't neeeeeed a nerf. We just need to give It a go for a bit until the proper countermeasures are added.

Having CCP nerf things like this now is basically asking them to backtrack later simply because eventually they'll have to re-buff it due to the addition of future equipment.

Personally I think deployable jammers are a bad idea, and despite all the threads made about them, CCP has never once mentioned them on their weekly feedback/suggestion updates. This leads me to believe they won't go in that direction.

However, in case they do, I'll have around 932k in unallocated rainy day SP saved up, just so I can be the first to spam and abuse the hell out of them.

I decided last night that I wanted to run Shotgun.
I have 2 Enhanced dampeners on my fit. that's 40% reduction, plus proficiency 3 (another 9%). My profile is cut in half and wouldn't you know it... I was picked up by scanners still.

The scanner will ALWAYS be OP, because it gives you location and heading. If the solution lies with sacraficing HP and rep, even for Scouts, then it's not a very balanced weapon.

It's also OP, because it's unearned basically. It's cheap, low SP to use, low CPU/PG, simple to use for what advantage it gives, etc.

Why should someone have to invest more SP and ISK into a counter? How is that balanced? Its no different than a 45,000ISK Swarm can destroy a 500,000ISK HAV...

Right, so if they hadn't scanned you, you would've taken out those three Duvolle users before they even knew what hit them?

Here's a better idea: go to the mountain by C. Drop an uplink. Wait until half of your team spawns there, then push the objective. If you can't hide, use numbers to your advantage. Three Duvolles have a harder time going up against six than one merc, no matter what weapons they have.

If you don't want to use dampeners, don't go off on your own and expect to be Rambo. A lone, scanned enemy is an easy target.

Even with dampeners, stealth flanking is hard to do and isn't for everyone. It requires cunning, which most people who play this game don't have. You need to know when to strike and when to stay hidden, and most importantly, when to GTFO. Three protobears heading your way qualifies as a GTFO situation. A cunning flanker will lay a nanohive and booby-trap it with REs while he retreats, leaving a nasty surprise for overeager protobears.

The bottom line is, if you don't want to change your strategy to fit the conditions of the battle, then you should expect to die quickly and often.

*ahem... 4 low-slots

You completely missed the whole point of what I was saying.

If I hadn't been scanned through a MOUNTAIN no one would have known I was coming yea.

I could have done what I used to do. Go behind C put a Uplink down behind the hill on the redline side.

Then I could have went down and hacked the turret and broke through their frontline defenses and caused a large enough disruption for my team to push the objective from the front while others spawned at my uplink to engage from the other side.

It's called TACTICS.

Instead, I was scanned THROUGH A MOUNTAIN! Then, I was scanned after spawning in the MCC!