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Harpyja
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
667
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Posted - 2013.11.01 04:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
So today, I decided to get to theory-crafting and I made a nice spreadsheet for the Gunnlogi. The modules which I was interested in testing were:
- Complex Heavy Shield Booster (214.5,1048)
- Complex Heavy Shield Extender (198, 587)
- Complex Shield Hardener (209.25, 225)
- Complex Powergrid Upgrade (25, 0)
- Complex Ammo Expansion Unit (0, 0)
- Complex Light Armor Repairer (105, 195)
And for the turrets:
- XT-201 Missile Launcher (196, 837)
- XT-1 Missile Launcher (118, 180)
*(CPU, PG), assuming max skills in relevant skills
The Gunnlogi with the new stats has (845, 2120) and 3H/2L.
However, there is a major problem! With one booster, one hardener, 1 large turret, and 2 small turrets, I am already out of CPU, and I haven't filled out all of my slots yet! I hope these numbers aren't final, because if they are, then we will all be running STD vehicles with STD modules, and waiting for who-knows-when when prototype vehicles are released so we can fit PRO modules and turrets!
I was excited for 1.7, but after working with the numbers, I am very disappointed!
I also did some side calculations, and figured out the TTK for both Madrugars and Gunnlogis, using both missiles and blasters. These are assuming all complex modules and maxed skills.
- Assuming 1 booster and 1 hardener on an unscratched Gunnlogi, it would take a Madrugar with no damage mods and a blaster turret 16 seconds to kill it (more than half a full blaster clip).
- Assuming 1 complex heavy armor rep and 1 complex armor hardener on an unscratched Madrugar, it would take a Gunnlogi with no damage mods and a PRO missile turret 1.8 seconds to kill it (full missile clip). Interestingly enough, it would require one less missile if the Madrugar doesn't have an armor rep. Even if plates are added, it would still take the Madrugar too much time to kill the Gunnlogi, so the Gunnlogi would be able to get two full missile clips in, destroying the Madrugar.
After looking at this, missile Gunnlogis will be the ultimate counter to a Madrugar. However, I'm not sure if we can fit anything close to the 'simple' fits mentioned above as the numbers don't work out.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
The dyst0pian Corporation
78
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Posted - 2013.11.01 05:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:So today, I decided to get to theory-crafting and I made a nice spreadsheet for the Gunnlogi. The modules which I was interested in testing were:
- Complex Heavy Shield Booster (214.5,1048)
- Complex Heavy Shield Extender (198, 587)
- Complex Shield Hardener (209.25, 225)
- Complex Powergrid Upgrade (25, 0)
- Complex Ammo Expansion Unit (0, 0)
- Complex Light Armor Repairer (105, 195)
And for the turrets:
- XT-201 Missile Launcher (196, 837)
- XT-1 Missile Launcher (118, 180)
*(CPU, PG), assuming max skills in relevant skills The Gunnlogi with the new stats has (845, 2120) and 3H/2L. However, there is a major problem! With one booster, one hardener, 1 large turret, and 2 small turrets, I am already out of CPU, and I haven't filled out all of my slots yet! I hope these numbers aren't final, because if they are, then we w
gunlogi gets f*cked again lol, but ammo takes no cpu or pg? |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
1352
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Posted - 2013.11.01 05:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
Damn, seeing that made me sad......
'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
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Foundation Seldon
Gespenster Kompanie
Villore Accords
167
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 05:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
I don't see the problem here necessarily. Yes, you can't proto out your tank and run a combination of everything complex and proto weapons, if you want Complex X and Y then you'll need to make sacrifices with Z. If anything I think it'd be a problem if you could fit your tank with everything listed in this way. |
jerrmy12 kahoalii
The dyst0pian Corporation
78
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Posted - 2013.11.01 06:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
Foundation Seldon wrote:I don't see the problem here necessarily. Yes, you can't proto out your tank and run a combination of everything complex and proto weapons, if you want Complex X and Y then you'll need to make sacrifices with Z. If anything I think it'd be a problem if you could fit your tank with everything listed in this way.
could i fit this?
complex hardener
adv booster or adv hardener complex booster
adv missile turret
pg upgrade
ammo or light armor rep or ammo? |
Xender17
MoIden Heath PoIice Department
EoN.
881
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Posted - 2013.11.01 06:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Foundation Seldon wrote:I don't see the problem here necessarily. Yes, you can't proto out your tank and run a combination of everything complex and proto weapons, if you want Complex X and Y then you'll need to make sacrifices with Z. If anything I think it'd be a problem if you could fit your tank with everything listed in this way.
It's therefore fine because the titles of modules say they are good. (when really it all sucks)
Is what your saying.
What the fox say?
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Kasote Denzara
A Vulture
611
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 06:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Foundation Seldon wrote:I don't see the problem here necessarily. Yes, you can't proto out your tank and run a combination of everything complex and proto weapons, if you want Complex X and Y then you'll need to make sacrifices with Z. If anything I think it'd be a problem if you could fit your tank with everything listed in this way.
And ultimately, this will be the next thing they cry about. Not able to be fully proto. +1 for understanding the true problem of fittings.
Praise the sun!
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Assert Dominance
MoIden Heath PoIice Department
EoN.
417
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Posted - 2013.11.01 06:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tankers mad cuz they cant proto out standard vehicle lololololololol
Edit: protoing standard tanks is likely the reason you dont have proto tanks now......
Put glaze on that bun.
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CharCharOdell
1444
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Posted - 2013.11.01 06:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Well, here is something you should consider:
Vehicles are being redone to match the way dropsuits work.
The Gunlogi is a meta 1 piece of gear.
The modules you are using are complex (meta 5 and up).
This would never work on a dropsuit (stacking complex mods on standard suits), so it shouldn't work on a vehicle, either. in fact, even the caldari logi couldn't fit all complex modules when in 1.0, so don't be surprised by this.
If you swap the complex for enhanced, or even basic, you don't actually give up any tankiness, just the frequency that you can engage the enemy (i do love this feature).
So don't fret. It doesn't mean that you have less EHP! You will probably only get less kills because you have to wait for your modules to recharge longer.
(I did 20 vehicle fittings, gunlogi and maddy, the day the tank stats came out. I am the King of QQ and am every bit as whiny as any tanker ever, and I really like the way vehicles look on paper. If I'm not upset, nobody else should be, either.)
Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ
Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó
Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
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Foundation Seldon
Gespenster Kompanie
Villore Accords
167
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 06:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
Xender17 wrote:Foundation Seldon wrote:I don't see the problem here necessarily. Yes, you can't proto out your tank and run a combination of everything complex and proto weapons, if you want Complex X and Y then you'll need to make sacrifices with Z. If anything I think it'd be a problem if you could fit your tank with everything listed in this way. It's therefore fine because the titles of modules say they are good. (when really it all sucks) Is what your saying.
I don't understand the majority of your post but I'll use this to expand my thoughts on the subject.
He could, for example, easily drop the Booster and Hardener modules to enhanced level without losing anything in terms of its overall effectiveness. These modules all boost / resist by the same level at each tier with the only difference being the duration of cooldown at each tier.
Conversely he could probably quite easily drop the Extender to Enhanced level because the base Regen on all vehicles is much higher in 1.7 (Like 160 for the Shield Tank) than it is now (Like ... 12?). |
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Sylvana Nightwind
ck.0
540
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Posted - 2013.11.01 06:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
How do you know they are not changing overall PG/CPU in the overhaul? |
Foundation Seldon
Gespenster Kompanie
Villore Accords
167
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 06:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sylvana Nightwind wrote:How do you know they are not changing overall PG/CPU in the overhaul?
Because we have the stats?
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=113407&find=unread |
Heinz Doofenshertz
BetaMax.
572
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 06:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
To Sylvana we have the numbers :P
anyway I thought I would throw this here as well since it allows you to test fits, and I recently added the HAV weapons to it but there is a compare tool here: www.dust514stats.com/compare.cfm it is not finished, I'm still coding in all the skills weapons, ect. so yeah. but it will help with your maths, because it makes me sad every time someone posts math that is wrong.
Dust514 Stats, Have you updated today?
I do maths, and sit in a corner.
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Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1197
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Posted - 2013.11.01 07:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Maybe you should try some other fits OP? Stuff like dropping to enhanced for one of your modules, or more than one if you need that.
Can you fit full proto on a standard dropsuit? I didn't think so.
I've made some great Gunnlogi fits with the new numbers, which are almost full proto modules fits. There's no small turrets on them though, but I could easily get that by dropping one or two complex modules to enhanced. No, I'm not giving the fits away, so don't bother asking.
Also, CPU upgrades are high slots, not low slots. |
daishi mk03
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
282
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 07:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
The armor repairer is not as effective on basic level, than it is on complex. |
Lorhak Gannarsein
513
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 08:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
CharCharOdell wrote:Well, here is something you should consider:
Vehicles are being redone to match the way dropsuits work.
The Gunlogi is a meta 1 piece of gear.
The modules you are using are complex (meta 5 and up).
This would never work on a dropsuit (stacking complex mods on standard suits), so it shouldn't work on a vehicle, either. in fact, even the caldari logi couldn't fit all complex modules when in 1.0, so don't be surprised by this.
If you swap the complex for enhanced, or even basic, you don't actually give up any tankiness, just the frequency that you can engage the enemy (i do love this feature).
So don't fret. It doesn't mean that you have less EHP! You will probably only get less kills because you have to wait for your modules to recharge longer.
(I did 20 vehicle fittings, gunlogi and maddy, the day the tank stats came out. I am the King of QQ and am every bit as whiny as any tanker ever, and I really like the way vehicles look on paper. If I'm not upset, nobody else should be, either.)
Yeah, sorry Harpy, I know we've done our fair share of bitching about tanks together, but I have to agree with O'Dell here - it's pretty clear that the tanks are going to be super-dropsuits that can't hack now, rather than mini-spaceships (at least in the way their modules and hulls are designed) - I'm hoping that we don't have to wait too long until we get PRO vehicles (it's finally going to happen! *squee*)
Also, I would like to shank those people that ***** about how tanks are being 'nerfed'.
___
EDIT
daishi mk03 wrote:The armor repairer is not as effective on basic level, than it is on complex.
Great. Make that your proto module, then. And that counts - expect a shanking.
Too busy clicking cookies to play DUST...
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9822
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Posted - 2013.11.01 08:39:00 -
[17] - Quote
Okay let me take a crack at fitting a Gunnlogi.
Blank thoery fit
2120 Grid
845 CPU
3 High
2 Lows
2 Small
1 Large
(min requirement 1 Large)
Lets stick with the railgun since its on the same tier as the gallente blaster and missiles seemed to have traded places.
80GJ Particle Accelerator (ADV) 163 CPU 670 Grid
I hate my nose gunner so only one small gun and since I got long range covered
20JG Neutron Blaster 78 CPU 202 Grid
Turret Fitting Optimization is way out there and its likely I wont have these skills off the bat. So both of them are 0% reduction.
241 CPU consumed 872 Grid consumed
604 CPU left 1278 Grid left
Now I have 3 highs and two lows left to fit
Going to skimp on the booster as I need it more to kick start the shield regen more than the shield gains thus its possible to break with shield. (you only get one pulse the larges only have almost 2x more shield bolstered but both kick start the shield regen)
Enhanced Light Shield Booster 164 CPU 133 Grid
Then to bolster defenses a bit
Enhanced Shield Hardener 238 CPU 158 CPU
Enhanced Shield Extender 218 CPU 419 Grid
Defenses Consumes
620 CPU and 710 Grid
Because Vehicle Shield Fitting Optimization is pretty easy (rank 2 lvl 5) but itself is a lvl 5 its likely going to be lvl 3 for me so
15% reduction in CPU only.
527 CPU and 710 Grid
With Offense added that leaves me with
77 CPU and 577 Grid left
Okay top rack filled now utility rack (lows in Gunnlogi's case)
Basic Light Armor Repairer 62 CPU 169 Grid
Enhanced Railgun Ammo Expansion Unit 0 CPU and 0 Grid
15 CPU and 408 Grid left.
Alternatively if I know I am going to find armor repairs easy on the field I can have both ammo expansion units and throw a second gun in but the nose gun is a basic blaster
If I want an advanced or better Ill need to train more fitting optimization skills.
The skills layout is based on my current expenditure into vehicles atm so if I reinvest the same SP I could potentially put this together.
Overall she'd be a slow shoot and scoot sort of tank I wouldn't toss her into the fire like I do my sica. Probably would be hugging buildings or garages and good kind of hills the defenses will be mostly pre/re-active against swarms and impending threats seen to last long enough to get behind cover and kick start the shields again.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\=Advanced Forge Gun =// Unlocked.
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Foundation Seldon
Gespenster Kompanie
Villore Accords
169
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Posted - 2013.11.01 10:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
And that's what we call breaking the paradigm of current Tank "all heavy modules all the time" fittings.
Some points :
1. Shield Regen is awesome now and Iron Wolf's build puts more emphasis on it with a Shield Booster meant primarily to kickstart regen on top of a smaller, bite size injection of Shields in emergencies
2. He shows that mixing and matching both Light and Heavy modules is probably going to be the best way of getting a balanced fitting, the notion that Light Modules = Dropship / LAV territory only is going to be one that might need some reexamining in 1.7
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daishi mk03
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
283
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 11:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
Foundation Seldon wrote:2. He shows that mixing and matching both Light and Heavy modules is probably going to be the best way of getting a balanced fitting, the notion that Light Modules = Dropship / LAV territory only is going to be one that might need some reexamining in 1.7
lol no, just don't try to go full complex on a STD hull
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pegasis prime
BIG BAD W0LVES
1235
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Posted - 2013.11.01 11:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:Foundation Seldon wrote:2. He shows that mixing and matching both Light and Heavy modules is probably going to be the best way of getting a balanced fitting, the notion that Light Modules = Dropship / LAV territory only is going to be one that might need some reexamining in 1.7 lol no, just don't try to go full complex on a STD hull
yip every one knows you never go the full ret@rd
Its gone from suck .....to blow
level 1 forum warrior
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1169
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Posted - 2013.11.01 11:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:So today, I decided to get to theory-crafting and I made a nice spreadsheet for the Gunnlogi. The modules which I was interested in testing were:
- Complex Heavy Shield Booster (214.5,1048)
- Complex Heavy Shield Extender (198, 587)
- Complex Shield Hardener (209.25, 225)
- Complex Powergrid Upgrade (25, 0)
- Complex Ammo Expansion Unit (0, 0)
- Complex Light Armor Repairer (105, 195)
And for the turrets:
- XT-201 Missile Launcher (196, 837)
- XT-1 Missile Launcher (118, 180)
*(CPU, PG), assuming max skills in relevant skills The Gunnlogi with the new stats has (845, 2120) and 3H/2L. However, there is a major problem! With one booster, one hardener, 1 large turret, and 2 small turrets, I am already out of CPU, and I haven't filled out all of my slots yet! I hope these numbers aren't final, because if they are, then we will all be running STD vehicles with STD modules, and waiting for who-knows-when when prototype vehicles are released so we can fit PRO modules and turrets! Some more numbers:
- CPU remaining with fit mentioned above: -11.4
- PG remaining with fit mentioned above: -350.65
---note: adding one Complex Powergrid Upgrade brings PG up to 73.35, but lowers CPU to -36.4
Removing the small turrets, I am able to fit these modules with the help of a CPgU, but I will be running with 2/3 high slots filled and no gunners (and gunners are important!)I was excited for 1.7, but after working with the numbers, I am very disappointed! I also did some side calculations, and figured out the TTK for both Madrugars and Gunnlogis, using both missiles and blasters. These are assuming all complex modules and maxed skills.
- Assuming 1 booster and 1 hardener on an unscratched Gunnlogi, it would take a Madrugar with no damage mods and a blaster turret 16 seconds to kill it (more than half a full blaster clip).
- Assuming 1 complex heavy armor rep and 1 complex armor hardener on an unscratched Madrugar, it would take a Gunnlogi with no damage mods and a PRO missile turret 1.8 seconds to kill it (full missile clip). Interestingly enough, it would require one less missile if the Madrugar doesn't have an armor rep. Even if plates are added, it would still take the Madrugar too much time to kill the Gunnlogi, so the Gunnlogi would be able to get two full missile clips in, destroying the Madrugar.
After looking at this, missile Gunnlogis will be the ultimate counter to a Madrugar. However, I'm not sure if we can fit anything close to the 'simple' fits mentioned above as the numbers don't work out.\ The 'best' fit I've been able to make has 2 Complex Heavy Shield Extenders, 1 Complex Shield Hardener, 1 CPgU, 1 Complex Ammo Expansion Unit, and a XT-201 Missile Launcher. It relies solely on buffer at 5300 shields and 60% resists. However, I'm still not happy because I won't have any gunners.
When did you think CCP would make it easy for us?
Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1169
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 11:15:00 -
[22] - Quote
Foundation Seldon wrote:I don't see the problem here necessarily. Yes, you can't proto out your tank and run a combination of everything complex and proto weapons, if you want Complex X and Y then you'll need to make sacrifices with Z. If anything I think it'd be a problem if you could fit your tank with everything listed in this way.
But it's fair when infantry can fit complex and PRO everything, right?
Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1169
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 11:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
Foundation Seldon wrote:
Conversely he could probably quite easily drop the Extender to Enhanced level because the base Regen on all vehicles is much higher in 1.7 (Like 160 for the Shield Tank) than it is now (Like ... 12?).
lolwut
Active armor repair modules are being removed.
Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1169
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Posted - 2013.11.01 11:18:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sylvana Nightwind wrote:How do you know they are not changing overall PG/CPU in the overhaul?
Because they nerfed the PG skill, and now they're going to nerf the CPU skill, and I wouldn't be surprised if they nerf the base resource stats on all hulls, either.
Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
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daishi mk03
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
284
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 11:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
1. You are no tanker, wtf are you doing here?
> Active armor repair modules are being removed.
2. This thread is about shield tanks u fk
> But it's fair when infantry can fit complex and PRO everything, right?
3. You can't full proto a STD suit .. so you are no infantry either
WHAT THE **** DO YOU EVEN PLAY? Sit in the tank of your chinese fbuddy and whisper him sweet words into his ear?
Edit: And stop triple and quadruple post everywhere u fk |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1169
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Posted - 2013.11.01 11:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:CharCharOdell wrote:Well, here is something you should consider:
Vehicles are being redone to match the way dropsuits work.
The Gunlogi is a meta 1 piece of gear.
The modules you are using are complex (meta 5 and up).
This would never work on a dropsuit (stacking complex mods on standard suits), so it shouldn't work on a vehicle, either. in fact, even the caldari logi couldn't fit all complex modules when in 1.0, so don't be surprised by this.
If you swap the complex for enhanced, or even basic, you don't actually give up any tankiness, just the frequency that you can engage the enemy (i do love this feature).
So don't fret. It doesn't mean that you have less EHP! You will probably only get less kills because you have to wait for your modules to recharge longer.
(I did 20 vehicle fittings, gunlogi and maddy, the day the tank stats came out. I am the King of QQ and am every bit as whiny as any tanker ever, and I really like the way vehicles look on paper. If I'm not upset, nobody else should be, either.) Yeah, sorry Harpy, I know we've done our fair share of bitching about tanks together, but I have to agree with O'Dell here - it's pretty clear that the tanks are going to be super-dropsuits that can't hack now, rather than mini-spaceships (at least in the way their modules and hulls are designed) - I'm hoping that we don't have to wait too long until we get PRO vehicles (it's finally going to happen! *squee*) Also, I would like to shank those people that ***** about how tanks are being 'nerfed'. ___ EDIT daishi mk03 wrote:The armor repairer is not as effective on basic level, than it is on complex. Great. Make that your proto module, then. And that counts - expect a shanking.
So you don't consider the reduction of modules to be a nerf?
Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
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pegasis prime
BIG BAD W0LVES
1235
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Posted - 2013.11.01 11:24:00 -
[27] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Sylvana Nightwind wrote:How do you know they are not changing overall PG/CPU in the overhaul? Because they nerfed the PG skill, and now they're going to nerf the CPU skill, and I wouldn't be surprised if they nerf the base resource stats on all hulls, either.
if they keep the stats the same as the published versions and all the mod's are kept to the publish stats we will get some interesting and varied fits, yes it appears like a nerf but with the changes coming to av its actually quite a buff in disguise. Av will still be deadly to an ill fitted tank or a tank on cool down which will be about 40% of the tanks time on the battlefield. they also mentioned that this is the first wave of rebalancing and with more mods to be released it can only get better . just my 0.2 isk.
Its gone from suck .....to blow
level 1 forum warrior
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1169
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Posted - 2013.11.01 11:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:1. You are no tanker, wtf are you doing here?
> Active armor repair modules are being removed.
2. This thread is about shield tanks u fk
> But it's fair when infantry can fit complex and PRO everything, right?
3. You can't full proto a STD suit .. so you are no infantry either
WHAT THE **** DO YOU EVEN PLAY? Sit in the tank of your chinese fbuddy and whisper him sweet words into his ear?
Edit: And stop triple and quadruple post everywhere u fk
Do you want me to take a picture of my skill list?
Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
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KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
851
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Posted - 2013.11.01 11:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Okay let me take a crack at fitting a Gunnlogi.
-- snip --
Overall she'd be a slow shoot and scoot sort of tank I wouldn't toss her into the fire like I do my sica. Probably would be hugging buildings or garages and good kind of hills the defenses will be mostly pre/re-active against swarms and impending threats seen to last long enough to get behind cover and kick start the shields again. Thanks for the detail. Very helpful even though I only run Armor. Not enough SP to run both.
But the underlined section is a kick in the gut. There is no reason to run tanks. CCP/Shanghai has decided that the described method it the Only method that a tank will be allowed to run.
Fine, I'll kill tanks instead. Depending on how bad Wang lowers his Nerf Hammer Of Doom on my Forge Guns, that is. 
And it won't matter without my Vehicle/Turret SP refunded and all vehicle* related ISK items repurchased. Without that DUST is just a waste of time. Or if vehicles turn out as bad as you have described ... time to play other games and let the passive SP build up enough to make DUST worth looking at again.
You know, when it runs like Chromosome. 
* yes, even those stupid 25 Prometheus DS. |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1169
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Posted - 2013.11.01 11:33:00 -
[30] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:
Edit: And stop triple and quadruple post everywhere u fk
With a max of 7 quotes, what do you expect me to do?
Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
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daishi mk03
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
284
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Posted - 2013.11.01 11:33:00 -
[31] - Quote
@name
> topic
your answer
@name
> topic
your answer
@name
> topic
your answer |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1169
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Posted - 2013.11.01 11:40:00 -
[32] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:@name
> topic
your answer
@name
> topic
your answer
@name
> topic
your answer
So you want me to use the forums your way, instead of the way I want to?
Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Public Disorder.
184
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Posted - 2013.11.01 11:57:00 -
[33] - Quote
I don't understand something here.
Why give us proto mods?
If all we are going to have is the standard variant of our tanks, then I see no use making proto mods.
And I understand that AV is getting a "nerf", but they will still be running the full proto. While tanks are running the standard.
How does this make sense to everyone???? |
Lorhak Gannarsein
516
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Posted - 2013.11.01 12:26:00 -
[34] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:But it's fair when infantry can fit complex and PRO everything, right?
Please fit a STD dropsuit with fully PRO mods. I'll need pics.
I'll wait.
Spkr4theDead wrote:now they're going to nerf the CPU skill
Gunnlogi now, with max skills = ~430 CPU
Gunnlogi in 1.7 (no skill mods available) = 845 CPU
Please read the coming changes.
Spkr4theDead wrote:So you don't consider the reduction of modules to be a nerf?
No. I don't, contextually. I consider it to be the first step to a full balancing of vehicles. I'd have thought you'd be over the moon, the way you complain about wanting your PRO or Marauder hulls so badly.
We're finally going to get them (well, eventually. There's room for them, now). It seems pretty obvious to me that they're redesigning vehicles to match infantry more closely. Unless you know so very little about infantry that you aren't even aware that their mods are classed in the same way as ours will be?
They're buffing our resistances through the roof. It's not even going to be necessary to fit plates for buffer, thanks to our even more OP hardeners.
EDIT: fixed bad quote
Too busy clicking cookies to play DUST...
|
Lorhak Gannarsein
516
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 12:27:00 -
[35] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:But the underlined section is a kick in the gut. There is no reason to run tanks. CCP/Shanghai has decided that the described method it the Only method that a tank will be allowed to run.
Well, I've fit a Madrugar with all complex mods (admittedly, it'll take something like 14M SP to complete) and it should be a pretty decent brawler. I don't think anyone will have enough SP to run both right now, not really.
Gunnlogi is built for dealing damage - it'll be able to blitz basically anything with a damage-modded railgun, and O'Dell mentioned on another thread that with PRO missiles, it'll be able to hit for something like 6k DPS against Madrugars (not for long, but still). Furthermore, we'll be basically invulnerable while our countermeasures are online - 60% damage resists (for Maddy) is pretty obscene; it's not something I can get right now, in fact. If I run a complex repper with skills maxed, that's 160 HP/s, compared to my 440 now, but the hardener will expand that pretty hugely, and I'd not be surprised if I could get a buddy hand-repping me for the Guardian points.
And don't forget, they're buffing repair tools 
Once you run the numbers, this comes out as a pretty nice buff, especially considering that AV is getting a nerf across the board. I'm pretty excited about the changes.
(sorry about double-post; too many quotes for one  )
EDIT: Fixed another bad quote -.- apparently I need to improve my forum skills.
Too busy clicking cookies to play DUST...
|
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Public Disorder.
184
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 13:10:00 -
[36] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:KalOfTheRathi wrote:But the underlined section is a kick in the gut. There is no reason to run tanks. CCP/Shanghai has decided that the described method it the Only method that a tank will be allowed to run. Well, I've fit a Madrugar with all complex mods (admittedly, it'll take something like 14M SP to complete) and it should be a pretty decent brawler. I don't think anyone will have enough SP to run both right now, not really. Gunnlogi is built for dealing damage - it'll be able to blitz basically anything with a damage-modded railgun, and O'Dell mentioned on another thread that with PRO missiles, it'll be able to hit for something like 6k DPS against Madrugars (not for long, but still). Furthermore, we'll be basically invulnerable while our countermeasures are online - 60% damage resists (for Maddy) is pretty obscene; it's not something I can get right now, in fact. If I run a complex repper with skills maxed, that's 160 HP/s, compared to my 440 now, but the hardener will expand that pretty hugely, and I'd not be surprised if I could get a buddy hand-repping me for the Guardian points. And don't forget, they're buffing repair tools Once you run the numbers, this comes out as a pretty nice buff, especially considering that AV is getting a nerf across the board. I'm pretty excited about the changes. (sorry about double-post; too many quotes for one ) EDIT: Fixed another bad quote -.- apparently I need to improve my forum skills.
Don't maddies now, stacking active hardeners reach a rather high res? Say with 3 hardeners at 25% per and assuming stacking penalties? |
Harpyja
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
669
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 13:21:00 -
[37] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:KalOfTheRathi wrote:But the underlined section is a kick in the gut. There is no reason to run tanks. CCP/Shanghai has decided that the described method it the Only method that a tank will be allowed to run. Well, I've fit a Madrugar with all complex mods (admittedly, it'll take something like 14M SP to complete) and it should be a pretty decent brawler. I don't think anyone will have enough SP to run both right now, not really. Gunnlogi is built for dealing damage - it'll be able to blitz basically anything with a damage-modded railgun, and O'Dell mentioned on another thread that with PRO missiles, it'll be able to hit for something like 6k DPS against Madrugars (not for long, but still). Furthermore, we'll be basically invulnerable while our countermeasures are online - 60% damage resists (for Maddy) is pretty obscene; it's not something I can get right now, in fact. If I run a complex repper with skills maxed, that's 160 HP/s, compared to my 440 now, but the hardener will expand that pretty hugely, and I'd not be surprised if I could get a buddy hand-repping me for the Guardian points. And don't forget, they're buffing repair tools Once you run the numbers, this comes out as a pretty nice buff, especially considering that AV is getting a nerf across the board. I'm pretty excited about the changes. (sorry about double-post; too many quotes for one ) EDIT: Fixed another bad quote -.- apparently I need to improve my forum skills.
I'm very certain the armor hardener is a 40% resistance while the shield hardener is a 60% resistance. The numbers given to us are multipliers, and the only thing they could multiply with .6 and .4, respectively, is incoming damage.
But it looks like though I'll be running all complex mods with no small turrets. I'll just need to be extra careful about sticking with infantry. But my numbers tell me I'll be able to absorb 18 seconds of a blaster Madrugar before blowing up. More than enough time to blow it up and retreat.
Because I'm sure that it will come down to who will be able to come back into action the quickest, and complex mods will do just that.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
|
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
1576
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 13:24:00 -
[38] - Quote
We need proto vehicles
|
Lorhak Gannarsein
516
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 13:25:00 -
[39] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:We need proto vehicles
Looks like we'll be getting them.
Too busy clicking cookies to play DUST...
|
Harpyja
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
669
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 13:26:00 -
[40] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:We need proto vehicles
Looks like we'll be getting them.
Soon(TM)
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
|
|
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Lorhak Gannarsein
517
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 13:32:00 -
[41] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:KalOfTheRathi wrote:But the underlined section is a kick in the gut. There is no reason to run tanks. CCP/Shanghai has decided that the described method it the Only method that a tank will be allowed to run. Well, I've fit a Madrugar with all complex mods (admittedly, it'll take something like 14M SP to complete) and it should be a pretty decent brawler. I don't think anyone will have enough SP to run both right now, not really. Gunnlogi is built for dealing damage - it'll be able to blitz basically anything with a damage-modded railgun, and O'Dell mentioned on another thread that with PRO missiles, it'll be able to hit for something like 6k DPS against Madrugars (not for long, but still). Furthermore, we'll be basically invulnerable while our countermeasures are online - 60% damage resists (for Maddy) is pretty obscene; it's not something I can get right now, in fact. If I run a complex repper with skills maxed, that's 160 HP/s, compared to my 440 now, but the hardener will expand that pretty hugely, and I'd not be surprised if I could get a buddy hand-repping me for the Guardian points. And don't forget, they're buffing repair tools Once you run the numbers, this comes out as a pretty nice buff, especially considering that AV is getting a nerf across the board. I'm pretty excited about the changes. (sorry about double-post; too many quotes for one ) EDIT: Fixed another bad quote -.- apparently I need to improve my forum skills. I'm very certain the armor hardener is a 40% resistance while the shield hardener is a 60% resistance. The numbers given to us are multipliers, and the only thing they could multiply with .6 and .4, respectively, is incoming damage. But it looks like though I'll be running all complex mods with no small turrets. I'll just need to be extra careful about sticking with infantry. But my numbers tell me I'll be able to absorb 18 seconds of a blaster Madrugar before blowing up. More than enough time to blow it up and retreat. Because I'm sure that it will come down to who will be able to come back into action the quickest, and complex mods will do just that.
eh, I dunno. I'm gonna have quite a bit of downtime; gotta do a lot of waiting as it is, can't see that changing. Just had a look at the numbers, though, and you're probably right.
It's not like small turrets are useful anyway; I'll only be fitting one so my helpful rep-buddy can ride with me :)
Too busy clicking cookies to play DUST...
|
Racro 01 Arifistan
501st Knights of Leanbox
61
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 14:07:00 -
[42] - Quote
you have an armour rep on shield tank?
thats why you got no pwr gird. and you dont have to fit the small turrets either.
once a logi loses its shields its basically doomed. |
Harpyja
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
670
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 14:15:00 -
[43] - Quote
Racro 01 Arifistan wrote:you have an armour rep on shield tank?
thats why you got no pwr gird. and you dont have to fit the small turrets either.
once a logi loses its shields its basically doomed.
No, if you read carefully, you'll have seen I went negative before even getting to the armor rep. On paper, having a small armor rep is good if you're going with no extenders but a booster and hardeners, so you can rep back any armor lost from high alpha attacks before the hardener and booster kick in.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
|
daishi mk03
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
285
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 14:53:00 -
[44] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:daishi mk03 wrote:@name
> topic
your answer
@name
> topic
your answer
@name
> topic
your answer So you want me to use the forums your way, instead of the way I want to?
My way and the way of every other person here, except you.
Edit: harpbaby, give a link to spreadsheet pls |
Knight Soiaire
Mercenaries of Sunlight
2924
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 15:04:00 -
[45] - Quote
Caldari Medium Frame C-1 - Grenadier
CPU - 347 / 347
PG - 38 / 39
Highs
Complex Shield Recharger
Complex Shield Extender
Lows
Complex CPU Upgrade x2
Primary
Duvolle Assault Rifle
Sidearm
Core Flaylock Pistol
Grenade
Allotek Flux Grenade
Equipment
Boundless Remote Explosives
*Walks out of thread like a badass*
Raffle draw will be in 2-3 days
CAF Scrub - BHD Scrub - 100% Scrub guaranteed.
(Scrub approved by GJR himself)
|
daishi mk03
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
285
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 15:06:00 -
[46] - Quote
This is no real fit.
You can also fit only complex CPU and complex PG upgrades on your tank + a proto rail and be full proto. GJ troll |
Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1197
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 15:09:00 -
[47] - Quote
Knight Soiaire, as Daishi said, try fitting a real fit. Bad full Proto Gunnlogi fit:
Complex Hardener.
Complex Fuel Injector.
Complex Scanner.
Complex Ammo Unit.
Complex PG Upgrade.
Proto Turrets.
There, a full Proto Gunnlogi fit. |
Knight Soiaire
Mercenaries of Sunlight
2925
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 15:13:00 -
[48] - Quote
What do you mean by real fit?
I assure you, with all Lvl 5s, this fit is a 'real' fit (Whatever that may be)
It was said that you couldn't fit full Proto / Complex on a Standard dropsuit, nobody ever said it had to be good.
Raffle draw will be in 2-3 days
CAF Scrub - BHD Scrub - 100% Scrub guaranteed.
(Scrub approved by GJR himself)
|
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
1576
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 15:15:00 -
[49] - Quote
Someone asked for a full proto fit on a basic suit and you have it, you may not like it but it can be done
As for the vehicle fit it may be needed to be fit like that
Big difference between the dropsuit and vehicle fits are that dropsuits have skills which increase PG/CPU and other stats such as shield and armor, vehicles do not have that anymore and have lost more skills
We need proto tanks just like infantry have proto suits because our main problem is having proto mods and turrets but only having a basic hull to use |
daishi mk03
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
285
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 15:18:00 -
[50] - Quote
Knight Soiaire wrote:What do you mean by real fit? I assure you, with all Lvl 5s, this fit is a 'real' fit (Whatever that may be) It was said that you couldn't fit full Proto / Complex on a Standard dropsuit, nobody ever said it had to be good.
We can also fit full proto on STD tanks, as I said, however, we can not fit something which is useful on a battlefield.
Which is pretty much okay, since we get proto tanks soonTM which can be fully fitted with proto stuff.
@Takahiro Kashuken
go kiss your fbuddy |
|
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
1576
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 15:21:00 -
[51] - Quote
u mad bro? |
daishi mk03
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
285
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 15:24:00 -
[52] - Quote
It was you, ranting for 30 mins because I fked your ****** gunnlogi, not me.
Now stop derailing useful tanker threads and troll somewhere else. |
Knight Soiaire
Mercenaries of Sunlight
2925
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 15:28:00 -
[53] - Quote
Realistically, I should've made a bet before posting those stats up.
Oh well, maybe next time.
The fit is actually pretty decent, heck, I'd use it.
Raffle draw will be in 2-3 days
CAF Scrub - BHD Scrub - 100% Scrub guaranteed.
(Scrub approved by GJR himself)
|
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
1576
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 15:30:00 -
[54] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:It was you, ranting for 30 mins because I fked your ****** gunnlogi, not me.
Now stop derailing useful tanker threads and troll somewhere else.
You mean you got butthurt because you hide in the redline like a ***** and i called you out for it, at least i got to kill you twice anyways
But lets be honest here, you are a non factor anyways and can barely tank at all hence why you hide in the redline all day |
daishi mk03
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
285
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 15:31:00 -
[55] - Quote
Yeah, you can also rail snipe with a tank full of complex PG and CPU upgrade modules
HOWEVER
in which suit do you want to face your opponent, the one posted by you or a state of the art ck0?
@Takahiro Kashuken
I was the one laughing the rest of the evening at you, lol.
Also, remember when you gave me your tank and raged again? It is always you raging and being butthurt, little prince. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
1576
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 15:37:00 -
[56] - Quote
Why would i give you a tank? oh yes just to see how bad you are with it and guess what it got blown up because you are that bad
Frankly why are you in tank threads? |
Knight Soiaire
Mercenaries of Sunlight
2926
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 15:39:00 -
[57] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:Yeah, you can also rail snipe with a tank full of complex PG and CPU upgrade modules HOWEVER in which suit do you want to face your opponent, the one posted by you or a state of the art ck0? @ Takahiro KashukenI was the one laughing the rest of the evening at you, lol. Also, remember when you gave me your tank and raged again? It is always you raging and being butthurt, little prince.
The Ck.0 of course.
But the fit that I posted is decent.
You've got a decent amount of HP, a great Primary, a good Sidearm, a useful Grenade, and REs that can come in handy for Letter defence, or even taking out Proto suits.
All for 99k ISK.
Sure if I had the choice, I'd go with a Ck.0.
Who wouldn't?
Raffle draw will be in 2-3 days
CAF Scrub - BHD Scrub - 100% Scrub guaranteed.
(Scrub approved by GJR himself)
|
daishi mk03
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
287
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 15:42:00 -
[58] - Quote
Knight Soiaire wrote:daishi mk03 wrote:Yeah, you can also rail snipe with a tank full of complex PG and CPU upgrade modules HOWEVER in which suit do you want to face your opponent, the one posted by you or a state of the art ck0? @ Takahiro KashukenI was the one laughing the rest of the evening at you, lol. Also, remember when you gave me your tank and raged again? It is always you raging and being butthurt, little prince. The Ck.0 of course. But the fit that I posted is decent. You've got a decent amount of HP, a great Primary, a good Sidearm, a useful Grenade, and REs that can come in handy for Letter defence, or even taking out Proto suits. All for 99k ISK. Sure if I had the choice, I'd go with a Ck.0. Who wouldn't?
Yeah, see, we have no ck0 right now. :)
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Why would i give you a tank? oh yes just to see how bad you are with it and guess what it got blown up because you are that bad
Frankly why are you in tank threads?
Actually, it was more a taking by me than giving by you. Made me laugh so hard seeing you jump out of that tank and let me drive away.
I love the fact that you come here to protect your little lover from me. You two are one of the reasons I'm here. |
Harpyja
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
671
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 15:42:00 -
[59] - Quote
Knight Soiaire wrote:daishi mk03 wrote:Yeah, you can also rail snipe with a tank full of complex PG and CPU upgrade modules HOWEVER in which suit do you want to face your opponent, the one posted by you or a state of the art ck0? @ Takahiro KashukenI was the one laughing the rest of the evening at you, lol. Also, remember when you gave me your tank and raged again? It is always you raging and being butthurt, little prince. The Ck.0 of course. But the fit that I posted is decent. You've got a decent amount of HP, a great Primary, a good Sidearm, a useful Grenade, and REs that can come in handy for Letter defence, or even taking out Proto suits. All for 99k ISK. Sure if I had the choice, I'd go with a Ck.0. Who wouldn't?
If I had the choice, I'd go with a proto tank. Oh wait.
@daishi and Takahiro: stop arguing, please, you've gone too far off topic
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
|
SiR Merks Mom
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 15:43:00 -
[60] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Damn, seeing that made me sad......
Maybe we wont get to see your 15th post about tank stomping when it turns out it might not dial in right and that being said...It is an imbalance they are trying to fix....and i feel that I run into tanks all day that NEVER get killed...and sometimes i pop the same guy 4 times a match....It sounds like you just want tanks to be OP..not balanced...I can garauntee that they will be balanced one day...If you havnt noticed CCP favours infantry because it holds most of the player base including the new players, and if tanks are stomping them and they quit faster they will nerf it...or just throw aim assist on the Forge Gun.
Loosing a slot is a big hit...for my vehicle...I bet putting 1 hardner/1repper/1 pate will be amost immposible to fit on a maddy..and if you can you will have militia guns on that badboy and no room for any nitro....
long story short your gonna have to be shield/guns/armour but your only gonna get 1 of those wich makes you useless.
I know vehicles are not flowing right right now with the bullshit renering and such but I am simply post ing this so when 1.7 comesout i can link this post to the new posts you make about the crappy vehicles, and say I told you so since your so keen about whats gonna happen in 1.7...
Just sayin...fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me....If you put your points back into the vehicles and they turn out bunk...that will be on you...skill into plasma cannons or something... |
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daishi mk03
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
287
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 15:44:00 -
[61] - Quote
Harpyja, can you link your spreadsheet? |
Harpyja
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
671
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 15:46:00 -
[62] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:Harpyja, can you link your spreadsheet?
I'll try, but it's on excel. Plus I'm going to remake it as mentioned in the OP now.
Edit: I'll see if I can link it this evening, central US time
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
|
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
1576
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 15:47:00 -
[63] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:Knight Soiaire wrote:daishi mk03 wrote:Yeah, you can also rail snipe with a tank full of complex PG and CPU upgrade modules HOWEVER in which suit do you want to face your opponent, the one posted by you or a state of the art ck0? @ Takahiro KashukenI was the one laughing the rest of the evening at you, lol. Also, remember when you gave me your tank and raged again? It is always you raging and being butthurt, little prince. The Ck.0 of course. But the fit that I posted is decent. You've got a decent amount of HP, a great Primary, a good Sidearm, a useful Grenade, and REs that can come in handy for Letter defence, or even taking out Proto suits. All for 99k ISK. Sure if I had the choice, I'd go with a Ck.0. Who wouldn't? Yeah, see, we have no ck0 right now. :) Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Why would i give you a tank? oh yes just to see how bad you are with it and guess what it got blown up because you are that bad
Frankly why are you in tank threads? Actually, it was more a taking by me than giving by you. Made me laugh so hard seeing you jump out of that tank and let me drive away. I love the fact that you come here to protect your little lover from me. You two are one of the reasons I'm here.
So i have a stalker then, if you are going to be a stalker can you actually get good 1st |
daishi mk03
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
289
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 15:49:00 -
[64] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:daishi mk03 wrote:Harpyja, can you link your spreadsheet? I'll try, but it's on excel. Plus I'm going to remake it as mentioned in the OP now. Edit: I'll see if I can link it this evening, central US time
Would be great .. I have one, don't know from whom, but it'S PG and CPU calculation is wrong. That's why I asked.
@Takahiro Kashuken
I don't stalk you, you are just easy lulz every day. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
1576
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 15:55:00 -
[65] - Quote
I dont stalk you she says
I didnt reply to anyone in this thread and automatically you get butthurt by me posting something and start following me
Sure you dont |
daishi mk03
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
289
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 16:08:00 -
[66] - Quote
The majority of your posts in this thread is mainly directed towards me, I just spend two secs at the end of every post to keep you motivated to go on, my little prince. ^.- |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
559
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 16:19:00 -
[67] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:so if I reinvest the same SP
Shouldn't you have said **Spoiler Alert** |
daishi mk03
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
290
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 16:21:00 -
[68] - Quote
Needless Sacermendor wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:so if I reinvest the same SP Shouldn't you have said **Spoiler Alert**
Nice find! :D
IWS talks too much :S |
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Public Disorder.
185
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 16:22:00 -
[69] - Quote
Needless Sacermendor wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:so if I reinvest the same SP Shouldn't you have said **Spoiler Alert**
Would be a bit ridiculous if they didn't refund SP after changing the tree like they have. I think it is a safe bet that you will be getting that SP sunk into vehicles back. |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
560
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 16:28:00 -
[70] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Needless Sacermendor wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:so if I reinvest the same SP Shouldn't you have said **Spoiler Alert** Would be a bit ridiculous if they didn't refund SP after changing the tree like they have. I think it is a safe bet that you will be getting that SP sunk into vehicles back.
They only need to refund skills they are removing. |
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Public Disorder.
185
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 16:32:00 -
[71] - Quote
Needless Sacermendor wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Needless Sacermendor wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:so if I reinvest the same SP Shouldn't you have said **Spoiler Alert** Would be a bit ridiculous if they didn't refund SP after changing the tree like they have. I think it is a safe bet that you will be getting that SP sunk into vehicles back. They only need to refund skills they are removing.
And if you will notice Changes that would be all of them. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
1576
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 16:37:00 -
[72] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Needless Sacermendor wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Needless Sacermendor wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:so if I reinvest the same SP Shouldn't you have said **Spoiler Alert** Would be a bit ridiculous if they didn't refund SP after changing the tree like they have. I think it is a safe bet that you will be getting that SP sunk into vehicles back. They only need to refund skills they are removing. And if you will notice Changes that would be all of them.
Also AV is being changed
If the FG gets changed ppl may want out of the FG and the fatsuit completely because lolHMG isnt good enough, ppl already want out of the SL and its only the 1st nerf is over 6+months
Expect a respec for vehicles at least but it could just be easier to give full respecs as standard until all the racial suits/weapons and vehicles are out |
daishi mk03
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
290
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 16:44:00 -
[73] - Quote
If CCP acts the same as always only skills which are altered / removed / replaced are refunded. (= all vehicle skills)
AV gets nerfed, no skill changes there .. so no refund for them. |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1178
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 17:27:00 -
[74] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:Yeah, you can also rail snipe with a tank full of complex PG and CPU upgrade modules HOWEVER in which suit do you want to face your opponent, the one posted by you or a state of the art ck0? @ Takahiro KashukenI was the one laughing the rest of the evening at you, lol. Also, remember when you gave me your tank and raged again? It is always you raging and being butthurt, little prince.
You mean the one I rammed and blew up with a much lesser tank?
Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1178
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 17:29:00 -
[75] - Quote
SiR Merks Mom wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:Damn, seeing that made me sad...... Maybe we wont get to see your 15th post about tank stomping when it turns out it might not dial in right and that being said...It is an imbalance they are trying to fix....and i feel that I run into tanks all day that NEVER get killed...and sometimes i pop the same guy 4 times a match....It sounds like you just want tanks to be OP..not balanced...I can garauntee that they will be balanced one day...If you havnt noticed CCP favours infantry because it holds most of the player base including the new players, and if tanks are stomping them and they quit faster they will nerf it...or just throw aim assist on the Forge Gun. Loosing a slot is a big hit...for my vehicle...I bet putting 1 hardner/1repper/1 pate will be amost immposible to fit on a maddy..and if you can you will have militia guns on that badboy and no room for any nitro.... long story short your gonna have to be shield/guns/armour but your only gonna get 1 of those wich makes you useless. I know vehicles are not flowing right right now with the bullshit renering and such but I am simply post ing this so when 1.7 comesout i can link this post to the new posts you make about the crappy vehicles, and say I told you so since your so keen about whats gonna happen in 1.7... Just sayin...fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me....If you put your points back into the vehicles and they turn out bunk...that will be on you...skill into plasma cannons or something...
You think tanks are imbalanced only because your AR can't destroy them, and they don't go pop from one volley of ADV swarms.
Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
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daishi mk03
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
290
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 17:42:00 -
[76] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:daishi mk03 wrote:Yeah, you can also rail snipe with a tank full of complex PG and CPU upgrade modules HOWEVER in which suit do you want to face your opponent, the one posted by you or a state of the art ck0? @ Takahiro KashukenI was the one laughing the rest of the evening at you, lol. Also, remember when you gave me your tank and raged again? It is always you raging and being butthurt, little prince. You mean the one I rammed and blew up with a much lesser tank?
Yeah, it was a terrible fit, that's why your Militia Soma was able to kill it.
You little spammy fslave. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
1588
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 17:50:00 -
[77] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:daishi mk03 wrote:Yeah, you can also rail snipe with a tank full of complex PG and CPU upgrade modules HOWEVER in which suit do you want to face your opponent, the one posted by you or a state of the art ck0? @ Takahiro KashukenI was the one laughing the rest of the evening at you, lol. Also, remember when you gave me your tank and raged again? It is always you raging and being butthurt, little prince. You mean the one I rammed and blew up with a much lesser tank? Yeah, it was a terrible fit, that's why your Militia Soma was able to kill it. You little spammy fslave.
The fit is perfect, its used in PC on a regular basis and kills better vehicle pilots than you
The problem is the pilot aka you
Get good scrub |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1178
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 17:59:00 -
[78] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:daishi mk03 wrote:Yeah, you can also rail snipe with a tank full of complex PG and CPU upgrade modules HOWEVER in which suit do you want to face your opponent, the one posted by you or a state of the art ck0? @ Takahiro KashukenI was the one laughing the rest of the evening at you, lol. Also, remember when you gave me your tank and raged again? It is always you raging and being butthurt, little prince. You mean the one I rammed and blew up with a much lesser tank? Yeah, it was a terrible fit, that's why your Militia Soma was able to kill it. You little spammy fslave.
Why do you so firmly believe that I'm not a tanker?
Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
|
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1178
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 18:01:00 -
[79] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:daishi mk03 wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:daishi mk03 wrote:Yeah, you can also rail snipe with a tank full of complex PG and CPU upgrade modules HOWEVER in which suit do you want to face your opponent, the one posted by you or a state of the art ck0? @ Takahiro KashukenI was the one laughing the rest of the evening at you, lol. Also, remember when you gave me your tank and raged again? It is always you raging and being butthurt, little prince. You mean the one I rammed and blew up with a much lesser tank? Yeah, it was a terrible fit, that's why your Militia Soma was able to kill it. You little spammy fslave. The fit is perfect, its used in PC on a regular basis and kills better vehicle pilots than you The problem is the pilot aka you Get good scrub
When are you getting online?
Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
|
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
1589
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 18:03:00 -
[80] - Quote
Prob now
I think we may have PC, not sure |
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Harpyja
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
675
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 18:14:00 -
[81] - Quote
I have decided to remake my spreadsheet from scratch using Google drive. I can't promise a delivery time, but I hope to get it finished soon! (Either tonight US central, or over the weekend)
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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daishi mk03
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
290
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 18:22:00 -
[82] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:I have decided to remake my spreadsheet from scratch using Google drive. I can't promise a delivery time, but I hope to get it finished soon! (Either tonight US central, or over the weekend)
Awesome news! Good luck and make it public afterwards :D
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:my butt, it hurts so much
It was so bad, I had to destroy it. |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
560
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 19:11:00 -
[83] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Needless Sacermendor wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Needless Sacermendor wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:so if I reinvest the same SP Shouldn't you have said **Spoiler Alert** Would be a bit ridiculous if they didn't refund SP after changing the tree like they have. I think it is a safe bet that you will be getting that SP sunk into vehicles back. They only need to refund skills they are removing. And if you will notice Changes that would be all of them.
I see 'CHANGES' ... could you clarify your statement though ... I see a Vehicle Command skill in there, we have that now so that's one that's not being removed ... hmm pretty sure we have a Large Missile Launcher Operation skill at the moment ... I see that in there too.
So what you're saying is ... they're removing 'all of them', but replacing them all with 'different' skills that have exactly the same name and unlock the same types of things ?
And to daishi mk03 ... vehicles and AV are being altered ... like hell you're going to offer total respecs to one side and not the other ... if light weapons (as someone wants) can only affect light vehicles, then I'll need ALL my points back to invest in Heavy suits to fulfil my primary role. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9827
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 19:23:00 -
[84] - Quote
Gunnlogi Brawler
In order to brawl against infantry one must be able to weather the hurt
So blank Gunnlogi
2120 Grid
845 CPU
3 High
2 Lows
Lets start with defenses this time
Enhanced Heavy Shield Extender -216 CPU 419 Grid
Enhanced Heavy Shield Extender - 216 CPU 419 Grid
Enhanced Shield Hardener - 238 CPU 189 Grid
670 CPU 1027 Grid Total
516 CPU 1027 Grid After Skills (Shield optimization 3)
329 CPU 1093 Grid Remains
Now we can worry about offenses
Removing both seats would give me access to
80GJ Ion Cannon (Prototype)
or
X-201 Missile Launcher (Prototype)
or
80GJ Particle Cannon (Prototype)
Now dropping down a teir will allow me to fit a small gun but the max small guns I can get is seemingly 1.
This of course is working around trading off an armor repper or magazine.
This should work in anti-tank duties to a degree but swapping a damage mod is preferable for that. This is better built around being a sledge hammer every minute or so. Drive in blow things up drive out reload, recharge, repeat.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\=Advanced Forge Gun =// Unlocked.
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Public Disorder.
185
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 19:27:00 -
[85] - Quote
Clearly, you do not tank. The skills "name" may be the same, but what it does has changed. And the path you take to get there have as well.
For example, to unlock missiles you need to drop 5 points into turret operation. Currently, you do not need that many points to unlock missiles, like one point I think does the trick. Not to mention the variety offered with the new tree.
Seriously buddy, you seem butthurt that tankers are will get the exact number of skill points back that they put into, to drop into an even bigger SP sink. Sorry they won't be giving out a full respec, but dude, get real already.
Tanks are changing, COMPLETELY. From a tanking perspective yes, I think I should get my points back. I shouldn't have to grind out more SP when I've already had most every point I needed to have a "proto tank". |
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Public Disorder.
185
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 19:35:00 -
[86] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Gunnlogi Brawler
In order to brawl against infantry one must be able to weather the hurt
So blank Gunnlogi
2120 Grid
845 CPU
3 High
2 Lows
Lets start with defenses this time
Enhanced Heavy Shield Extender -216 CPU 419 Grid
Enhanced Heavy Shield Extender - 216 CPU 419 Grid
Enhanced Shield Hardener - 238 CPU 189 Grid
670 CPU 1027 Grid Total
516 CPU 1027 Grid After Skills (Shield optimization 3)
329 CPU 1093 Grid Remains
Now we can worry about offenses
Removing both seats would give me access to
80GJ Ion Cannon (Prototype)
or
X-201 Missile Launcher (Prototype)
or
80GJ Particle Cannon (Prototype)
Now dropping down a teir will allow me to fit a small gun but the max small guns I can get is seemingly 1.
This of course is working around trading off an armor repper or magazine.
This should work in anti-tank duties to a degree but swapping a damage mod is preferable for that. This is better built around being a sledge hammer every minute or so. Drive in blow things up drive out reload, recharge, repeat.
Hmm, stacking extenders, while relying on passive regen to heal you up.
Still I'm a bit iffy on relyin solely on your passive regen. I would almost say drop that extra extender and put on a booster for the extra heals.
I myself will do the same, minus one extender and replace it with a Speed booster. People underestimate the power of speed on your tank, it is godly and what keeps my falchion alive when it is over extended in enemy territory! Besides, isn't speed kinda the key to a hit and run tactic.
|
Harpyja
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
675
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 19:50:00 -
[87] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:Harpyja wrote:I have decided to remake my spreadsheet from scratch using Google drive. I can't promise a delivery time, but I hope to get it finished soon! (Either tonight US central, or over the weekend) Awesome news! Good luck and make it public afterwards :D Takahiro Kashuken wrote:my butt, it hurts so much It was so bad, I had to destroy it.
Do you know how I can make it public but so only I can make changes? (To prevent people from griefing the spreadsheet) People would have to make their own copy in order to actually use it.
Also, so far I've copied the database for all the high power modules and began working on the skills (this won't be a skill planner unfortunately)
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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daishi mk03
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
290
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 19:58:00 -
[88] - Quote
You can click "File -> Share" I suppose and set options, so they can only copy it, not change it. |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
560
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 20:17:00 -
[89] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Needless Sacermendor wrote:
I see 'CHANGES' ... could you clarify your statement though ... I see a Vehicle Command skill in there, we have that now so that's one that's not being removed ... hmm pretty sure we have a Large Missile Launcher Operation skill at the moment ... I see that in there too.
So what you're saying is ... they're removing 'all of them', but replacing them all with 'different' skills that have exactly the same name and unlock the same types of things ?
And to daishi mk03 ... vehicles and AV are being altered ... like hell you're going to offer total respecs to one side and not the other ... if light weapons (as someone wants) can only affect light vehicles, then I'll need ALL my points back to invest in Heavy suits to fulfil my primary role.
Clearly, you do not tank. The skills "name" may be the same, but what it does has changed. And the path you take to get there have as well. For example, to unlock missiles you need to drop 5 points into turret operation. Currently, you do not need that many points to unlock missiles, like one point I think does the trick. Not to mention the variety offered with the new tree. Seriously buddy, you seem butthurt that tankers are will get the exact number of skill points back that they put into, to drop into an even bigger SP sink. Sorry they won't be giving out a full respec, but dude, get real already. Tanks are changing, COMPLETELY. From a tanking perspective yes, I think I should get my points back. I shouldn't have to grind out more SP when I've already had most every point I needed to have a "proto tank".
Clearly you do ... or you wouldn't be 'butthurt' at the idea you might not get your points back to make your decisions again.
I said "They only need to refund skills they are removing." ... which still stands true. Any skills that remain don't NEED to be refunded, if their effects are changed it's called balancing, if their pre-requisites are changed this is the kind of thing that happens Eve side and there's no reason for DUST to be different.
Seriously 'buddy', just because you invested 5 million points in shield HAVs before you realised currently armour HAVs are better, doesn't mean you get the option to undo your mistakes !
I don't want OR NEED a full respec, a partial respec or a single point of SP changing from what I have now, I've spent my points where I need them and use every last one of them. New Eden is a harsh place where your decisions are final ... all these CoD kids seem to take great pleasure in saying how DUST is a joke in the console community, well it will be the joke of New Eden if it becomes the 'change your mind every 5 minutes' people like you want it to be. |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1178
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 20:20:00 -
[90] - Quote
Needless Sacermendor wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Needless Sacermendor wrote:
I see 'CHANGES' ... could you clarify your statement though ... I see a Vehicle Command skill in there, we have that now so that's one that's not being removed ... hmm pretty sure we have a Large Missile Launcher Operation skill at the moment ... I see that in there too.
So what you're saying is ... they're removing 'all of them', but replacing them all with 'different' skills that have exactly the same name and unlock the same types of things ?
And to daishi mk03 ... vehicles and AV are being altered ... like hell you're going to offer total respecs to one side and not the other ... if light weapons (as someone wants) can only affect light vehicles, then I'll need ALL my points back to invest in Heavy suits to fulfil my primary role.
Clearly, you do not tank. The skills "name" may be the same, but what it does has changed. And the path you take to get there have as well. For example, to unlock missiles you need to drop 5 points into turret operation. Currently, you do not need that many points to unlock missiles, like one point I think does the trick. Not to mention the variety offered with the new tree. Seriously buddy, you seem butthurt that tankers are will get the exact number of skill points back that they put into, to drop into an even bigger SP sink. Sorry they won't be giving out a full respec, but dude, get real already. Tanks are changing, COMPLETELY. From a tanking perspective yes, I think I should get my points back. I shouldn't have to grind out more SP when I've already had most every point I needed to have a "proto tank". Clearly you do ... or you wouldn't be 'butthurt' at the idea you might not get your points back to make your decisions again. I said "They only need to refund skills they are removing." ... which still stands true. Any skills that remain don't NEED to be refunded, if their effects are changed it's called balancing, if their pre-requisites are changed this is the kind of thing that happens Eve side and there's no reason for DUST to be different. Seriously 'buddy', just because you invested 5 million points in shield HAVs before you realised currently armour HAVs are better, doesn't mean you get the option to undo your mistakes !I don't want OR NEED a full respec, a partial respec or a single point of SP changing from what I have now, I've spent my points where I need them and use every last one of them. New Eden is a harsh place where your decisions are final ... all these CoD kids seem to take great pleasure in saying how DUST is a joke in the console community, well it will be the joke of New Eden if it becomes the 'change your mind every 5 minutes' people like you want it to be.
There's plenty of skills being changed as well, which I don't think you've realized yet.
Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
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daishi mk03
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
290
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 20:24:00 -
[91] - Quote
They did the same last patch, altered a skill and refunded all SP.
See, every vehicle skill tree gets fundamentally changed and there is absolutely no way to transfer current SP into the new tree. e.g. right now we have shield HAV and armor HAV skills .. soon there will be only one skill. Same is true for upgrades and and turrets.
For AV ... yeah .. there will be no skill changes afaik, only number balance. Range, dmg etc ... so no respecc there. |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
560
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 20:49:00 -
[92] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:They did the same last patch, altered a skill and refunded all SP. Hmm nothing in the patch notes, which skill was that ?See, every vehicle skill tree gets fundamentally changed and there is absolutely no way to transfer current SP into the new tree. e.g. right now we have shield HAV and armor HAV skills .. soon there will be only one skill. Same is true for upgrades and and turrets. For AV ... yeah .. there will be no skill changes afaik, only number balance. Range, dmg etc ... so no respecc there. Edit: I swear to god, SCKR4LIFE, your full quotes and quadruple posts will lead to a bitter end.
So shield HAV and Armour HAV combine to become HAV and any extra points get refunded ... lucky you ! your bad judgement gets wiped out either way.
There is ALWAYS a way ... did you read through that Eve devblog ... they completely changed the skill tree, added new pre-requisites, changed pre-requisite levels, added new skills, adjusted multipliers AND STILL managed to do it without wiping everyones arses for them.
I for one will be GLAD if there are no respecs for AV ... since 90% of people would spec out of it after the changes coming to the swarm launcher and grenades ... at least without a respec there will still be everyone and his dog pulling out AV every time you drop a HAV on the field, if only for the lolz watching you retreat to your cooldowns while knowing several other people have your retreat covered with more AV.
My problem is with people like 'the happy couple' who (certainly one of them) have said they will spec out of vehicles altogether ... what because they've been changed !? Everything in this game has been changed at one point or another.
Answer me one question daishi ... why should one section of the community be allowed to make their decisions again because their stuff is being changed, when you say nobody else should get the option even though their stuff has been changed consistently for almost a year since closed beta ?
EDIT : Damn that's weird ... I hate it when it does that ... your edit definitely wasn't there when I posted this reply, which is why I replied separately ... that and it was on a different subject matter. |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
560
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 20:55:00 -
[93] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:Edit: I swear to god, SCKR4LIFE, your full quotes and quadruple posts will lead to a bitter end.
I give up on him ... there's no point trying to debate ... he doesn't read, he just picks up on a couple of words and argues against a completely different perspective to the point you were making.
He jumps in on threads and starts responding to everything that causes his dummy to land outside of his cot, rather than reading the entire thread to see how it's pregressed.
and when his 'partner' isn't mentioned in a 'post your top ten players' type of thread ... ooh, he just has to ! |
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Public Disorder.
185
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 21:07:00 -
[94] - Quote
Needless Sacermendor wrote:daishi mk03 wrote:They did the same last patch, altered a skill and refunded all SP. Hmm nothing in the patch notes, which skill was that ?See, every vehicle skill tree gets fundamentally changed and there is absolutely no way to transfer current SP into the new tree. e.g. right now we have shield HAV and armor HAV skills .. soon there will be only one skill. Same is true for upgrades and and turrets. For AV ... yeah .. there will be no skill changes afaik, only number balance. Range, dmg etc ... so no respecc there. Edit: I swear to god, SCKR4LIFE, your full quotes and quadruple posts will lead to a bitter end. So shield HAV and Armour HAV combine to become HAV and any extra points get refunded ... lucky you ! your bad judgement gets wiped out either way. There is ALWAYS a way ... did you read through that Eve devblog ... they completely changed the skill tree, added new pre-requisites, changed pre-requisite levels, added new skills, adjusted multipliers AND STILL managed to do it without wiping everyones arses for them. I for one will be GLAD if there are no respecs for AV ... since 90% of people would spec out of it after the changes coming to the swarm launcher and grenades ... at least without a respec there will still be everyone and his dog pulling out AV every time you drop a HAV on the field, if only for the lolz watching you retreat to your cooldowns while knowing several other people have your retreat covered with more AV. My problem is with people like 'the happy couple' who (certainly one of them) have said they will spec out of vehicles altogether ... what because they've been changed !? Everything in this game has been changed at one point or another. Answer me one question daishi ... why should one section of the community be allowed to make their decisions again because their stuff is being changed, when you say nobody else should get the option even though their stuff has been changed consistently for almost a year since closed beta ? EDIT : Damn that's weird ... I hate it when it does that ... your edit definitely wasn't there when I posted this reply, which is why I replied separately ... that and it was on a different subject matter.
All I read was "Your bad judgements, and stopped reading". LOL |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
561
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 21:10:00 -
[95] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:All I read was "Your bad judgements, and stopped reading". LOL
Then I'll make it simple for you ...
Needless Sacermendor wrote:Answer me one question daishi ... why should one section of the community be allowed to make their decisions again because their stuff is being changed, when you say nobody else should get the option even though their stuff has been changed consistently for almost a year since closed beta ?
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daishi mk03
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
290
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 21:17:00 -
[96] - Quote
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it is good to give a full respec for vehicle SP.
Just to elaborate my point a bit: Right now I've skilled Vehicle Command -> Gallente LAV -> Gallente HAV
I never wanted the LAV skill, I had to take it to get the HAV skill. What to do in 1.7? GIve me both, give me only HAV .. ?
With the other skill trees it is even more complicated, since they change radically .. many skills won't even exist in 1.7 anymore (or will be added later again)
I personally would think a full SP refund of those three trees (command, upgrades, turrets) would be okay, if everybody has to spend those SP into the new vehicle trees. This would still allow to change from tank to dropship or whatever, but prohibit people to put those SP into new dropsuits, weapons ... (and I know plenty of people who think they get 10m+ SP back and can skill the new weapons immediately)
However, I don't know whether this is technically possible.
As for AV, not giving them a respec is fine .. people choose av, people killed vehicles with it .. and it will be the same in the future (only less damage)
To the one point with people switching to AV ... this is a strong reason to field a tank, so my infantry can massacre through all the AV guys. |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
561
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 21:45:00 -
[97] - Quote
Sadly I don't think it will be possible to limit where points are spent and I have to agree there's no easy way to manage the points invested in the tree as it is being crossed over to the 1.7 changes.
I've said all along that re-allocations are better than refunds when it comes to racial variants being introduced, but what they're doing here is unnecessary ... they could easily add all the changes they're making without altering the skill tree as much as they are doing ... lets face it, all they're doing is adding ammo (new skills) and changing the values and cooldowns and such on modules (which we already have) to give vehicles 'windows of opportunity' and changing slot layouts on hulls (which we already have) to allow scope to expand to proto hulls. The majority of it could have been done within the scope of the current skill tree with some minor alterations to skill bonuses (which should be handled item side rather than skill side anyway) and some new skills added.
This is why Eve skills unlock stuff ... and that stuff has bonuses applied depending on your levels in various skills. I've said since early in closed beta this is the way DUST should be done too, but they still do it this way and it's flawed when you want to change stuff like this, or introduce new stuff, you have to introduce new skills if you want to apply bonuses to it ! What !!!
daishi mk03 wrote:Concerning people switching to AV ... this is a strong reason to field a tank, so my infantry can massacre through all the AV guys.
This is why Amarr logi suits make the best AV  you don't lose an assault, you still get logistics, you still get a sidearm for defence, your only drawback is your speed which is the same for forge gun AV. |
daishi mk03
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
290
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 22:01:00 -
[98] - Quote
Just think of people who unlocked and/or leveled up enforcers ... they'll have to get 1m+ SP back.
However, I hope that they follow your idea and preserve as much decisions as possible, by allocating SP to the appropriate "new" skills. Could work on vehicle upgrades. For turrets ... e.g. how to split up those points in hybrid turrets?
If they can allocate something like 50% of the SP and not refund all, this would already be great success.
I personally will continue sitting in my madrugar, shooting infantry and retreating every 45 sec behind my squad to wait for my hardener :) |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
562
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 22:17:00 -
[99] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:I personally will continue sitting in my madrugar, shooting infantry and retreating every 45 sec behind my squad to wait for my hardener :)
Except this time it'll be us blowing up the supply depots :-) lol
I'll still be running my swarms I've primaried since half way through E3 build, must be over a year ago now, they were fun back then n so were vehicles, HAVs took skill and tactics to destroy but weren't impossible, dropships could be flown by anyone, rained missiles but skilled pilots could evade AV and LAVs were free quick transport that got one shotted unless you invested a bit. |
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