The auto scrambler being at a high SP level is a big part of its limited use. I'd have to log in and check, but I think it's also more expensive than a GEK as well. Combine this with a lot of people running only logi suits, it means that they have to always use the high end weapon in the line or be helpless up close. I skilled it up on an alt and it hits fairly accurately at a surprisingly long range, despite the scatter.

Yup. Another AR balancing post. This is my view on how we can balance it.

I've been an AR user since I've first started playing in January. From my experience as an AR user, I put together a document that would make this weapon more of a 'jack-of-all-trades' weapon. I'm not necessarily proposing to nerf or buff it. Simply balancing it.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UDin3aJhrQ2dg_oTzbMfoDlQ9H542of48Twk-NG_9Xw/edit?usp=sharing

Do note, I've not done any variants or tiers of this weapon. Just the plain Assault Rifle. I'll do tiers and variants later.

I hope you enjoy! Feedback is always welcomed.

+1 for the data. Once again, you were very thorough.

Anyways, I disagree on what you should do for the Breach AR.

IMHO A Breach weapon is designed to do one thing: Kill whoever is in front of you FAST. Think about breaching a door with one person on the other side. You don't want to ruin the element of surprise by drawing out the gunfight. You want him dead before he can react.

How is that achieved? High Damage, High ROF.

"But Ghost, that's SO OP"

Right now, yeah, but that's whats balancing is for.

If you want a High DPS weapon for CQC, you need to make sure that it doesn't become deadly at range or be able to mow through a horde of people with one clip. Breach weapons are made to take on a single target (OR two) in a clip. Due to the huge damage and high ROF, it should have terrible accuracy. Why? Cause you don't need accuracy at point blank. You are just trying to kill one or two people, and then reload and move up or run away .

So, I propose that all Breach weapons follow this Stat Trend:

Breach "INSERT WEAPON HERE"
Damage: HIGH
ROF: HIGH
Accuracy: MID-LOW
Range: VERY SHORT
Clip Size: LOW

***EDIT***
As a side note, I wanna see who agree's with me on this.

Right now, the standard AR has a HIGHER hipfire accuracy than an SMG.

In what world would an AR be easier to handle full auto over an SMG from the hip. Makes no sense. And that is what is probably leading to the CQC Spray and Pray from AR users. And why they beat SMG's silly in point blank CQC

I agree with everything you've said but the clip size of 225 is the only thing I'm wary of. A 3% (if memory serves) ammo increase on that is only 6 bullets per freaking skill level. That's just stupid. It would have to be changed to lets say 15 rounds per skill level, at level 5 that would be 75 coming to a nice round 300 rounds. :)

I hate running out of ammo, but I hate running out of ammo with an AR the most. I run out of ammo the most with it. I would prefer it not be reduced but I don't know what 225 would feel like right now.

Quick thing, I'd recommend adding just the new weapon stats to the OP. That way they can be quickly and easily referenced, without needing to look through your longer document.

Edit: Looking at the TAR, I'm afraid that the damage may be a bit too high. I understand that it's doing the same damage per clip as your proposed AR, but I think you might have underestimated the advantage of raw damage over clip size here. I mean, I know you said you weren't a fan of using DPS to help calculate this variant's stats, but skilled players are going to get good enough with it to fire many shots quickly and accurately, and right now it would dish out a whopping 700 dps. I'd strongly recommend lowering the damage.

While I'm on that subject, how exactly do you decide on what damage/clip size to start off with? I understand (and 100% agree with) your notion of making sure all the variants do the same damage per clip, but where do the starting numbers come from? Do you just pick what seems right for damage and balance the rest from there? Just something I was curious about.

Lastly, I think there's something you don't quite get about the point of these rifles and their variants. As has been stated by CCP here, the overall idea for the finished product is that each race has their main assault rifle, made with that race's signature technology and specific firing mechanics, and then the three variants are attempts to mimic the other races' assault rifles with their own tech. So it goes:

Amarr- Scrambler Rifle [Laser]; Tactical
Caldari- Rail Rifle [Railgun]; Breach (man that really does need a better name...)
Gallente- Plasma Rifle [Plasma]; Assault
Minmatar- Combat Rifle [Projectile]; Burst

So it just doesn't really make sense to say there shouldn't be a tactical variant for the Gallente rifle just because it's typically a short range weapon. Think of it this way, it may shoot farther than the normal base assault variant of the weapon, but it should still never shoot farther than the Amarr's base scrambler rifle.

Edit 2: Found the post I was talking about.

No.

Just did the DPS math on them, and 490 DPS with the same accuracy as now is the definition of OP.

It shouldn't be this accurate even with the current DPS, and this new stats is 65 DPS faster at killing.

Bump recoil and nerf accuracy moderately and keep damage stats.

If it is necessary, reduce clip size.

Done.

The auto scrambler being at a high SP level is a big part of its limited use. I'd have to log in and check, but I think it's also more expensive than a GEK as well. Combine this with a lot of people running only logi suits, it means that they have to always use the high end weapon in the line or be helpless up close. I skilled it up on an alt and it hits fairly accurately at a surprisingly long range, despite the scatter.

His proposed stats nerfed accuracy, recoil, clip size, reload time, and range. So....

It says NOTHING about range.

Or Recoil.

The Change to reload is Negligible, a fourth a second

And, all it does is make this new clip size is STILL a negligible difference considering that the AR now kills 15 percent faster!

It wont NEED the clip size with the TTK!

It still can Kill even the biggest brick a heavy can be with ONE clip.

This, isn't what is needed.

The AR needs a Clip size drop, a accuracy nerf, and a range change, nothing more.

This is an overly complicated proposal, compared to the one we have known NEEDED to be put in for a long time!

It says NOTHING about range.

Or Recoil.

The Change to reload is Negligible, a fourth a second

And, all it does is make this new clip size is STILL a negligible difference considering that the AR now kills 15 percent faster!

It wont NEED the clip size with the TTK!

It still can Kill even the biggest brick a heavy can be with ONE clip.

This, isn't what is needed.

The AR needs a Clip size drop, a accuracy nerf, and a range change, nothing more.

This is an overly complicated proposal, compared to the one we have known NEEDED to be put in for a long time!

Uh, maybe go read it again...?

Although that does bring up a point Syn; some of your stats in the OP need their ranges added. And I'd suggest maybe also putting in a sentence or two about making sure the AR's recoil isn't immediately reset by not firing for an instant.

Honestly, I still feel like the TAR is doing a little too much damage. Let's not forget that right now, unfortunately, modded controllers are a thing that happens. And people are going to use them to get the maximum DPS, which would currently be 633.33. I'd like to effectively negate their use by lowering the fire rate. I actually really like the idea of 300 RPM, because that equates to exactly 5 shots per second, which is definitely doable by just a decent player with some practice, so modded controllers wouldn't really have an edge here. Also, I feel like 5 shots per second is about how many I'd expect from a tactical rifle. This would bring its DPS to 475, or 15 below the standard AR. Which again, I'm ok with, because I feel it sacrifices that small amount of DPS for its extended range. That's my opinion, anyway.

As a side note, the TAR in the OP still seems to have the old stats. And as a side side note, did you change the ammo stats to correlate with new damage? By my count, it would be Clip Size: 20 and Max Ammo: 100.

Honestly, I still feel like the TAR is doing a little too much damage. Let's not forget that right now, unfortunately, modded controllers are a thing that happens. And people are going to use them to get the maximum DPS, which would currently be 633.33. I'd like to effectively negate their use by lowering the fire rate. I actually really like the idea of 300 RPM, because that equates to exactly 5 shots per second, which is definitely doable by just a decent player with some practice, so modded controllers wouldn't really have an edge here. Also, I feel like 5 shots per second is about how many I'd expect from a tactical rifle. This would bring its DPS to 475, or 15 below the standard AR. Which again, I'm ok with, because I feel it sacrifices that small amount of DPS for its extended range. That's my opinion, anyway.

As a side note, the TAR in the OP still seems to have the old stats. And as a side side note, did you change the ammo stats to correlate with new damage? By my count, it would be Clip Size: 20 and Max Ammo: 100.

OMG, why do you want to change the TAR!?

No.

Just no.

Leave it alone!

TAR is meant to be a variant that mimics the Scrambler Rifle. The range on a blaster is greater than the range on the actual thing it's trying to mimic. Something I have to go back and address in my proposal actually. The TAR is not balanced if you have unbalanced variants of the same weapon.

That's perfect AR scrub logic. You practically just admitted the AR was OP. Every other weapon (except AV) gets huge nerfs and ya'll laugh, but when people start saying the AR needs a nerf, and are intelligent about it, you're all up in arms because there are too many of you. All the niche weapon users had to adapt and you will have to as well, unless, of course, you beg for a respec. HTFU, scrub.

Yea so it looks like some people just saw the posts about suggested TAR stats and jumped on the opportunity to defend their weapon of choice. To those people, please read the rest of the thread before suddenly spouting unwarranted concerns.

I read the rest of the thread and there is nothing I like about the suggested TAR stats.

I read the rest of the thread and there is nothing I like about the suggested TAR stats.