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ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1685
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Posted - 2013.09.23 04:39:00 -
[31] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:I would try to get my WP by killing stuff, but people don't take kindly to logis getting kills on here. Now it seems like they don't want use to use equipment either. Maybe I should go sit on the redline every battle. that is the best place for you. clearly OP people need not do anything. |
Khal V'Rani
Nephilim Initiative
314
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Posted - 2013.09.23 04:56:00 -
[32] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:I would try to get my WP by killing stuff, but people don't take kindly to logis getting kills on here. Now it seems like they don't want use to use equipment either. Maybe I should go sit on the redline every battle. Lol Start sniping just to p*** people off.
Or carry an injector and when someone gets dropped run over to them but don't stick 'em... Or run around with a repair tool out next to someone low on hp but never use it... ^ you gotta make sure they see you looking at them with it though.
A logi in my corp went 22/18 with 3,1xx wps by him/her self tonight. As a logi. Others may not like it but some people are damned effective doing it.
We praise you for killing stuff as a logi over here... |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
629
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Posted - 2013.09.23 07:25:00 -
[33] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:I would try to get my WP by killing stuff, but people don't take kindly to logis getting kills on here. Now it seems like they don't want use to use equipment either. Maybe I should go sit on the redline every battle.
Nothing wrong with logis my only problem is when 1 character can have over 20 uplinks deployed on the feild by himself, then imagine 5 people doing that. You end upwith a really crappy game of whack-a-mole.
However I believe uplinks should be more of scout tech than logi tech, we should rely on vehicular transport the majority of the time! |
Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
40
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Posted - 2013.09.23 07:34:00 -
[34] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:One other thing, I also should mention I am not talking about the stupid farming behavior when people spam nanohives around a supply depot. That's selfish and does nothing to advance the teams objective. Please take the scenario listed in the context of someone who is placing the equipment in locations that are at least somewhat useful. I would like this to be addressed by a dev as well. This and reviving those in the firing line. I suggest zero WP for nanohives within 10 metres of a supply depot, and zero WP for revives that result in a death within five seconds. To counterbalance the latter, give extra WP for using advanced/proto needles. Basically incentivize logis to help their team rather than troll them. |
Jerry Jemmott
Carbon 7 CRONOS.
15
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Posted - 2013.09.23 09:53:00 -
[35] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:One other thing, I also should mention I am not talking about the stupid farming behavior when people spam nanohives around a supply depot. That's selfish and does nothing to advance the teams objective. Please take the scenario listed in the context of someone who is placing the equipment in locations that are at least somewhat useful. I would like this to be addressed by a dev as well. This and reviving those in the firing line. I suggest zero WP for nanohives within 10 metres of a supply depot, and zero WP for revives that result in a death within five seconds. To counterbalance the latter, give extra WP for using advanced/proto needles. Basically incentivize logis to help their team rather than troll them.
Sure, but everytime our revive is successfull the amount of money you haven't lost will be transfered from your wallet to the logi's who saved your sorry ass and yeah let's make money transfer for each amount of armor we repair ... Stop being jerks toward logis, when I think that this thread is just the slightly less mentally challenged child of a previous thread made just because a guy cannot stand to have a logi on top of the scoreboard with a negative ratio ... cunts, you want pew pew and no team work , go play another FPS. |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy
125
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Posted - 2013.09.23 12:12:00 -
[36] - Quote
We are getting off topic and a bit snippy as well. Lets keep this civil and see if we can get CCP Logibro in here to clarify. |
Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
43
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Posted - 2013.09.23 12:43:00 -
[37] - Quote
Jerry Jemmott wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:One other thing, I also should mention I am not talking about the stupid farming behavior when people spam nanohives around a supply depot. That's selfish and does nothing to advance the teams objective. Please take the scenario listed in the context of someone who is placing the equipment in locations that are at least somewhat useful. I would like this to be addressed by a dev as well. This and reviving those in the firing line. I suggest zero WP for nanohives within 10 metres of a supply depot, and zero WP for revives that result in a death within five seconds. To counterbalance the latter, give extra WP for using advanced/proto needles. Basically incentivize logis to help their team rather than troll them. Sure, but everytime our revive is successfull the amount of money you haven't lost will be transfered from your wallet to the logi's who saved your sorry ass and yeah let's make money transfer for each amount of armor we repair ... Stop being jerks toward logis, when I think that this thread is just the slightly less mentally challenged child of a previous thread made just because a guy cannot stand to have a logi on top of the scoreboard with a negative ratio ... cunts, you want pew pew and no team work , go play another FPS. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FONN-0uoTHI |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
205
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Posted - 2013.09.23 12:59:00 -
[38] - Quote
How could they apply a change to equipment that makes it pop after you change suits at a supply depot, but doesn't pop if you die and change your fit? I think most people agree that if a logi deploys equipment and dies, that equipment should still be there after said logi respawns with different equipment.
If the problem is that players (not just logis) can deploy equipment and keep changing suits so that all that deployed equipment is active for free, then nerf supply depots so that they only replenish ammunition (acting like a never depleting ammo-only nanohive). Of course, this means that other players wouldn't be able to switch suits to adapt to the combat situation, so no more swapping to AV/swarms if you see a tank/dropship coming or whatever.
Another option is to remove supply depots except those that are in the redlines (so no depots on ambush, sorry guys). It's really hard and ineffective to spam equipment if you have to run/drive/fly back and forth from the frontline and the redline just to swap your suit.
A third option is to make it so that suit changes cost you ISK, but not a death. So yes, you can continue to spam your equipment so long as you are willing to pay this ISK price per suit each time you change it. |
M3DIC 2U
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
104
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Posted - 2013.09.23 13:37:00 -
[39] - Quote
At least it isn't spammed with militia nanohives. That sucked in beta. Now, GET OFF MY LAWN YA DAMN KIDS!!
and first response is best ever. |
S Park Finner
DUST University Ivy League
296
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 14:05:00 -
[40] - Quote
As it turns out, WP for equipment destruction has been confirmed by CCP Wolfman.
That being the case, the revenge for the OP is that a few flux grenades and a Rambo attack on a location will net him a pile of SP while denying the equipment spammer of all those "unjustified" WP.
For those that just want another source of WP, the folks that drop all that stuff will just boost your SP. Win/WIn! |
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Vesago Ghostcore
Rejected Clones
18
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Posted - 2013.09.23 14:12:00 -
[41] - Quote
I don't know if it would help, but what if changing suits at a supply depot cost you the suit. That way if someone wants to do this, they have to pay for it. |
Kam Elto
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
74
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Posted - 2013.09.23 14:25:00 -
[42] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Its technically an exploit, more of a design overlook, 1 person should not be able to deploy so much equipment on the field simultaneously.
Equipment is designed to help complete an objective, its not to be spammed, we need more equipment to give us more variety and bonuses, so people consider more than just nanohives. I respectfully disagree. If CCP determines that it is an exploit, I will live with that decision, but given this mechanic has been in place for well over a year, this would mark a shift in the dev's approach. I watch with interest to see CCP's response. Sorry I meant to say not an exploit! Its an oversight I feel CCP should fix! There is no problem with restocking equipment, I personally feel you shouldn't have to switch suits to do so. But being to be able to "over" spam uplinks, hives is potentially a problem!! There is no "'over' spam" of equipment because, like others have said, you can only deploy as many as the description says you can. At max you can deploy 3 at a time, and that is with Proto. Yes, you can deploy as many as 6, but this is more strategy than an "exploit". For example: I was in a Domination match on Line Harvest, and I dropped 3 uplinks on the pipes. A little later, my team took the objective thanks to a couple of Orbitals and some good players. Later we did lose, but we would have never taken it without people spawning so close to the objective. "more strategy than an exploit"? no, it's not. it's spam. strategy would involve placing the uplinks in strategic locations and strategically defending them. so if they limit uplinks it would bring more strategy to the game. |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
571
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 14:25:00 -
[43] - Quote
god forbid that logis are able to do logistics and support his team?
consider the following: -how long does it take for a logi to run to an objective and back a depot to setup his resupply and uplinks? -how long does it take to kill the logi and then all the uplinks? |
Everything Dies
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
110
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 16:51:00 -
[44] - Quote
Simple solution: Max number of items per equipment type. This way, it doesn't matter what type of nanohive you're dropping--you're still limited to two/three at a time. Just as you could also drop three of four REs or PMs. Those are all fine; the problem is when people are exploiting the numerical limits of each equipment type by tossing out different versions of each. Hence, you end up with the forge gunners sniping from a tower, surrounded by near-infinite ammo/armor repair.
As for switching suits...I have two builds that carry REs; one is utilized with an AR for CQC, the other is utilized with an SR if I'm able to cover the node from distance. It's great that I can lay some REs with one suit and then detonate them with the other, but I shouldn't be able to go out and throw some more REs of a different type. |
Lv2spd2
Slow And Old
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 17:17:00 -
[45] - Quote
We could stop people crying about the injector recurrections by simple eliminating all tracking of Kill Death Ratio. No KDR to damage, no more crying over people trying to save you. |
Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
1931
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 17:24:00 -
[46] - Quote
I don't think you need to worry about anything changing in 1.5. Nothing is going to change, catastrophe avoided.
Now lets all dine of the crumbs from the empty bag of Doritos that is 1.5. |
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CCP Logibro
C C P C C P Alliance
2130
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 17:30:00 -
[47] - Quote
Technically, this is functionally working as intended. However, this (and supply depot interaction in general) is something we would like to change (the exact details of what we will change it to are still being decided on). CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics
@CCP_Logibro |
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GTA V FTW
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
107
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 18:03:00 -
[48] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Technically, this is functionally working as intended. However, this (and supply depot interaction in general) is something we would like to change (the exact details of what we will change it to are still being decided on).
So there you have it boys and girls.
Keep explo...........em, em, opps I mean keep using this working as intended game mechanic to your advantage. |
Gallente Mercenary 08551380
The Vanguardians
27
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 18:06:00 -
[49] - Quote
I dont even need to hop supply depots
with 4 equipment slots I can put down 8 links in one |
Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis Alpha Wolf Pack
474
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 18:33:00 -
[50] - Quote
GTA V FTW wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:Technically, this is functionally working as intended. However, this (and supply depot interaction in general) is something we would like to change (the exact details of what we will change it to are still being decided on). So there you have it boys and girls. Keep explo...........em, em, opps I mean keep using this working as intended game mechanic to your advantage. What I can't understand about posters on the forum is they'd rather come here and QQ over a game mechanic being used by the other team rather than implement that strategy themselves. IF THE OTHER TEAM IS DOING IT, SO CAN YOU!
Prime example here: if some enemy logi is deploying 6x uplinks (2 of 3 different models), then have your logi do the same! If your team didn't think about doing that, tough! Learn for next time. Same goes for spamming nanohives. FFS, people spam grenades standing in hive or spam their MD.
If you're tired of all the uplink spam, bring flux grenades and destroy them! The solution isn't always to redesign something in the game that's working. Use the tools you have available.
Dust is a tactical squad-based shooter. It's going to take more than just charging into battle guns-a-blazing to have an impact. Sometimes, it means retreating, gaining an upper hand, using superior tactics, assessing your situation and changing your tactics to suit the battlefield. The Rail and Combat rifles are going to introduce hard-hitting fully automatic damage at ranges we're not really seeing today. Will everyone come QQ about being shot from a long distance when their AR won't shoot that far, or will they rightfully adapt their tactics and choose their engagements?
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SirManBoy
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
272
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Posted - 2013.09.23 20:32:00 -
[51] - Quote
Everything Dies wrote:Simple solution: Max number of items per equipment type. This way, it doesn't matter what type of nanohive you're dropping--you're still limited to two/three at a time. Just as you could also drop three of four REs or PMs. Those are all fine; the problem is when people are exploiting the numerical limits of each equipment type by tossing out different versions of each. Hence, you end up with the forge gunners sniping from a tower, surrounded by near-infinite ammo/armor repair.
As for switching suits...I have two builds that carry REs; one is utilized with an AR for CQC, the other is utilized with an SR if I'm able to cover the node from distance. It's great that I can lay some REs with one suit and then detonate them with the other, but I shouldn't be able to go out and throw some more REs of a different type.
That's not a solution, that's a nerf, bud. Keep your myopic opinions to yourself and let the rest of us enjoy the sandbox how we see fit. Logistics is as much about quantity as it is quality and the gameplay should continue to reflect this reality. |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy
132
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 22:55:00 -
[52] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Technically, this is functionally working as intended. However, this (and supply depot interaction in general) is something we would like to change (the exact details of what we will change it to are still being decided on).
Glad we could put that to rest once and for all. Perhaps now we can direct our attention to suggestions from the community (logis especially but all reasoned opinions are welcome) on how they would like to see the supply depot interaction to work, and a corollary, how could uplinks be changed (not nerfed) to maybe reduce mindless spam - hate to admit it but we all know it can happen - but still keep the strategic elements and WP gain viable for dedicated logistics players.
It does work as intended for now, but if the quoted post and community sentiment are any indication , something is going to be changed. If I can get some good suggestions/discussion here I can eventually move it to a dedicated and more focused thread in the feedback section. As I said in a related thread a few weeks ago, if a change is coming, I'd rather be driving that bus instead of being thrown under it.
Suggestions I've heard in the past that make sense include jammers or a minimum radius between uplinks. I've also considered a potential skill that modestly limits the number of uplinks one person can drop as a way you could potentially limit mindless spam by other classes but keep the mechanic more or less unchanged for the dedicated logi.
Discuss. |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
1232
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 23:02:00 -
[53] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:Technically, this is functionally working as intended. However, this (and supply depot interaction in general) is something we would like to change (the exact details of what we will change it to are still being decided on). Glad we could put that to rest once and for all. Perhaps now we can direct our attention to suggestions from the community (logis especially but all reasoned opinions are welcome) on how they would like to see the supply depot interaction to work, and a corollary, how could uplinks be changed (not nerfed) to maybe reduce mindless spam - hate to admit it but we all know it can happen - but still keep the strategic elements and WP gain viable for dedicated logistics players. It does work as intended for now, but if the quoted post and community sentiment are any indication , something is going to be changed. If I can get some good suggestions/discussion here I can eventually move it to a dedicated and more focused thread in the feedback section. As I said in a related thread a few weeks ago, if a change is coming, I'd rather be driving that bus instead of being thrown under it. Suggestions I've heard in the past that make sense include jammers or a minimum radius between uplinks. I've also considered a potential skill that modestly limits the number of uplinks one person can drop as a way you could potentially limit mindless spam by other classes but keep the mechanic more or less unchanged for the dedicated logi. Discuss. Any "Change" to reduce uplink spam would, by definition, be a nerf. Don't even try to sugar coat that...
... that said, I support such a thing. Uplink spam is boring lol; but honestly it is uber low priority considering other issues in the game. |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy
133
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 23:54:00 -
[54] - Quote
Rogatien Merc wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:Technically, this is functionally working as intended. However, this (and supply depot interaction in general) is something we would like to change (the exact details of what we will change it to are still being decided on). Glad we could put that to rest once and for all. Perhaps now we can direct our attention to suggestions from the community (logis especially but all reasoned opinions are welcome) on how they would like to see the supply depot interaction to work, and a corollary, how could uplinks be changed (not nerfed) to maybe reduce mindless spam - hate to admit it but we all know it can happen - but still keep the strategic elements and WP gain viable for dedicated logistics players. It does work as intended for now, but if the quoted post and community sentiment are any indication , something is going to be changed. If I can get some good suggestions/discussion here I can eventually move it to a dedicated and more focused thread in the feedback section. As I said in a related thread a few weeks ago, if a change is coming, I'd rather be driving that bus instead of being thrown under it. Suggestions I've heard in the past that make sense include jammers or a minimum radius between uplinks. I've also considered a potential skill that modestly limits the number of uplinks one person can drop as a way you could potentially limit mindless spam by other classes but keep the mechanic more or less unchanged for the dedicated logi. Discuss. Any "Change" to reduce uplink spam would, by definition, be a nerf. Don't even try to sugar coat that... ... that said, I support such a thing. Uplink spam is boring lol; but honestly it is uber low priority considering other issues in the game.
I came around to the idea that reducing spam is not the worst thing in the world just a few days ago during a FW match with my corp. It was in that new city map where the supply depot is underground (still get lost sometimes, lol). Some idiot or idiots were running around flinging uplinks all over the damn place with no rhyme or reason. There were 2(!!) in the little room with the supply depot, one in the middle of the damn street, one in the center of an exposed stairwell, etc. Most of them were not exactly proto quality. It got to the point where I simply gave up trying to put down my higher quality uplinks in locations they might actually do some good because it was impossible to keep track or even read the map to identify areas of need like usual.
More importantly though, I'm less concerned about a nerf strictly to uplinks per se than I am about a nerf to our entire class. I love the idea of something like deployable equipment jammers - drop it and any uplink or nanohive deployed within its radius pops. Does it nerf uplinks? Kinda. Does it give logis a new toy to play with and add another layer of strategy to the game ? Absolutely. I also made a proposal for an "uplink proficiency" skill in an earlier thread, but I'll save that for another post.
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GTA V FTW
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
112
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Posted - 2013.09.24 00:39:00 -
[55] - Quote
Hey BTW incoming nerf to spamming do to the fact that this spamming of equipment is reason for frame rate issues. True story. |
SirManBoy
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
274
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Posted - 2013.09.24 01:24:00 -
[56] - Quote
As a logi who absolutely adores how the current system works, the only compromise I would be willing to make is some sort of increased map visibility for enemy troops whenever friendly equipment is too densely situated. Call it equipment noise caused by interference or something. That way people can still spam, but the enemy knows exactly where the spam pile is on their map. Combine that with WP for destroying equipment and you have a massive win-win for virtually everyone, especially scouts who would probably tend to specialize in this sort of thing (equipment search & destroy). |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
1302
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Posted - 2013.09.24 01:45:00 -
[57] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Technically, this is functionally working as intended. However, this (and supply depot interaction in general) is something we would like to change (the exact details of what we will change it to are still being decided on).
I think shields should be down when you switch to a different suit. Because they'd need to charge up.
Solves the switching suits for health in a fire fight issue. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
3219
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 01:47:00 -
[58] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Technically, this is functionally working as intended. However, this (and supply depot interaction in general) is something we would like to change (the exact details of what we will change it to are still being decided on). Change in what (general) way?
To stop this from happening, or to just let supply depots flat out restock equipment when you get near them? I feel like the latter option is better. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
1302
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Posted - 2013.09.24 01:47:00 -
[59] - Quote
SirManBoy wrote:As a logi who absolutely adores how the current system works, the only compromise I would be willing to make is some sort of increased map visibility for enemy troops whenever friendly equipment is too densely situated. Call it equipment noise caused by interference or something. That way people can still spam, but the enemy knows exactly where the spam pile is on their map. Combine that with WP for destroying equipment and you have a massive win-win for virtually everyone, especially scouts who would probably tend to specialize in this sort of thing (equipment search & destroy).
This is an excellent idea. Achieves balance and provides an additional WP gain. No nerf necessary |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy
140
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Posted - 2013.09.24 03:23:00 -
[60] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:SirManBoy wrote:As a logi who absolutely adores how the current system works, the only compromise I would be willing to make is some sort of increased map visibility for enemy troops whenever friendly equipment is too densely situated. Call it equipment noise caused by interference or something. That way people can still spam, but the enemy knows exactly where the spam pile is on their map. Combine that with WP for destroying equipment and you have a massive win-win for virtually everyone, especially scouts who would probably tend to specialize in this sort of thing (equipment search & destroy). This is an excellent idea. Achieves balance and provides an additional WP gain. No nerf necessary
Trust me, I've made a very good living off of uplinks and am not pushing for a nerf, I just want to be ahead of the curve and soften the hammer's blow if it is indeed coming. If WP for destroying equipment stops the whining about uplinks, all the better. More WP and SP to go around is always better than less. I still like the idea of jammers though!
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