|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
32
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 04:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
You've earned my +1 sir. My ideas for balancing ARs were a lot less involved than this; basically just increasing recoil and reducing range. But I actually really appreciate your approach because I think it really does drive that jack of all trades role home. One thing I didn't see you mention that I think also needs to be done is making the recoil actually work properly. Because right now, any recoil accumulated from continuous fire can instantly be removed and reset simply by letting go of the trigger for an instant. This makes no sense from either a mechanical or thematic perspective.
The only thing about your work that I really specifically didn't agree with was your comparison to real world assault rifles. This is really something that needs to be said more clearly anyway, so to go off on a minor tangent: this game has nothing to do with the real world. People frequently try to reference real world guns to make cases for their ideas, things like "IRL ARs and even miniguns can fire accurately up to or past 100 meters easy!" But again, this means literally nothing. Because Dust doesn't take place in modern day earth, it takes place in a future sci-fi far away galaxy setting. The technology used here in no way follows the norms and conventions of our technology, for better or worse.
And think about this, there is no 'biotic' HP, just shields and armor. This implies that when even a single bullet penetrates your suit, it kills you immediately with ease. Which means these guns are all actually incredibly lethal, which in turn means that these dropsuits must also be really really good at keeping people alive against such powerful munition. So while I have no doubt that your assault rifle can fire a bullet at least 100 meters, it simply isn't able to damage a target in a high-tech Iron Man suit.
Ok, sorry to get a little ranty there, but I think it needed to be said. Anywho, overall great work here OP. And I look forward to seeing more balancing ideas for other weapons in the future. |
Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
36
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 04:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Quick thing, I'd recommend adding just the new weapon stats to the OP. That way they can be quickly and easily referenced, without needing to look through your longer document. |
Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
38
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 17:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:No.
Just did the DPS math on them, and 490 DPS with the same accuracy as now is the definition of OP.
It shouldn't be this accurate even with the current DPS, and this new stats is 65 DPS faster at killing.
Bump recoil and nerf accuracy moderately and keep damage stats.
If it is necessary, reduce clip size.
Done.
His proposed stats nerfed accuracy, recoil, clip size, reload time, and range. So.... |
Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
38
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 21:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:It says NOTHING about range. Or Recoil. The Change to reload is Negligible, a fourth a second And, all it does is make this new clip size is STILL a negligible difference considering that the AR now kills 15 percent faster! It wont NEED the clip size with the TTK! It still can Kill even the biggest brick a heavy can be with ONE clip. This, isn't what is needed. The AR needs a Clip size drop, a accuracy nerf, and a range change, nothing more. This is an overly complicated proposal, compared to the one we have known NEEDED to be put in for a long time!
Uh, maybe go read it again...?
Although that does bring up a point Syn; some of your stats in the OP need their ranges added. And I'd suggest maybe also putting in a sentence or two about making sure the AR's recoil isn't immediately reset by not firing for an instant. |
Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
38
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 22:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
Honestly, I still feel like the TAR is doing a little too much damage. Let's not forget that right now, unfortunately, modded controllers are a thing that happens. And people are going to use them to get the maximum DPS, which would currently be 633.33. I'd like to effectively negate their use by lowering the fire rate. I actually really like the idea of 300 RPM, because that equates to exactly 5 shots per second, which is definitely doable by just a decent player with some practice, so modded controllers wouldn't really have an edge here. Also, I feel like 5 shots per second is about how many I'd expect from a tactical rifle. This would bring its DPS to 475, or 15 below the standard AR. Which again, I'm ok with, because I feel it sacrifices that small amount of DPS for its extended range. That's my opinion, anyway.
As a side note, the TAR in the OP still seems to have the old stats. And as a side side note, did you change the ammo stats to correlate with new damage? By my count, it would be Clip Size: 20 and Max Ammo: 100. |
Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
39
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 01:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Yea so it looks like some people just saw the posts about suggested TAR stats and jumped on the opportunity to defend their weapon of choice. To those people, please read the rest of the thread before suddenly spouting unwarranted concerns. |
Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
39
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 01:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Keri Starlight wrote:I read the rest of the thread and there is nothing I like about the suggested TAR stats.
Alrighty. So what were your specific issues with it? |
Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
39
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 02:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
PADDEHATPIGEN wrote:The MILLITIA AR is way OP, but i think ALL millitia weapons are. The EXILE AR is a bit to powerfull to.
The gek-38 AR works ok, but the EXILE and MILLITIA are better.
The tactical AR's got nerfed so bad, and there was only a prob with the ROF, but the nerf squad did not stop there, now its almost useless to, i never use it anymore.
The breach AR's OMG they suck, i -never use them anymore, they are utterly USELESS.
The burst AR's are even worse, i never use them anymore, they also have become utterly USELESS.
The only AR that Works as it is supose to is the DUVOLLE AR.
Most of the AR's sucks and are utterly USELESS.
STOP nerfing the AR's, and fix the broken ones insted.
I can se from the things many of you whrite that you DONT use AR's or only tried the millitia AR, becourse its pure lies and false statements they come up with.
I am lvl 5 light weapon, lvl 5 AR, lvl 5 pro, on my main here, im also lvl 5 sniper, lvl 5 swarms, and lvl 5 SMG i do know what im talking about. . My alt GHOST 2630 is lvl 5 laser and SCR and all i can say is AR's are NOT OP. Millitia weapons and BPO weapons are OP...
That was a long, vivid account. In which you said absolutely nothing that relates to the point of this thread. Incidentally, you may or may not find this to be an interesting read.
|
Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
40
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 00:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Anywho Syn, got the burst stats coming up soon? |
Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
40
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 00:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
No worries. Also, the breach variant really needs a new name, we should work on that. How about....the 'Siege' variant? |
|
Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
41
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 04:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
Keri Starlight wrote:I think the TAR is much better as it is and it doesn't feel unbalanced at all. I don't think it needs more damage output and sure I don't think it needs a ROF reduction and this extends to all the other proposed stats. There is not a real reason why these basic mechanics should be changed...
About the range, which is a slightly different point, it should not be reduced. Instead, the scrambler's optimal range should be increased by 10 meters (more or less).
Ok, but why do you think those things? What's your reasoning? And I don't the TAR is OP, but I'd definitely say it's unbalanced in the other direction, and I think these stats actually make it a little bit better at it's role. And remember, it's a blaster weapon. They always have the smallest ranges for weapon of a certain class. So even the tactical variant of a plasma weapon shouldn't shoot that far. If you want more range, grab the Breach AR or maybe one of the Rail Rifles. You sacrifice the raw damage output for range and accuracy. |
Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
41
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 08:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
Torneido Achura wrote:The thing is they donGÇÖt need to nerf, they just need to get the prices right.. for example if you get to 250% the price the GEK has now, do any of you think the weapon would be so indiscriminately used as right now? The answer is no, and AR users would need to start thinking more about fitting and start using more the other AR variants, just because the weapon itGÇÖs so good overall it should reflect in its cost, the same goes for any other weapon in its assault form and in all tiers; kind of how it is in the AScR vs ScR pricing situation.
That aside I think that by numbers and some other features the assault variants (in almost any weapon it has it) are really well balanced with each other, but not with all the other versions available in the market.
If we are gonna be handed crappy or niche weapons they should cost less, and OHK and assault and really good weapons should cost a lot more
Ok so the main problem with this method of balancing is that it isn't actually that hard to get enough cash to consistently run the suits you want (at least up to advanced gear). This would really only apply to someone's 1st-2nd week of playing. After that, they figure out how to make money, and I promise you will have no issue running their AR. Also, having weapons that are flat out better than some other weapons of the same tier is clearly not the idea in mind with Dust.
If you hadn't noticed, CCP is attempting to make sure that every weapon fills a certain niche or role, and excels at that, while falling short in less beneficial situations for that weapon. i.e. A sniper rifle is deadly at long range, but terrible at CQC, while a shotgun does the exact opposite. So whether the AR's role leans more towards close ranged high DPS damage monster, or more jack-of-all-trades (possibly even differing just between variants), it should never stray too far outside that specific role. |
Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
42
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 22:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:The idea behind balancing is to give all weapons a relatively even amount of usability and functionality. It is not meant to make all weapons the same. At range a sniper rifle or SCR are by far superior to an AR (other than a TAC which is on par with the SCR). My point is that if you want to balance something, looking at the role it plays is key. You don't use an AR to mow down a whole squad of mercs as they are approaching an objective you use an HMG. If you must use an AR try to pull mercs out of the group. The same is true of the SCR and neither one does it better, they are very close in damage and have Mid range as their engagement range.
I don't feel that the AR is unbalanced one bit. Currently 5-10 shots from any weapon that any merc uses against me seem to take me down from around 500 hp to 0 hp, it doesn't matter which one it is. I know that there are probably other factors such as combined dps from multiple guns or splash from MDs and grenades but I don't think it is reasonable to say that an AR needs to be balanced at this time. If that were the case we would all be asking for more damage and larger clips (which I honestly would not say no to).
If you want more balance within the weapon classes you may just be waiting for the Combat and Rail rifles. I don't know what to expect out of the new weapons but I believe that it will be longer range than the AR and SCR while doing more damage and be a tactical type of gun. There is really no need to worry about AR balance until these are brought to the table, and I am sure we will revisit this topic once they are here, but I don't really see the point in balancing a weaker (than SCR, HMG, MD) weapon unless it is to ask for a Buff.
Edit: I just looked back at another thread and realized ARs are the only weapon with a Sharpshooter skill, used to reduce dispersion. The HMG and SCR as well as the SMG should all have this skill as they are Automatic Weapons, this is the answer, dispersion reduction by skill level.
I'm....not really sure what your point was here. The problem you're discussing in your second paragraph just sounds like aim assist, which definitely does need to be pulled back quite a bit, but that's an entirely different issue.
Also, a serious question, did you actually read the original proposal and the rest of the thread before commenting? And that's not supposed to be any sort of attack, I'm seriously wondering. Because it really doesn't look like you did, considering the other two racial rifles have already been mentioned, and that this whole idea takes them into account.
Oh, and I'm sorry, but did you seriously just suggest that the AR is weaker than the HMG? |
Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
42
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 04:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
Synbot wrote:I would like to mention that I will terminate this character. Mainly because of the poor choices I made when using skill points. Sadly I see no respec in the horizon, so this is the only way I must go about doing things. Not only that but I like to start fresh and new, this character feels junky. This main fully specced into ARs, and I feel that it's not challenging enough. It's to 'easy-mode' actually. And I want more of a challenge.
My main will now be Archbot.
You can't just start speccing into what you want now? |
|
|
|