DUST Search - Buff derpships or nerf assault forge gun.

Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:

I'm a dedicated forge gunner and while I agree that the Assault FG needs to have it's damage a bit lower, I don't agree that it shouldn't destroy vehicles. That would be like me saying that heavies should get 80%+ damage resistance to all non-av weapons. It's not going to happen.

AV means anti-vehicle, not annoy-vehicle. I mean really, DS pilots only need to worry about HAV turrets, Installation Turrets, SWARMS, Forge and maybe small missile turrets on other DSs. And if a DS pilot is stressing over AV grenades, then he/she is doing something seriously wrong.

But with the proliferation of the forum warrior tears against anything that's effective against their playstyle, and CCP's apparent willingness to somewhat give in, I don't doubt that sometime, in the near future of heavy forge gunners, we'll end up immobile firing 1 shot every 8 seconds for a maximum of 625 damage per shot, no splash, with a magazine size of 2 and max ammo of 8, 1 meter dispersion per 10 meter range with no targeting reticle. And you whiners will still cry that we're op because we'll have to fit for max tank at around 1400 hp.

Thurak1 wrote:

Not really needed.
the DS is not a heavy aircraft and the AFG doesn't hold a charge so people using one have to continually aim and re-adjust to hit a ds because as soon as its charged its shooting.
adding dispersion would be too much the AFG is a proto forge gun so yes it still will pack a punch when it hits. The AFG does similar damage to a proto swarm and has similar charge time as the swarms at its level have lock time. Course swarms have very little chance of missing especially if you dont see the person shooting them. At least with the AFG the weilder has to be a slow moving heavy and is likely to be out in the open the entire time they are shooting at you.


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Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1471	Posted - 2013.10.14 19:24:00 - [1] - Quote Range should be a forge gun's weakness. Currently it's quite difficult to aim with the box reticle at small targets. What I suggest is not to limit the absolute range of forge gun projectiles, but add dispersion to the shots. Essentially, like the HMG, less shots are likely to hit the further your target is. To accompany this change, the box reticle should be made 50% smaller! (Which is an accuracy buff following adding dispersion) and all shots have a chance of falling somewhere within that space. So if a HAV fills your whole reticle, you are guaranteed a hit. But a dropship at the flight ceiling will be much more difficult if not impossible to hit. However, we dropships aren't going to stay up there forever, and the whole point of AV in a game where vehicles are so expensive is to repel, not destroy. This system encourages that greatly. As a pilot of dropships I fear forge guns currently. Swarms and their refire rate are nothing unless I stay close; In that regard they're serving their purpose as repellents, not destroyers. Once AV is established with that role, then we can introduce WP for repelling vehicles; for example, +5WP simply for landing a swarm/AV nade/forge gun shot on a vehicle.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1482	Posted - 2013.10.16 11:46:00 - [2] - Quote I stand by adding dispersion to forge guns. (see my post @ first page) This makes forge guns no less weaker to HAVs because they're massive targets, but dropships high in the sky and LAVs zooming along will be much harder to hit. And also make dispersion a factor that changes depending on the variant. Breach FG - Less dispersion (since penalties are pretty bad already) Assault FG - More dispersion, but higher fire rate (even more than currently) Haven't heard any reasonable arguments AGAINST FG dispersion yet, so I assume it's the perfect solution. Prove me wrong.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1490	Posted - 2013.10.17 11:35:00 - [3] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: I'm a dedicated forge gunner and while I agree that the Assault FG needs to have it's damage a bit lower, I don't agree that it shouldn't destroy vehicles. That would be like me saying that heavies should get 80%+ damage resistance to all non-av weapons. It's not going to happen. AV means anti-vehicle, not annoy-vehicle. I mean really, DS pilots only need to worry about HAV turrets, Installation Turrets, SWARMS, Forge and maybe small missile turrets on other DSs. And if a DS pilot is stressing over AV grenades, then he/she is doing something seriously wrong. But with the proliferation of the forum warrior tears against anything that's effective against their playstyle, and CCP's apparent willingness to somewhat give in, I don't doubt that sometime, in the near future of heavy forge gunners, we'll end up immobile firing 1 shot every 8 seconds for a maximum of 625 damage per shot, no splash, with a magazine size of 2 and max ammo of 8, 1 meter dispersion per 10 meter range with no targeting reticle. And you whiners will still cry that we're op because we'll have to fit for max tank at around 1400 hp. I never said it couldn't destroy vehicles. I never even mentioned a damage nerf; I requested dispersion. How'd you get "1 shot every 8 seconds for a maximum of 625 damage per shot, no splash, with a magazine size of 2 and max ammo of 8"? Furthermore, I said make the targetting reticle smaller and hence MORE accurate. If a vehicle user is greedy and sits in a spot without moving, you should be able to make short work of it. IF a pilot is using his head, actively moving around the battlefield and planning every move, then 1 forge gun user should NOT be able to take down the vehicle simply because at long range, the ONLY defence against AV like plasma cannons and swarms, DO NOT work on forge guns because of the projectile range and almost instantaneous travel time. Thurak1 wrote: Not really needed. the DS is not a heavy aircraft and the AFG doesn't hold a charge so people using one have to continually aim and re-adjust to hit a ds because as soon as its charged its shooting. adding dispersion would be too much the AFG is a proto forge gun so yes it still will pack a punch when it hits. The AFG does similar damage to a proto swarm and has similar charge time as the swarms at its level have lock time. Course swarms have very little chance of missing especially if you dont see the person shooting them. At least with the AFG the weilder has to be a slow moving heavy and is likely to be out in the open the entire time they are shooting at you. Prototype Swarm Launcher: 330 x 6 = 1980 explosive damage Ishukone Assault Forge Gun: 1512 hybrid damage So why is it that I've never seen a Wiyrkomi kill me in my dropship (50 mill worth of dropships lost so far), but I've always died to forge guns? Because whilst swarms have very little chance of missing, they can be avoided in fast, light vehicles with speed. In games where only swarms are hitting me I can come back after repairs and continue assaulting a point, because as I'm escaping swarms can't continually damage me during my retreat. But forge guns can. It takes roughly 3 Ishukone AFG hits to eliminate my dropship. 2.5 seconds is the base charge time, with FG operation V it's 1.9s roughly. So in 6 seconds, those 3 shots are in the air. Given I don't realise the first one is charging, I have 4 seconds to react between the time it takes for the first hit to land and the third hit to land. I spend 1 second deciding which direction to take based on where the forge gun hits me, but the second shot is on its way before I realign myself. By the time I start moving the third finishes me off unless the forge gunner has horrendous accuracy. I'm not saying remove how fast it fires, nor remove its insane damage. If you've read my previous posts I suggested INCREASING the fire rate, and my first post involves DECREASING size of the aiming reticle. Besides dispersion it's all buffs. I don't see why you guys are so afraid of dispersion. Our turrets (even HAVs) are effective inside 200m. Outside of that, the damage dealt is laughable even to infantry, unless it's a railgun/missile tank. So why is it that forge guns are so effective beyond the effective range of our vehicles? That's what I'm irked about. And I'm saying that outside of 200m the dispersion of forge guns should mean at least half the shots are NOT centered, WHICH DOES NOT MEAN IT MISSES. It can still hit if the target takes up enough of the reticle! So, besides completely exaggerating what I suggested, any other reasons why FGs should not have dispersion?