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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
674
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Posted - 2013.11.15 00:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
The problem with active scanners is that they allow their user to scan too frequently. When both teams have a constant feed of each others locations (because the best counter to the active scanner is... the active scanner), tactics goes out the window. Anything other than a full frontal assault becomes doomed for failure because as soon as you try another tactic, the enemy will know what you are doing and be able to handily counter it
Saying people need to use dampeners to counter the spam is ridiculous. Stealth is a specialization. It should not be a requirement for using tactics.
The problem isn't that dampeners are too weak, that people aren't using dampeners, or that we lack active dampeners, its that the scanner allows people to scan far too often.
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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
675
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Posted - 2013.11.15 00:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Oswald Rehnquist wrote:You can gain the benefits of signature tanking + moderate brick tanking or you can purely brick tank.
Its that people aren't willing to signature tank at all, which is more the fault of the medium frames not wanting to give up anything, it takes two low costing modules to beat all but one active scanner, and for the suits with the most slots in the game to complain of using a module or two is amusing.
The cost to beat an active scanner is fine. The scanner still should not provide a constant feed of enemy locations though. It should give a limited snapshot of their locations so you can discover their numbers, relative distribution, and see any weaknesses in their formation.
Think of any other multiplayer FPS. Has any of them ever allowed you to constantly know the location of your enemies? I haven't seen any at least. There is a reason for this. Because it kills tactical gameplay.
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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
676
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Posted - 2013.11.15 01:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Oswald Rehnquist wrote:Krom Ganesh wrote:
Which is why I've been saying the active scanner first and foremost needs a sizeable nerf to its cooldown. That way you can scan before you breach an area or search for ambushes.
If we get rid of the spinning mechanic and make it more directional, maybe even reduce the angel even more, this would severely limit the active scanner's utility, I have a feeling that we are just going to compile a huge list of debuffs for the scanner and apply them all at once when only a couple were needed.
As long as the nerfs were just
* Remove or decrease effectiveness of spinning/sweeping * Increase cooldown time * Remove margin of error messages
the scanner shouldn't become UP. You couldn't use it as often, but you could hang back from the battle a bit (if the two teams are that close) and still get nearly a full view of enemy locations.
If necessary, the range/angle could be increased to compensate.
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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
678
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Posted - 2013.11.15 01:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:Ehhhh CCP has said many many times that people can make any suit into anything the user wants it to be within limitations. You people get FARRRRRRRR to hung up on the names of these damn things. "OMG its a scout suit so it should be the only suit that can fulfill this this and this role/trait"........ NO. This isn't BF3 dude...... I want a stealthy assault suit, I should be allowed to have it. And with the proper SP investment, I CAN. If I want a speed heavy suit I should be allowed to have it. And with the proper SP investment I CAN. If you want a super ninja suit, then just run Active scanner ontop of your scouts passive dampening ability. You'll literally never be spotted again.
This game is a sandbox man, and the whole fitting system encourages people to do whatever they want to whatever they want. Stop getting hung up on the fact that your suit is called a "scout suit" and actually think about what you can do to make your suit more fun to play with.
But you can make a stealth assault. You just have to give up two lows.
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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
684
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Posted - 2013.11.15 14:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:Alright? So? What does that mean for the assault then? Hes giving up either PG/CPU upgrades, or two armor plates (which is a tremendous amount of HP), or some combination of repper/plate/biotic mod. You have to realize that by taking those two spaces the assault may be impervious to most scanners, but its much more flimsy as a suit in general, and the survivability of that suit is totally dependent on the fact that most people wont see him pop up on radar. But its not like those modules stop him from being seen in person. Which is what im trying to say man. Its simple cause and effect. Sure he might have the stealth of a scout suit, but he trades HP away for it, and isn't nearly as mobile either.
Interesting. Using the assault suit for stealth isn't as efficient as using the suit built for stealth. Who knew? Maybe it has something to due with those limitations you were talking about. (chances are you still will have more eHP than a scout though)
And what you are asking for is to keep your high HP buffer/high cpu and pg/etc. while getting the stealth equivalent of the low eHP scout. That is outright eliminating any point to the scout. And before you say the scout still has greater speed, a) it isn't much speed and b) the extra speed does little to keep the scout alive.
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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
700
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Posted - 2013.11.15 20:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
calisk galern wrote:deployable active dampeners would be a solid inclusion to the game
Provide stationary dampening over an area? Yes, it would. Be a great tool for defense. As a setback, the dampener itself should appear on enemy radars though.
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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
702
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Posted - 2013.11.15 21:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Personally I think deployable jammers are a bad idea, and despite all the threads made about them, CCP has never once mentioned them on their weekly feedback/suggestion updates. This leads me to believe they won't go in that direction.
However, in case they do, I'll have around 932k in unallocated rainy day SP saved up, just so I can be the first to spam and abuse the hell out of them.
Hopefully, the scanner will be changed so they are less spam-tastic and objectives lose their omnipotence or have it reduced. Then deployable dampeners would just be a means of concealing what is at a defensive point and give incentive for teams to have scouts to scout the area out and remove dampeners (which as I said, should appear on enemy radars).
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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
702
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Posted - 2013.11.15 21:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
8213 wrote:I decided last night that I wanted to run Shotgun. I have 2 Enhanced dampeners on my fit. that's 40% reduction, plus proficiency 3 (another 9%). My profile is cut in half and wouldn't you know it... I was picked up by scanners still.
The scanner will ALWAYS be OP, because it gives you location and heading. If the solution lies with sacraficing HP and rep, even for Scouts, then it's not a very balanced weapon.
It's also OP, because it's unearned basically. It's cheap, low SP to use, low CPU/PG, simple to use for what advantage it gives, etc.
Why should someone have to invest more SP and ISK into a counter? How is that balanced? Its no different than a 45,000ISK Swarm can destroy a 500,000ISK HAV...
FYI, 2x enchanced would give around a 40% reduction.
scanProfile * 0.94 * 0.8 * (1 - 0.2 * 0.86) = scanProfile * 0.622
So a light would have 28.01 and a medium would have 31.13
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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
703
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Posted - 2013.11.15 21:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
8213 wrote:Krom Ganesh wrote:But you can make a stealth assault. You just have to give up two lows. *ahem... 4 low-slots
Then you are referring to the focused scanner which not even gal scouts bother with trying to avoid. No one really uses it and, even if they do, the scanner is terrible aside from its scan precision so it doesn't really matter anyways.
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