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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
402
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Posted - 2014.01.24 19:38:00 -
[151] - Quote
As this discussion has changed and evolved, so have my thoughts on the answers to these questions. So I'm going to update my initial answers:
1 - How much should an Aurum respec cost? 2 - How often should they be allowed to happen per character? 3 - Should free respecs ever be allowed again? 4 - Should a respec be "bankable?" 5 - How might this affect the fiction or back story of the game (if we care)?
But I'm also adding in a new one:
6 - Should ISK be allowed to pay for a respec?
1 - I now think at least $20 so the 40,000 aurum is a good start, but more would be ok as well. 2 - Originally i thought once a month was ok, but now I believe that once every 3 months would curtail a lot of the FOTM chasers. 3 - I believe that a free respec should be offered by CCP once all the races' vehicles are added to the game (ie. Amarr and Minmatar). After that probably not for anyone other than newbies who graduate from the academy assuming that they overhaul the academy first. 4 - After thinking about this, the answer should be no. Again to discourage FOTM chasers. 5 - It's easily explained by the fact that the clones are pre-programmed with the knowledges to use stuff in the fiction. 6 - I don't think it will be needed initially. Besides which if players want to work it out themselves, they can always trade ISK privately for other things anyways.
So that's where I'm at for now.
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deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
398
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Posted - 2014.01.24 19:56:00 -
[152] - Quote
use the search function and read the forum rules. this has been said before and nothing new is contributed.
Proud Christian
one of the most essential parts of eve is left out of dust: freedom, exploration, open-world gameplay.
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Maken Tosch
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
6563
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Posted - 2014.01.24 20:01:00 -
[153] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:That is just it. How is paying for a respec = to pay to win? You still had to earn all those skillpoints. You are not magically gaining some skill that no one without a respec can get. Everything you skill into is the exact same stuff that anyone that doesn't pay to get can still get. In fact they can get there for free and you are paying for it? How is that winning?
It enables you to instantly swap SP and focus them into the FOTM as weapons, suits, and vehicles get rebalanced over the next 10 years.
Quote:LOL, Well I have to agree with all those. However I would sit better with #3 if CCP had put out vehicles for all races at the same time instead of forcing the Amarr and Minmatar players to us another races' stuff.
Again, instituting racial parity is the only excuse I would allow respecs and even then you should only get a respec of the items affected.
Quote: ROTFLMAO. If they do that for dorpsuits in 1.8 I'll be very surprised. The only reason they did it in 1.7 was because the skills no longer existed. However they are not removing any skills and thus will have no reason for a refund.
That's still up to debate. CCP is swapping a lot of bonuses around. For example, many players trained up logis to take advantage of the hacking bonus. But now that Minmatar scouts are getting that bonus instead and it looks like the logi bonus to equipment fitting won't affect the cloaking equipment in particular, many logibros out there would want a partial respec of that suit affected.
Quote: I would agree with you except for the problem that you just pointed out yourself above about being force into the wrong suits to begin with. They won't be giving and refunds for that because you can still use the wrong suits even though you no longer like them. So since I know they WON'T be giving us the refund for their mistakes, I am trying to offer an admittedly flawed solution that can make up for it.
Again, only when racial parity is needed would I support a respec and even then I prefer that the respec be limited to items affected. Case in point, the suits and maybe the weapons. But that is up to CCP to decide.
Quote: Ok, I can concede that there may be a negative effect on the boosters market. However that is why they should be more expensive AND limited to only once every 3 or 6 months or maybe even longer. This would not significantly cut into the booster market. However it usually takes a new player around 5 to 10 million skill points to really figure out how they want to play the game.
Honestly, I think it's better that Dust should adopt a proper alternative to the "respec on demand" system you're suggesting. That, to me at least, is the skill book attribute system couple with the Neural Remaps that Eve Online has.
In Eve Online, all skill books have two of the five attributes: Willpower Perception Memory Intelligence Charisma
Every player has these attributes, but depending on the kind of implants that they have, the number of points within these attributes will vary. If you have more points within Willpower and Perception, than any skill book that has these two attributes will be much easier to train into. But you end up taking longer to train up other skill books as their attributes will have less points in them. Every year or so, Eve players are given a chance to rearrange those attributes however they like.
This is nothing like a traditional respec, however, since no SP is being rearranged. Only attribute points and the amount of time invested into a skill book varies. But once you train up a skill to say level 3 that has high attribute points into it, that skill level is yours forever regardless if it loses attribute points in the next Neural Remap.
This can work well in Dust. The more attribute points for a skill book affected, the less SP needed to train it up. Once trained to any level, that level is yours regardless if that book loses attribute points later on.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD
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Maken Tosch
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
6563
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Posted - 2014.01.24 20:08:00 -
[154] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:As this discussion has changed and evolved, so have my thoughts on the answers to these questions. So I'm going to update my initial answers:
1 - How much should an Aurum respec cost? 2 - How often should they be allowed to happen per character? 3 - Should free respecs ever be allowed again? 4 - Should a respec be "bankable?" 5 - How might this affect the fiction or back story of the game (if we care)?
But I'm also adding in a new one:
6 - Should ISK be allowed to pay for a respec?
1 - I now think at least $20 so the 40,000 aurum is a good start, but more would be ok as well. 2 - Originally i thought once a month was ok, but now I believe that once every 3 months would curtail a lot of the FOTM chasers. 3 - I believe that a free respec should be offered by CCP once all the races' vehicles are added to the game (ie. Amarr and Minmatar). After that probably not for anyone other than newbies who graduate from the academy assuming that they overhaul the academy first. 4 - After thinking about this, the answer should be no. Again to discourage FOTM chasers. 5 - It's easily explained by the fact that the clones are pre-programmed with the knowledges to use stuff in the fiction. 6 - I don't think it will be needed initially. Besides which if players want to work it out themselves, they can always trade ISK privately for other things anyways.
So that's where I'm at for now.
To answer your questions.
1. Assuming I am forced to swallow my pride and accept respecs, they should be FREE. No AUR. 2. Again, if forced to swallow my pride... once... in the character's lifetime. 3. Only when an overhaul comes that affects the item in question or racial parity results from it. 4. Hell no. 5. It won't. At least not much at all if it ever does. 6. Maybe since cash is not involved.
Again, I prefer the alternative that I proposed.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
402
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Posted - 2014.01.24 20:35:00 -
[155] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Again, instituting racial parity is the only excuse I would allow respecs and even then you should only get a respec of the items affected.
That's still up to debate. CCP is swapping a lot of bonuses around. For example, many players trained up logis to take advantage of the hacking bonus. But now that Minmatar scouts are getting that bonus instead and it looks like the logi bonus to equipment fitting won't affect the cloaking equipment in particular, many logibros out there would want a partial respec of that suit affected.
I totally agree with the idea of respecs for racial parity or verisimilitude. However if the 1.7 refund is to be used as an example, then CCP even screwed that one up. They added in all the assault rifle variants and never gave any refunds for the Gallente plasma (assault) rifles and the Amar scrambler rifles. They only worried about the vehicle skills that were REMOVED from the game entirely. This leads me to believe that they will likely take the stand that if a skill is not removed, then you are still able to benefit from it so why refund?
As for changing role bonuses, they just did that in EVE online on a massive scale to many many many ships and it was called tiericide rebalancing. They are still in the process of doing it in EVE. But basically a ship that once did one job in EVE now does a completely new job. (Tech 1 EWAR frigs specifically come to mind.) No respecs or refunds occurred there either.
See the real problem is if they allow respecs for suits, then they will need to allow the same for the supporting skills. This is because each race tanks differently. The Amarr use armor, the Caldari use shields. So if you allow a respec for racial parity from Amarr heavy to Caldari Heavy, cool, but now that guy has all these maxed out Armor Upgrade skills that no longer help the Caldari suit as much as maxed out Shield Upgrades would. So now you have to offer a respec on those too?
A lot of the skills in this game are interdependent and are related to one another for an effective whole to be assembled. THAT is the reason that a full respec should be made available and at the control of the players. CCP devs have no real idea how every player in the game is going to come up with ideas on how to use the stuff. CCP just makes the stuff and throws it to us to use in the 'sandbox' and we the players come up with how to best use it. So much evolves in this game and in EVE based on how players decided to do things that were so radically different or unthought of by the devs that the game is more a collaboration of both players and devs than just the devs alone.
Maken Tosch wrote:Again, only when racial parity is needed would I support a respec and even then I prefer that the respec be limited to items affected. Case in point, the suits and maybe the weapons. But that is up to CCP to decide.
Honestly, I think it's better that Dust should adopt a proper alternative to the "respec on demand" system you're suggesting. That, to me at least, is the skill book attribute system couple with the Neural Remaps that Eve Online has.
In Eve Online, all skill books have two of the five attributes: Willpower Perception Memory Intelligence Charisma
Every player has these attributes, but depending on the kind of implants that they have, the number of points within these attributes will vary. If you have more points within Willpower and Perception, than any skill book that has these two attributes will be much easier to train into. But you end up taking longer to train up other skill books as their attributes will have less points in them. Every year or so, Eve players are given a chance to rearrange those attributes however they like.
This is nothing like a traditional respec, however, since no SP is being rearranged. Only attribute points and the amount of time invested into a skill book varies. But once you train up a skill to say level 3 that has high attribute points into it, that skill level is yours forever regardless if it loses attribute points in the next Neural Remap.
This can work well in Dust. The more attribute points for a skill book affected, the less SP needed to train it up. Once trained to any level, that level is yours regardless if that book loses attribute points later on.
Actually this would be an AWESOME idea! I wish they would do that as that would more directly pair the two games together again! I would support that idea. However that would require a big overhaul of how they do the passive skillpoint system and wouldn't happen anytime soonGäó.
I've always thought that the attribute list in EVE was only representative of what the pod pilots used. Hence no Strength and Stamina. But I would think that both games would benefit from the usage of all the skills. So I would see a full list of attributes for both games as:
- Willpower
- Perception
- Memory
- Intelligence
- Charisma
- Strength
- Stamina
This would allow for later direct interactions between EVE pilots (outside of pods) and DUST mercenaries on stations etc. Since pod pilots spend like 90% of their lives in pods, they would probably have minimal Strength and Stamina scores unless specifically cloned into a clone with those stats made to be higher (ie. they do a neural remap). Although the term neural remap would have to be changed to be something like "clone reconfiguration".
But yeah, because DUST had to "dumb things down" when they created their system, they also dumbed down the options for fixing problems. Thus respecs became the defacto way to fix things now. 8(
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
406
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Posted - 2014.01.28 16:51:00 -
[156] - Quote
Bumping as I believe this is still relevant to the future of DUST.
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Ayures II
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
352
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Posted - 2014.01.28 16:55:00 -
[157] - Quote
Down with this sort of thing. Respecs are for scrubs. |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4098
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Posted - 2014.01.28 16:58:00 -
[158] - Quote
Ayures II wrote:Down with this sort of thing. Respecs are for scrubs. Saying no to respecs is also for scrubs.
Want to know how to make a strike through with your text?
[s[Example Text[/s]
Now go Forum Warriors. Use The Weapon!
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Jadd Hatchen
The Phoenix Federation
417
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Posted - 2014.03.27 18:31:00 -
[159] - Quote
Bumping this again as I still believe that it is a relevant topic. To be more specific, the topic is: Should there be respecs for Aurum. Not refunds for patch changes etc. |
Aikuchi Tomaru
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2123
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Posted - 2014.03.27 18:33:00 -
[160] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:Bumping this again as I still believe that it is a relevant topic. To be more specific, the topic is: Should there be respecs for Aurum. Not refunds for patch changes etc.
No.
/closed
Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
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Jadd Hatchen
The Phoenix Federation
419
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Posted - 2014.03.27 18:36:00 -
[161] - Quote
Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:
No.
/closed
/not closed successfully
It's a discussion, not a poll. A simple yes or no answer without any following explanation as to how you got to that opinion doesn't qualify as discussion.
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Dauth Jenkins
Ultramarine Corp
321
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Posted - 2014.03.27 19:06:00 -
[162] - Quote
gbghg wrote:No, respecs should not be made available at all, the only, and i repeat only time that something like that should happen is when they overhaul the skill tree, if only certain skills are being changed then refund the sp in that skill if the change requires it, putting in a pay to respec scheme skips a little too close to the p2w line imo. sp investment is significant, you should not be able to just wipe it away whenever, if well timed it have serious repercussions in a pc battle, it will enable those who pay aur to respec into whatever is the current FOTM gear, effectively turning it into a p2w cycle. an eve saying comes to mind, no sp is wasted, a 100,000 you dump into a useless skill might end up saving you a lot of time if you later decide to switch to a role that gets usage out of that skill.
A respec should be mandatory after the academy, because blueberries spend sp on random stuff before realizing their mistake.
Sees prototompers...
Sees blueberries start to snipe...
Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...
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WUT ANG
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
154
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Posted - 2014.03.27 19:13:00 -
[163] - Quote
Should this topic be a sticky.
4KD Minmatar Assault
Weapon sp refund please
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