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TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
714
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 16:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
1 is needed, I'd like to point out that assault weapon variants have higher ROF and lower damage.
Troll away, denial is expected. |
CLONE117
Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore
405
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 16:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
should i also mention that damage mods r the problem when it comes to the forge guns?
maybe u r being shot down by a breach forge?.
as thats the only variant that can ohk mostly any vehicle..
the reg fg and assault forge gun r better vs infantry than vehicles.
if u r complaining about losing derpships to a fg run an armor repper on your ship..
it will save it from falling to the ground if u r fast enough.
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Powerh8er
Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men.
121
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 17:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
Give me a bayonet or master-key fitted to my forgegun then, and its ok. |
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
714
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 17:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote:should i also mention that damage mods r the problem when it comes to the forge guns?
maybe u r being shot down by a breach forge?.
as thats the only variant that can ohk mostly any vehicle..
the reg fg and assault forge gun r better vs infantry than vehicles.
if u r complaining about losing derpships to a fg run an armor repper on your ship..
it will save it from falling to the ground if u r fast enough.
Its always assault, don't give me that rubbish.
Thank you. |
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
714
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 17:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:1 is needed, I'd like to point out that assault weapon variants have higher ROF and lower damage.
Troll away, denial is expected.
This still remains, unbias, needs fixing.
Troll away, denial, crutch protection and bull sht is expected Lol |
843 nerfnut96
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
79
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 17:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
DO BOTH!!! Just saying. |
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
714
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 17:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote:should i also mention that damage mods r the problem when it comes to the forge guns?
maybe u r being shot down by a breach forge?.
as thats the only variant that can ohk mostly any vehicle..
the reg fg and assault forge gun r better vs infantry than vehicles.
if u r complaining about losing derpships to a fg run an armor repper on your ship..
it will save it from falling to the ground if u r fast enough.
You may as well have put derp a derp because what you put there is completely beside the point Lol |
Broonfondle Majikthies
Bannana Boat Corp
318
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 17:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote:should i also mention that damage mods r the problem when it comes to the forge guns?
maybe u r being shot down by a breach forge?.
as thats the only variant that can ohk mostly any vehicle..
the reg fg and assault forge gun r better vs infantry than vehicles.
if u r complaining about losing derpships to a fg run an armor repper on your ship..
it will save it from falling to the ground if u r fast enough.
Actually as a DS pilot I noticed with this recent update that recovering from 0 armour is almost impossible without 2 reppers. Hell my Prometheus went down recently despite the fact it nearly had full health back with plenty of altitude to recover. Plus bailing out is still a lottery whether you live or instantly die in mid air from exiting directly under the ship while its falling. |
CLONE117
Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore
405
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 17:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
well the dropships on this game are more like flying lavs any ways...
only if u wanted to kill some1 u had to land on them..
which wasnt hard to do before the lav bumper nerf.
and my adv unspecced into assault fg cant even ohk a viper.
the swarms are always the finishers..
the only problem with dropships is they cant support the team with gunfire when av is around in general.
but when they r completely ignored by the enemy team.
they become devastating killing machines. |
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
714
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 17:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote:well the dropships on this game are more like flying lavs any ways...
only if u wanted to kill some1 u had to land on them..
which wasnt hard to do before the lav bumper nerf.
and my adv unspecced into assault fg cant even ohk a viper.
the swarms are always the finishers..
the only problem with dropships is they cant support the team with gunfire when av is around in general.
but when they r completely ignored by the enemy team.
they become devastating killing machines.
The point still stands that the assault fg either needs re naming to beast fg or needs a nerf so its in line with other assault variants, or buff drop ship. |
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TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
714
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 17:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
Bump, any blue tag on anything for re assurance would be nice. |
CLONE117
Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore
405
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 17:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
the part of the assault fg u forget is that it cant hold the shot after its fully charged.
the only main reason to go to a high powered breach or a regular fg.
assault fg users r really the players that sit on top of a roof top killing every1 below them...
can get a pretty high kdr from doing it too..
until u start getting pinned by snipers...
the many times ive used my assault fg was on infantry.
id shoot at the occasional dropship that got to close or tried to touch down on my position but that was it. after id run out of ammo id switch to smg and jump down into the battle below.
id just say its one of those guns that can actually hamper an enemy teams progress.
it might have the highest rate of fire of the other fgs.
but it takes more practice to be deadly with it as its all about timing your shots "CAREFULLY".
with a regular fg i could just hold the charge until i get a clear shot a pop some1 on the ground or accurately hit a dropship..
the assault version is just for spewing out as many rounds as possible.
it can actually assault a tank. but id need a 5 round clip to take out some of the more powerful maddies.
its the only gun capable of working on the ground to.
and who would have thought that it works so great at killing players who want to run around with their proto logi suits with proto ars?
i dont think ccp intends to change dropships.
but a buff to damage resistance for it would be more effective in making av less annoying.
its not the hp that needs buffing its the damage resistance. |
Broonfondle Majikthies
Bannana Boat Corp
318
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 17:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote:well the dropships on this game are more like flying lavs any ways...
only if u wanted to kill some1 u had to land on them..
which wasnt hard to do before the lav bumper nerf.
and my adv unspecced into assault fg cant even ohk a viper.
the swarms are always the finishers..
the only problem with dropships is they cant support the team with gunfire when av is around in general.
but when they r completely ignored by the enemy team.
they become devastating killing machines. I hear what your saying and I understand your arguments, but from our perspective we have far more problems fundamental to the game before even mentioning damage and range.
First consider how you find us as a target - For you Its easy, there is what I call the 'tuvan throat singing' sound of the DS the moment we're inside. If you loose sight of us we're completely unmissable on the tac map - so if you die you can spawn in the perfect place (uplinks permitting) to bring us down.
For us your at best a blue blob (charging) that we can barely see even when your 50m away and facing the same direction. It's not noticeable enough. Then there is the rendering -You can either be seen by us to be anywhere up to 30m away from where you 'actually' are, or you don't render at all. So how can we be expected to counter you? And don't get me started on swarms (invisible, bend 90-¦ round corners, follow you home and crash on your couch ect.)
And to your counter argument that DS's are devastating when left alone. That is down to pure skill as everything is against us. DS - every move we make is counter to the gunner's ability to aim, we must be totally still (as in a perfect target for a fg to hit us?) and HE gets the credit for the kill, not us. Blasters don't have the range and rails are useless.
ADS - Hell after all this time we're still firing through our ships totally blind, only now the DS takes up more space on screen and the turrets are slower to react. |
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
1471
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 19:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Range should be a forge gun's weakness. Currently it's quite difficult to aim with the box reticle at small targets.
What I suggest is not to limit the absolute range of forge gun projectiles, but add dispersion to the shots. Essentially, like the HMG, less shots are likely to hit the further your target is.
To accompany this change, the box reticle should be made 50% smaller! (Which is an accuracy buff following adding dispersion) and all shots have a chance of falling somewhere within that space. So if a HAV fills your whole reticle, you are guaranteed a hit. But a dropship at the flight ceiling will be much more difficult if not impossible to hit. However, we dropships aren't going to stay up there forever, and the whole point of AV in a game where vehicles are so expensive is to repel, not destroy. This system encourages that greatly.
As a pilot of dropships I fear forge guns currently. Swarms and their refire rate are nothing unless I stay close; In that regard they're serving their purpose as repellents, not destroyers.
Once AV is established with that role, then we can introduce WP for repelling vehicles; for example, +5WP simply for landing a swarm/AV nade/forge gun shot on a vehicle. |
Keri Starlight
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
825
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 19:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
2nd option for me
Hate will be ignored, guys, don't bother... |
CELESTA AUNGM
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
23
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 19:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote:the part of the assault fg u forget is that it cant hold the shot after its fully charged.
the only main reason to go to a high powered breach or a regular fg.
assault fg users r really the players that sit on top of a roof top killing every1 below them...
can get a pretty high kdr from doing it too..
until u start getting pinned by snipers...
the many times ive used my assault fg was on infantry.
id shoot at the occasional dropship that got to close or tried to touch down on my position but that was it. after id run out of ammo id switch to smg and jump down into the battle below.
id just say its one of those guns that can actually hamper an enemy teams progress.
it might have the highest rate of fire of the other fgs.
but it takes more practice to be deadly with it as its all about timing your shots "CAREFULLY".
with a regular fg i could just hold the charge until i get a clear shot a pop some1 on the ground or accurately hit a dropship..
the assault version is just for spewing out as many rounds as possible.
it can actually assault a tank. but id need a 5 round clip to take out some of the more powerful maddies.
its the only gun capable of working on the ground to.
and who would have thought that it works so great at killing players who want to run around with their proto logi suits with proto ars?
i dont think ccp intends to change dropships.
but a buff to damage resistance for it would be more effective in making av less annoying.
its not the hp that needs buffing its the damage resistance.
Salutations Clone 117: Nice to hear from a forge gun specialist from time to time. From what I studied on the Beta and early release forums, we DS drivers considered the Forge Gun (and later the Installation-Railgun) the only true predator to pray you don't get hit by:
**Swarm missile carriers and HAV rails were considered an "adversary", as in someone you could risk your time and fence with until either DS or FG was too depleted or too bloodied or met the devil.
***But when it comes to the FG, the oldest vets actually did the math to calculate the EHP of a fully skilled-up, fully proto'ed with damage mod Forge Gun per single shot---then fitted their modules and skill-levels in a scheme to survive the second shot long enough to make it back to a friendly zone--they warned that the FG was too potent to treat as a fencing adversary, and you really need to just get out of Dodge. Pilots measured themselve on how well they could survive 2 forge hits!
The extra respect we have for FGs above swarmers, missile batteries, etc, is still somewhat the same, and it may just be because I'm too much of a novice to think straight, but I kinda like a weapon of that threat level being around. I am not in a hurry to have the FG versus DS threat ratio altered...
I won't go into ALL the stuff I've learned from the vet advice so far, but I will confirm that, with time and grind, the RIGHT skill-levels you build are what make your modules finally reliable (my weakest armour repper WILL restore the plates from zero to max in one use, and I've ridden with some drivers who got the DS sheilds alone buffed to nearly 5000 HP--these things are only possible with certain skills maxed).
A--The DS right out of the marketplace should NEVER be flown into fire zones---in the coming patches, CCP is going to make that advice even more true. B-- Well-chosen modules freshly-unlocked by the minimal SP level-upgrade should NOT be expected to protect your DS when you want to boldly fly the "please shoot at me" route or extend "transport" work into "assault/support" loitering. C-- Well-chosen modules AUGMENTED by the full grind of the right skill groups (PLUS clever flying) will allow you to thumb your nose at most "adversary" weapons, but still will leave one or two solitary "predator" weapons as the DS's weakness across the map.
A, B, & C are progressive (like it or not, the devs WANT you to have to mature your vehicle this way), and even after 'C', there will still be a deliberate weakness or nemesis to prevent your gauranteed invincibility. That's what I accept as the expensi--- err, I mean "fun" challenge of building to be a good DS driver.
In his post Clone117 has enlightened me that the Forge Gun grind is no cake-walk either. I'm glad it is difficult to get the hang of, that charging is a tricky burden, and not any ole' version of FG they're buying from Walmart is capable of cutting my DS's throat so easily. THAT represents the FG's weakness across the map, so I can consider Clone117 as a fairly-armed enemy and wish us both luck on the map. Respect to ya, Cone117.
I also suspect he's right that CCP won't be "muscling up" dropships in the future---they're expecting us to do that ourselves with paper, pencil & calculator. We each have to scribble down ways we can tinker up our DS, calculate what the max damage the predator can inflict, scibble down some more and so on... THAT'S our only nerfing-n-rebalancing process, like the Beta vets apparently did it. |
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
715
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 20:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
I am a beta vet, across 3 chars I can use and do anything, the fact remains that it's not in line with assault variants and concerning not holding a charged shot. By the time you get the assault forge it's no problem.
I base this on competent players, not noobs who still find it challenging after all that practice.
It's not in line with other weapon assault variants. |
Arc-08
Horizons' Edge Orion Empire
113
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 20:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
don't touch forge guns, that will hurt peoples feelings, just buff dropships.
START OFF WITH RETURNING THE CAMERA ANGLE TO WHAT IT WAS BEFORE YOU STARTED CHANGING IT!!!
It is honestly less work for you to just leave it alone, you created more work for yourselves that hurt us more. Now aiming is more difficult than ever because i have to aim through my dropship, and since i don't have stealth modules (I wish) i can't see through myself, i liked it better when the camera was above the dropship so you could see the entire ship, made it easier for shooting, aiming, and maneuvering.
Then apply all of your epic patch notes for vehicle update and bam done! (i hope) |
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
715
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 20:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
Arc-08 wrote:don't touch forge guns, that will hurt peoples feelings, just buff dropships.
START OFF WITH RETURNING THE CAMERA ANGLE TO WHAT IT WAS BEFORE YOU STARTED CHANGING IT!!!
It is honestly less work for you to just leave it alone, you created more work for yourselves that hurt us more. Now aiming is more difficult than ever because i have to aim through my dropship, and since i don't have stealth modules (I wish) i can't see through myself, i liked it better when the camera was above the dropship so you could see the entire ship, made it easier for shooting, aiming, and maneuvering.
Then apply all of your epic patch notes for vehicle update and bam done! (i hope)
I don't know how many times I need to make this clear,assault fg is not in line with other assault variants, id agree buffing derpships but the assault fg not a high rof lower damage weapon it should be, it's a higher rof massive damage weapon.
It's un bias, there's no if or but about it, it's not working as intended. |
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
715
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 20:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
Im using my phone AMD the touchpad is tiny lol |
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TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
729
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 21:13:00 -
[21] - Quote
Bump |
Thurak1
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
298
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 21:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
It isnt proper to nerf a fg based on its effectiveness vs a dropship. After all dropships are not the only thing that a fg can shoot and should be effective against. If a FG was brought inline vs a drop ship then FG's would be crap vs tanks. It would be just as flawed as nerfing a AR because it takes out scout suits too fast. Dropships are very much on the low end of the armor scale being considered light aircraft and not even medium (which is not yet in the game). Dropships are more in line with lav hps.
What all the DS pilots really should be doing is waiting for medium and heavy aircraft. Being that the DS is a light aircraft i think expecting one to survive more than 2 shots from a FG even fully speced out is asking a lot since it is a light aircraft. Look at tanks for example. A well fitted tank can survive 5 or more FG shots (well at least assault FG) so nerfing the FG based on a light aircrafts hp's is improper. Buffing a DS i would even say is improper since they are light airframes.
What you all really should be bugging ccp for is medium and heavy airframes. |
Beld Errmon
Evocatius
1006
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 21:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:1 is needed, I'd like to point out that assault weapon variants have higher ROF and lower damage.
Troll away, denial is expected.
I agree with you though maybe you should try starting a thread without automatically going on the defensive and pulling the woe is me everyone that disagrees with me is a troll crap.
|
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
729
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 21:39:00 -
[24] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:1 is needed, I'd like to point out that assault weapon variants have higher ROF and lower damage.
Troll away, denial is expected. I agree with you though maybe you should try starting a thread without automatically going on the defensive and pulling the woe is me everyone that disagrees with me is a troll crap.
It deters them, there is no woe is me crap lol |
Beld Errmon
Evocatius
1008
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 21:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
No it doesn't it just makes you look like a mule headed fool, anyway I agree forge OP vs UP dropships especially after the changes to them in this recent patch, guristas assault forge 3 shotted my incubus before i even had time to bank and fly off last time i flew it. |
Xender17
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
769
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 21:44:00 -
[26] - Quote
The assault forge gun lessens the damage by around 7-10% but reduces the charge time by 33.333*% I don't see any draw back that matters. |
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
729
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 21:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:No it doesn't it just makes you look like a mule headed fool, anyway I agree forge OP vs UP dropships especially after the changes to them in this recent patch, guristas assault forge 3 shotted my incubus before i even had time to bank and fly off last time i flew it.
Well your the closest this threads had to trolls right?
Thanks for your input though lol |
CELESTA AUNGM
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
23
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:37:00 -
[28] - Quote
Thurak1 wrote:It isnt proper to nerf a fg based on its effectiveness vs a dropship. After all dropships are not the only thing that a fg can shoot and should be effective against. If a FG was brought inline vs a drop ship then FG's would be crap vs tanks. It would be just as flawed as nerfing a AR because it takes out scout suits too fast. Dropships are very much on the low end of the armor scale being considered light aircraft and not even medium (which is not yet in the game). Dropships are more in line with lav hps.
What all the DS pilots really should be doing is waiting for medium and heavy aircraft.
What you all really should be bugging ccp for is medium and heavy airframes.
I admire you're post, Thurak. (It's agreeing with mine, but LOL even if it wasn't in line with mine, I'd still admire it.)
Somewhere between our complaints and CCP's slow approaching return to "fundamentals" with vehicles, the Dropship is slowly (arguably "finally") being DEFINED.
It's an implied Transporter, for inserting or extracting mercs (meaning IN, can't stick around too long, then OUT)... It's a LIGHT vehicle by classification, and pilots need to keep in perspective that "light" means it's never meant to take punishment from weaponry built to punch heavier targets than us... And since the classification isn't likely to change, maybe we ought to be accepting it's defensive weaknesses as "sensible for its class", not request our enemy to be reduced just because of our adored DS, and close our book on the subject.
Well-centered perspective, Thurak. Thanks |
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
767
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
CELESTA AUNGM wrote:Thurak1 wrote:It isnt proper to nerf a fg based on its effectiveness vs a dropship. After all dropships are not the only thing that a fg can shoot and should be effective against. If a FG was brought inline vs a drop ship then FG's would be crap vs tanks. It would be just as flawed as nerfing a AR because it takes out scout suits too fast. Dropships are very much on the low end of the armor scale being considered light aircraft and not even medium (which is not yet in the game). Dropships are more in line with lav hps.
What all the DS pilots really should be doing is waiting for medium and heavy aircraft.
What you all really should be bugging ccp for is medium and heavy airframes. I admire you're post, Thurak. (It's agreeing with mine, but LOL even if it wasn't in line with mine, I'd still admire it.) Somewhere between our complaints and CCP's slow approaching return to "fundamentals" with vehicles, the Dropship is slowly (arguably "finally") being DEFINED. It's an implied Transporter, for inserting or extracting mercs (meaning IN, can't stick around too long, then OUT)... It's a LIGHT vehicle by classification, and pilots need to keep in perspective that "light" means it's never meant to take punishment from weaponry built to punch heavier targets than us... And since the classification isn't likely to change, maybe we ought to be accepting it's defensive weaknesses as "sensible for its class", not request our enemy to be reduced just because of our adored DS, and close our book on the subject. Well-centered perspective, Thurak. Thanks
No because regardless of anyone's opinion the assault fg is a high ROF massive damage weapon rather than high ROF low damage weapon really doesn't take much practice to start ROFL stomping with it. |
jerrmy12 kahoalii
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
70
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:20:00 -
[30] - Quote
CELESTA AUNGM wrote:Thurak1 wrote:It isnt proper to nerf a fg based on its effectiveness vs a dropship. After all dropships are not the only thing that a fg can shoot and should be effective against. If a FG was brought inline vs a drop ship then FG's would be crap vs tanks. It would be just as flawed as nerfing a AR because it takes out scout suits too fast. Dropships are very much on the low end of the armor scale being considered light aircraft and not even medium (which is not yet in the game). Dropships are more in line with lav hps.
What all the DS pilots really should be doing is waiting for medium and heavy aircraft.
What you all really should be bugging ccp for is medium and heavy airframes. I admire you're post, Thurak. (It's agreeing with mine, but LOL even if it wasn't in line with mine, I'd still admire it.) Somewhere between our complaints and CCP's slow approa a ADS hull costs 400k isk, so it should be strong |
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