Yes, Scr Rifles are overpowered.

Yes, Everyone now knows it.

Yes they are rapidly becoming the flavor of the month as more and more tryhards have caught wind of this.

Scr Rifle user: "But, they have overheat"

Me: "But, you alpha 89% of my HP with one shot"

Yes they do. They wtf spawned shields but I always struggle with amour tanks

Yes, Scr Rifles are overpowered.

Yes, Everyone now knows it.

Yes they are rapidly becoming the flavor of the month as more and more tryhards have caught wind of this.

Scr Rifle user: "But, they have overheat"

Me: "But, you alpha 89% of my HP with one shot"

Yes, Scr Rifles are overpowered.

Yes, Everyone now knows it.

Yes they are rapidly becoming the flavor of the month as more and more tryhards have caught wind of this.

Scr Rifle user: "But, they have overheat"

Me: "But, you alpha 89% of my HP with one shot"

Yes, Scr Rifles are overpowered.

Yes, Everyone now knows it.

Yes they are rapidly becoming the flavor of the month as more and more tryhards have caught wind of this.

Scr Rifle user: "But, they have overheat"

Me: "But, you alpha 89% of my HP with one shot"

That's what you get for shield tanking


and as a side note, i usually fire 1 charge shot immediately followed by 2-5 shots after to make sure i get the kill

or atleast make them run away

Ill bite.

The fact that it takes a headshot to alpha 89% of your HP completely disarms your argument.

Or he might be running a Militia fit :p

Actually, I either run a Standard Basic Heavy with 2 Repair or A standard MinLogi with Plate/Repair combo and 2 Basic Shield Extenders, 3 Equipment, Gek. I have Shield and Armor Upgrades at 5.

Actually, I either run a Standard Basic Heavy with 2 Repair or A standard MinLogi with Plate/Repair combo and 2 Basic Shield Extenders, 3 Equipment, Gek. I have Shield and Armor Upgrades at 5.

guess i wasnt far off...

Thats not a really sturdy fit considering most of us run either 2 or 3 damage mods, heavies like that don't have enough EHP to stop headshots from swatting it like an andvanced scout, it wouldnt be much diffrent if you meet a Duvolle with 3 damage mods either.

do these things really do less damage to armor?

was wondering if anyone tested it?

I have 700 armor, and these things cut through it like it didn't have anything, theirs no AR i'm really worried about facing, but scrambler rifles just out dps me every time, so trying to pin-point why so i can deal with it later.

Standard SCR's will eat up that little HP that you have if you run standard fits. Most users run either an ADV or Proto SCR, so OF COURSE you wil die in the blink of an eye. With a fit like that, you don't stand a chance against a good SCR user.

Smh. Flawed logic based on your obvious preferences and/or shortcomings is still flawed.

It's actually quite a bit different. One shot from a Duvolle does not drain 89% of my HP. Actually I regularly take out Proto AR guys with that fit. I have much more trouble with the Scr Rifle users. My MinLogi handles them a little better due to the far superior mobility. I have more of a problem with Proto ARs in that fit than my Heavy.

Well you sound like an able guy, surely you wont have any problems to HTFU in the face of a newly discovered threat?

*stomps MLT n00bs with stacked proto squads

*tells players to HTFU

I guess that means get into a n00bstomping que synced proto party corp?

It's actually quite a bit different. One shot from a Duvolle does not drain 89% of my HP. Actually I regularly take out Proto AR guys with that fit. I have much more trouble with the Scr Rifle users. My MinLogi handles them a little better due to the far superior mobility. I have more of a problem with Proto ARs in that fit than my Heavy.

Actually, I either run a Standard Basic Heavy with 2 Repair or A standard MinLogi with Plate/Repair combo and 2 Basic Shield Extenders, 3 Equipment, Gek. I have Shield and Armor Upgrades at 5.

Meh, Happened to me in my Adv. Heavy with 2 comp. Plates too. This is the reason I started using only standard gear.

You can blame my Suits all you want, fact remains you , me and everyone else knows the Scr Rifles are overpowered, it's why everyone is speccing into them. I see them more than Duvolles now and that's saying something.

Yeah HMG spray & pray vs AR Spray & Pray, i can see why you come out ahead there ...most people forget to keep tracking their opponents at all times when firing the AR, most SCR users don't.

Though sounds like both fits fair better though vs diffrent opponents, maybe thats the point ?

Yeah HMG spray & pray vs AR Spray & Pray, i can see why you come out ahead there ...most people forget to keep tracking their opponents at all times when firing the AR, most SCR users don't.

Though sounds like both fits fair better though vs diffrent opponents, maybe thats the point ?

Are you talking about SCRs or ASCRs? I will assume SCRs

So what is your total EHP of the suits you are running? Im sorry but saying that you are using two basic shield extenders leads me to believe that its quite low and would get torn to pieces by any weapon. You would have to give me hard data on any of this before I actually believed you.

You would be complaining about TACs as well if the ROF wasnt gimped with a half-azzed mechanic. Compared to the TAC of old, the SCR is a nerf gun. I have prof 4 and always run a damage mod with mine and it still takes me at least one cool down cycle to take out a half decent heavy fit.. If you havent booked it out of there before the weapon cools down or I have switched to my SMG then the death is completely on you.

You act like the overheat feature is the only thing that is a blancing agent for the SCR
- Requires actual aim rather than spamming the fire button
- Has one of the highest fitting costs even as the basic level
- Is biased toward shields
- Annnnnd overheats

Rei nailed it. Good SCR users will hit you hard first, then methodically pick you apart if you have no cover to run to. Being a heavy, if you are at a distance, you are dead. Period.

And btw....I still see way more AR's still running around and that will never change tbh. SCR is not currently FOTM, as you so lovingly put it. I'm a day 1 user as well and I play enough to know that what you say is simply not true. You just sound upset that there is an emergence of use of the gun and that it has taken you out a few times. Still takes skill to use effectively.

EHP on Standard Heavy with 2 Repairers is 1012 506 shield 506 armor

What you call an "emergenc of use of the gun" I call a flock toward.

It's no secret that most of the "top" corps are flocking to the Scr Rifles. Deny it all you want to, it doesn't make it any less true.

Pff I run 700 on my meatshield logi

There is a concept called "skill ceiling". The skill ceiling on the SCR is higher than on the AR. Go figure.

You call it "skill ceiling" I call it "players flocking to OP weapons"

Surely DUST players would never do such a thing!

You call it "skill ceiling" I call it "players flocking to OP weapons"

Surely DUST players would never do such a thing!

Nice strawman there buddy.
Correlation =/= causation.

So all of these emerging Scr Rifle users are a result of "highly skilled" players finally having a weapon that matches their skill level.

So all of these emerging Scr Rifle users are a result of "highly skilled" players finally having a weapon that matches their skill level. Yea right!

Lemme guess, you have some ocean front property in Arizona you would like to sell me?

Yes, Scr Rifles are overpowered.

Yes, Everyone now knows it.

Yes they are rapidly becoming the flavor of the month as more and more tryhards have caught wind of this.

Scr Rifle user: "But, they have overheat"

Me: "But, you alpha 89% of my HP with one shot"

Tbh...you QQ alot about SCR's. Didn't you make another similar thread about a month ago?

Stop dying. Learn some awareness.

Me: but its not easy to always land that shot. Its a skill weapon, just like the scrambler pistol. Besides, why couldn't it be better than the ar? Why are you not saying that the ar is the fotm?

There's an emerging plasma cannon community. Is that because the plasma cannon is overpowered?

LOL no. This is not comparable. A high RoF weapon such as the Scr Rifle should not be able to alpha 89% of any suit's EHP with one shot.

*stomps MLT n00bs with stacked proto squads

*tells players to HTFU

I guess that means get into a n00bstomping que synced proto party corp?

There scr is ridiculously easy to use, hip fired charged and regular shots most of the time, fk aiming when I can just spam faces with it, I use it on one of my ALTs, its ROFL stomp lol easy. Definitely fotm and sadly will probably get nerfed, its not a skill weapon like people make out and if they think so they must be sht because I'm not an amazing player and I find it easy as fk to use.

And the QQ nerf train rolls onwards.

Do you realise how screwed the SCR user is if they miss that shot?
Where is this 89% coming from?

Are you talking about SCRs or ASCRs? I will assume SCRs

So what is your total EHP of the suits you are running? Im sorry but saying that you are using two basic shield extenders leads me to believe that its quite low and would get torn to pieces by any weapon. You would have to give me hard data on any of this before I actually believed you.

You would be complaining about TACs as well if the ROF wasnt gimped with a half-azzed mechanic. Compared to the TAC of old, the SCR is a nerf gun. I have prof 4 and always run a damage mod with mine and it still takes me at least one cool down cycle to take out a half decent heavy fit.. If you havent booked it out of there before the weapon cools down or I have switched to my SMG then the death is completely on you.

You act like the overheat feature is the only thing that is a blancing agent for the SCR
- Requires actual aim rather than spamming the fire button
- Has one of the highest fitting costs even as the basic level
- Is biased toward shields
- Annnnnd overheats

All of which is easy to manage, especially at operation level 5, by that time if any of those factors are even remotely challenging for you then you suck.

In comparison to what?

EHP on Standard Heavy with 2 Repairers is 1012 506 shield 506 armor

EHP on MinLogi is about 180sih shield 280ish armor. Not sure exactly, would have to log on and check. I run with less HP to have Equipment so I can support my team, you know, what a Logi is meant to do...

LOL at a Heavy "booking it out of there" thats just funny.

Ok, then lets actually apply math to all of this using an ADV SCR which is about 73 base damage

Damage modifiers -
Proficiency 4 = 12%
Complex Dmg Mod = 10%
Total ---- 22% increase

73 * 1.22 = 89 base damage

Charged shot has a multiplier of 2 so that would put us at 178 damage from the get go.

Now, lets add in the bias towards shields. I cant remember if its 120/80 or 130/70 but lets go with 120.

178 * 1.2 = 213 damage against shields for charged shot
89 * 1.2 = 106 damage against shields for standard shot
89 * 0.8 = 71 damage against armor for standard shot

Now lets say that the person firing can get off one charged shot and 5 regular shots before overheat
Charged Shot 1 - 213 damage (295 shield remaining, 506 armor)
Standard Shot 1 - 106 damage (189 shield remaining, 506 armor)
Standard Shot 2 - 106 damage (83 shield remaining, 506 armor)
Standard Shot 3 - 106 damage (0 shield remaining, 483 armor) *used full shield dmg for easier math
Standard Shot 4 - 71 damage (0 shield remaining, 412 armor)
Standard Shot 5 - 71 damage (0 shield remaining, 341 armor)

These six shots can be done in about a second or little more if the person is skilled. Once cooled down (lets say 3 seconds. I cant find the info on the comp) it would take another 5 shots to down the heavy suit.

So now lets look at a trained GEK with a damage mod.

Correct me if Im wrong but I believe that the base damage of the GEK is around 34 per bullet.

Damage modifiers -
Proficiency 4 = 12%
Complex Dmg Mod = 10%
Total ---- 22% increase

34 * 1.22 = 41.5 base damage

The clip holds 60 and can be fired at a rate of 750 RPM (which equates to 12.5 bullets per second).

DPS = 41.5 * 12.5 = 518 damage (0 shield remaining, 496 armor)

Now, in it would only take 1 more second for the GEK to tear through the remaining amount of armor which would be a faster kill than the SCR.

What makes it so the GEK doesnt do that?
#1 - Dispersion - The further the weapon user is away from the target, the more misses s/he will get
#2 - Tracking - As Rei said, people who spray-n-pray are probably not tracking their target which leads to more missed shots

The reason you think the SCR is OP compared to the AR is not because of the weapons themselves but rather the people handling them. Someone using a semi-auto weapon is more likely to line up their shot than one at full auto thus they are more likely to have all of their shots hit as well as have a higher likelihood for a headshot.

Also, the semi-auto weapons are more likely to be used by skirmishers than front line slayers. They will be out of your effective range with a HMG or AR and thus seem to have the upper hand while you are engaged.

Ok, then lets actually apply math to all of this using an ADV SCR which is about 73 base damage

Damage modifiers -
Proficiency 4 = 12%
Complex Dmg Mod = 10%
Total ---- 22% increase

73 * 1.22 = 89 base damage

Charged shot has a multiplier of 2 so that would put us at 178 damage from the get go.

Now, lets add in the bias towards shields. I cant remember if its 120/80 or 130/70 but lets go with 120.

178 * 1.2 = 213 damage against shields for charged shot
89 * 1.2 = 106 damage against shields for standard shot
89 * 0.8 = 71 damage against armor for standard shot

Now lets say that the person firing can get off one charged shot and 5 regular shots before overheat
Charged Shot 1 - 213 damage (295 shield remaining, 506 armor)
Standard Shot 1 - 106 damage (189 shield remaining, 506 armor)
Standard Shot 2 - 106 damage (83 shield remaining, 506 armor)
Standard Shot 3 - 106 damage (0 shield remaining, 483 armor) *used full shield dmg for easier math
Standard Shot 4 - 71 damage (0 shield remaining, 412 armor)
Standard Shot 5 - 71 damage (0 shield remaining, 341 armor)

These six shots can be done in about a second or little more if the person is skilled. Once cooled down (lets say 3 seconds. I cant find the info on the comp) it would take another 5 shots to down the heavy suit.

So now lets look at a trained GEK with a damage mod.

Correct me if Im wrong but I believe that the base damage of the GEK is around 34 per bullet.

Damage modifiers -
Proficiency 4 = 12%
Complex Dmg Mod = 10%
Total ---- 22% increase

34 * 1.22 = 41.5 base damage

The clip holds 60 and can be fired at a rate of 750 RPM (which equates to 12.5 bullets per second).

DPS = 41.5 * 12.5 = 518 damage (0 shield remaining, 496 armor)

Now, in it would only take 1 more second for the GEK to tear through the remaining amount of armor which would be a faster kill than the SCR.

What makes it so the GEK doesnt do that?
#1 - Dispersion - The further the weapon user is away from the target, the more misses s/he will get
#2 - Tracking - As Rei said, people who spray-n-pray are probably not tracking their target which leads to more missed shots

The reason you think the SCR is OP compared to the AR is not because of the weapons themselves but rather the people handling them. Someone using a semi-auto weapon is more likely to line up their shot than one at full auto thus they are more likely to have all of their shots hit as well as have a higher likelihood for a headshot.

Also, the semi-auto weapons are more likely to be used by skirmishers than front line slayers. They will be out of your effective range with a HMG or AR and thus seem to have the upper hand while you are engaged.

a lot of math

Which I'm not saying is inaccurate and it looks very nice on paper like that

BUT

In my Heavy Suit with 506 Shields, 506 armor ONE charged shot takes me down to less than 200 armor, so explain this to me; and if you consider this not to be overpowered you have no business in a balance discussion.

Math is fine on paper, but you need to be looking at the performance of the weapon in the game.

This is not dungeons and dragons.

Well I must be better than I think because I find it seriously easy to own with minimal effort using the scr.

When I fire my charge shot its almost always followed by a volley of at least 2 more single shots, especially for heavies since its very easy to track them.

Maybe thats what you're going against.

I do know the difference between getting shot once and getting shot 3 times...just saying.

When I fire my charge shot its almost always followed by a volley of at least 2 more single shots, especially for heavies since its very easy to track them.

Maybe thats what you're going against.

I find it seriously easy to own with minimal effort using the plasma cannon.

See what I did there? Personal anecdotes don't prove anything. And the fact of the matter, there is data out there that shows it is not too difficult to do well with the assault rifle with minimal effort.

One time a heavy with over 1000 HP got the jumped on my and I turned around and (luckily) unloaded nearly my full TT3 Assault Scrambler Pistol into his head and survived with just 40 armor left. I was convinced we were going to start seeing "Scrambler Pistol OP" threads.

But yes, there is a pretty fast fire rate on the scrambler rifle so it's kind of hard to tell if you've been hit by just one charge shot or by a charge shot and a few quick shots after. I wouldn't call it OP because in a heavy fit like this you are not going to be able to get the kill before overheating, and if you overheat you leave yourself vulnerable long enough that it shouldn't be a problem for the heavy to get the kill.

You really need to equate overheating the scrambler rifle as the quasi "magazine size" since it does create a moment where the user needs to pause for a length of time - even if you don't overheat you have to wait awhile for the heat to cool down. Now, I'm pretty sure an AR can kill a heavy without reloading.

don't blame the thread I just wanted to know if the damage from the SCR had been tested to be accurate against armor as intended.

dust has been known to get things wrong, so this could of been one of those cases.

Which I'm not saying is inaccurate and it looks very nice on paper like that

BUT

In my Heavy Suit with 506 Shields, 506 armor ONE charged shot takes me down to less than 200 armor, so explain this to me; and if you consider this not to be overpowered you have no business in a balance discussion.

Math is fine on paper, but you need to be looking at the performance of the weapon in the game.

This is not dungeons and dragons.

Yes, Scr Rifles are overpowered.

Yes, Everyone now knows it.

Yes they are rapidly becoming the flavor of the month as more and more tryhards have caught wind of this.

Scr Rifle user: "But, they have overheat"

Me: "But, you alpha 89% of my HP with one shot"

don't blame the thread I just wanted to know if the damage from the SCR had been tested to be accurate against armor as intended.

dust has been known to get things wrong, so this could of been one of those cases.

I do in fact think the SCR is broken, but I also think the AR is broken as well, I neither care nor complain since I have enough SP to spec into what ever i want and yes once I get my current targets complete I will spec into the SCR as well unless the combat rifle and rail rifle are out by then.

Which I'm not saying is inaccurate and it looks very nice on paper like that

BUT

In my Heavy Suit with 506 Shields, 506 armor ONE charged shot takes me down to less than 200 armor, so explain this to me; and if you consider this not to be overpowered you have no business in a balance discussion.

Math is fine on paper, but you need to be looking at the performance of the weapon in the game.

This is not dungeons and dragons.

As Tiberius stated, this is about perception. Given that someone can volley a charged shot and about 2-3 regular shots in about half a second it might just be that you are noticing the depletion with a delay.

Also, is this in a strict 1v1 scenario or is there the possibility that you are being engaged by multiple opponents? There has been an instance where I thought I was one shotted by a Militia AR but it was the fact that the AR user was lucky enough to squeeze the trigger the same time as I got head shotted by a Charge Sniper rifle. Without actual data (which CCP wont give us) all of this information is circumstantial and subjective.

Also, the reason that some people seem like easy kills for an SCR is that many are still using cheap fits that are still leaning very much toward shield tanking.

Lets say you have a 500 EHP Caldari Assault that has 380 Shields and 120 Armor.

Without the charged shot you can probably get around 8 shots off.

Standard Shot 1 - 106 damage (274 shield remaining, 120 armor)
Standard Shot 2 - 106 damage (168 shield remaining, 120 armor)
Standard Shot 3 - 106 damage (62 shield remaining, 120 armor)
Standard Shot 4 - 106 damage (0 shield remaining, 76 armor) *used full shield dmg for easier math
Standard Shot 5 - 71 damage (0 shield remaining, 5 armor)
Standard Shot 6 - DEAD

Anything less than that as far as EHP and its like tearing through a wet paper bag.

And my math does not even account for a headshot bonus to damage.

You call it "skill ceiling" I call it "players flocking to OP weapons"

Surely DUST players would never do such a thing!

I do know the difference between getting shot once and getting shot 3 times...just saying.

Im pretty sure that there is a difference between shield/armor from experience as I have more trouble with gallente, amarr and heavies than with caldari and minnies. However, I am not sure if their math is accurate in terms of carryover damage (when a shot depletes shields and remaining damage goes to armor)

Yes it is a strict 1 v 1 scenario.

The fact that the Scr Rifle can take 2 or 3 shots immediately after a charged shot is ridiculous in and of itself.

"Heat build up? What heat build up"

Seriously, I'm not even talking about a guy using it with an Amarr suit, its just *sighs*

I know none of the Scr Rifle users will ever really admit to their precious being overpowered, kinda like the 1.0 Tac Ar Turbo controller users defending their broken ****.

I was thinking this could be where the problem is occurring as well.

If the Scr Rifle starts in shields, is it bugged to the effect of the shield bonus carrying over into the damage to armor.

Where as if the Scr Rifle starts in armor, it does it's proper damage to armor.

Yes it is a strict 1 v 1 scenario.

The fact that the Scr Rifle can take 2 or 3 shots immediately after a charged shot is ridiculous in and of itself.

"Heat build up? What heat build up"

Seriously, I'm not even talking about a guy using it with an Amarr suit, its just *sighs*

I know none of the Scr Rifle users will ever really admit to their precious being overpowered, kinda like the 1.0 Tac Ar Turbo controller users defending their broken ****.

Scrambler Rifles are amazing 1v1 weapons, able to pick of individual targets from medium to long ranges, but engaging in more than 2 opponents will cause you to overheat (even with an amarr suit) before you can finish off the 3rd opponent. The number of potential kills before overheat increases in relation to the distance, longer distance = more time to manage heat build up and pick off more targets, in close range you're probably screwed if you get bum-rushed.

Ive actually managed on many occasions to kill 3-4 pristine tip top never been hit protos before overheat becomes a problem (ofcourse they werent Brick Tanked 1k EHP+ suits, but they had 600-700 EHP each), this is the skill ceiling people are talking about, at medium range and cqc.

Sure you can take the gun and nerf it, leaving me with something i can at best kill 1 guy with before overheating, but how are other people going to be using this gun ?

I know right, they are not gonna be using it at all and then it gets a nice little mantle spot next to the Breach, Tac and Burst and ill be back at using AR's....

It would make sense and probably be the only way you are seeing the damage you are.

Lets say its doing 700 damage to your heavy in one shot
Working backwards..
Imperial SCR - 79 damage
Proficiency 5 + 2 DMG mods ~ 33% (105 damage)
Shield Bias 20% (126 damage)
Charged Shot x 2 (252 damage)
Headshot Bonus x3 (756 damage) *as alluded to by previous poster

So, if this is truely the setup for the SCR then yes, that does seem to be OP but the only way that this can be verified is by CCP given the small amount of hard data they give out on weapons/suits/equipment etc.

You know what guys...

*sighs*

I give up...

You're right...

I'm just a scrub.

I have no situational awareness.

I don't know the strengths and weaknesses of the weapons I use.

I don't know what ranges to engage my opponents at.

I like to run around in the open field firing at Scr Rifle users from 40m away with my MH-82 HMG while standing perfectly still.

The Scr. Rifle is the most skill intensive weapon DUST 514 has to offer.

The game is just so chocked full of Highly skilled players, much more so than myself, which is why the weapon is becoming more and more prevalent with every subsequent match I enter.

The fact that nearly overnight Scr Rifles went from seeing 1 or 2 in a match to seeing full squads of People using Advanced and Prototype Scr. Rifles is indicative of absolutely nothing.

I'm just imagining my shield and armor drop by 90% from one shot.

/scarcasm

So you can have this thread, I'm done.

You know what guys...

*sighs*

I give up...

You're right...

I'm just a scrub.

I have no situational awareness.

I don't know the strengths and weaknesses of the weapons I use.

I don't know what ranges to engage my opponents at.

I like to run around in the open field firing at Scr Rifle users from 40m away with my MH-82 HMG while standing perfectly still.

The Scr. Rifle is the most skill intensive weapon DUST 514 has to offer.

The game is just so chocked full of Highly skilled players, much more so than myself, which is why the weapon is becoming more and more prevalent with every subsequent match I enter.

The fact that nearly overnight Scr Rifles went from seeing 1 or 2 in a match to seeing full squads of People using Advanced and Prototype Scr. Rifles is indicative of absolutely nothing.

I'm just imagining my shield and armor drop by 90% from one shot.

/scarcasm

So you can have this thread, I'm done.

Yea, because shield tanking an Amarr Basic Heavy Frame is the new black!

I avoid speaking for skilled players like yourself, my post is meant to be a generalization of SCR users as a whole.

In that you are correct, that is the Skill ceiling that people are talking about.

I too have mastered the heat build up of my weapon allowing me to take down upwards of 3 or 4 opponents without overheating as well as 1v1ing proto heavies and coming out with half armor and a locked up weapon (because face to face the only way I can take out a heavy is with a charge shot and firing at the head and neck until I overheat, i have found that this is the only way I can face off with a heavy without switching to a sidearm)

In a PC situation, I'm dead if I am not the one dictating the rules of engagement.

Yeah i get the idea, i am always speaking from my own perspective and pub teams, but cant speak from PC battles, i can however say that it is completely impossible to kill other great players if you encounter them in a group, 1 vs 1 can already go both ways and sideways very fast, the slightest disadvantage costs you your clone and shows really how small the skill gap has to be to get totally roflpwned.

The fact that the Scr Rifle can take 2 or 3 shots immediately after a charged shot is ridiculous in and of itself.

"Heat build up? What heat build up"