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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
4841
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Posted - 2013.10.31 20:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:Kira Lannister wrote:Please don't. I've heard this before... Please elaborate on your reasoning. I'm all ears. ;)
He just posts that phrase for the hell of it.
But still, this is an old ass topic that will continue until the end of time. I bet you 500,000,000 ISK that 10 years now you and I will still see "we want a respec" threads all over the place.
CCP, please fix the Nova Knives. Thank you.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
4841
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Posted - 2013.10.31 20:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:But in a world of console gaming, is it reasonable to assume that players will stick with this game that long if they are unable to correct the mistakes that they made at the start?
But here's the thing though. Console gaming is changing and so is the culture. How can one be certain that respecs are ever going to be needed once the culture has changed?
CCP, please fix the Nova Knives. Thank you.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
4986
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Posted - 2013.11.07 23:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
1 - How much should an Aurum respec cost?
NONE. It will only reinforce the stigma that Dust is pay-to-win.
2 - How often should they be allowed to happen per character?
If we are ever forced into living with respecs, I would say no more than once a year. Eve Online's Neural Remap system (which is nothing like the respecs you know) is offered only once a year to Eve players.
3 - Should free respecs ever be allowed again?
Only when content has been added in such a way that results in A) most or all racial weapons/suits/vehicles are added and B) when the skill tree has been overhauled to the point where it's more practical to just simply give everyone an automatic FREE respec.
4 - Should a respec be "bankable?"
Hell no. Don't let it stack. If you fail to use the respec in the allotted time, you lose it.
5 - How might this affect the fiction or back story of the game (if we care)?
No impact on the back story at all. However, it will greatly impact the overall gameplay for the players.
CCP, please fix the Nova Knives. Thank you.
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Maken Tosch
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
6545
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Posted - 2014.01.23 17:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
No. No respecs outside of skill/suit/vehicle overhauls. That's final.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
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Maken Tosch
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
6546
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Posted - 2014.01.23 18:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:No. No respecs outside of skill/suit/vehicle overhauls. That's final. Ok, you are entitled to your opinion. Can you please enlighten me as to how you got to that opinion?
1. It reinforces the negative stigma that pay-to-win carries. CCP said that Dust 514 is not going to be pay-to-win mainly because they want to avoid that stigma. Flashing pay-to-win in a video game is like flashing a copy of Playboy Magazine in the middle of an evangelical church. The reaction will definitely not be positive.
2. Welcome to New Eden. We have only three rules here. These rules have been around for 10 years. Get use to it.
1) Adapt or Die.
2) Don't use what you can't afford to lose.
3) Accept the permanent consequences of your choices.
3. CCP has already been generous enough to hand out partial SP refunds for overhauling vehicles in this current build as you have seen. They will likely be kind enough to hand out another set of partial SP refunds for overhauling the dropsuits and finally bringing in racial parity for weapons and suits.
4. To reinforce point #3, this allows you to finally spec into that one racial suit you have been waiting for after getting tired of wearing that suit from that dreaded race you always hated. Not every heavy suit in the game is a fan of the Amarr, BTW. That said, not every scout likes the Gallente or Minmatar. But we didn't have much a choice back then, did we? No. We scouts were only given two races (Gallente or Minmatar) while the heavies practically had no choice at all (Amarr only). So once the remaining suits come in, we are likely going to get only a limited SP refund for suits so we can finally pick the race we were waiting for. That's the only exception I can make for respecs.
5. Beyond overhauls and racial parity, I'm going to reinforce the third rule stated in point #2. General respecs on demand (whether free or paid) will undermine the point of the game in which your choices matter. In order for your choices to have meaning, you need to have permanent consequences. If you can just undo those consequences, than your choices had no meaning.
6. Respecs on demand will negatively affect CCP's income source (Boosters) since anyone with 10 million SP or more will simply swap to another specialty without further investment into cross training. Eve Online subscriptions can only cover Dust development for so long. By the way, Eve players wouldn't like it at all to see their subscription money being used to fund a pay-to-win game when they themselves don't like pay-to-win.
7. To reinforce point #6, this will also cheapen the value of skill points. Having any more than 10 million SP will just become pointless since 10 million is usually all it takes to max out one specialty.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
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Maken Tosch
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
6546
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Posted - 2014.01.23 18:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:I think CCP needs to make up it's mind after this release. They need to either say "This is the final respec. Period. Done." and stick with it. Or they need to release AUR respec tokens, an do it that way.
Ooooorrr.... they could just release a series of partial respecs for suits/vehicles/weapons that have been affected due to overhauls and racial parity. I estimate (after this one) we will likely receive an additional partial respec once all racial tanks come out (Amarr and Minmatar).
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
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Maken Tosch
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
6563
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Posted - 2014.01.24 20:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:That is just it. How is paying for a respec = to pay to win? You still had to earn all those skillpoints. You are not magically gaining some skill that no one without a respec can get. Everything you skill into is the exact same stuff that anyone that doesn't pay to get can still get. In fact they can get there for free and you are paying for it? How is that winning?
It enables you to instantly swap SP and focus them into the FOTM as weapons, suits, and vehicles get rebalanced over the next 10 years.
Quote:LOL, Well I have to agree with all those. However I would sit better with #3 if CCP had put out vehicles for all races at the same time instead of forcing the Amarr and Minmatar players to us another races' stuff.
Again, instituting racial parity is the only excuse I would allow respecs and even then you should only get a respec of the items affected.
Quote:
ROTFLMAO. If they do that for dorpsuits in 1.8 I'll be very surprised. The only reason they did it in 1.7 was because the skills no longer existed. However they are not removing any skills and thus will have no reason for a refund.
That's still up to debate. CCP is swapping a lot of bonuses around. For example, many players trained up logis to take advantage of the hacking bonus. But now that Minmatar scouts are getting that bonus instead and it looks like the logi bonus to equipment fitting won't affect the cloaking equipment in particular, many logibros out there would want a partial respec of that suit affected.
Quote:
I would agree with you except for the problem that you just pointed out yourself above about being force into the wrong suits to begin with. They won't be giving and refunds for that because you can still use the wrong suits even though you no longer like them. So since I know they WON'T be giving us the refund for their mistakes, I am trying to offer an admittedly flawed solution that can make up for it.
Again, only when racial parity is needed would I support a respec and even then I prefer that the respec be limited to items affected. Case in point, the suits and maybe the weapons. But that is up to CCP to decide.
Quote:
Ok, I can concede that there may be a negative effect on the boosters market. However that is why they should be more expensive AND limited to only once every 3 or 6 months or maybe even longer. This would not significantly cut into the booster market. However it usually takes a new player around 5 to 10 million skill points to really figure out how they want to play the game.
Honestly, I think it's better that Dust should adopt a proper alternative to the "respec on demand" system you're suggesting. That, to me at least, is the skill book attribute system couple with the Neural Remaps that Eve Online has.
In Eve Online, all skill books have two of the five attributes:
Willpower
Perception
Memory
Intelligence
Charisma
Every player has these attributes, but depending on the kind of implants that they have, the number of points within these attributes will vary. If you have more points within Willpower and Perception, than any skill book that has these two attributes will be much easier to train into. But you end up taking longer to train up other skill books as their attributes will have less points in them. Every year or so, Eve players are given a chance to rearrange those attributes however they like.
This is nothing like a traditional respec, however, since no SP is being rearranged. Only attribute points and the amount of time invested into a skill book varies. But once you train up a skill to say level 3 that has high attribute points into it, that skill level is yours forever regardless if it loses attribute points in the next Neural Remap.
This can work well in Dust. The more attribute points for a skill book affected, the less SP needed to train it up. Once trained to any level, that level is yours regardless if that book loses attribute points later on.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
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Maken Tosch
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
6563
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Posted - 2014.01.24 20:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:As this discussion has changed and evolved, so have my thoughts on the answers to these questions. So I'm going to update my initial answers:
1 - How much should an Aurum respec cost?
2 - How often should they be allowed to happen per character?
3 - Should free respecs ever be allowed again?
4 - Should a respec be "bankable?"
5 - How might this affect the fiction or back story of the game (if we care)?
But I'm also adding in a new one:
6 - Should ISK be allowed to pay for a respec?
1 - I now think at least $20 so the 40,000 aurum is a good start, but more would be ok as well.
2 - Originally i thought once a month was ok, but now I believe that once every 3 months would curtail a lot of the FOTM chasers.
3 - I believe that a free respec should be offered by CCP once all the races' vehicles are added to the game (ie. Amarr and Minmatar). After that probably not for anyone other than newbies who graduate from the academy assuming that they overhaul the academy first.
4 - After thinking about this, the answer should be no. Again to discourage FOTM chasers.
5 - It's easily explained by the fact that the clones are pre-programmed with the knowledges to use stuff in the fiction.
6 - I don't think it will be needed initially. Besides which if players want to work it out themselves, they can always trade ISK privately for other things anyways.
So that's where I'm at for now.
To answer your questions.
1. Assuming I am forced to swallow my pride and accept respecs, they should be FREE. No AUR.
2. Again, if forced to swallow my pride... once... in the character's lifetime.
3. Only when an overhaul comes that affects the item in question or racial parity results from it.
4. Hell no.
5. It won't. At least not much at all if it ever does.
6. Maybe since cash is not involved.
Again, I prefer the alternative that I proposed.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
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