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"BPOs aren't safe" - CCP at EVE Vegas

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1846	Posted - 2013.10.19 23:36:00 - [91] - Quote Could they even legally do this? There is arguably no item of equivalent value to a BPO.
crazy space 1 Unkn0wn Killers 1868	Posted - 2013.10.19 23:36:00 - [92] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: One thing to clarify guys: The removal refers to removing any new sources of BPOs. At this stage there are no plans to remove any BPOs from anyone's inventories. We are also looking at whether we want to put in place restrictions to things such as trading and exchange of BPOs. This has not been decided internally, but do be aware this is under discussion. I'll have more details soon, just thought I should cut that concern off at the pass. You guys are seriously turning the games direction around ! :D
Friendly Woodsman Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 110	Posted - 2013.10.19 23:36:00 - [93] - Quote Well, I am really happy they responded so fast. I was about to have a breakout of feels over this.
KING CHECKMATE AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 1915	Posted - 2013.10.19 23:37:00 - [94] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: One thing to clarify guys: The removal refers to removing any new sources of BPOs. At this stage there are no plans to remove any BPOs from anyone's inventories. We are also looking at whether we want to put in place restrictions to things such as trading and exchange of BPOs. This has not been decided internally, but do be aware this is under discussion. I'll have more details soon, just thought I should cut that concern off at the pass. And i was really looking foward for another tat.... :/
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2084	Posted - 2013.10.19 23:38:00 - [95] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Could they even legally do this? There is arguably no item of equivalent value to a BPO. You accepted the EULA right? Well then yes. They can do it whether you like it or not. Although they do have to substitute it with item(s) of equal or greater value.
Yelhsa Jin-Mao Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 49	Posted - 2013.10.19 23:39:00 - [96] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: One thing to clarify guys: The removal refers to removing any new sources of BPOs. At this stage there are no plans to remove any BPOs from anyone's inventories. We are also looking at whether we want to put in place restrictions to things such as trading and exchange of BPOs. This has not been decided internally, but do be aware this is under discussion. I'll have more details soon, just thought I should cut that concern off at the pass. What do you mean, 'at this stage', we all know CCP changes their mind on just about everything, at least 3 times a day, so what's to say we won't be seeing an official announcement come 01/01/2014 stating all BPOs will be removed to make way for the player market.
Vanu Commander Chaos-Breaker 0	Posted - 2013.10.19 23:40:00 - [97] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: If there is a BPO removal, all merc packs should be refunded to cash. You cannot sell something and then change it, then you get problems with something called the law. You cannot refund to cash, that's illegal according to sony. Highest level you can refund back to is PSN wallet. According to Sony? It's NOT illegal! That's their policy (and not to be confused with the law). EULA cannot event protect that either. It is simply a bait and switch tactic, which it is illegal (if not bait and switch, some form of it). You cannot promote something and people pay with hard earned cash then take it away without refund (psn wallet or aur are NOT refunds, thus you guys still keep the money). This is bullshit!
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2084	Posted - 2013.10.19 23:41:00 - [98] - Quote Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: One thing to clarify guys: The removal refers to removing any new sources of BPOs. At this stage there are no plans to remove any BPOs from anyone's inventories. We are also looking at whether we want to put in place restrictions to things such as trading and exchange of BPOs. This has not been decided internally, but do be aware this is under discussion. I'll have more details soon, just thought I should cut that concern off at the pass. What do you mean, 'at this stage', we all know CCP changes their mind on just about everything, at least 3 times a day, so what's to say we won't be seeing an official announcement come 01/01/2014 stating all BPOs will be removed to make way for the player market. They can do that if they wanted to. If you don't trust them then don't buy products from them.
Centurion mkII SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 142	Posted - 2013.10.19 23:42:00 - [99] - Quote I think BPOs should be allowed to be traded. Maybe first restrict it then allow it later? This will mean more people with the BPOs quit so it wouldn't totally make the standard versions worthless. I see them as limited edition ships in eve online.
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2084	Posted - 2013.10.19 23:42:00 - [100] - Quote Vanu Commander wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: If there is a BPO removal, all merc packs should be refunded to cash. You cannot sell something and then change it, then you get problems with something called the law. You cannot refund to cash, that's illegal according to sony. Highest level you can refund back to is PSN wallet. According to Sony? It's NOT illegal! That's their policy (and not to be confused with the law). EULA cannot event protect that either. It is simply a bait and switch tactic, which it is illegal (if not bait and switch, some form of it). You cannot promote something and people pay with hard earned cash then take it away without refund (psn wallet or aur are NOT refund, thus you guys still keep the money). This is bullshit! Well apparently the ps3 is still sony's property even though you bought it. Well that is according to sonys EULA.

Raskutor DUST University Ivy League 15	Posted - 2013.10.19 23:43:00 - [101] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: One thing to clarify guys: The removal refers to removing any new sources of BPOs. At this stage there are no plans to remove any BPOs from anyone's inventories. We are also looking at whether we want to put in place restrictions to things such as trading and exchange of BPOs. This has not been decided internally, but do be aware this is under discussion. I'll have more details soon, just thought I should cut that concern off at the pass. This is great news. However, one question still remains: the BPO's we currently own, while now being "safe"; will they maintain the same functionality? Meaning permanence. Or are you unable to answer that at this time? The reason I ask is because the permanent feature of the BPO's is the only reason I had put money in the packs.
Yelhsa Jin-Mao Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 49	Posted - 2013.10.19 23:45:00 - [102] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: Could they even legally do this? There is arguably no item of equivalent value to a BPO. You accepted the EULA right? Well then yes. They can do it whether you like it or not. Although they do have to substitute it with item(s) of equal or greater value. Also equivalent value has to be how much the BPOs cost (Not as a whole as a single BPO) so they could just give you AUR as you're refund. As a consumer you have a legal right to request a refund, regardless of the alternatives they provide. If CCP decides that they won't honor the purchase agreement, and decide to change the terms, you can legally request a refund. CCP and Sony are do not have impunity from EU, US and UK consumer law, regardless of the EULA that theyes make you agree to. The final decision on the matter will ALWAYs rest in the hands of the courts. Btw I've just finished my 4 year studies, 3 of which was spent studying law, consumer rights, and business studies.
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2084	Posted - 2013.10.19 23:48:00 - [103] - Quote Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: Could they even legally do this? There is arguably no item of equivalent value to a BPO. You accepted the EULA right? Well then yes. They can do it whether you like it or not. Although they do have to substitute it with item(s) of equal or greater value. Also equivalent value has to be how much the BPOs cost (Not as a whole as a single BPO) so they could just give you AUR as you're refund. As a consumer you have a legal right to request a refund, regardless of the alternatives they provide. If CCP decides that they won't honor the purchase agreement, and decide to change the terms, you can legally request a refund. CCP and Sony are do not have impunity from EU, US and UK consumer law, regardless of the EULA that theyes make you agree to. The final decision on the matter will ALWAYs rest in the hands of the courts. Btw I've just finished my 4 year studies, 3 of which was spent studying law, consumer rights, and business studies. So you get PSN money back if you decide to petition to get a refund in which your characters get wiped losing all the progress you made anyways so I doubt many people will do it unless they're planning on leaving dust.
Yelhsa Jin-Mao Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 50	Posted - 2013.10.19 23:49:00 - [104] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Vanu Commander wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: If there is a BPO removal, all merc packs should be refunded to cash. You cannot sell something and then change it, then you get problems with something called the law. You cannot refund to cash, that's illegal according to sony. Highest level you can refund back to is PSN wallet. According to Sony? It's NOT illegal! That's their policy (and not to be confused with the law). EULA cannot event protect that either. It is simply a bait and switch tactic, which it is illegal (if not bait and switch, some form of it). You cannot promote something and people pay with hard earned cash then take it away without refund (psn wallet or aur are NOT refund, thus you guys still keep the money). This is bullshit! Well apparently the ps3 is still sony's property even though you bought it. Well that is according to sonys EULA. No court would support an action by Sony to request the return of a PS3 that a consumer has purchased.
Yelhsa Jin-Mao Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 50	Posted - 2013.10.19 23:51:00 - [105] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: Could they even legally do this? There is arguably no item of equivalent value to a BPO. You accepted the EULA right? Well then yes. They can do it whether you like it or not. Although they do have to substitute it with item(s) of equal or greater value. Also equivalent value has to be how much the BPOs cost (Not as a whole as a single BPO) so they could just give you AUR as you're refund. As a consumer you have a legal right to request a refund, regardless of the alternatives they provide. If CCP decides that they won't honor the purchase agreement, and decide to change the terms, you can legally request a refund. CCP and Sony are do not have impunity from EU, US and UK consumer law, regardless of the EULA that theyes make you agree to. The final decision on the matter will ALWAYs rest in the hands of the courts. Btw I've just finished my 4 year studies, 3 of which was spent studying law, consumer rights, and business studies. So you get PSN money back if you decide to petition to get a refund in which your characters get wiped losing all the progress you made anyways so I doubt many people will do it unless they're planning on leaving dust. If it gets me -ú169.97 (over $200) refunded, I would happily erase DUST514 from my PS3, and spend the money on PS4 titles instead.
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2084	Posted - 2013.10.19 23:51:00 - [106] - Quote Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Vanu Commander wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: If there is a BPO removal, all merc packs should be refunded to cash. You cannot sell something and then change it, then you get problems with something called the law. You cannot refund to cash, that's illegal according to sony. Highest level you can refund back to is PSN wallet. According to Sony? It's NOT illegal! That's their policy (and not to be confused with the law). EULA cannot event protect that either. It is simply a bait and switch tactic, which it is illegal (if not bait and switch, some form of it). You cannot promote something and people pay with hard earned cash then take it away without refund (psn wallet or aur are NOT refund, thus you guys still keep the money). This is bullshit! Well apparently the ps3 is still sony's property even though you bought it. Well that is according to sonys EULA. No court would support an action by Sony to request the return of a PS3 that a consumer has purchased. You obviously don't know nothing about sony's cases against the people who first hacked their ps3s and released them publicly. I suggest looking at those cases since they were quite messed up. (Read into graf chokolo and geohots for the main cases but there are many others too)
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2084	Posted - 2013.10.19 23:55:00 - [107] - Quote Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: Could they even legally do this? There is arguably no item of equivalent value to a BPO. You accepted the EULA right? Well then yes. They can do it whether you like it or not. Although they do have to substitute it with item(s) of equal or greater value. Also equivalent value has to be how much the BPOs cost (Not as a whole as a single BPO) so they could just give you AUR as you're refund. As a consumer you have a legal right to request a refund, regardless of the alternatives they provide. If CCP decides that they won't honor the purchase agreement, and decide to change the terms, you can legally request a refund. CCP and Sony are do not have impunity from EU, US and UK consumer law, regardless of the EULA that theyes make you agree to. The final decision on the matter will ALWAYs rest in the hands of the courts. Btw I've just finished my 4 year studies, 3 of which was spent studying law, consumer rights, and business studies. So you get PSN money back if you decide to petition to get a refund in which your characters get wiped losing all the progress you made anyways so I doubt many people will do it unless they're planning on leaving dust. If it gets me -ú169.97 (over $200) refunded, I would happily erase DUST514 from my PS3, and spend the money on PS4 titles instead. Then why not do it? People have done it before.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 4505	Posted - 2013.10.20 00:07:00 - [108] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: Could they even legally do this? There is arguably no item of equivalent value to a BPO. You accepted the EULA right? Well then yes. They can do it whether you like it or not. Although they do have to substitute it with item(s) of equal or greater value. Also equivalent value has to be how much the BPOs cost (Not as a whole as a single BPO) so they could just give you AUR as you're refund. There is a huge problem with giving AURUM as a refund. Once upon a time just before the transition from closed beta to open beta, Dust players were able to purchase Blueprint Originals (BPOs) at prices such as 100 AURUM per unit. Many players purchased only singular quantities such as one BPO for each module or weapon and then spent the remainder of their AURUM on things like 'NEO' dropsuits and boosters. But at the same time, there were a small number of players who decided to use all of their AUR strictly on purchased BPOs in vast quantities thinking they will one day sell them to other player for ISK once the secondary market arrives. But once Dust 514 hit open beta, the prices of the BPOs skyrocketed to as much as thousands or tens of thousands of AURUM like you see right now. Then CCP put out an announcement stating that they will refund player assets including the refunding of BPOs in order to get the market in equal grounds. This was back in May 14 of this year. BPOs weren't getting removed from the market at this time. Only that the owners of the BPOs would be refunded AURUM at the new high price so they can purchase the BPOs back later on. But then word leaked that some players had stockpiled large quantities of these BPOs. About as much as 50-100 units per unique BPO. These BPOs were bought at closed-beta prices (extremely cheap) and CCP was planning on refunding BPO owners at open-beta prices (expensive). If the owners were refunded, that meant that those few players will have the advantage of owning a lot of AURUM that is magically created out of thin air without cash involved which presented a huge financial and economic problem. Imagine you bought a 500 units of BPOs at a price of 100 AUR a piece in closed beta. That cost you 50,000 AUR back then. Just a little bit more what you got from a regular AUR merc pack. Then CCP changes the prices to about 1000 AUR a piece and every get's refunded the AURUM at that price. Suddenly you get 450,000 extra AUR out of thin air. Now imagine the players that stockpiled as much as 1000 units. One players stocked up enough BPO to get an estimated 1-4 million AUR as a result. Because of this, CCP changed their minds and let the current owners just keep their BPOs.
Spectre-M The Generals EoN. 77	Posted - 2013.10.20 00:10:00 - [109] - Quote DS 10 wrote: Zion Shad just asked if his BPO assets are safe in his inventory after BPOs were taken off the market. The reply was that they "aren't safe". BETTER USE THEM WHILE YOU CAN. EDIT: Shad confirmed with devs that BPOs will in fact be leaving the game once CCP figures out how to PAY YOU BACK for them. EDIT 2: Jump to dev post to see what Logibro said about no plans to remove BPOs from inventories. What's with these companies doing this crap. Microsoft pretty much tried to stab its player base in the back, then took it back when gamers got peeved. Gamer communities are like Conan, don't #@*! With them or they'll destroy you. Learn from Microsoft mistakes CCP, cause you seem to be doing similar things. How are we supposed to bring in new players when they won't have access to stuff everyone else has? I for one, no longer trust you as a company
Mors The Butcher Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 6	Posted - 2013.10.20 00:11:00 - [110] - Quote You obviously don't know nothing about sony's cases against the people who first hacked their ps3s and released them publicly. I suggest looking at those cases since they were quite messed up. (Read into graf chokolo and geohots for the main cases but there are many others too) @ Kane Fyea Well they sure hired the guy that hacked theyre net work

Ghural The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 161	Posted - 2013.10.20 00:12:00 - [111] - Quote CCP certainly like taking stuff off their players.
DS 10 Ancient Exiles 1125	Posted - 2013.10.20 00:18:00 - [112] - Quote Spectre-M wrote: DS 10 wrote: Zion Shad just asked if his BPO assets are safe in his inventory after BPOs were taken off the market. The reply was that they "aren't safe". BETTER USE THEM WHILE YOU CAN. EDIT: Shad confirmed with devs that BPOs will in fact be leaving the game once CCP figures out how to PAY YOU BACK for them. EDIT 2: Jump to dev post to see what Logibro said about no plans to remove BPOs from inventories. What's with these companies doing this crap. Microsoft pretty much tried to stab its player base in the back, then took it back when gamers got peeved. Gamer communities are like Conan, don't #@*! With them or they'll destroy you. Learn from Microsoft mistakes CCP, cause you seem to be doing similar things. How are we supposed to bring in new players when they won't have access to stuff everyone else has? I for one, no longer trust you as a company I think it was a miscommunication that was cleared up quickly. Stop being a baby.
Yelhsa Jin-Mao Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 51	Posted - 2013.10.20 00:19:00 - [113] - Quote Ghural wrote: CCP certainly like taking stuff off their players. Yes, and yet they give us so little. So little SP, so little guidance in academy, so little ISK, so little reason to play on after reaching the SP cap, so little reason to trust them, and so little reason to believe DUST514 will survive past 2015.
Protocake JR Ancient Exiles 787	Posted - 2013.10.20 00:25:00 - [114] - Quote DS 10 wrote: Spectre-M wrote: DS 10 wrote: Zion Shad just asked if his BPO assets are safe in his inventory after BPOs were taken off the market. The reply was that they "aren't safe". BETTER USE THEM WHILE YOU CAN. EDIT: Shad confirmed with devs that BPOs will in fact be leaving the game once CCP figures out how to PAY YOU BACK for them. EDIT 2: Jump to dev post to see what Logibro said about no plans to remove BPOs from inventories. What's with these companies doing this crap. Microsoft pretty much tried to stab its player base in the back, then took it back when gamers got peeved. Gamer communities are like Conan, don't #@*! With them or they'll destroy you. Learn from Microsoft mistakes CCP, cause you seem to be doing similar things. How are we supposed to bring in new players when they won't have access to stuff everyone else has? I for one, no longer trust you as a company I think it was a miscommunication that was cleared up quickly. Stop being a baby. They've been wanting to get rid of BPO's for a while. I think they are still just figuring out how to do it with the least amount of backlash.
Sam Tektzby Better Hide R Die 3	Posted - 2013.10.20 01:15:00 - [115] - Quote Its funny how everyone is:"hey its my money", when respec boyos was:"hey i put my SPs in that skill" most of boyos was like" "just overcome and STFU" XD
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 771	Posted - 2013.10.20 01:18:00 - [116] - Quote We really need to read up on our EULA.
Arrach Sarkal PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 7	Posted - 2013.10.20 01:21:00 - [117] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: That would be a terrible decision. CCP making terrible decisions? Perish the thought.
XxGhazbaranxX Bannana Boat Corp 422	Posted - 2013.10.20 01:22:00 - [118] - Quote They should leave things as they are. Remove all BPO's from market and keep making worth while offers for aurum equipment. Maybe even introduce a system where you can go to an aurum fit generator and make your favorite fit and be able to buy a complete cusoum aurum suit and be able to restock it with rl money instead of having to do the aurum conversion while getting discount prices for fitting your whole suit aurum
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 1027	Posted - 2013.10.20 01:26:00 - [119] - Quote So if they're just removing all BPOs from Sales - not your Assets, I guess I'll throw down the funds for a Veteran Pack for the LAV. (Almost time to restock 3 Day Boosters anyways...)
Amarrian Desperado Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 45	Posted - 2013.10.20 01:31:00 - [120] - Quote I would think that one way of handling this if it really is all that terrible for the in game economy is adding "cosmetic slots" to fittings and changing BPOs to unlimited-use possibly exclusive cosmetic modifications. Take your rare SVER mod and put it on a proto dropsuit AND your proto combat rfile. Go nuts! What about the people who bought thousands of militia bpos at 30 aur a pop hoping to game the system for profit? ***, I don't know. Might be less trouble to leave them as is. I mean, its a finite number of free replacement tokens for the worst items in the game*. EVE isn't falling apart because everyone can get rookie ships with civilian guns for free. They were cute deals at 30 aur a pop, and completely stupid at 9k aur. You're saving what, 5,000 isk per full militia fit? You would have to be going out of your way to play as intentionally terrible as possible to lose any significant amount of isk in a match dying in militia fits. Who cares if there are a couple thousand of these things floating around as novelty items being traded between collectors with too much isk, like the civilian module BPOs in EVE?



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