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Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
605
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Posted - 2013.11.15 14:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
Make it scout only or make it only show people who were in the scan angle the entire scan time of 2 seconds (so no spinning in a circle and scanning.) |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
388
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Posted - 2013.11.15 19:40:00 -
[32] - Quote
Shield/stealth tanking is plenty viable. Armor/stealth tanking also works so long as you have a logi/repper in squad, or triage hives to drop to heal up your armor.
Maybe you guys should try skilling into dampeners before saying they are useless or too big of a sacrifice for survivability. |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
1289
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Posted - 2013.11.15 20:02:00 -
[33] - Quote
Here's a scenario that exemplifies my problem with them.
Manus Peak.
My team has A
Enemy team has B and C
B is guarded by Tank and Snipers
I think "I'm gonna go sneak around this MOUNTAIN to the back side of C"
YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED
Get to top of Mountain and am met by 3 Duvolles
Spawn in MCC
YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED
The ****?!!
"The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies."
- The Toad Sage
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shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon
947
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Posted - 2013.11.15 20:14:00 -
[34] - Quote
Active scanners are not OP but they need a little rework imo. First of all they should not show target direction but only a random red dot. Second they should not give any message, you should scan and what have to appear appears and what is dampend should not appear.
"Just another piece of duct tape"
Some love for gunners
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
388
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Posted - 2013.11.15 20:23:00 -
[35] - Quote
Right, so if they hadn't scanned you, you would've taken out those three Duvolle users before they even knew what hit them?
Here's a better idea: go to the mountain by C. Drop an uplink. Wait until half of your team spawns there, then push the objective. If you can't hide, use numbers to your advantage. Three Duvolles have a harder time going up against six than one merc, no matter what weapons they have.
If you don't want to use dampeners, don't go off on your own and expect to be Rambo. A lone, scanned enemy is an easy target.
Even with dampeners, stealth flanking is hard to do and isn't for everyone. It requires cunning, which most people who play this game don't have. You need to know when to strike and when to stay hidden, and most importantly, when to GTFO. Three protobears heading your way qualifies as a GTFO situation. A cunning flanker will lay a nanohive and booby-trap it with REs while he retreats, leaving a nasty surprise for overeager protobears.
The bottom line is, if you don't want to change your strategy to fit the conditions of the battle, then you should expect to die quickly and often. |
calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
1224
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Posted - 2013.11.15 20:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
deployable active dampeners would be a solid inclusion to the game |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
700
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Posted - 2013.11.15 20:46:00 -
[37] - Quote
calisk galern wrote:deployable active dampeners would be a solid inclusion to the game
Provide stationary dampening over an area? Yes, it would. Be a great tool for defense. As a setback, the dampener itself should appear on enemy radars though.
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
389
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Posted - 2013.11.15 20:54:00 -
[38] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:calisk galern wrote:deployable active dampeners would be a solid inclusion to the game Provide stationary dampening over an area? Yes, it would. Be a great tool for defense. As a setback, the dampener itself should appear on enemy radars though.
Personally I think deployable jammers are a bad idea, and despite all the threads made about them, CCP has never once mentioned them on their weekly feedback/suggestion updates. This leads me to believe they won't go in that direction.
However, in case they do, I'll have around 932k in unallocated rainy day SP saved up, just so I can be the first to spam and abuse the hell out of them. |
8213
BIG BAD W0LVES
708
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Posted - 2013.11.15 20:56:00 -
[39] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:Marston VC wrote:Ehhhh CCP has said many many times that people can make any suit into anything the user wants it to be within limitations. You people get FARRRRRRRR to hung up on the names of these damn things. "OMG its a scout suit so it should be the only suit that can fulfill this this and this role/trait"........ NO. This isn't BF3 dude...... I want a stealthy assault suit, I should be allowed to have it. And with the proper SP investment, I CAN. If I want a speed heavy suit I should be allowed to have it. And with the proper SP investment I CAN. If you want a super ninja suit, then just run Active scanner ontop of your scouts passive dampening ability. You'll literally never be spotted again.
This game is a sandbox man, and the whole fitting system encourages people to do whatever they want to whatever they want. Stop getting hung up on the fact that your suit is called a "scout suit" and actually think about what you can do to make your suit more fun to play with. But you can make a stealth assault. You just have to give up two lows.
*ahem... 4 low-slots |
XxWarlordxX97
Ancient Exiles.
5508
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Posted - 2013.11.15 20:59:00 -
[40] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:I'm starting to see people claim the Active scanners are OP or that they need some type of nerf. I just want to point out that its not the scanners that need a nerf. Its the fact that Active dampeners aren't in the game right now. How can someone expect to counter active scanners without some sort of active dampening device??? (stealth module). Frankly its amazing that its possible to counter active scanners with passive scanners at all! So really im just saying...... give it time people. Many of us are quick to scream "OP" but the real problem here is that not everything has an effective answer/counter to it yet. So give it time, and eventually, at least in this specific case, I think scanners will get balanced out. EDIT: Tsk tsk. Some of you guys disappoint me. Its as if a lot of you just want your suits to be undetectable without putting any sort of investment into counter measures. Im telling you people the problem isn't in the scanner, its that there isn't a proper counter measure for it. But a lot of you say "nerf the scanner anyway" well what is that going to solve??? It makes them balanced this month, but then next patch whenever active dampening is added, active Scanners will be UP and have to get buffed again later. Rather then nerfing/buffing things so that it servers the present, why don't we work towards things that build a future for the game huh? Im not even a supporter in active scanning. I only have lvl 1 into the damn thing and it really wouldn't bother me one way or the other if it gets nerfed simply because I would switch it out with proto nanite injectors. But that's my whole point though, it doesn't neeeeeed a nerf. We just need to give It a go for a bit until the proper countermeasures are added. Having CCP nerf things like this now is basically asking them to backtrack later simply because eventually they'll have to re-buff it due to the addition of future equipment.
its OP
Level 5 forum warrior
Minmatar rule
My heavy suit is OP
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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
702
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Posted - 2013.11.15 21:01:00 -
[41] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Personally I think deployable jammers are a bad idea, and despite all the threads made about them, CCP has never once mentioned them on their weekly feedback/suggestion updates. This leads me to believe they won't go in that direction.
However, in case they do, I'll have around 932k in unallocated rainy day SP saved up, just so I can be the first to spam and abuse the hell out of them.
Hopefully, the scanner will be changed so they are less spam-tastic and objectives lose their omnipotence or have it reduced. Then deployable dampeners would just be a means of concealing what is at a defensive point and give incentive for teams to have scouts to scout the area out and remove dampeners (which as I said, should appear on enemy radars).
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8213
BIG BAD W0LVES
708
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Posted - 2013.11.15 21:01:00 -
[42] - Quote
I decided last night that I wanted to run Shotgun. I have 2 Enhanced dampeners on my fit. that's 40% reduction, plus proficiency 3 (another 9%). My profile is cut in half and wouldn't you know it... I was picked up by scanners still.
The scanner will ALWAYS be OP, because it gives you location and heading. If the solution lies with sacraficing HP and rep, even for Scouts, then it's not a very balanced weapon.
It's also OP, because it's unearned basically. It's cheap, low SP to use, low CPU/PG, simple to use for what advantage it gives, etc.
Why should someone have to invest more SP and ISK into a counter? How is that balanced? Its no different than a 45,000ISK Swarm can destroy a 500,000ISK HAV... |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
702
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Posted - 2013.11.15 21:09:00 -
[43] - Quote
8213 wrote:I decided last night that I wanted to run Shotgun. I have 2 Enhanced dampeners on my fit. that's 40% reduction, plus proficiency 3 (another 9%). My profile is cut in half and wouldn't you know it... I was picked up by scanners still.
The scanner will ALWAYS be OP, because it gives you location and heading. If the solution lies with sacraficing HP and rep, even for Scouts, then it's not a very balanced weapon.
It's also OP, because it's unearned basically. It's cheap, low SP to use, low CPU/PG, simple to use for what advantage it gives, etc.
Why should someone have to invest more SP and ISK into a counter? How is that balanced? Its no different than a 45,000ISK Swarm can destroy a 500,000ISK HAV...
FYI, 2x enchanced would give around a 40% reduction.
scanProfile * 0.94 * 0.8 * (1 - 0.2 * 0.86) = scanProfile * 0.622
So a light would have 28.01 and a medium would have 31.13
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Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
1291
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Posted - 2013.11.15 21:12:00 -
[44] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Right, so if they hadn't scanned you, you would've taken out those three Duvolle users before they even knew what hit them?
Here's a better idea: go to the mountain by C. Drop an uplink. Wait until half of your team spawns there, then push the objective. If you can't hide, use numbers to your advantage. Three Duvolles have a harder time going up against six than one merc, no matter what weapons they have.
If you don't want to use dampeners, don't go off on your own and expect to be Rambo. A lone, scanned enemy is an easy target.
Even with dampeners, stealth flanking is hard to do and isn't for everyone. It requires cunning, which most people who play this game don't have. You need to know when to strike and when to stay hidden, and most importantly, when to GTFO. Three protobears heading your way qualifies as a GTFO situation. A cunning flanker will lay a nanohive and booby-trap it with REs while he retreats, leaving a nasty surprise for overeager protobears.
The bottom line is, if you don't want to change your strategy to fit the conditions of the battle, then you should expect to die quickly and often. You completely missed the whole point of what I was saying.
If I hadn't been scanned through a MOUNTAIN no one would have known I was coming yea.
I could have done what I used to do. Go behind C put a Uplink down behind the hill on the redline side.
Then I could have went down and hacked the turret and broke through their frontline defenses and caused a large enough disruption for my team to push the objective from the front while others spawned at my uplink to engage from the other side.
It's called TACTICS.
Instead, I was scanned THROUGH A MOUNTAIN! Then, I was scanned after spawning in the MCC!
"The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies."
- The Toad Sage
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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
703
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Posted - 2013.11.15 21:19:00 -
[45] - Quote
8213 wrote:Krom Ganesh wrote:But you can make a stealth assault. You just have to give up two lows. *ahem... 4 low-slots
Then you are referring to the focused scanner which not even gal scouts bother with trying to avoid. No one really uses it and, even if they do, the scanner is terrible aside from its scan precision so it doesn't really matter anyways.
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
389
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Posted - 2013.11.15 21:36:00 -
[46] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote: You completely missed the whole point of what I was saying.
If I hadn't been scanned through a MOUNTAIN no one would have known I was coming yea.
I could have done what I used to do. Go behind C put a Uplink down behind the hill on the redline side.
Then I could have went down and hacked the turret and broke through their frontline defenses and caused a large enough disruption for my team to push the objective from the front while others spawned at my uplink to engage from the other side.
It's called TACTICS.
Instead, I was scanned THROUGH A MOUNTAIN! Then, I was scanned after spawning in the MCC!
Oh, so your gripe about scanners is that they penetrate everything up to their scan range?
Again, try out dampeners. It'll let you do all those things and no one will be the wiser, so long as they don't have line of sight on you.
What people don't seem to realize is that tactics don't go out the window when the enemy knows you're there. The only thing you lose is the element of surprise.
For instance, if you're shooting an enemy who is taking cover behind a container, and half of your squad moves to the side to flank them, then it doesn't matter if your flanking squad get scanned; regardless, the enemy will no longer have cover from the side and will probably die. |
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