should i also mention that damage mods r the problem when it comes to the forge guns?

maybe u r being shot down by a breach forge?.

as thats the only variant that can ohk mostly any vehicle..

the reg fg and assault forge gun r better vs infantry than vehicles.

if u r complaining about losing derpships to a fg run an armor repper on your ship..

it will save it from falling to the ground if u r fast enough.

1 is needed, I'd like to point out that assault weapon variants have higher ROF and lower damage.

Troll away, denial is expected.

should i also mention that damage mods r the problem when it comes to the forge guns?

maybe u r being shot down by a breach forge?.

as thats the only variant that can ohk mostly any vehicle..

the reg fg and assault forge gun r better vs infantry than vehicles.

if u r complaining about losing derpships to a fg run an armor repper on your ship..

it will save it from falling to the ground if u r fast enough.

should i also mention that damage mods r the problem when it comes to the forge guns?

maybe u r being shot down by a breach forge?.

as thats the only variant that can ohk mostly any vehicle..

the reg fg and assault forge gun r better vs infantry than vehicles.

if u r complaining about losing derpships to a fg run an armor repper on your ship..

it will save it from falling to the ground if u r fast enough.

well the dropships on this game are more like flying lavs any ways...

only if u wanted to kill some1 u had to land on them..

which wasnt hard to do before the lav bumper nerf.


and my adv unspecced into assault fg cant even ohk a viper.

the swarms are always the finishers..

the only problem with dropships is they cant support the team with gunfire when av is around in general.

but when they r completely ignored by the enemy team.

they become devastating killing machines.

well the dropships on this game are more like flying lavs any ways...

only if u wanted to kill some1 u had to land on them..

which wasnt hard to do before the lav bumper nerf.


and my adv unspecced into assault fg cant even ohk a viper.

the swarms are always the finishers..

the only problem with dropships is they cant support the team with gunfire when av is around in general.

but when they r completely ignored by the enemy team.

they become devastating killing machines.

the part of the assault fg u forget is that it cant hold the shot after its fully charged.

the only main reason to go to a high powered breach or a regular fg.

assault fg users r really the players that sit on top of a roof top killing every1 below them...

can get a pretty high kdr from doing it too..

until u start getting pinned by snipers...


the many times ive used my assault fg was on infantry.

id shoot at the occasional dropship that got to close or tried to touch down on my position but that was it.
after id run out of ammo id switch to smg and jump down into the battle below.

id just say its one of those guns that can actually hamper an enemy teams progress.


it might have the highest rate of fire of the other fgs.

but it takes more practice to be deadly with it as its all about timing your shots "CAREFULLY".

with a regular fg i could just hold the charge until i get a clear shot a pop some1 on the ground or accurately hit a dropship..

the assault version is just for spewing out as many rounds as possible.

it can actually assault a tank.
but id need a 5 round clip to take out some of the more powerful maddies.

its the only gun capable of working on the ground to.

and who would have thought that it works so great at killing players who want to run around with their proto logi suits with proto ars?

i dont think ccp intends to change dropships.

but a buff to damage resistance for it would be more effective in making av less annoying.

its not the hp that needs buffing its the damage resistance.

don't touch forge guns, that will hurt peoples feelings, just buff dropships.

START OFF WITH RETURNING THE CAMERA ANGLE TO WHAT IT WAS BEFORE YOU STARTED CHANGING IT!!!

It is honestly less work for you to just leave it alone, you created more work for yourselves that hurt us more. Now aiming is more difficult than ever because i have to aim through my dropship, and since i don't have stealth modules (I wish) i can't see through myself, i liked it better when the camera was above the dropship so you could see the entire ship, made it easier for shooting, aiming, and maneuvering.

Then apply all of your epic patch notes for vehicle update and bam done! (i hope)

1 is needed, I'd like to point out that assault weapon variants have higher ROF and lower damage.

Troll away, denial is expected.

I agree with you though maybe you should try starting a thread without automatically going on the defensive and pulling the woe is me everyone that disagrees with me is a troll crap.

No it doesn't it just makes you look like a mule headed fool, anyway I agree forge OP vs UP dropships especially after the changes to them in this recent patch, guristas assault forge 3 shotted my incubus before i even had time to bank and fly off last time i flew it.

It isnt proper to nerf a fg based on its effectiveness vs a dropship. After all dropships are not the only thing that a fg can shoot and should be effective against. If a FG was brought inline vs a drop ship then FG's would be crap vs tanks.
It would be just as flawed as nerfing a AR because it takes out scout suits too fast. Dropships are very much on the low end of the armor scale being considered light aircraft and not even medium (which is not yet in the game). Dropships are more in line with lav hps.

What all the DS pilots really should be doing is waiting for medium and heavy aircraft.

What you all really should be bugging ccp for is medium and heavy airframes.

I admire you're post, Thurak. (It's agreeing with mine, but LOL even if it wasn't in line with mine, I'd still admire it.)

Somewhere between our complaints and CCP's slow approaching return to "fundamentals" with vehicles, the Dropship is slowly (arguably "finally") being DEFINED.

It's an implied Transporter, for inserting or extracting mercs (meaning IN, can't stick around too long, then OUT)...
It's a LIGHT vehicle by classification, and pilots need to keep in perspective that "light" means it's never meant to take punishment from weaponry built to punch heavier targets than us...
And since the classification isn't likely to change, maybe we ought to be accepting it's defensive weaknesses as "sensible for its class", not request our enemy to be reduced just because of our adored DS, and close our book on the subject.

Well-centered perspective, Thurak. Thanks

I admire you're post, Thurak. (It's agreeing with mine, but LOL even if it wasn't in line with mine, I'd still admire it.)

Somewhere between our complaints and CCP's slow approa

a ADS hull costs 400k isk, so it should be strong

No because regardless of anyone's opinion the assault fg is a high ROF massive damage weapon rather than high ROF low damage weapon really doesn't take much practice to start ROFL stomping with it.

should i also mention that damage mods r the problem when it comes to the forge guns?

maybe u r being shot down by a breach forge?.

as thats the only variant that can ohk mostly any vehicle..

the reg fg and assault forge gun r better vs infantry than vehicles.

if u r complaining about losing derpships to a fg run an armor repper on your ship..

it will save it from falling to the ground if u r fast enough.

It isnt proper to nerf a fg based on its effectiveness vs a dropship. After all dropships are not the only thing that a fg can shoot and should be effective against. If a FG was brought inline vs a drop ship then FG's would be crap vs tanks.
It would be just as flawed as nerfing a AR because it takes out scout suits too fast. Dropships are very much on the low end of the armor scale being considered light aircraft and not even medium (which is not yet in the game). Dropships are more in line with lav hps.

What all the DS pilots really should be doing is waiting for medium and heavy aircraft. Being that the DS is a light aircraft i think expecting one to survive more than 2 shots from a FG even fully speced out is asking a lot since it is a light aircraft. Look at tanks for example. A well fitted tank can survive 5 or more FG shots (well at least assault FG) so nerfing the FG based on a light aircrafts hp's is improper. Buffing a DS i would even say is improper since they are light airframes.

What you all really should be bugging ccp for is medium and heavy airframes.

No, i'm sorry i don't think you are right. Assault FG is different from regular or breach forge gun, as i have been made to realize, i belive the assault varient is specialized for dropships and infantry since they can move out of your way faster, thus assault varient needs to be brought in line to what it's specialty is, fast moving targets.

And where the heck did you get the idea for heavy and medium air frames!!!! THERE IS NO CONFRIMED DATE ON THAT, we don't even know that heavy airframes exist, thats an EVE pilot for goodness sakes, plus if you are refering to Jets as medium frame, i don't think you know what you are talking about, a jet is lighter than a dropship, if anything Dropships are the MEDIUM frame and jets will be LIGHT frame.

So i think you are just mad that dropships will be harder to take down, and you don't want your easy points taken away. Well it's one thing if its a Derpship, its an entirely different matter when you are talking about 800k to 1 mill+ dropships that are used by actual pilots.

okay seriously when was a dropship ever classified as a LIGHT FRAME?!! i've looked around now, and i have never seen anything that has classified dropships as light frame. http://dust514.com/universe/vehicles/

CCP EVEN STATES UNDER THE DESCRIPTION OF THE DROPSHIP that it is meant to give temporary suppresive fire/cover fire.

Which it is not capable of doing, it is capable of going in and keep moving while everybody jumps out and hopes they land on target. Very rarely can you go in and actually land people, or get close to very accurately drop sombody off in a hotzone.

WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A DROPSHIP TEMPORARILY BLOCK OFF AN AREA WHILE SUPPORTING IT'S TROOPS!!!

point and case it is NOT a LIGHT FRAME ARIEL vehicle.

should i also mention that damage mods r the problem when it comes to the forge guns? No. Look at the Stats. From what I remember, the Assault deals one hundred more damage then the standard

maybe u r being shot down by a breach forge?. Killboard, Duh.

as thats the only variant that can ohk mostly any vehicle.. You obviously are either lying, or haven't flown a DS in a LONG LONG time

the reg fg and assault forge gun r better vs infantry than vehicles. Yes... And?

if u r complaining about losing derpships to a fg run an armor repper on your ship.. No, he's complaining about losing a Derpshit to both being able to not run away, and to having it shoot so damn quickly

it will save it from falling to the ground if u r fast enough. Ah huh.....

FG is fine as it is. Derpships however are just simply deathtraps. The combination of nerfed PG and that they where ignored when every other vehicles received a HP buff was just too much for them.

should i also mention that damage mods r the problem when it comes to the forge guns?

maybe u r being shot down by a breach forge?.

as thats the only variant that can ohk mostly any vehicle..

the reg fg and assault forge gun r better vs infantry than vehicles.

if u r complaining about losing derpships to a fg run an armor repper on your ship..

it will save it from falling to the ground if u r fast enough.

Actually as a DS pilot I noticed with this recent update that recovering from 0 armour is almost impossible without 2 reppers. Hell my Prometheus went down recently despite the fact it nearly had full health back with plenty of altitude to recover.
Plus bailing out is still a lottery whether you live or instantly die in mid air from exiting directly under the ship while its falling.

I stand by adding dispersion to forge guns. (see my post @ first page) This makes forge guns no less weaker to HAVs because they're massive targets, but dropships high in the sky and LAVs zooming along will be much harder to hit.

And also make dispersion a factor that changes depending on the variant.

Breach FG - Less dispersion (since penalties are pretty bad already)
Assault FG - More dispersion, but higher fire rate (even more than currently)

Haven't heard any reasonable arguments AGAINST FG dispersion yet, so I assume it's the perfect solution. Prove me wrong.

I'm a dedicated forge gunner and while I agree that the Assault FG needs to have it's damage a bit lower, I don't agree that it shouldn't destroy vehicles. That would be like me saying that heavies should get 80%+ damage resistance to all non-av weapons. It's not going to happen.

AV means anti-vehicle, not annoy-vehicle. I mean really, DS pilots only need to worry about HAV turrets, Installation Turrets, SWARMS, Forge and maybe small missile turrets on other DSs. And if a DS pilot is stressing over AV grenades, then he/she is doing something seriously wrong.

But with the proliferation of the forum warrior tears against anything that's effective against their playstyle, and CCP's apparent willingness to somewhat give in, I don't doubt that sometime, in the near future of heavy forge gunners, we'll end up immobile firing 1 shot every 8 seconds for a maximum of 625 damage per shot, no splash, with a magazine size of 2 and max ammo of 8, 1 meter dispersion per 10 meter range with no targeting reticle. And you whiners will still cry that we're op because we'll have to fit for max tank at around 1400 hp.

FG is fine as it is. Derpships however are just simply deathtraps. The combination of nerfed PG and that they where ignored when every other vehicles received a HP buff was just too much for them.

Some of you will disagree with me on this but lets face facts....
The FG is undeniably OP, I use a plasma Cannon i know what OP is
but the FG has a clip loaded with rounds more powerful than the PLC
can shoot further and faster while dealing more damage.

If an Infantry weapon can exceed the damage of a vehicle turret there is something wrong and I am pretty sure the
FG deals more dmg than a large railgun.... should a duvolle equal a scatterblaster???

anyway on to my solution ... The FG fires what appears to be a charge of electricity ,
not a highly volatile charge of plasma or a grenade via the mass driver so IMO
we need to remove splash dmg off the FG, its already to powerful AI/AV
so I dont think it deserves to be rewarded for shots that miss....

love or hate it , you know I'm making sense here

Who said it shouldn't destroy vehicles?

and the whole point of AV in a game where vehicles are so expensive is to repel, not destroy. This system encourages that greatly.

Once AV is established with that role, then we can introduce WP for repelling vehicles; for example, +5WP simply for landing a swarm/AV nade/forge gun shot on a vehicle.

yeah, it doesn't matter what happens here, if you get hit two times in a row by a forge gun your dead no matter what. well i don't know about shield, but for sure it is this way with armor dropships. once you reach 100 your entirely screwed no its ands or buts about it.

and thurak, how is a dropship both light, medium and heavy at the same time?!
also i don't think that wait screen means anything, because it has been there sooo long and has never changed, and assault dropships are much different than regular dropships because they are meant to be offensive, not a troop transport, it is obvious because they only have 4 seats. So no, the assault dropship is not meant to be a troop transport like a logi dropship, that is like an assault that can't attack, but it can be a good logi.

I'm a dedicated forge gunner and while I agree that the Assault FG needs to have it's damage a bit lower, I don't agree that it shouldn't destroy vehicles. That would be like me saying that heavies should get 80%+ damage resistance to all non-av weapons. It's not going to happen.

AV means anti-vehicle, not annoy-vehicle. I mean really, DS pilots only need to worry about HAV turrets, Installation Turrets, SWARMS, Forge and maybe small missile turrets on other DSs. And if a DS pilot is stressing over AV grenades, then he/she is doing something seriously wrong.

But with the proliferation of the forum warrior tears against anything that's effective against their playstyle, and CCP's apparent willingness to somewhat give in, I don't doubt that sometime, in the near future of heavy forge gunners, we'll end up immobile firing 1 shot every 8 seconds for a maximum of 625 damage per shot, no splash, with a magazine size of 2 and max ammo of 8, 1 meter dispersion per 10 meter range with no targeting reticle. And you whiners will still cry that we're op because we'll have to fit for max tank at around 1400 hp.

Not really needed.
the DS is not a heavy aircraft and the AFG doesn't hold a charge so people using one have to continually aim and re-adjust to hit a ds because as soon as its charged its shooting.
adding dispersion would be too much the AFG is a proto forge gun so yes it still will pack a punch when it hits. The AFG does similar damage to a proto swarm and has similar charge time as the swarms at its level have lock time. Course swarms have very little chance of missing especially if you dont see the person shooting them. At least with the AFG the weilder has to be a slow moving heavy and is likely to be out in the open the entire time they are shooting at you.

I never said it couldn't destroy vehicles. I never even mentioned a damage nerf; I requested dispersion. How'd you get "1 shot every 8 seconds for a maximum of 625 damage per shot, no splash, with a magazine size of 2 and max ammo of 8"?

Furthermore, I said make the targetting reticle smaller and hence MORE accurate.

If a vehicle user is greedy and sits in a spot without moving, you should be able to make short work of it. IF a pilot is using his head, actively moving around the battlefield and planning every move, then 1 forge gun user should NOT be able to take down the vehicle simply because at long range, the ONLY defence against AV like plasma cannons and swarms, DO NOT work on forge guns because of the projectile range and almost instantaneous travel time.

No. You said AV shouldn't destroy vehicles. I said it could use a little bit of a damage nerf, not much, just a touch.

As for the last paragraph you need to learn to comprehend satirical speculative writing. I was just saying that many of the vehicle pilot forum warriors apparently won't be happy until the heavy forge gunner is reduced to complete ineffectiveness then the infantry forum warriors will probably complain that the immobilized heavy is still OP due to their high HP.

People don't really care about speculation.

Range should be a forge gun's weakness. Currently it's quite difficult to aim with the box reticle at small targets.

What I suggest is not to limit the absolute range of forge gun projectiles, but add dispersion to the shots. Essentially, like the HMG, less shots are likely to hit the further your target is.

To accompany this change, the box reticle should be made 50% smaller! (Which is an accuracy buff following adding dispersion) and all shots have a chance of falling somewhere within that space. So if a HAV fills your whole reticle, you are guaranteed a hit. But a dropship at the flight ceiling will be much more difficult if not impossible to hit. However, we dropships aren't going to stay up there forever, and the whole point of AV in a game where vehicles are so expensive is to repel, not destroy. This system encourages that greatly.

As a pilot of dropships I fear forge guns currently. Swarms and their refire rate are nothing unless I stay close; In that regard they're serving their purpose as repellents, not destroyers.

Once AV is established with that role, then we can introduce WP for repelling vehicles; for example, +5WP simply for landing a swarm/AV nade/forge gun shot on a vehicle.

I never said it couldn't destroy vehicles. I never even mentioned a damage nerf; I requested dispersion. How'd you get "1 shot every 8 seconds for a maximum of 625 damage per shot, no splash, with a magazine size of 2 and max ammo of 8"?

Furthermore, I said make the targetting reticle smaller and hence MORE accurate.

If a vehicle user is greedy and sits in a spot without moving, you should be able to make short work of it. IF a pilot is using his head, actively moving around the battlefield and planning every move, then 1 forge gun user should NOT be able to take down the vehicle simply because at long range, the ONLY defence against AV like plasma cannons and swarms, DO NOT work on forge guns because of the projectile range and almost instantaneous travel time.



Prototype Swarm Launcher: 330 x 6 = 1980 explosive damage
Ishukone Assault Forge Gun: 1512 hybrid damage

So why is it that I've never seen a Wiyrkomi kill me in my dropship (50 mill worth of dropships lost so far), but I've always died to forge guns? Because whilst swarms have very little chance of missing, they can be avoided in fast, light vehicles with speed. In games where only swarms are hitting me I can come back after repairs and continue assaulting a point, because as I'm escaping swarms can't continually damage me during my retreat. But forge guns can. It takes roughly 3 Ishukone AFG hits to eliminate my dropship. 2.5 seconds is the base charge time, with FG operation V it's 1.9s roughly.

So in 6 seconds, those 3 shots are in the air. Given I don't realise the first one is charging, I have 4 seconds to react between the time it takes for the first hit to land and the third hit to land. I spend 1 second deciding which direction to take based on where the forge gun hits me, but the second shot is on its way before I realign myself. By the time I start moving the third finishes me off unless the forge gunner has horrendous accuracy.

I'm not saying remove how fast it fires, nor remove its insane damage. If you've read my previous posts I suggested INCREASING the fire rate, and my first post involves DECREASING size of the aiming reticle. Besides dispersion it's all buffs. I don't see why you guys are so afraid of dispersion. Our turrets (even HAVs) are effective inside 200m. Outside of that, the damage dealt is laughable even to infantry, unless it's a railgun/missile tank.

So why is it that forge guns are so effective beyond the effective range of our vehicles? That's what I'm irked about. And I'm saying that outside of 200m the dispersion of forge guns should mean at least half the shots are NOT centered, WHICH DOES NOT MEAN IT MISSES. It can still hit if the target takes up enough of the reticle!

So, besides completely exaggerating what I suggested, any other reasons why FGs should not have dispersion?

no don't nerf forge gun just add heat build up on all forge guns .

should i also mention that damage mods r the problem when it comes to the forge guns?

maybe u r being shot down by a breach forge?.

as thats the only variant that can ohk mostly any vehicle..

the reg fg and assault forge gun r better vs infantry than vehicles.

if u r complaining about losing derpships to a fg run an armor repper on your ship..

it will save it from falling to the ground if u r fast enough.

i have only died to a breach in a drop ship but in a tank its always the proto assault i think they should fire 2 shots 1 after another then over heat for like 10 secs or something because to fire 4 shots at you under 10secs is ridiculous how is any vehicle gonna survive that well i mean how is any vehicle that isn't properly fitted gonna tank it and now that they are changing the high and low slots on tanks it is soon going to be impossible to tank much the way i see it if you've put 13mil Sp into vehicles like i have and to be taken down by 1 guy its sucks tbh.