The SOLE reason I bought some of the packs is for the BPOs.

The SOLE reason I bought some of the packs is for the BPOs.

Zion Shad just asked if his BPO assets are safe in his inventory after BPOs were taken off the market. The reply was that they "aren't safe".

BETTER USE THEM WHILE YOU CAN.

Yes refund the BPO's that ive bought for 30 AUR with 11.000 AUR each then we can talk. I wont accept a stack of regular weapons only pure AUR. Anything else is not debatable.

The general orneriness present in this thread was my initial reaction, too, but listening to the rest of his answer, I think it within the realm of possibility that he misunderstood the question. Midway in I think he said something like "of course you can still use the ones in your inventory", so he may have just been discussing the eventual removal of the Veteran/Elite packs, etc.

If there is a BPO removal, all merc packs should be refunded to cash.

You cannot sell something and then change it, then you get problems with something called the law.

You cannot refund to cash, that's illegal according to sony. Highest level you can refund back to is PSN wallet.

Link to information please?

You guys should read the EULA, it clearly states that by agreeing, you "have no interest in any time or items in game..."
which is basically establishing that you cant sue them over stuff you purchased or time you invested if they decide to remove content or shut down servers on the grounds of thst by agreeing, you legally state you have no financial interest of anything you do or purchase in game.

Yeah, if you read a EULA, its basically them spitting all over your rights to cover their own asses.

You guys should read the EULA, it clearly states that by agreeing, you "have no interest in any time or items in game..."
which is basically establishing that you cant sue them over stuff you purchased or time you invested if they decide to remove content or shut down servers on the grounds of thst by agreeing, you legally state you have no financial interest of anything you do or purchase in game.

Yeah, if you read a EULA, its basically them spitting all over your rights to cover their own asses.

I really hope he didn't understand the question, because if they try to change a product that they have already sold to someone, the law really will have a problem with that. Its called a "bait and switch", and it is illegal just about everywhere. I'm no lawyer, so I might be off on the legality of such a move, but I am a player that will never give money to someone who changes what they sold to me after the fact.

BPOs are very bad for the game especially when the trade btw chars is introduced

just hopping on the "if existing BPOs are removed, will be upset" train.

and no, an aurum or even a psn wallet refund will not make it OK.

It has been confirmed at the round table, all BPO will be gone at some time.

Whatever Happens CCP did a terrible terrible thing. They lead the consumer to BUY BPO's and pack because they where retireing them from market:

Original BPO retirement post

QUOTE:

"So donGÇÖt forget to take advantage of the in-game market now to secure items that you may need before they are gone from the in-game store!"

- CCP FRAME


Picture just in case CCP decides that the post is not good for them.


So CCP first encourages players to buy the BPO's; luring them to spend RL money to be able to buy them to then go ahead and say that BPO's are not safe. I smell a bad deal here.


The truth of the matter is that if CCP lead the consumers to buy BPO's when they could so that they would have them available, making some players spend money so they could have what would be an unobtainable item in the future, then to just even ponder about eliminating them is really bad business. I would even go as far as calling it a potential scam. I really hope that is not what CCP did here. If not they will not only lose my respect but they will also lose the game.

I remembered them encouraging BPO purchases lately and didn't remember where. Thanks.

HAHAHA i was JUST about to buy a 100$ PSN card to buy an Elite pack. FOR THE BPO!!!!

I read this.

Now im getting a Tattoo (or Pokemon Y, depends on what ocmes 1st XD). LOL CCP ....the only real thing people want to buy and you say its not safe to have them? that htere is risk of removal? XD

hahahaa

I'm making my stand on this issue plain and simple people, IF CCP decide to remove my BPOs that I have purchased, I will be launching a legal action against CCP for breaching my consumer rights and failing to adhere to the contact of which they were party to when they sold me the packs. I'm not ******* about with this either guys.

This is a deal breaker for me. Remove my bpos without cash refund and I quit.

I guess that will do then ;)

There is legal precedence for virtual items having real world value. It's outside the US I think though... I guess I'll go looking.

Counter arguably, you bought a software product to which then gets patched to change entirely how it worked and was not what you originally agreed too. Apple's quicktime had such incident' it installed Itunes without permission, which then proceeded to directly wiping out my 12,000 song collection as they where not bought from itunes (nor could they even be bought anywhere) . My compensation from the massive lawsuit? 25 cents because the songs I had, had no value, which I am sure my portion of the taxpayer's cut of that bill was much more than that.

Real Bait and Switches are a bit more common these days, a company will sell a product on a lot, when you get to the store in question to be selling said product at an amazing price and the product in question isn't there but all the other products they want to try to buy are. The stupid little disclaimer at 'participating' stores only lets them get away with this.

As for what is in dust 514's case, I am not sure how to proceed because your money is only used to buy in game currency and you still have full value on that item. What you do with that currency is questionable. As for the other items is where details start gumming things up to the point it may just require a blank option to fix all of it. CCP Could arguably replace the BPOs with X number of copies of the same item for the aurum value would have been for individual copy purchases and argue equal value.

I mean how many people rose a massive amount of stink when ccp changed the stats on these bpos to be different? Changed skill requirements, attributes, performance the other things. All BPOs have been molested with patch updates already. What is the difference if they changed the attribute of the BPO form infinite runs to oh say 2500 runs. Or what if CCP Changed our BPOs to something that you can no longer equip but use as a means of producing your own suits instead?

Like I said anything is possible and in the air.

You cannot refund to cash, that's illegal according to sony. Highest level you can refund back to is PSN wallet.

You cannot refund to cash, that's illegal according to sony. Highest level you can refund back to is PSN wallet.

Aurum refund may involve lawyers (on ccps end) so who knows.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong. If you mean refunding AUR to cash, then I see that being an issue.

Giving people AUR in return for taking away BPOs shouldn't require lawyers on CCP's part surely. It seems the logical thing to do, not to mention the RIGHT thing to do.

I don't have much BPOs in comparison to some people, but I'll still want my AUR back for them, because I bought them thinking I'll have them there as long as I wanted. You can't put something on the market, make people pay real money for it, then take it away without a refund lol

That's like putting out DLC, making people buy it, then say "oops! We didn't mean to put this out" and take it back from people and keep their money. Makes no sense.

From what I understand reversing an item transaction into Aurum on a mass scale would require the advice of the legal team.

Either way until a solution is found that is satisfactory the bpos shouldn't be removed until then.

From what I understand reversing an item transaction into Aurum on a mass scale would require the advice of the legal team.

Either way until a solution is found that is satisfactory the bpos shouldn't be removed until then.

just hopping on the "if existing BPOs are removed, will be upset" train.

and no, an aurum or even a psn wallet refund will not make it OK.

CCP Community team cooking up a massage now.

CCP Community team cooking up a message now.

Will this be out before monday?

Will this be out before monday?

Good. We need something beyond Crowd Control Missives.

https://twitter.com/ccp_praetorian/status/391704802255589376

Direct answer from CCP Pretorian. Expect a forum response soon.

One thing to clarify guys: The removal refers to removing any new sources of BPOs. At this stage there are no plans to remove any BPOs from anyone's inventories.

One thing to clarify guys: The removal refers to removing any new sources of BPOs. At this stage there are no plans to remove any BPOs from anyone's inventories.

We are also looking at whether we want to put in place restrictions to things such as trading and exchange of BPOs. This has not been decided internally, but do be aware this is under discussion.

One thing to clarify guys: The removal refers to removing any new sources of BPOs. At this stage there are no plans to remove any BPOs from anyone's inventories.

We are also looking at whether we want to put in place restrictions to things such as trading and exchange of BPOs. This has not been decided internally, but do be aware this is under discussion.

One thing to clarify guys: The removal refers to removing any new sources of BPOs. At this stage there are no plans to remove any BPOs from anyone's inventories.

We are also looking at whether we want to put in place restrictions to things such as trading and exchange of BPOs. This has not been decided internally, but do be aware this is under discussion.

One thing to clarify guys: The removal refers to removing any new sources of BPOs. At this stage there are no plans to remove any BPOs from anyone's inventories.

We are also looking at whether we want to put in place restrictions to things such as trading and exchange of BPOs. This has not been decided internally, but do be aware this is under discussion.

One thing to clarify guys: The removal refers to removing any new sources of BPOs. At this stage there are no plans to remove any BPOs from anyone's inventories.

We are also looking at whether we want to put in place restrictions to things such as trading and exchange of BPOs. This has not been decided internally, but do be aware this is under discussion.

I'll have more details soon, just thought I should cut that concern off at the pass.

One thing to clarify guys: The removal refers to removing any new sources of BPOs. At this stage there are no plans to remove any BPOs from anyone's inventories.

We are also looking at whether we want to put in place restrictions to things such as trading and exchange of BPOs. This has not been decided internally, but do be aware this is under discussion.

I'll have more details soon, just thought I should cut that concern off at the pass.

Could they even legally do this? There is arguably no item of equivalent value to a BPO.

One thing to clarify guys: The removal refers to removing any new sources of BPOs. At this stage there are no plans to remove any BPOs from anyone's inventories.

We are also looking at whether we want to put in place restrictions to things such as trading and exchange of BPOs. This has not been decided internally, but do be aware this is under discussion.

I'll have more details soon, just thought I should cut that concern off at the pass.

You cannot refund to cash, that's illegal according to sony. Highest level you can refund back to is PSN wallet.

What do you mean, 'at this stage', we all know CCP changes their mind on just about everything, at least 3 times a day, so what's to say we won't be seeing an official announcement come 01/01/2014 stating all BPOs will be removed to make way for the player market.

According to Sony? It's NOT illegal! That's their policy (and not to be confused with the law). EULA cannot event protect that either. It is simply a bait and switch tactic, which it is illegal (if not bait and switch, some form of it). You cannot promote something and people pay with hard earned cash then take it away without refund (psn wallet or aur are NOT refund, thus you guys still keep the money). This is bullshit!

One thing to clarify guys: The removal refers to removing any new sources of BPOs. At this stage there are no plans to remove any BPOs from anyone's inventories.

We are also looking at whether we want to put in place restrictions to things such as trading and exchange of BPOs. This has not been decided internally, but do be aware this is under discussion.

I'll have more details soon, just thought I should cut that concern off at the pass.

You accepted the EULA right? Well then yes. They can do it whether you like it or not. Although they do have to substitute it with item(s) of equal or greater value. Also equivalent value has to be how much the BPOs cost (Not as a whole as a single BPO) so they could just give you AUR as you're refund.

As a consumer you have a legal right to request a refund, regardless of the alternatives they provide. If CCP decides that they won't honor the purchase agreement, and decide to change the terms, you can legally request a refund. CCP and Sony are do not have impunity from EU, US and UK consumer law, regardless of the EULA that theyes make you agree to. The final decision on the matter will ALWAYs rest in the hands of the courts. Btw I've just finished my 4 year studies, 3 of which was spent studying law, consumer rights, and business studies.

Well apparently the ps3 is still sony's property even though you bought it. Well that is according to sonys EULA.

So you get PSN money back if you decide to petition to get a refund in which your characters get wiped losing all the progress you made anyways so I doubt many people will do it unless they're planning on leaving dust.

No court would support an action by Sony to request the return of a PS3 that a consumer has purchased.

If it gets me -ú169.97 (over $200) refunded, I would happily erase DUST514 from my PS3, and spend the money on PS4 titles instead.

You accepted the EULA right? Well then yes. They can do it whether you like it or not. Although they do have to substitute it with item(s) of equal or greater value. Also equivalent value has to be how much the BPOs cost (Not as a whole as a single BPO) so they could just give you AUR as you're refund.

Zion Shad just asked if his BPO assets are safe in his inventory after BPOs were taken off the market. The reply was that they "aren't safe".

BETTER USE THEM WHILE YOU CAN.

EDIT: Shad confirmed with devs that BPOs will in fact be leaving the game once CCP figures out how to PAY YOU BACK for them.

EDIT 2: Jump to dev post to see what Logibro said about no plans to remove BPOs from inventories.

What's with these companies doing this crap. Microsoft pretty much tried to stab its player base in the back, then took it back when gamers got peeved. Gamer communities are like Conan, don't #@*! With them or they'll destroy you. Learn from Microsoft mistakes CCP, cause you seem to be doing similar things.

How are we supposed to bring in new players when they won't have access to stuff everyone else has? I for one, no longer trust you as a company

CCP certainly like taking stuff off their players.

I think it was a miscommunication that was cleared up quickly. Stop being a baby.

That would be a terrible decision.

One thing to clarify guys: The removal refers to removing any new sources of BPOs. At this stage there are no plans to remove any BPOs from anyone's inventories.

We are also looking at whether we want to put in place restrictions to things such as trading and exchange of BPOs. This has not been decided internally, but do be aware this is under discussion.

I'll have more details soon, just thought I should cut that concern off at the pass.

You cannot refund to cash, that's illegal according to sony. Highest level you can refund back to is PSN wallet.

I think it was a miscommunication that was cleared up quickly. Stop being a baby.

We are also looking at whether we want to put in place restrictions to things such as trading and exchange of BPOs. This has not been decided internally, but do be aware this is under discussion.

We are also looking at whether we want to put in place restrictions to things such as trading and exchange of BPOs. This has not been decided internally, but do be aware this is under discussion.

Zion Shad: Hey guys, I play under a name called Zion Shad and first I want to say, thank you. Todays Dust is the Dust I wanted back in closed beta. We have our corporate roles, we've got our corporate tax, everything's good. I'm loving the game, Y'know despite all the hiccups and stuff. I'm worried about my BPOs. I keep looking and there's none on the market, and I keep looking at my assets and they're still there. Are they safe, am I good?

CCP: They're not safe.

Zion Shad: They're not safe!? What kind of, err, is there gonna be some kind of reimbursement? What do you guys have planned for it? If you're going to eliminate the ones from the players, they're owning.

CCP: I can't really say, err, what our plans for that is because I don't know. We haven't decided basically. But BPOs are not good for the economy. We firmly believe that. We've seen a dip in the usage of other items. They're very convenient for you, but for the overall economy and the burn of ISK in the economy and stuff like that BPOs had a very negative impact. So we are retiring, or at least pulling them off the market but you can still use them and stuff like that, and maybe we'll take that a step, or steps, further, but we are compensating you with [a] rebalance of the item tree, adding in the Loyalty Points store items and stuff like that.

Zion Shad just asked if his BPO assets are safe in his inventory after BPOs were taken off the market. The reply was that they "aren't safe".

BETTER USE THEM WHILE YOU CAN.

EDIT: Shad confirmed with devs that BPOs will in fact be leaving the game once CCP figures out how to PAY YOU BACK for them.

EDIT 2: Jump to dev post to see what Logibro said about no plans to remove BPOs from inventories.

One thing to clarify guys: The removal refers to removing any new sources of BPOs. At this stage there are no plans to remove any BPOs from anyone's inventories.

We are also looking at whether we want to put in place restrictions to things such as trading and exchange of BPOs. This has not been decided internally, but do be aware this is under discussion.

I'll have more details soon, just thought I should cut that concern off at the pass.

Its funny how everyone is:"hey its my money", when respec boyos was:"hey i put my SPs in that skill" most of boyos was like" "just overcome and STFU" XD

So... what about making BPOs actual BPOs like in EVE?

One thing to clarify guys: The removal refers to removing any new sources of BPOs. At this stage there are no plans to remove any BPOs from anyone's inventories.

We are also looking at whether we want to put in place restrictions to things such as trading and exchange of BPOs. This has not been decided internally, but do be aware this is under discussion.

I'll have more details soon, just thought I should cut that concern off at the pass.

So... what about making BPOs actual BPOs like in EVE?

You accepted the EULA right? Well then yes. They can do it whether you like it or not. Although they do have to substitute it with item(s) of equal or greater value. Also equivalent value has to be how much the BPOs cost (Not as a whole as a single BPO) so they could just give you AUR as you're refund.

One thing to clarify guys: The removal refers to removing any new sources of BPOs. At this stage there are no plans to remove any BPOs from anyone's inventories.

We are also looking at whether we want to put in place restrictions to things such as trading and exchange of BPOs. This has not been decided internally, but do be aware this is under discussion.

I'll have more details soon, just thought I should cut that concern off at the pass.

Did I miss a link somewhere or is this all really based on one persons out of context assumptions that we can't verify...

Oh wait, post 142 above mine translates the hyperbole into something that is probably closer to reality?

Just so folks don't have to sift through bits, from the EvE Vegas recording:


[1] Twitch rough EvE Vegas recording -- Time index 04:55:53-04:57:17

Could they even legally do this? There is arguably no item of equivalent value to a BPO.

Aurum refund may involve lawyers (on ccps end) so who knows. Not saying its impossible but there are a lot of options available.

Yes there is ....... the aurum you payed for it

One thing to clarify guys: The removal refers to removing any new sources of BPOs. At this stage there are no plans to remove any BPOs from anyone's inventories.

We are also looking at whether we want to put in place restrictions to things such as trading and exchange of BPOs. This has not been decided internally, but do be aware this is under discussion.

I'll have more details soon, just thought I should cut that concern off at the pass.

Lock them from being traded/sold, problem solved. Then dust can finally move forward(trading). They chose to take advantage, let them sit on em for eternity.

Actually with the closed beta testers being given BPO's as a reward for sticking with this broken ass game, there is no equivalent for the recovery of our time.

Beta testers got to play the game, influence it's evolution (not necessarily good or bad) and so far keep a lot of SP. I think they have been well remunerated for their time.

However, in general, nobody owes beta testers anything... they are beta testers... they donate time by choice. That era has been and gone.

Lock them from being traded/sold, problem solved. Then dust can finally move forward(trading). They chose to take advantage, let them sit on em for eternity.

If they went in a route like eve, then i'd be okay with a bpo that is maxed researched because if I remember right, those take months to research if done in highsec. Although, i'd imagine this would not make the majority of bpo holders content. They bought something with the expectation of keeping it as they currently function.

I can think of a couple more possible solutions, but in every solution, there will be a population of bpo holders that get screwed. Even if they don't do anything and let them be traded, new comers get screwed because they were never given the chance to buy them and now must pay a couple 100 million isk for a militia/standard item. Although, in time, the bpo's will be left on inactive characters and they will have less and less impact on the economy. In my opinion, this is probably the best way to go as long as they retain their current function and can never be used to mass manufacture them for the market.

Although, I think they underestimate the bpo holders because if they are still using them with high sp, then i'd imagine they would be willing to use the free starter fits. They aren't that horrible.

One thing to clarify guys: The removal refers to removing any new sources of BPOs. At this stage there are no plans to remove any BPOs from anyone's inventories.

We are also looking at whether we want to put in place restrictions to things such as trading and exchange of BPOs. This has not been decided internally, but do be aware this is under discussion.

I'll have more details soon, just thought I should cut that concern off at the pass.

If they went in a route like eve, then i'd be okay with a bpo that is maxed researched because if I remember right, those take months to research if done in highsec. Although, i'd imagine this would not make the majority of bpo holders content. They bought something with the expectation of keeping it as they currently function.

....

Although, I think they underestimate the bpo holders because if they are still using them with high sp, then i'd imagine they would be willing to use the free starter fits. They aren't that horrible.

i didnt pay hundreds of dollars to use starter fits... that would be a great injustice

CCP has a ethical obligation as an international business to uphold their own word and maintain their reputation...